Sabbath Observance

[cinepro]

I'm OK with that. You can schedule another time to do the baptisms.

I just told him that if God wants him to go do Temple baptisms, it will rain torrentially on Saturday.

[Scott Lloyd]

This can be 100% true in my experience.

Trouble is, you can't truly worship the Lord while ignoring/disobeying His commandments, such as going to the house of prayer and offering up your sacraments on his holy day (see D&C 59).

If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure upon my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the Lord, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure nor speaking thine own words:

Then shalt thou delight thyself in the Lord; and I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth, and feed thee with the heritage of Jacob thy father: for the mouth of the Lord hath spoken it.

Isaiah 58:13-14 (bold emphasis added)

[Senator]

Trouble is, you can't truly worship the Lord while ignoring/disobeying His commandments, such as going to the house of prayer and offering up your sacraments on his holy day (see D&C 59).

You can do both.

[bluebell]

You can do both.

The best sacraments i've been to have been those in Yellowstone National Park during the summer when our family is camping. Yeah, you don't look your best and you might smell like bug spray and campfire, but it's an awesome setting and so fun to attend with people from all over the world.

[Senator]

The best sacraments i've been to have been those in Yellowstone National Park during the summer when our family is camping. Yeah, you don't look your best and you might smell like bug spray and campfire, but it's an awesome setting and so fun to attend with people from all over the world.

Amen

[rpn]

We don't do sports or structured exercise on Sunday (and I always wonder when I read stories of how others said or justified doing something because some prominent leader sanctioned it why we think that is going to get us very far at judgment when the only thing that will matter is whether we continued doing something that felt disrespectful and inappropriate or whether we determined not to do it until or unless the Holy Ghost taught us it was okay --- our Savior isn't going to excuse us when we say that we say or heard someone else does it so we decided it was okay for us to do it too). We don't watch TV shows (except for ones that are particularly uplifting). I am in the process of deciding whether I can honor the Sabbath in giving a seminar about what I do for work (though this one will be volunteer, and is being scheduled on Sunday out of respect for the large percent who are Jewish). My older sister told of our parents coming home from conference having heard Geo. Albert Smith talk about the blessings that saints were denying themselves by not honoring the sabbath one year when she was about 5 and them never again getting ice cream cones after church like the family tradition had been before.

[Scott Lloyd]

The best sacraments i've been to have been those in Yellowstone National Park during the summer when our family is camping. Yeah, you don't look your best and you might smell like bug spray and campfire, but it's an awesome setting and so fun to attend with people from all over the world.

That's fine, so long as such meetings are authorized by a stake president or other local Church leader. They are not Church-approved otherwise.

[bluebell]

That's fine, so long as such meetings are authorized by a stake president or other local Church leader. They are not Church-approved otherwise.

Yellowstone has it's own branch (which meets in three seperate locations through-out the park during the summer months) which is a member of an Idaho stake (i forget which one-i'm thinking afton?).

[Senator]

That's fine, so long as such meetings are authorized by a stake president or other local Church leader. They are not Church-approved otherwise.

That raises an interesting scenario. I believe I would not be alone if I claimed that some of the most spiritually drenched sacrament meetings I've witnessed, were those held in the forest. Then we learned it wasn't "ok to do that".

How could the spirit be sanctioning our actions, when we were doing something that was a no-no?

[cinepro]

That raises an interesting scenario. I believe I would not be alone if I claimed that some of the most spiritually drenched sacrament meetings I've witnessed, were those held in the forest. Then we learned it wasn't "ok to do that".

How could the spirit be sanctioning our actions, when we were doing something that was a no-no?

It is an interesting scenario.

If a group of LDS weren't aware of the policy, and decided to bless and partake of the sacrament and hold a small service while on a camping trip, wouldn't we expect them to feel a "stupor of thought" or a bad feeling, like "Hey, we shouldn't be doing this"?

To what degree is the "Hey, we shouldn't be doing this" feeling influenced by the Holy Ghost, or influenced by their own cultural conditioning?

Suppose it were a group of friends or family, and one person ("Bill") knew about the policy from the CHI. The rest of the group don't believe him, so they go ahead and hold the service and prepare and bless the sacrament. The whole time, Bill is feeling really bad and guilty, and interprets this as the Spirit telling him what they're doing is wrong. The rest of the people feel the warm, peaceful feeling that they interpret as being the Spirit telling them they're doing the right thing and that God is pleased with their service.

Is it possible for the Spirit to send simultaneously contradicting messages? Or is someone misinterpreting a feeling?

[Scott Lloyd]

That raises an interesting scenario. I believe I would not be alone if I claimed that some of the most spiritually drenched sacrament meetings I've witnessed, were those held in the forest. Then we learned it wasn't "ok to do that".

How could the spirit be sanctioning our actions, when we were doing something that was a no-no?

If one knows it is disapproved and goes ahead and does it anyway, I don't believe the Spirit would sanction it.

[Senator]

Is it possible for the Spirit to send simultaneously contradicting messages? Or is someone misinterpreting a feeling?

I would say the latter. It would indicate to me that there was nothing inherently wrong with what we were doing but that it was simply contrary to church policy. (I know, there will be someone chime in, "what's the difference"?) The introduction of a church policy is introducing, as you say, a cultural condition, which in turn generates a new conscientiousness.

[bluebell]

Wouldn't that scenerio come back to the teaching that one cannot sin in ignorance?

If someone does it knowing that they are not supposed to, and does not have a stirring reason to believe that God would approve the change, then i don't believe the Spirit would confirm to that person that it was a good idea.

If no one knows they aren't supposed to do that, or they don't believe a random person who says as much, then i think they would be proceeding with good faith and that the Spirit would confirm the goodness of their choice.

Either way, i don't think anyone's salvation is at stake and it seems like having a sacramenting meeting that wasn't authorized might be better in God's eyes than not being a part of one at all, but i'm not saying that with any authority behind it.

[Senator]

Wouldn't that scenerio come back to the teaching that one cannot sin in ignorance?

Not only that, but seemingly blessed in it. (in certain things)

It's an example to me of how the Spirit listeth where it will, in spite of our attempts to corral it.

[Hamba Tuhan]

I just was hoping someone would debate from a hyper orthodox position Sunday appropriate activities.

I consider that I hold a somewhat hyper-orthodox position on this issue, and I saw nothing wrong with what you did this past Sunday. Go figure. I guess I'm not sure what you mean.

[cinepro]

I knew you were commenting personally and were not in anyway judging me. I just was hoping someone would debate from a hyper orthodox position Sunday appropriate activities.

But Sabbath observance thankfully is not outlined by specific do's and don'ts. So it would probably be an exercise in futility

Ok, as a former Chapel Mormon, I can tell you that what you did is properly classified as "recreation".

[katherine the great]

Either way, i don't think anyone's salvation is at stake and it seems like having a sacramenting meeting that wasn't authorized might be better in God's eyes than not being a part of one at all, but i'm not saying that with any authority behind it.

IMO, some people take the whole "authority" thing a little too far sometimes... We don't need any "authority" to have a spiritual experience or to meet together and exchange spiritual thoughts and ideas even without the ordinance of the sacrament.

[bluebell]

IMO, some people take the whole "authority" thing a little too far sometimes... We don't need any "authority" to have a spiritual experience or to meet together and exchange spiritual thoughts and ideas even without the ordinance of the sacrament.

What i meant (when i said that i wasn't speaking with any authority) was that i was expressing my own opinion on the hypothetical situation cinepro and senator were asking about and that my take on the consequences of the situation wasn't from anything anyone with authority to speak on the subject had said (lest i be CFR'd).

[katherine the great]

What i meant (when i said that i wasn't speaking with any authority) was that i was expressing my own opinion on the hypothetical situation cinepro and senator were asking about and that my take on the consequences of the situation wasn't from anything anyone with authority to speak on the subject had said (lest i be CFR'd).

And I think I can say authoritatively that I agree with you.

[Lamanite]

I consider that I hold a somewhat hyper-orthodox position on this issue, and I saw nothing wrong with what you did this past Sunday. Go figure. I guess I'm not sure what you mean.

That made me smile

Big UP!

Lamanite

[katherine the great]

Well, how about this? If you enjoy it, it is a violation of the Sabbath.

[Hamba Tuhan]

That made me smile

I wasn't joking about the 'hyper-orthodox' part, either. I don't watch TV or movies on the Sabbath. (I don't even own a television.) I avoid all commercial transactions except in an emergency. I choose to avoid 'worldly' music on the Sabbath where possible. (Giving swing lessons to one of my priests this past Sunday was an obvious exception.) For the past sixteen months, I have fasted every single Sunday for my Young Men. This past Sunday I was with one or more of my Young Men for nine-and-a-half hours, but it's not unusual for this figure to reach fourteen hours some weeks. I absolutely will not work or do secular study on the day. Once, when I had a casual position, I was rostered to work on Sunday, and I simply didn't show up, assuming I would be fired. I take the Sabbath very seriously.

But the thing that has helped me most in this regard is to consider that it is literally the Lord's day. It's not mine. I therefore try to do what He would do on the day. Sometimes--quite often, in fact--this involves spending time with kids. A few months ago, the parents of one of our soon-to-be-deacons were complaining at church that he had been cranky that morning, and they were therefore mad at him. Later that evening, I drove to their house and took the boy with me to a local park to play with his new boomerang. We spent more than an hour throwing and trying to catch it as the sun set. When we were both worn out, we sat down on the grass and had a pleasant conversation about the need to be pleasant at home. He promised me he'd try to do better.

I can't imagine anything more 'worshipful' to have done that day. Increasingly, I'm of the opinion that the Lord gave us the Sabbath to teach us how to live the other six days of the week, just like he gave us tithing to teach us to give away everything that we think we own.

[MorningStar]

Just curious about how others observe the Sabbath.

I live in the Daybreak community near the Oquirrh Temple. There are lots of trails and playgrounds and grassy fields to play on. Today I took my four daughters out for a run about 2 hours before Sunset. Here is a short list of what we did:

1. Ran hard and fast.

2. Ran slower and sang Bob Marley Songs.

3. Found a park with lots of hills and rolled down them till we couldn't stand up.

4. Found a garden of giant rocks and stood atop them and pretended to give speeches. We recited the preamble and I recited Matthew 5 (Sermon on the Mount)

4. Sang church songs as we watched the sun set on the Temple.

5. Played on the swings and talked about school, friends, life, etc.

6. Ran home and sang a song that each person chose.

When we got home we were sweaty and grassy and very happy! I think it was a Sabbath well spent.

Anyone else take a more conservative approach to the keeping of the Sabbath. I'm perfectly fine being attacked here as I put myself out there.

Big UP!

Lamanite

That sounds like a wonderful day.

[katherine the great]

This past Sunday I was with one or more of my Young Men for nine-and-a-half hours, but it's not unusual for this figure to reach fourteen hours some weeks. I absolutely will not work or do secular study on the day. Once, when I had a casual position, I was rostered to work on Sunday, and I simply didn't show up, assuming I would be fired. I take the Sabbath very seriously.

I'm curious to know: Don't you have children of your own?

[Duncan]

Well, how about this? If you enjoy it, it is a violation of the Sabbath.

That is the FUNNIEST thing I have heard in quite awhile!!!!