My Challenge To All Non-Lds Readers

[Bernard Gui]

There is one thing the LDS Church does that I believe is unique...

the once-a-month fast offering. Correct me if I'm wrong.

IMHO it is one LDS practice that all people can embrace. It is

worthy of emulation.

My challenge to all non-LDS participants:

Regardless of your opinion about the LDS Church,

start a once-a-month fast offering program in your church

or whatever organization or club you belong to.

The Rules:

All members fast for 2 meals and give the money they save

to the organization. It is to be used exclusively to help those who

need help. No money is to be skimmed for any reason. If you are

able, give several times the value of the meals.

Who will take my challenge?

Bernard

[Rob Bowman]

Bernard,

While of course I have no objection to people fasting and giving money to the poor, I do have some reservations about a public, institutionalized religious system of fasting and charity:

Beware of practicing your righteousness before other people in order to be seen by them, for then you will have no reward from your Father who is in heaven. 2 "Thus, when you give to the needy, sound no trumpet before you, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may be praised by others. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward. 3 But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, 4 so that your giving may be in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will reward you.... 16 "And when you fast, do not look gloomy like the hypocrites, for they disfigure their faces that their fasting may be seen by others. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward. 17 But when you fast, anoint your head and wash your face, 18 that your fasting may not be seen by others but by your Father who is in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will reward you. (Matt. 6:1-4, 16-18 ESV)

[Storm Rider]

Bernard,

While of course I have no objection to people fasting and giving money to the poor, I do have some reservations about a public, institutionalized religious system of fasting and charity:

Beware of practicing your righteousness before other people in order to be seen by them, for then you will have no reward from your Father who is in heaven. 2 "Thus, when you give to the needy, sound no trumpet before you, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may be praised by others. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward. 3 But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, 4 so that your giving may be in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will reward you.... 16 "And when you fast, do not look gloomy like the hypocrites, for they disfigure their faces that their fasting may be seen by others. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward. 17 But when you fast, anoint your head and wash your face, 18 that your fasting may not be seen by others but by your Father who is in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will reward you. (Matt. 6:1-4, 16-18 ESV)

The verse you use above is an interesting one when discussing a fast day. It is important to understand it: particularly note the very first words, "Beware of practicing your righteousness before other people in order to be seen by them," If you are walking around, dressed in sackcloth and ashes so that all know you are fasting or your countenance is such that everyone knows something is wrong, then this verse applies. The intent is that your purpose must be held personal; it is between you and God. If a LDS were to be in a group or a crowd while fasting, not a single person would know by outward appearances that (s)he were fasting.

When there is a Fast Sunday at Church, not a single person in attendance can tell who is fasting and who is not. Better yet, not a single person can recognize who is giving a fast offering and who is not. This differs considerable from those churches that pass a plate so that all can see who is dropping in money and who is not.

LDS do things in private and that is why your "concern" is as tinkling brass. Worse, you know better and yet you provide the lame excuse above. Get thee behind me.

Rob, that is just disappointing. I think much better of you and I believe you to be a better man and a better Christian than that.

[ldsfaqs]

haa haa..... Since when when it concerns us?

Further, I would like to add..... What's with all the SECRETS...?

I thought no one in Christ's Church was supposed to do OR say anything IN SECRET?

Well, that's what the anti's like Rob and others tell us. Double standards are the rule.

Edited December 1, 2011 by ldsfaqs

[elguanteloko]

I'm down.

[Freedom]

I suspect that there are many works that people of other faiths could challenge us on quite successfully.

[Senator]

There is one thing the LDS Church does that I believe is unique...

the once-a-month fast offering. Correct me if I'm wrong.

IMHO it is one LDS practice that all people can embrace. It is

worthy of emulation.

My challenge to all non-LDS participants:

Regardless of your opinion about the LDS Church,

start a once-a-month fast offering program in your church

or whatever organization or club you belong to.

The Rules:

All members fast for 2 meals and give the money they save

to the organization. It is to be used exclusively to help those who

need help. No money is to be skimmed for any reason. If you are

able, give several times the value of the meals.

Who will take my challenge?

Bernard

I'm generally apposed to the idea of introducing any spiritual application by way of a program.

Otherwise, it is a great idea to put into the hearts and minds of people.

[zerinus]

Bernard,

While of course I have no objection to people fasting and giving money to the poor, I do have some reservations about a public, institutionalized religious system of fasting and charity:

Beware of practicing your righteousness before other people in order to be seen by them, for then you will have no reward from your Father who is in heaven. 2 "Thus, when you give to the needy, sound no trumpet before you, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may be praised by others. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward. 3 But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, 4 so that your giving may be in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will reward you.... 16 "And when you fast, do not look gloomy like the hypocrites, for they disfigure their faces that their fasting may be seen by others. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward. 17 But when you fast, anoint your head and wash your face, 18 that your fasting may not be seen by others but by your Father who is in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will reward you. (Matt. 6:1-4, 16-18 ESV)

Do you think it is a good idea that people should fast at all, and donate the proceeds to the poor and the needy, or not? If not, why not? If yes, how do you think they should go about it?

[Saints Alive]

I could see something like this happening on a college campus. no food for 2 meals, donate the money you save to third world countries.

[Spammer]

The Eastern Orthodox fast every day during the forty days before Easter, the forty days before Christmas, and on every Wednesday and Friday during the year (except when one of the twelve Great Feasts falls on a Wednesday or Friday). During each fast, the Orthodox are expected not only to abstain from certain foods and also skip a meal (depending on a person's health and guidance from one's spiritual father) but also to increase almsgiving beyond what is normally expected of a Christian when not fasting.

How 'bout it? Are any LDS readers up to taking the Orthodox challenge?

[Senator]

The Eastern Orthodox fast every day during the forty days before Easter, the forty days before Christmas, and on every Wednesday and Friday during the year (except when one of the twelve Great Feasts falls on a Wednesday or Friday). During each fast, the Orthodox are expected not only to abstain from certain foods and also skip a meal (depending on a person's health and guidance from one's spiritual father) but also to increase almsgiving beyond what is normally expected of a Christian when not fasting.

How 'bout it? Are any LDS readers up to taking the Orthodox challenge?

Bring it on....

We can out righteous them any day!!!!!

[Saints Alive]

of course the orthodox christian definition of fasting differes a little from the LDS definition.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fasting#Eastern_Orthodoxy_and_Greek-Catholicism

it isn't generally all food for 40 days.

[KevinG]

Bring it on....

We can out righteous them any day!!!!!

This way leads to spiritual hobby horses - beware!

The Eastern Orthodox fast every day during the forty days before Easter, the forty days before Christmas, and on every Wednesday and Friday during the year (except when one of the twelve Great Feasts falls on a Wednesday or Friday). During each fast, the Orthodox are expected not only to abstain from certain foods and also skip a meal (depending on a person's health and guidance from one's spiritual father) but also to increase almsgiving beyond what is normally expected of a Christian when not fasting.

How 'bout it? Are any LDS readers up to taking the Orthodox challenge?

I've already given up wine, coffee, tobacco and excesses of meat for life. I suspect going with less meat and fats during those periods would be a very healthy way to show devotion and sacrifice. I will consider this!

[KevinG]

Bernard,

While of course I have no objection to people fasting and giving money to the poor, I do have some reservations about a public, institutionalized religious system of fasting and charity:

Beware of practicing your righteousness before other people in order to be seen by them, for then you will have no reward from your Father who is in heaven. 2 "Thus, when you give to the needy, sound no trumpet before you, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may be praised by others. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward. 3 But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, 4 so that your giving may be in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will reward you.... 16 "And when you fast, do not look gloomy like the hypocrites, for they disfigure their faces that their fasting may be seen by others. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward. 17 But when you fast, anoint your head and wash your face, 18 that your fasting may not be seen by others but by your Father who is in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will reward you. (Matt. 6:1-4, 16-18 ESV)

I'm amazed in your research of the LDS Church you have not found time to look into our fasting and fast offering practices.

http://lds.org/ensign/2010/03/the-law-of-the-fast?lang=eng&query=fasting+secret

The young men who collect this offering go to the homes of our members with a small blue envelope. The head of the household takes the envolope. The head of household takes a grey offering envelope out of the larger envelope and puts in any offering they can afford (or none *** they chose) and slips it into the blue envelope which the young men return to the Bishop. A clerk tallies the offerings and the amount is deposited in the bank to be distributed among the poor and needy by the Bishop and in the case of surplus the general authorities of the church.

Respectfully Rob - You spend too much time debating over the minutae of LDS beliefs and not enough time getting to know the Saints and what they believe and practice on a regular basis. You might be surprised how Biblical and Christ centered we are if you observed us in our natural environment.

[Storm Rider]

of course the orthodox christian definition of fasting differes a little from the LDS definition.

http://en.wikipedia....eek-Catholicism

it isn't generally all food for 40 days.

Living in Abu Dhabi, Muslims can teach us all something about prayer, fasting, and helping the poor. They are an amazing people that I have come to love deeply and admire always.

[Scott Lloyd]

Bernard,

While of course I have no objection to people fasting and giving money to the poor, I do have some reservations about a public, institutionalized religious system of fasting and charity:

In other words, this would be an OK idea if it didn't bear the taint of Mormonism

Edited December 2, 2011 by Scott Lloyd

[Saints Alive]

In other words, this would be an OK idea if it didn't bear the taint of Mormonism

lol!!!! you said bear taint!!!!!

[Scott Lloyd]

Bernard,

While of course I have no objection to people fasting and giving money to the poor, I do have some reservations about a public, institutionalized religious system of fasting and charity:

Beware of practicing your righteousness before other people in order to be seen by them, for then you will have no reward from your Father who is in heaven. 2 "Thus, when you give to the needy, sound no trumpet before you, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may be praised by others. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward. 3 But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, 4 so that your giving may be in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will reward you.... 16 "And when you fast, do not look gloomy like the hypocrites, for they disfigure their faces that their fasting may be seen by others. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward. 17 But when you fast, anoint your head and wash your face, 18 that your fasting may not be seen by others but by your Father who is in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will reward you. (Matt. 6:1-4, 16-18 ESV)

I suppose that in some Protestant churches the practice of passing around a collection plate or basket during the worship service is still in force. I don't know whether Rob objects to this, but it strikes me as being more "public" than and just as institutionalized as quietly giving an envelope to the bishop after sacrament meeting or responding to the neighborhood visit of the Aaronic Priesthood youth.

For the record, I have no objection to either method of collecting funds for the poor.

[LeSellers]

I suppose that in some Protestant churches the practice of passing around a collection plate or basket during the worship service is still in force. ... it strikes me as being more "public" than and just as institutionalized as quietly giving an envelope to the bishop after sacrament meeting or responding to the neighborhood visit of the Aaronic Priesthood youth.

For the record, I have no objection to either method of collecting funds for the poor.

The collection plate is not for the poor. It's (typically) for the pastor or the church.

Lehi

[KevinG]

The collection plate is not for the poor. It's (typically) for the pastor or the church.

Lehi

If I recall correctly from my Methodist days we could fill out a slip guiding the funds towards the building, charitable causes, missionary work, etc. Kind of similar to our tithing/Fast Offering/Other categories.

I don't know how the Protestants handle this in general. But the collections are primarily for running the church as are our Tithes.

[Scott Lloyd]

I suppose that in some Protestant churches the practice of passing around a collection plate or basket during the worship service is still in force. I don't know whether Rob objects to this, but it strikes me as being more "public" than and just as institutionalized as quietly giving an envelope to the bishop after sacrament meeting or responding to the neighborhood visit of the Aaronic Priesthood youth.

For the record, I have no objection to either method of collecting funds for the poor.

I see that Storm Rider already picked up on this in the second post above.

[saemo]

it isn't generally all food for 40 days.

....abstinence, not suicide.

Edited December 1, 2011 by saemo

[saemo]

There is one thing the LDS Church does that I believe is unique...

the once-a-month fast offering. Correct me if I'm wrong.

IMHO it is one LDS practice that all people can embrace. It is

worthy of emulation.

My challenge to all non-LDS participants:

Regardless of your opinion about the LDS Church,

start a once-a-month fast offering program in your church

or whatever organization or club you belong to.

The Rules:

All members fast for 2 meals and give the money they save

to the organization. It is to be used exclusively to help those who

need help. No money is to be skimmed for any reason. If you are

able, give several times the value of the meals.

Who will take my challenge?

Bernard

I like this practice.

Fasting and almsgiving are the two wings of prayer....St. Augustine

[cinepro]

I suggested your challenge to a co-worker who is Seventh-day Adventist. He said they'll do it as soon as the LDS Church accepts his challenge to publish their basic financial information on the Church website.

Edited December 1, 2011 by cinepro

[bluebell]

I suggested your challenge to a co-worker who is Seventh-day Adventist. He said they'll do it as soon as the LDS Church accepts his challenge to publish their basic financial information on the Church website.

Your friend's pretty defensive.