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I Will Likely Have To Look For A Different To Church To Serve In.


Mudcat

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I am quite sad about the matter.

As many of you know, I am a member of a Southern Baptist congregation. We are congregationalists and therefore we vote on new pastors when a vacancy occurs. For the past 3 years we have been fortunate to have one of the best interim pastors I have ever met. He carries doctorates and is more ecumenical than many SB pastors.

He is an elderly fellow and though his mind is razor sharp, his health has been failing him since I have known him. I always thought well of him that he valued spending his time teaching us how we should better through Biblical application rather than spending time on what he might have felt was wrong with other religious views. Members of other Protestant faiths... Methodists, Presbyterians.. as well as Pentecostals were accepted into the church without a necessity for re-baptism, even though some chose to.

There have been lots of bumps in the road on finding and calling a new pastor. But this past Sunday the pastor search committee was able to present a pastor for a trial sermon. It's been in the works for a couple of months and he met with our interim pastors endorsement. A young fellow in his early 30's, precious wife and no children. They have tried for 8 years and are now seeking to adopt from Russia.

Despite the nervousness that a fellow must incur when preaching a "trial" sermon before a group of over 600 people who plan to vote on if you shall be called. He had a very eloquent delivery, seemed strong and well grounded in his beliefs. His topic was on the trustworthiness of the Bible. Reminded me somewhat of Adrian Rogers, which is a man I always respected and I surmise that he has adopted as a bit of a role model given his delivery.

I suppose I cringed a bit when I saw him toss out some pejoratives against atheism. I don't agree with atheists on their view, but it struck me that he was a fellow who liked to draw lines in the sand marking the us from the them. I disregarded it for the most part. But it was his closing that caught my ear the most. He said in a raised and rapid voice... "There a various groups throughout the world that seek to destroy the Bible.. Islam, atheism, Hinduism, Buddhism, Jehovah Witnesses, Mormonism..... But the Word of God does not change." then he proceeded with the altar call.

Bold mine, there it was, the 400lb gorilla just walked in the room. My family attends with me every other Sunday and this was their Sunday at the LDS church so I am thankful they missed the introductory sermon.... It past so fleetingly that most didn't even catch it. But my heart tells me that he is very fundamental and more of an "us" versus "them" sort of fellow, in this stage in his life, than anything else. He has certainly planted his flag.

I am a good judge of character and I see that it will be near certain that on any given Sunday this fellow is likely to launch into a diatribe against LDS that will be more than my family can bear. I have no plans on putting them through dealing with it.

There were a number of visitors and children in the audience who were ineligible to vote. Out of all who voted, it was 493 for and 1 against. I was not the dissenter, I did not turn in my ballot. Our ballots required no signature, but I left my ballot signed sitting on my music stand with no vote cast and intentionally left it there rather than turn it in.

Though the pastor starts in December, I plan to fulfill my obligations to my music minister for our upcoming Christmas production and have explained the scenario to my wife and have told her I am advising her to Christmas with her folks at the LDS services throughout the entire month.

I do plan on having a heart to heart with new pastor before I write the whole situation off. But I don't expect much, I think he knows a great deal about fundamental Southern Baptist theology, but I think his exposure to other theologies are what have been offered to him from a fundamentalist Baptist perspective rather than the "horses mouth" so to speak. IOW a biased view. For a fellow his age, to a church this large he will have to do a bit of growing and I expect he will. I just don't think it fair for my family in our particular situation to withstand his growing pains.

My expectation is that non-Baptist protestants and charismatics will have to accept the bridle of Baptist baptism to join and so forth. Catholics weren't mentioned in his sermon, but given his slant I don't imagine they are any more bulletproof than anyone else he did mention.

I suppose I would hope for more, but I have been under the guidance of the Holy Spirit on the matter and I trust him more than my own predilections. Nevertheless I feel, given the fact that this particular church was the one I was raised as a child in, there is some protocol or stand to be made before I depart it.

God is good and as he has done in the past, I feel he has once again placed my feet on the road to a journey to a better me, for the sake of myself and my family.

I dunno what will happen next but I am excited about it. Keep me and my family in your prayers.

Respectfully,

Mudcat

Edited by Mudcat
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I am quite sad about the matter.

As many of you know, I am a member of a Southern Baptist congregation. We are congregationalists and therefore we vote on new pastors when a vacancy occurs. For the past 3 years we have been fortunate to have one of the best interim pastors I have ever met. He carries doctorates and is more ecumenical than many SB pastors.

He is an elderly fellow and though his mind is razor sharp, his health has been failing him since I have known him. I always thought well of him that he valued spending his time teaching us how we should better through Biblical application rather than spending time on what he might have felt was wrong with other religious views. Members of other Protestant faiths... Methodists, Presbyterians.. as well as Pentecostals were accepted into the church without a necessity for re-baptism, even though some chose to.

There have been lots of bumps in the road on finding and calling a new pastor. But this past Sunday the pastor search committee was able to present a pastor for a trial sermon. It's been in the works for a couple of months and he met with our interim pastors endorsement. A young fellow in his early 30's, precious wife and no children. They have tried for 8 years and are now seeking to adopt from Russia.

Despite the nervousness that a fellow must incur when preaching a "trial" sermon before a group of over 600 people who plan to vote on if you shall be called. He had a very eloquent delivery, seemed strong and well grounded in his beliefs. His topic was on the trustworthiness of the Bible. Reminded me somewhat of Adrian Rogers, which is a man I always respected and I surmise that he has adopted as a bit of a role model given his delivery.

I suppose I cringed a bit when I saw him toss out some pejoratives against atheism. I don't agree with atheists on their view, but it struck me that he was a fellow who liked to draw lines in the sand marking the us from the them. I disregarded it for the most part. But it was his closing that caught my ear the most. He said in a raised and rapid voice... "There a various groups throughout the world that seek to destroy the Bible.. Islam, atheism, Hinduism, Buddhism, Jehovah Witnesses, Mormonism..... But the Word of God does not change." then he proceeded with the altar call.

Bold mine, there it was, the 400lb gorilla just walked in the room. My family attends with me every other Sunday and this was their Sunday at the LDS church so I am thankful they missed the introductory sermon.... It past so fleetingly that most didn't even catch it. But my heart tells me that he is very fundamental and more of an "us" versus "them" sort of fellow, in this stage in his life, than anything else. He has certainly planted his flag.

I am a good judge of character and I see that it will be near certain that on any given Sunday this fellow is likely to launch into a diatribe against LDS that will be more than my family can bear. I have no plans on putting them through dealing with it.

There were a number of visitors and children in the audience who were ineligible to vote. Out of all who voted, it was 493 for and 1 against. I was not the dissenter, I did not turn in my ballot. Our ballots required no signature, but I left my ballot signed sitting on my music stand with no vote cast and intentionally left it there rather than turn it in.

Though the pastor starts in December, I plan to fulfill my obligations to my music minister for our upcoming Christmas production and have explained the scenario to my wife and have told her I am advising her to Christmas with her folks at the LDS services throughout the entire month.

I do plan on having a heart to heart with new pastor before I write the whole situation off. But I don't expect much, I think he knows a great deal about fundamental Southern Baptist theology, but I think his exposure to other theologies are what have been offered to him from a fundamentalist Baptist perspective rather than the "horses mouth" so to speak. IOW a biased view. For a fellow his age, to a church this large he will have to do a bit of growing and I expect he will. I just don't think it fair for my family in our particular situation to withstand his growing pains.

My expectation is that non-Baptist protestants and charismatics will have to accept the bridle of Baptist baptism to join and so forth. Catholics weren't mentioned in his sermon, but given his slant I don't imagine they are any more bulletproof than anyone else he did mention.

I suppose I would hope for more, but I have been under the guidance of the Holy Spirit on the matter and I trust him more than my own predilections. Nevertheless I feel, given the fact that this particular church was the one I was raised as a child in, there is some protocol or stand to be made before I depart it.

God is good and as he has done in the past, I feel he has once again placed my feet on the road to a journey to a better me, for the sake of myself and my family.

I dunno what will happen next but I am excited about it. Keep me and my family in your prayers.

Respectfully,

Mudcat

Oh Mudcat,

I wept for your situation. I am glad that you are excited about what the future may be in your journey; but, I mourn for the loss of something which has been so precious to you. When you meet with this new Pastor to speak with him, I know that you will do so prayerfully and with the assistance of the Holy Ghost. Who knows, the words you say may plant seeds which will help bring forth good fruit....perhaps in his youthful earnestness to teach what he has been taught, maybe he has already felt some doubts about these positions. God will use you for His purposes. Your heart is in the right place. Whatever happens will eventually turn out to be better than you expected, as Father loves to pour blessings out upon us when we keep His commandments---especially when we love one another sincerely despite our differences. (Gosh, He blesses us even when we're not looking or are even aware of it!!).

Please keep us posted on how things turn out. You, your family, the new Pastor, and his congregation will all be in my prayers. We are all God's children, and He loves each and every one of us.

You are a good man, and you have blessed the lives of those fortunate to have discussions with you.

Much love,

jo

Edited by jo1952
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Must be hard to think of leaving those types of roots behind. I know it's hard to leave wards that I've grown to love, but the stress of deciding whether or not it is the right choice is significantly different since it always involves a physical move, job change, etc. and it is never about rejection of some part of what has been such a vital presence in my life. You are such a thoughtful person and so considerate of your family, I am certain in the long run whatever you choose will be a blessing to them, to yourself and others.

And even if you don't change the mind and approach of this young pastor, you will have planted a seed that hopefully the Spirit will be able to nourish in him overtime to create greater love and understanding of his fellow creatures.

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So sorry to hear that , Mudcat. It is difficult to leave a church you love, even if you find it necessary.

Your sensitivity towards your wife and family is very compendable. I know God will lead you to do what is right for all.

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May the richness of the Lord's blessings be upon you, Mudcat, as you navigate your way through this. I personally wish you didn't find yourself in this situation, but I'm increasingly of the opinion that very little (if anything) happens without it having some purpose in the grand plan which God has for us. I know the Spirit will guide you and bring you peace.

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I am quite sad about the matter.

As many of you know, I am a member of a Southern Baptist congregation. We are congregationalists and therefore we vote on new pastors when a vacancy occurs. For the past 3 years we have been fortunate to have one of the best interim pastors I have ever met. He carries doctorates and is more ecumenical than many SB pastors.

He is an elderly fellow and though his mind is razor sharp, his health has been failing him since I have known him. I always thought well of him that he valued spending his time teaching us how we should better through Biblical application rather than spending time on what he might have felt was wrong with other religious views. Members of other Protestant faiths... Methodists, Presbyterians.. as well as Pentecostals were accepted into the church without a necessity for re-baptism, even though some chose to.

There have been lots of bumps in the road on finding and calling a new pastor. But this past Sunday the pastor search committee was able to present a pastor for a trial sermon. It's been in the works for a couple of months and he met with our interim pastors endorsement. A young fellow in his early 30's, precious wife and no children. They have tried for 8 years and are now seeking to adopt from Russia.

Despite the nervousness that a fellow must incur when preaching a "trial" sermon before a group of over 600 people who plan to vote on if you shall be called. He had a very eloquent delivery, seemed strong and well grounded in his beliefs. His topic was on the trustworthiness of the Bible. Reminded me somewhat of Adrian Rogers, which is a man I always respected and I surmise that he has adopted as a bit of a role model given his delivery.

I suppose I cringed a bit when I saw him toss out some pejoratives against atheism. I don't agree with atheists on their view, but it struck me that he was a fellow who liked to draw lines in the sand marking the us from the them. I disregarded it for the most part. But it was his closing that caught my ear the most. He said in a raised and rapid voice... "There a various groups throughout the world that seek to destroy the Bible.. Islam, atheism, Hinduism, Buddhism, Jehovah Witnesses, Mormonism..... But the Word of God does not change." then he proceeded with the altar call.

Bold mine, there it was, the 400lb gorilla just walked in the room. My family attends with me every other Sunday and this was their Sunday at the LDS church so I am thankful they missed the introductory sermon.... It past so fleetingly that most didn't even catch it. But my heart tells me that he is very fundamental and more of an "us" versus "them" sort of fellow, in this stage in his life, than anything else. He has certainly planted his flag.

I am a good judge of character and I see that it will be near certain that on any given Sunday this fellow is likely to launch into a diatribe against LDS that will be more than my family can bear. I have no plans on putting them through dealing with it.

There were a number of visitors and children in the audience who were ineligible to vote. Out of all who voted, it was 493 for and 1 against. I was not the dissenter, I did not turn in my ballot. Our ballots required no signature, but I left my ballot signed sitting on my music stand with no vote cast and intentionally left it there rather than turn it in.

Though the pastor starts in December, I plan to fulfill my obligations to my music minister for our upcoming Christmas production and have explained the scenario to my wife and have told her I am advising her to Christmas with her folks at the LDS services throughout the entire month.

I do plan on having a heart to heart with new pastor before I write the whole situation off. But I don't expect much, I think he knows a great deal about fundamental Southern Baptist theology, but I think his exposure to other theologies are what have been offered to him from a fundamentalist Baptist perspective rather than the "horses mouth" so to speak. IOW a biased view. For a fellow his age, to a church this large he will have to do a bit of growing and I expect he will. I just don't think it fair for my family in our particular situation to withstand his growing pains.

My expectation is that non-Baptist protestants and charismatics will have to accept the bridle of Baptist baptism to join and so forth. Catholics weren't mentioned in his sermon, but given his slant I don't imagine they are any more bulletproof than anyone else he did mention.

I suppose I would hope for more, but I have been under the guidance of the Holy Spirit on the matter and I trust him more than my own predilections. Nevertheless I feel, given the fact that this particular church was the one I was raised as a child in, there is some protocol or stand to be made before I depart it.

God is good and as he has done in the past, I feel he has once again placed my feet on the road to a journey to a better me, for the sake of myself and my family.

I dunno what will happen next but I am excited about it. Keep me and my family in your prayers.

Respectfully,

Mudcat

You sir are indeed a class act...and always in my prayers. I am also proud to call you friend!

Edited by Bill “Papa” Lee
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Decisions such as these are so difficult; they bring growth and a heavy dose of pain along with it. What is important is that felt the guidance of the Holy Spirit and will follow where he leads. Hold close to his merciful guiding light and your path will lead to the joy of the Lord's will. Obedience is so much easier when we surrender completely to Him.

You and your family will be in my prayers. May God's peace stay with you always.

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Mudcat my friend I have found that the times that have brought me the greatest spiritual growth have often been quite traumatic. Listen close and hang on because while interesting these trips are often bumpy but he does guide us.

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I am so sorry, mudcat. Maybe you will be a light for him as you leave. We can hope for this. Some times in my life God decided I needed to take a different road. I am not fond of change so it sometimes takes a huge boot in the rear for me. Every time has resulted in very positive things for myself and my family. Maybe God has something wonderful in store for you!

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That's sad mudcat. I'm glad you are going to talk to him before you go-hopefully it'll help him to realize some things. It's awesome though that you are so willing to follow the spirit and do what is best for your family, even though it's taking you away from your church home. You are a good man.

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Hello Mudcat...

I can only add my voice to those of my spiritual brothers and sisters as expressed here... You and your family will be in my prayers... I'm so sorry you have this situation. But I too believe that the Spirit will guide you and you will realize blessings that our Heavenly Father has in store for you.

GG

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You certainly are a man of honor and integrity and I am glad you are on these boards. I read something awhile back written by Calvin Miller, pastor of the Westside Baptist Church. Writing in Christianity Today he says in "More Like Jesus More Like Us", "Only Jesus saves! But he loves while he does it. He is not an iconoclast Savor who picks the bubbles out of other people's champagne. And I am so glad he did not say to the crowd on Olivet, 'Go ye into all the stubborn, idolatrous world and tell them how lucky they are that you've come'."

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We quote liberally from the Holy Bible in talks and lessons; our authorities reference it in General Conference, including revering those who helped bring it forth to the masses (see, e.g., D. Todd Christofferson, General Conference April 2010, “The Blessing of Scripture” and Boyd K. Packer, General Conference April 2011, “Guided By the Holy Spirit”) ; it’s an article of our faith that it’s the word of God; we spend two years of both our four-year youth Seminary curriculum and our youth and adult Gospel Doctrine curriculum studying from it, but …

Pssst! Mudcat, your pastor knows the truth! This is all a part of our pernicious, insidious, nefarious effort to destroy it! :rofl::D;)

Seriously, though: I don’t mean to make light of your plight, and I wish you the best on your faith journey. :)

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Thanks everyone for your concerns and most importantly your prayers. It is good feeling knowing that friends are lifting us up in prayer.

For those who find the circumstances saddening, please don't fret for the Mudcats to much. We are going to be fine and when I say I am a excited about... I certainly am :D!

Sometimes, I find that the most uncertain circumstances are also the most peaceful. As long as we are willing to trust the Spirits guidance, we wind up exactly where God wants us to be and there is nothing better than that.

I have been thinking about the new pastor, and I imagine leaving one church and accepting a calling from another one has it's own uncertainty, as well. I did do a bit of research to find that the town he was born in and was preaching in does not have a CoJCoLDS branch, ward or stake and the closest one is about 40 miles away. Perhaps all his information is entirely second hand through books and so forth. Who knows for sure.

I try to sympathize with his situation. I imagine he is putting quite a bit in the Holy Spirits hands, as he makes such a life changing move himself.

I think sooner rather than later, I will need to have a discussion with him. A passage of Scripture keeps coming to mind as I ponder this.

1Co 9:19 For though I be free from all men, yet have I made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more.

1Co 9:20 And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law;

1Co 9:21 To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.

1Co 9:22 To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some.

1Co 9:23 And this I do for the gospel's sake, that I might be partaker thereof with you.

Perhaps there is more of a Paulish type character to him than he is aware.

Again thanks for your advice, concerns and prayers.

Mudcat

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I hope if you have a public opportunity to tell your congregation that you are unwilling to villify Mormons (who love the bible and their Savior as much as SBs do), and thus cannot stay in a church which does so.

I certainly don't plan on impugning the congregation. They are good people and they have been kind and welcoming to my family over the years. If I do leave, the sojourn itself, will likely transmit what needs to be to said.

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I certainly don't plan on impugning the congregation. They are good people and they have been kind and welcoming to my family over the years. If I do leave, the sojourn itself, will likely transmit what needs to be to said.

We love you, Mudcat, Mrs. Mudcat and all of the mudkittens!

jo

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Hugs... don't discount your worth as a teacher to the new pastor. He may be well meaning and lacknig information he needs to understand his unusual Christian/Mormon brethren and sisters.

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Sometimes, I find that the most uncertain circumstances are also the most peaceful. As long as we are willing to trust the Spirits guidance, we wind up exactly where God wants us to be and there is nothing better than that.

I've had this experience numerous times, and you are exactly right.

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Hugs... don't discount your worth as a teacher to the new pastor. He may be well meaning and lacknig information he needs to understand his unusual Christian/Mormon brethren and sisters.

Agreed.

You reminded me of an experience my housemates and I had 3-4 years ago. A Christian student group at uni was holding a series of weekly lectures on 'The evils of ________.' One week, the blank was filled in with 'Mormonism,' and one of my housemates attended to see what would be said. He came home grieved because so much of it had been false. His response was beautiful, though: He invited the two pastors who head the student group to our place for dinner. After eating, we then had a conversation about what we felt they were getting wrong about us and our faith. We up-front acknowledged that there are legitimate and very large differences in our understanding, faith, and practice, and we assured them we were OK with their disapproving of us, but we'd like to make sure that their disapproval was based on facts. We talked for about six hours that night. When it was finished, one of them said, 'I still think you're going to hell, but I promise we'll never repeat falsehoods about your faith again.'

Later, they contacted us again for a follow-up chat. They admitted that we'd stumped them that night but that they'd thought about and discussed what we'd said and they'd been forced to conclude that, though we were deceived on a number of important points, our faith in the Saviour was real and had clearly been effective in our lives. After that, I was actually invited one night to address their group, and we've been good friends ever since. They came with us to an elders quorum activity one weekend, and one of them used to regularly attend the FHE we held in our home. They've never accepted the Book of Mormon, obviously, but it feels good to have made friends in Christ nonetheless.

Edited by Hamba Tuhan
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If I'm going to Hell for being a Mormon, at least I'll be amoung friends.

Joseph Smith: '[L]et me be resurrected with the Saints, whether I ascend to heaven or descend to hell, or go to any other place. And if we go to hell, we will turn the devils out of doors and make a heaven of it.'

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