juliann Posted July 16, 2011 Posted July 16, 2011 I am asking this of active believing LDS. It is not for the purpose of arguing any position.I would be interested in hearing from those who believe that worthy men will have more than one wife in the Celestial Kingdom and what leads you to this conclusion.
Olavarria Posted July 16, 2011 Posted July 16, 2011 (edited) As you know, I've thought about this a whole lot and I've come to the conclusion that I have no clue as to whether or not ALL GODS ARE POLYGAMISTS. Frankly, I don't care anymore. My calling and election hasn't been made sure so I have bigger fish to fry. Edited July 16, 2011 by Pedro A. Olavarria
urroner Posted July 16, 2011 Posted July 16, 2011 A lot of women are clamoring to marry me, so for their sake, I hope there is polygamy in the next life. 1
frankenstein Posted July 16, 2011 Posted July 16, 2011 section 132 and "In that day 7 women shall cleave unto 1 man"
TAO Posted July 16, 2011 Posted July 16, 2011 (edited) I don't know... but I don't think it matters... I think it may be necessary... but I don't know what God wants... perhaps some married singly, and some polygamously? I think he will do whatever is best in terms of his will =). I have a bad habit of being too over-declarative at times XD. Edited July 16, 2011 by TAO
Nathair/|\ Posted July 16, 2011 Posted July 16, 2011 section 132 and "In that day 7 women shall cleave unto 1 man"As long as I'm not that one man.
bluebell Posted July 16, 2011 Posted July 16, 2011 I believe that there will be polygamy in the Celestial kingdom, but i don't believe it will be mandatory. 3
Senator Posted July 16, 2011 Posted July 16, 2011 section 132 and "In that day 7 women shall cleave unto 1 man"The cleavage of one woman is about all I can afford! 1
alter idem Posted July 16, 2011 Posted July 16, 2011 I am asking this of active believing LDS. It is not for the purpose of arguing any position.I would be interested in hearing from those who believe that worthy men will have more than one wife in the Celestial Kingdom and what leads you to this conclusion.I believe it is an eternal principle. I believe that some men will have more than one wife--but, I'm a heretic in that I speculate some women may have more than one husband. I do not believe that all 'worthy' men will have more than one spouse and I don't believe it shows a person more 'worthy' than another who has one spouse. I think some see it as a kind of competition--having more than one spouse is a prize of some sort for living more righteously. I think that smacks of pride and power seeking. I do not think people who think in such a way are very 'celestial'.I assume Celestial beings don't get caught up in those worldly ways of thinking; but would willingly, and lovingly accept another into their eternal union if that was what Heavenly Father wanted for them. section 132 and "In that day 7 women shall cleave unto 1 man"I think this is often misinterpreted. If it is read within context, it is describing conditions of the world and not the righteous, therefore not describing the Church of Jesus Christ.
LeSellers Posted July 16, 2011 Posted July 16, 2011 (edited) A lot of women are clamoring to marry me, so for their sake, I hope there is polygamy in the next life.While this was written in jest, I am convinced there is more than a grain of truth in your statement. Even here on earth, it is readily apparent that women, at least many of them, prefer a fraction of good man (by which they mean a desirable one) over the whole of a bad man (by which they mean a less desirable one). That's why we see the phenomenon of mistresses: "wives" who see themselves better off in an informal and even illegal relationship with the man of their choice than they would feel if married to another man. Polygyny, in spite of its being mathematically inexplicable (or at least less explicable)*, is an ancient and highly successful mating tradition, and is routine in cultures where parents choose husbands for their daughters. One is left to ponder why a man would decide that his daughter would better be wed to a man with one or twelve wives than to another man whose only wife she would be. It boils down to this, in my view: her father (who, do not forget, loves his daughter) wants his grand children and his little girl to be well-provided for.* Even though there are slightly more boy babies born than girls, by the time men reach the age of marrying, there are a lot more eligible women than competing men. First, boys die more often than girls, and, second, boys mature later, meaning that, at any given "marrying age", there are more women who want to become wives than men who want to be husbands (more precisely: more women who want to be mothers than men who want to be fathers). Add in the disproportionate number of male homosexuals (~1:80) compared to females (~1:250), and the number of available men is even less. This means the true ratio of marriageable men-to-women is far lower than 50-50. With rigorous monogyny, there would always be a very large number of unhappily unmatched women, and many, perhaps most, of those who are given in marriage are doomed to have undesirable husbands.In the Celestial Kingdom, the stakes will be different, and it will be the women themselves who will choose, but the underlying logic will be the same: it is better to have a fraction of a good man (meaning a righteous one) than an undesirable whole man who will not be able to have her anyway, given that only righteous men will have wives, whether one or many. You may presuppose that this necessitates more available (i.e., righteous) women than men, and it is obvious that it works out better if there are, but it does not require it. There may very well be other elements of "availability" and "desirability" in the Celestial Kingdom of which we have no inklings, much less knowledge. It simply makes no sense for Celestial Marriage to have included Plural Marriage at various points in time if those sealings do not persist into eternity. The underlying concepts of Plural Marriage, which is and always was understood to be a subset of Celestial Marriage, were inseparably connected to the idea of the spouses' being sealed to each other by the Holy Spirit of Promise for time and for all eternity. It is inconceivable that only one such marriage would continue when the same Priesthood power and the same love elements effected all of the husband's marriages. In the Celestial kingdom, as on earth, polygyny works to the women's benefit and against men. Every woman who wants to be married can be under polygyny, and every woman who deserves sealing will be sealed in Plural Marriage. Not every man would have such blessings, as many hasten to point out. Lehi Edited July 16, 2011 by LeSellers
Storm Rider Posted July 16, 2011 Posted July 16, 2011 I am asking this of active believing LDS. It is not for the purpose of arguing any position.I would be interested in hearing from those who believe that worthy men will have more than one wife in the Celestial Kingdom and what leads you to this conclusion.During this mortal existence I have found living with one wife more than I can handle. Marriage is hardwork! Frankly, if asked I would have to decline and just assert that my wife is more than I can handle and plead that it be passed to another. Do I believe in polygamy? Yes, but is for the few and was never and will never be practised by the majority of saints. This is one calling that I would decline.
Garden Girl Posted July 16, 2011 Posted July 16, 2011 I agree with Bluebell... I think there will be polygamy in the Celestial Kingdom, but that it will not be mandatory. Otherwise, we would cease to do temple sealings of men to their wives to whom they were married in this life, i.e., a widower is sealed not only to his first wife but also to any subsequent wife or wives (he could be a widower several times before his own death, and sealed to each one).
Lightbearer Posted July 16, 2011 Posted July 16, 2011 I am asking this of active believing LDS. It is not for the purpose of arguing any position.I would be interested in hearing from those who believe that worthy men will have more than one wife in the Celestial Kingdom and what leads you to this conclusion.What I believe is this, if God commands us then it is a righteous and eternal principle, if we are the instigator of it and it is not commanded of God (as with the FLDS and other such polygamy cults it is not righteous and is evil.) Really as simple as that. In our day if a man marries a wife and that wife dies, and he remarries in the Temple and all parties keep their covenants then yes he will have both wives in the Celestial Kingdom. Yesterday my wife and I went through an endowment session of the Orlando Temple and I noticed the ratio of women to men and it gave me pause and wondered if perhaps this might be the case (plural marriage) but who knows? I know that no worthy soul will miss out on the blessings of eternity because of a less valiant spouse. But it will be done according to our desires and not required against our will. I have no problem with it (the principle) either way.
Deborah Posted July 16, 2011 Posted July 16, 2011 I agree with Bluebell... I think there will be polygamy in the Celestial Kingdom, but that it will not be mandatory.Ditto. I have friends who have been sealed to more than one woman. I think that we have no comprehension of what marriage will be like in the CK. I don't think there will be any selfishness or jealousy and that the important thing is that we are all sealed together in that unbroken link under Heavenly Father.
urroner Posted July 16, 2011 Posted July 16, 2011 Ditto. I have friends who have been sealed to more than one woman. I think that we have no comprehension of what marriage will be like in the CK. I don't think there will be any selfishness or jealousy and that the important thing is that we are all sealed together in that unbroken link under Heavenly Father.I also think that some of the people here on Earth that we dislike the most will be some of our mostest bestest friends in the hereafter.
K-2 Posted July 16, 2011 Posted July 16, 2011 "A key, every principle proceeding from God is eternal, and any principle which is not eternal is of the Devil." (TPJS 181)I haven't thought much about polygamy specifically, but I think that the above quotation would be applicable. I believe polygamy to have proceeded from God (rather thatn just Joseph Smith's libido or something), therefore it must be an eternal principle.
mfbukowski Posted July 16, 2011 Posted July 16, 2011 Can't decide on this one.On one hand, I think that essential to the principle of Eternal Marriage is the whole yin and yang of it- male and female becoming one flesh- opposition in all things- (one major reason I think SSM is wrong), plus the notion that the "self" must unify with the "other", as a principle of love- it gets complicated. (to be explained maybe one day if I feel up to it)Plus, I think that we are to become "one flesh" as Christ is with the Church- the Bridegroom and the church unified as one. I am also a social trinitarian so I believe that the Godhead is unified by love and purpose- the purpose is "bringing up the kids"- ie "bringing to pass the immortality and eternal life of man"So the principle of polygamy, to me, CAN be seen as reflecting Christ - one- married to many- the church.- so on alternate Wednesdays, I think that polygamy is an eternal principle.Most of the rest of the time, I think the unity of yin and yang and the unity of self and the other- as opposed to self and many others- wins.So my vote is probably 70% monogamy as eternal principle and 30% polygamy.Waiting for further revelation on that one! 1
cinepro Posted July 16, 2011 Posted July 16, 2011 I am asking this of active believing LDS. It is not for the purpose of arguing any position.I would be interested in hearing from those who believe that worthy men will have more than one wife in the Celestial Kingdom and what leads you to this conclusion.Mrs. Cinepro is equally active but probably more "believing", so I asked her this question. To my surprise, her answer was: "I hope not".
Calm Posted July 16, 2011 Posted July 16, 2011 "In that day 7 women shall cleave unto 1 man"If you read that section in context, it is hardly describing a celestial style of marriage so it cannot be used to support the idea of a future celestial state of marriage. The women want to marry to take away their shame and all they are requiring from the man to do so is his name, he contributes nothing else to the marriage.Many scholars see the division between Isaiah 3 and 4 after verse 1 so that the first verse is describing the fruits of the transgressions of the Daughters of Zion from the previous chapter.http://institute.lds.org/manuals/old-testament-institute-student-manual-2/ot-in2-05-isa1-13.asp
Xander Posted July 16, 2011 Posted July 16, 2011 I'd be interested to know how many folks would accept the principle if it were instituted again, starting tomorrow. What if the Prophet said God commanded him to re-institute it and that we were all commanded to comply. Of course, this assumes it would be perfectly legal (which it will be, inevitably).The thing is, as a believing member I came to the realization that I never could have accepted this doctrine if I were born in the 19th century. I found it easy to dismiss or defend, so long as I was never expected to participate. But what if, after the legalization of polygamy, God decides that is what the Church should engage in again? Could I give up my wife to the Prophet if he demanded her? Absolutely not, and it boggles the mind to think other men professing to love their wives, would do or have done this.
Calm Posted July 16, 2011 Posted July 16, 2011 Since I believe the underlying principles of the Celestial Kingdom are love and joy, I believe it is possible that there might be plural marriages in the next life so as to not require those who have had more than one loving and committed relationship here on earth to have to choose between loves. If this is so though, this implies that the same principle will exist for women as men so my position is similar to alteridem's. I see no underlying or inherent reason why---if men have the ability to have a celestial relationship with more than one woman---that the same isn't true for women being able to have the ability to have a celestial relationship with more than one man.
mbh26 Posted July 16, 2011 Posted July 16, 2011 During this mortal existence I have found living with one wife more than I can handle.When I read Near Death Experiences, people often talk about many things happening at once. They see a preview of their entire life within seconds. We know that subatomic particles exist in two or more places at one time. People talk of meeting God or Jesus Christ, yet if He were constrained to being in one place at one time as we are, how possible would that really be?
juliann Posted July 16, 2011 Author Posted July 16, 2011 Mrs. Cinepro is equally active but probably more "believing", so I asked her this question. To my surprise, her answer was: "I hope not". That sounds like a yes.
juliann Posted July 16, 2011 Author Posted July 16, 2011 The thing is, as a believing member I came to the realization that I never could have accepted this doctrine if I were born in the 19th century. I found it easy to dismiss or defend, so long as I was never expected to participate. But what if, after the legalization of polygamy, God decides that is what the Church should engage in again? Could I give up my wife to the Prophet if he demanded her? Absolutely not, and it boggles the mind to think other men professing to love their wives, would do or have done this.There seems to be a lot more squeamishness about women having multiple partners than men doing the same which is a topic of its own.Probably the question needs to be broken down into polygyny and polyandry because I suspect some responses would differ if the gender was changed.
mbh26 Posted July 16, 2011 Posted July 16, 2011 that the same isn't true for women being able to have the ability to have a celestial relationship with more than one manHow many women would want to do that?
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