Appropriate Sacrament Meeting Music

[MorningStar]

A friend and I are planning on singing a duet together in Sacrament sometime this Summer. We are both classically trained, but it seems like "appropriate" music is such a gray area. I've been reading this section in the music handbook.

The music doesn't have to be a hymn and we can use hymns from other churches as long as they are doctrinally correct. Not too difficult a standard there.

This is where I start to get confused.

Secular music should not replace sacred music in Sunday meetings. Some religiously oriented music presented in a popular style is not appropriate for sacrament meetings. Also, much sacred music that is suitable for concerts and recitals is not appropriate for a Latter-day Saint worship service.

How do you determine what is and what isn't? This is another thing I struggle with.

Music in Church meetings should not draw attention to itself or be for demonstration. This music is for worship, not performance.

Where is the line between worship and performance? I find myself toning down my voice a lot in sacrament meeting because I don't want it to be over the top. My friend is Lutheran and is used to having a lot more musical options in her worship services.

I decided not to put this in social hall so you guys can debate what is and is not appropriate.

Under frequently asked questions:

May we use classical music for special selections?

"In addition to the hymns, other appropriate selections may be used for prelude and postlude music, choir music, and special musical selections. . . . " "Secular music should not replace sacred music in Sunday meetings. Also, much sacred music that is suitable for concerts and recitals is not appropriate for a Latter-day Saint worship service" (Handbook 2: 14.4.2). In keeping with these guidelines, music for sacrament meetings should be chosen and performed with the intent of promoting worship, rather than bringing attention to the performance itself.

That doesn't exactly answer the question. What are some examples of classical, doctrinally correct religious music that would not be appropriate? What are some examples of some songs that are appropriate?

[Deborah]

MS, I think the "much sacred music that is suitable for concerts and recitals is not appropriate for a Latter-day Saint worship service" is referring back to the religious music being presented in a popular format (ie rock). I think as long as a song is presented in a reverent arrangement and expresses a gospel principle it would be appropriate. Some LDS groups have arranged hymns into popular renditions which aren't appropriate for sacrament meeting for example.

[MorningStar]

MS, I think the "much sacred music that is suitable for concerts and recitals is not appropriate for a Latter-day Saint worship service" is referring back to the religious music being presented in a popular format (ie rock). I think as long as a song is presented in a reverent arrangement and expresses a gospel principle it would be appropriate. Some LDS groups have arranged hymns into popular renditions which aren't appropriate for sacrament meeting for example.

Years ago when the Christmas program was being prepared, someone said they wanted an instrumental version of O Holy Night, but couldn't find anyone to do it. I said I would be happy to sing it if she couldn't find anyone. She said she had just been to a meeting and they mentioned avoiding pageantry and she was afraid it would get too operatic. Sure, you can sing that at a recital, but I think it can be done in sacrament meeting without overdoing it. She wasn't familiar with my voice at that time and realizes now that I can keep the vibrato to a minimum.

I don't typically get nervous singing now, but my main thought now is, "Am I performing? Do people think I'm performing? Was that too loud just now?" I've gotten comments sometimes that I held back. Yep. I did. So on one hand, I want to use the talent God gave me. On the other, I don't want to make the time we worship Him about me, but it's impossible to sing without drawing some attention to yourself.

[urroner]

I use to be the music chairman of the ward and this was a constant fight between my bishop and me. He insisted that the music had to be from the hymnal or was an arrangement of a hymn from an hymnal. Dang, that was tough. He insisted that it was a "decree" handed down from the SP. So the ward choir director talked to the SP about this and he mentioned that we wanted to do "Come Thou Fount of Every Blessing," which is one of the SP's favorites. We had done our homework.

The SP finally agreed that it didn't have to be a hymn, but that it had to be of the same type of any hymn in the hymnal. This "ruling" would exclude a lot of classical music and most "revival" type music and one that I wouldn't disagree with. I have seen too many people who sang music more to show off their voices and talents and less to promote the Spirit. I have seen people take a beautiful hymn and change it so drastically that with all the runs and minors thrown in, the hymn was unrecognizable.

I think that if it's something that would be sung in General Conference, then it's allowable.

I had a choir director who had a beautiful voice and she could really arrange some great pieces, but when it was all done and over with, her music always was simple with a lot of sevenths, she loved barbershop, and the Spirit could always be felt.

I guess the secret is would that arrangement or song be sung in General Conference.

With this simple rule, we have never had any problems with the bishop agreeing to the music, except for the upcoming Mother's Day song. The priesthood has always done "Love at Home" and I know the sisters have always enjoyed it, but it's just so plain and routine. Two years ago, I had the primary sing "Teach Me to Walk in the Light" with the priesthood. The primary sung the first verse, the priesthood the second, and both sang the third. When the priesthood started singing the second verse, half the sisters in the meeting started to cry and some old fool directing them had tears in his eyes also. When the whole group started singing the third verse, the other half of the sisters started crying also.

The sisters loved it. Now, you would think that we would be able to do that again, but noooooooo, the bishop won't allow it. He says that by doing this, it would be too disruptive in the meeting and that the priesthood would look at it like a competition and blast the primary out. Where did he get that idea? It didn't happen the first time and I know the kids loved singing with the priesthood, but, when all was said and done, we will be singing "Love at Home" for Mother's Day again and the primary will be singing "Teach Me" next year by themselves.

Murmur, murmur, murmur.

Later when I was murmuring to the first counselor, he asked my why I was complaining to him and I told him that I had to complain to somebody and would he rather that I complain to him or to somebody else. I knew that the complaint would stop with him, but if I told somebody else, I sure didn't know where it was going to stop, besides somebody had to tell the bishop that that was a stupid decision and I'd rather it be me than half of the sisters in the ward.

[Pahoran]

A friend and I are planning on singing a duet together in Sacrament sometime this Summer. We are both classically trained, but it seems like "appropriate" music is such a gray area. I've been reading this section in the music handbook.

The music doesn't have to be a hymn and we can use hymns from other churches as long as they are doctrinally correct. Not too difficult a standard there.

This is where I start to get confused.

How do you determine what is and what isn't? This is another thing I struggle with.

Where is the line between worship and performance? I find myself toning down my voice a lot in sacrament meeting because I don't want it to be over the top. My friend is Lutheran and is used to having a lot more musical options in her worship services.

I decided not to put this in social hall so you guys can debate what is and is not appropriate.

Under frequently asked questions:

That doesn't exactly answer the question. What are some examples of classical, doctrinally correct religious music that would not be appropriate? What are some examples of some songs that are appropriate?

My bishop has approved for our ward choir to sing "The Seer, Joseph, the Seer" in June, and has provisionally approved "Eternal Father, Strong to Save" for an unspecified time later in the year. (I'll be mucking around with the lyrics for the latter item, to make them more doctrinally kosher, as well as relevant to landlubbers.)

I've previously done some reasonably ambitious anthems, including "King All Glorious" (soprano solo and SATB) "Seek Ye the Lord" (tenor solo and SATB) and "Oh Divine Redeemer" (Beethoven, SATB) with choirs in Sacrament meetings.

I like Urroner's rule of thumb: if it's good enough for MoTab in General Conference, then it's certainly got to be good enough for Sacrament Meeting.

But ultimately it's the bishop's call.

Regards,

Pahoran

[frankenstein]

I was in a meeting once where someone made "Oh Holy Night" inappropriate, the singer belted the song out and entirely too loud, his style of singing was great for an opera but not for a Church meeting.

[ttribe]

Anything by U2....oh wait.

[jadams_4242]

A friend and I are planning on singing a duet together in Sacrament sometime this Summer. We are both classically trained, but it seems like "appropriate" music is such a gray area. I've been reading this section in the music handbook.

The music doesn't have to be a hymn and we can use hymns from other churches as long as they are doctrinally correct. Not too difficult a standard there.

This is where I start to get confused.

How do you determine what is and what isn't? This is another thing I struggle with.

Where is the line between worship and performance? I find myself toning down my voice a lot in sacrament meeting because I don't want it to be over the top. My friend is Lutheran and is used to having a lot more musical options in her worship services.

I decided not to put this in social hall so you guys can debate what is and is not appropriate.

Under frequently asked questions:

That doesn't exactly answer the question. What are some examples of classical, doctrinally correct religious music that would not be appropriate? What are some examples of some songs that are appropriate?

simply figure that someones convertion to the church rests upon your music.

[Nathair/|\]

Here are two examples of sacred music that, as awesome as they are in other settings, are not appropriate for Sacrament Meeting.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jBHu_KYrOEE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTJi5ImbB7g

[urroner]

Here are two examples of sacred music that, as awesome as they are in other settings, are not appropriate for Sacrament Meeting.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTJi5ImbB7g

The Hail to the Hammer hymn is definitely a sacramental hymn. Some blonde dude was bringing in the sacramental wine starting about 1:06 into the video. I was moved to tears.

[One Clear Voice]

Guess one could ask the Bishop or Relief Society Leader?

[Calm]

My rule of thumb---if one is drawn to think more about how great the technique or quality of the performance is and less about how it invites the Spirit, the arrangement is probably inappropriate.

[William Schryver]

My bishop has approved for our ward choir to sing "The Seer, Joseph, the Seer" in June, and has provisionally approved "Eternal Father, Strong to Save" for an unspecified time later in the year. (I'll be mucking around with the lyrics for the latter item, to make them more doctrinally kosher, as well as relevant to landlubbers.)

I've previously done some reasonably ambitious anthems, including "King All Glorious" (soprano solo and SATB) "Seek Ye the Lord" (tenor solo and SATB) and "Oh Divine Redeemer" (Beethoven, SATB) with choirs in Sacrament meetings.

I like Urroner's rule of thumb: if it's good enough for MoTab in General Conference, then it's certainly got to be good enough for Sacrament Meeting.

But ultimately it's the bishop's call.

Regards,

Pahoran

It is not always an easy matter to identify, beforehand, something that is inappropriate for Sacrament meeting. But I know it when I hear it.

Several things that I hate to hear in Sacrament Meeting:

• Almost any "Mormon Pop" song--stuff done by Mormons that is similar in style to "Christian Contemporary." That said, there are some exceptions--albeit few and far between. I am fond of many of Kenneth Pope's Women at the Well songs, and have even sung Greater Love in Sacrament meeting on a couple of occasions. For the most part, however, I think "Mormon Pop" (including, especially, Saturday's Warrior and My Turn on Earth songs!) is not appropriate for a Sacrament service.
  `
  
• Anything played on an out-of-tune stringed instrument. My wife has permanent scars in her thigh from my fingernails digging into them while being compelled to listen to someone play an out-of-tune violin or cello or harp.
  `
  
• Anything from Handel's Messiah. Sorry, just doesn't do it for me.
  `
  
• With the exception of #23 - We Ever Pray for Thee, any hymn written by Evan Stephens. If it were up to me, I'd remove from the hymn book every Evan Stephens hymn except for We Ever Pray for Thee, Let Us All Press On, and True to the Faith. Apologies to the Evan Stephens lovers out there, but his music just doesn't appeal to me. Never has.
  `
  
• Anything that has "too many notes." In other words, I'm not interested in hearing virtuosity in Sacrament meeting. I'm interested in hearing elegant, reverent simplicity. In my judgment, the most economical compositions constitute the finest work of the great musical artists--hence the reason Chopin's Prelude in E Minor remains probably his most enduring work. Simple, but stunningly moving when played with the restrained passion of disciplined artistry.
  

I do special numbers quite frequently. One of my standard approaches is to compose a reverent piano solo rendition of a Sacrament hymn. I recently blended together #180 - Father in Heaven, We Do Believe with the old primary song My Heavenly Father Loves Me. I have done arrangements of several other hymns from the hymn book. They are typically quite reverent, restrained, and relatively brief--seldom, if ever, more than 3 minutes in length. (Here is a recording of a medley I played for last year's Christmas Program: Christmas Medley.)

I have also put together quartets and octets to do subtly enhanced versions of hymn book hymns. A men's quartet I organized did a tear-jerking a capella rendition of #335 - Brightly Beams Our Father's Mercy.

Anyway, there is no easy answer to this ongoing question of Sacrament Meeting musical propriety. But I do believe there is a lot of unplowed ground that remains in terms of using our existing opus of hymns as a springboard for appropriate Sacrament Meeting musical expressions. That said, our ward choir has recently done very moving versions of My Shepherd Will Supply My Need, Behold the Wounds in Jesus' Hands, and Consider the Lilies.

[urroner]

I have also put together quartets and octets to do subtly enhanced versions of hymn book hymns. A men's quartet I organized did a tear-jerking a capella rendition of #335 - Brightly Beams Our Father's Mercy.

Anyway, there is no easy answer to this ongoing question of Sacrament Meeting musical propriety. But I do believe there is a lot of unplowed ground that remains in terms of using our existing opus of hymns as a springboard for appropriate Sacrament Meeting musical expressions. That said, our ward choir has recently done very moving versions of My Shepherd Will Supply My Need, Behold the Wounds in Jesus' Hands, and Consider the Lilies.

Are your arrangements available online?

[William Schryver]

Are your arrangements available online?

Unfortunately, no. That is, there are no written arrangements. I am, I must confess, a self-taught musician who does not read music very well (kind of strange for the ward organist, I know), and I am simply not capable of writing it. I need to purchase some good composition software in order to produce written versions of my stuff. For now, I've contented myself with at least making audio recordings of each composition when I feel it is completed. I need to upload to my music page some of my more recent compositions.

Regrettably, I have learned and performed many, many pieces in the days or week preceding the performance, and then permitted them to be forgotten on account of not at least recording them. I've vowed to never let that happen again.

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

A friend and I are planning on singing a duet together in Sacrament sometime this Summer. We are both classically trained, but it seems like "appropriate" music is such a gray area. I've been reading this section in the music handbook.

The music doesn't have to be a hymn and we can use hymns from other churches as long as they are doctrinally correct. Not too difficult a standard there.

This is where I start to get confused.

Do "Amazing Grace"...or "I can only imagine". I bet they would love it.

[USU78]

My father was/is a trumpeter. He's now 85 and still plays every Friday at 4:00 pm at the local old folks' home with a 4-7 piece combo.

When he was about 13, his music teacher up in Logan organized a group to play in local sacrament meetings. One week they had one violin, one trumpeter, one pianist, and one other brass instrument (can't remember which) show up for that week's performance of sacred music. It didn't go well, and I imagine my father (grandson of one of Evan Stephen's chums and students) and the rest of the group were pretty awful.

The Bishop of the ward (my father's home ward, as it happened), from the pulpit, decried the quality of music, the choice of music, and the credentials/abilities of my father's music teacher as soon as the piece was completed.

My father walked out of Church that Sunday.

And never attended his home ward again as long as that guy was Bishop . . . and Bishops served for decades in those days.

Why do I share this?

We've got to be careful how we address music issues, and conversations about appropriateness of sacred music need to be pursued with greater care than some tin-eared folks, who may not understand the cultural issues involved, can apparently bring to bear.

Additionally, before we start throwing out species of instruments as unclean in a sacrament meeting setting, we ought to rewatch the Bethelemahu'a performed by the Tabs in the Conference Center on Sunday morning. You'll see the choir clapping and lots of drums and exclamations by individuals during the piece.

That should be our example, even if we personally aren't as comfortable with other musical idioms.

USU "Steps away from soapbox" 78

[BCSpace]

Secular music should not replace sacred music in Sunday meetings. Some religiously oriented music presented in a popular style is not appropriate for sacrament meetings. Also, much sacred music that is suitable for concerts and recitals is not appropriate for a Latter-day Saint worship service.

How do you determine what is and what isn't? This is another thing I struggle with.

If it's meant to get people hopping and jumping in the pews, it's inappropriate. Btw, let's see if we can get "Come Thou Fount of Every Blessing" into the hymnbook.

[MorningStar]

This is one I sang with my sister for Christmas.

I've sung O Divine Redeemer before, but with that high A, it makes me wonder if it makes it a performance. I don't think it always comes down to the song itself, but the attitude of the person singing it. I had a music chairman come to hear me sing to make sure my selection wasn't over the top, but she said, "Oh. You don't sing that too operatically at all." I removed the trills too because I think those have more of a show-off quality.

[William Schryver]

... let's see if we can get "Come Thou Fount of Every Blessing" into the hymnbook.

You mean get it back in the hymnbook. It was in it for decades, until the 1985 edition came out. I don't know why it was removed, but I agree that it would be better than at least a hundred of the hymns that are in the book now.

[bluebell]

Do "Amazing Grace"...or "I can only imagine". I bet they would love it.

I really love 'i can only imagine' but i wouldn't want to hear it in sacrament meeting. For me, it's too 'pop' sounding.

[Bernard Gui]

A few thoughts from a life-long church musician as well as professional performer and arranger:

If trained church musicians want to put on a concert, call the building scheduler and schedule one.

It's easy, people will come, and it will be very, very rewarding.

From Thomas Hastings (has 3 hymns in our book), Christian hymn writer:

...if the style of the music is at best insipid; if the performance of a well-selected piece is so deficient as neither to give character to the words sung, nor to make melody or harmony that can be patiently endured; or if, on the other hand, the music is so loaded with extraneous attractions as necessary to draw toward itself that degree of attention which should be devoted to the themes of the song; we need no language of prophecy - we are offering a vain oblation. The exercise of singing becomes in either of these cases, a hindrance to devotion. It entirely fails as an instrument of Christian edification.

I believe Lowell Mason (5 hymns in our book), Christian hymn writer and educator, said something to this effect:

(can't locate a source)

If, after a church service, people congratulate me on how well I performed rather than how they felt the Spirit of

God while I performed, then I have failed as a church musician.

I personally lament the "Age of the Arranger" in the church music scene. Seems like almost all the creative energy of our best

musicians is invested in making new arrangements of hymns that already have dozens of arrangements. It would appear that

the messages of our hymns are made more powerful with more emotional arrangments. Seems like there could

be a venue for new "approved" compositions for sacrament meeting purposes that would preserve our tradition and replace many

of the Protestant composers and lyricists that dominate our hymn book.

Re "Come Thou Fount", the highly emotional BYU video has been over-exposed. I can't put my finger on it, but the text feels

a bit too much of a revival meeting, but that's just my opinion. "How Great Thou Art"....why?

Bernard

[Duncan]

I want to hear this in church, just once! maybe not at a Sacrament meeting but maybe like my funeral or something in the far off distance!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0PyBWLALFLQ

it is the Simpsons doing "Iron Butterfly"

[William Schryver]

Re "Come Thou Fount", the highly emotional BYU video has been over-exposed. I can't put my finger on it, but the text feels

a bit too much of a revival meeting, but that's just my opinion. "How Great Thou Art"....why?

I like the first verse. The remainder of it is, in my opinion, way overblown; too many notes (to quote the Emperor in Amadeus).

I think the second and third verses lose much of that "revival meeting" feel when they are performed as reverently as the first verse is in the BYU version. I am personally very fond of the Sally Deford piano/vocal arrangement of the song. She offers it free for download (in .pdf format) from her website: Come Thou Fount of Every Blessing. I have recently memorized it (which I prefer to do for all songs that I sing to my own accompaniment) and will be performing it in our ward next month.

[Pahoran]

Almost any "Mormon Pop" song--stuff done by Mormons that is similar in style to "Christian Contemporary." That said, there are some exceptions--albeit few and far between. I am fond of many of Kenneth Pope's Women at the Well songs, and have even sung Greater Love in Sacrament meeting on a couple of occasions. For the most part, however, I think "Mormon Pop" (including, especially, Saturday's Warrior and My Turn on Earth songs!) is not appropriate for a Sacrament service.

I don't know what anyone could possibly be thinking if they wanted to introduce that sort of kitsch into Sacrament meeting. Contemporary? At least half the time, it's just an alternate spelling for "contemptible."

Years ago I was in a choir that did "In This Very Room" in Sacrament meeting. I regard that as a "coyote song." I'd rather gnaw my own arm off than sing it again.

Anything played on an out-of-tune stringed instrument. My wife has permanent scars in her thigh from my fingernails digging into them while being compelled to listen to someone play an out-of-tune violin or cello or harp.

We need to encourage people to develop their talents. That said, IMHO if some pushy stage mother wants her little darling to perform in Sacrament meeting, then little darling's talents had better be developed at least to the point where it's not utterly excruciating to everyone who isn't tone-deaf.

Anything from Handel's Messiah. Sorry, just doesn't do it for me.

Philistine. I'll listen to the Messiah any time, anywhere. But I actually think most of it's a bit too much for Sacrament meeting. I've played the "Pastoral Symphony" as a prelude, though.

With the exception of #23 - We Ever Pray for Thee, any hymn written by Evan Stephens. If it were up to me, I'd remove from the hymn book every Evan Stephens hymn except for We Ever Pray for Thee, Let Us All Press On, and True to the Faith. Apologies to the Evan Stephens lovers out there, but his music just doesn't appeal to me. Never has.

I'm happy with everything I've seen of his. I wouldn't expect a congregation to sing "Let the Mountains Shout for Joy," though.

Anything that has "too many notes." In other words, I'm not interested in hearing virtuosity in Sacrament meeting. I'm interested in hearing elegant, reverent simplicity. In my judgment, the most economical compositions constitute the finest work of the great musical artists--hence the reason Chopin's Prelude in E Minor remains probably his most enduring work. Simple, but stunningly moving when played with the restrained passion of disciplined artistry.

I do special numbers quite frequently. One of my standard approaches is to compose a reverent piano solo rendition of a Sacrament hymn. I recently blended together #180 - Father in Heaven, We Do Believe with the old primary song My Heavenly Father Loves Me. I have done arrangements of several other hymns from the hymn book. They are typically quite reverent, restrained, and relatively brief--seldom, if ever, more than 3 minutes in length. (Here is a recording of a medley I played for last year's Christmas Program: Christmas Medley.)

Our ward choir has done "The First Noel/Pachelbel's Canon" in Sacrament meeting.

I have also put together quartets and octets to do subtly enhanced versions of hymn book hymns. A men's quartet I organized did a tear-jerking a capella rendition of #335 - Brightly Beams Our Father's Mercy.

That hymn is a standby for our Priesthood quorums, especially (for some reason) when visiting the sick. New Zealand congregations regularly sing in four-part harmony anyway.

Anyway, there is no easy answer to this ongoing question of Sacrament Meeting musical propriety. But I do believe there is a lot of unplowed ground that remains in terms of using our existing opus of hymns as a springboard for appropriate Sacrament Meeting musical expressions. That said, our ward choir has recently done very moving versions of My Shepherd Will Supply My Need, Behold the Wounds in Jesus' Hands, and Consider the Lilies.

Actually I don't think it's a hard question at all. Anything from the Hymn book, the children's songbook or The Choir Book is appropriate. Anything beyond that needs to be reverent, dignified and doctrinally sound, and receive the bishop's prior approval.

Regards,

Pahoran