Tacenda

To me it's some bad fruit, but I guess our church is young. I still call it my church, even though not active. And with most religions, they aren't perfect. But this was a humdinger.

Thanks for this input, I believe you're right, some things can be from the bottom up, but this is probably as it should be.

You bring up something I had not thought about before. Growing up and being a member all my life, the only thing I learned was that polygamy was lived to help the widows that lost their husbands from the mobs or mostly by crossing the plains. So maybe that is why I had such a reaction to finding out JS lived polygamy before they were driven out of Nauvoo. It wasn't to take care of the widows after all. I subconsciously must have felt lied to. If that makes sense. And consciously. I was so dumbfounded when I learned of it in my late 40's. More like a slow motion feeling, shock I guess, more likely. Like I was in a dream like state of mind, or like when involved in an accident and everything is in slow motion. I looked it up, I guess it can be termed the Matrix effect. In conclusion, I didn't grow up believing it was a revelation. I guess I can only blame myself for not delving into LDS history.

I understand, I didn't finish the whole video. Not that it matters, she joined the church at 17 years old.

I appreciate your two cents!!

I think you're right, as usual!

That would be so very helpful for the women in the church especially! (my bold)

Snow was not recounting hearsay decades removed; she was personally involved in the early practice and regarded plural marriage as divinely mandated despite personal cost. 2. Heber C. Kimball (Apostle, First Presidency) Kimball taught publicly that Joseph Smith struggled deeply with the commandment and only proceeded after repeated angelic warnings. Paraphrase from Kimball’s teaching: Joseph Smith delayed obeying the commandment until an angel appeared with a drawn sword and threatened him with destruction if he did not proceed. Kimball framed this not as indulgence, but as reluctant obedience. 3. Brigham Young Brigham Young consistently testified that plural marriage was introduced by Joseph Smith under extraordinary divine compulsion, not personal desire. Young stated that Joseph: Found the principle abhorrent at first Attempted to avoid it Finally complied only after angelic enforcement Young explicitly referenced the drawn sword motif in multiple sermons. 4. Mary Elizabeth Rollins Lightner (plural wife) Lightner gave a detailed autobiographical account stating that Joseph told her: An angel appeared to him The angel held a drawn sword He was commanded to enter plural marriage or face destruction Her account is among the most detailed and consistent first-person recollections. 5. William Clayton (Joseph Smith’s secretary) Clayton recorded in his journals that Joseph told him: He was commanded by an angel The commandment was not optional Severe consequences were attached to refusal Clayton was present when the 1843 revelation (now Doctrine and Covenants 132) was dictated. Canonical LDS Context Doctrine and Covenants 132 While D&C 132 does not explicitly mention an angel with a sword, it repeatedly emphasizes: Divine command Severe consequences for disobedience The principle being restored through Joseph Smith specifically The angelic enforcement narrative functions as historical context, not canonized text. Scholarly and Institutional Consensus Importantly, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints does not deny this claim. Modern Church historians and official publications acknowledge that: Joseph Smith taught that plural marriage was commanded by God He resisted the commandment Angelic visitation was part of his explanation for proceeding The Church refrains from dramatizing the image but does not reject its historicity. Important Clarifications The angel is never named in surviving accounts. The language “with a sword” appears consistently, sometimes phrased as “drawn sword.” The experience is described as coercive, not persuasive. No contemporary, hostile source invented the story; it comes from insiders defending the practice. Summary Judgment Yes. According to multiple independent LDS historical sources, Joseph Smith taught that an angel with a drawn sword commanded him to practice plural marriage and threatened him with destruction if he did not comply. This claim: Is early Is consistent Comes from participants and witnesses Is acknowledged (though not emphasized) by modern LDS scholarship Karen should ask chatGPT!

What are your thoughts? Karen isn't the only one, there is another gal too, Michelle Stone, but not sure if Michelle was x'd, she relented and took down some podcasts. And many more out there that don't believe Joseph Smith lived polygamy. I listened to the Inside Out podcast last night and this morning. https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/a-conversation-with-karen-hyatt/id1682941294?i=1000741157141 The polygamy thing is what took me into inactivity when finding out JS lived polygamy, and the way he did, in my mid forties. It changed my life to learn of this and sent me down the rabbit hole. It's strange how these women don't believe the given polygamist wives' testimonies in a court of law, such as the Reed Smoot hearings, or don't seem to mention it. Could they be oblivious? https://wheatandtares.org/2018/02/04/the-reed-smoot-hearings/ Karen thinks the church should change the narrative of Joseph Smith living polygamy in church history. She thinks just like the ban on blacks getting the Priesthood, polygamy came from Brigham Young. She thinks now that the church is calling that a racist thing now, BY's teachings, the same should go for JS's polygamy just being a teaching of BY. Karen has a movie and a book she made and wrote, and she's gone to several leaders to get the news out and shared these items with leaders at the top. Does Karen have a leg to stand on? I'm not sure. Found this YouTube, that might help give context. https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/a-conversation-with-karen-hyatt/id1682941294?i=1000741157141

Go with your heart and soul, say exactly what you'd be happy with. I hope they don't ask, therefore you won't be in the position. I'm sorry for your loss it's not easy and so painful, I'm sure. So happy your wife is going to be okay! ❤️

I was researching a few days ago on which vehicle feels like you're going slower than you are on the highways and one of the vehicles they listed was the Outback! And I believe Lexus was also on the list. And some high end European vehicles. Thanks for the information about your Outback too, and thinking I will have to adjust to these newer safety devices on vehicles now.

Thanks for the comments. Looking at the Subaru Outback, not too sure.

I should have added, it was when he became the prophet that I grew to admire him/like/love him. Not sure if it was the mantle he was given, or just me, that changed. But really, the years of listening to his great talks too. And like Sister Kimball, I really liked Sister Hinckley, they were darling! I agree with you on what you've said here as well!!

Thanks bluebell!!

Pres Hinckley, although I had to warm up to him gradually.

I have a little dilemma, that is huge to me. I've been driving a 2009 Honda CRV and on the highway it feels like I'm going super fast, very noisy and shakes a little at certain speeds. I've driven it for over 5 years. I love Honda's and didn't want a car payment, liked it on sight and bought it, but now have come to this cross road in my life of not liking it at all for that one reason. I have anxiety on the freeways and thought it had something to do with my thyroid. But had a bad experience with the vehicle before the Honda in a snowstorm and my wipers weren't functioning and was trying to drive on the freeway all the while reaching out and trying to get the wipers free of compacted snow, it nearly did me in. So now I'm asking for help, don't dare do it on FB because I'm a little embarrassed but feel safe asking here. What vehicles do you drive or do you have knowledge of a vehicle that feels like they're going slower than they really are. Those vehicles that people drive on the freeway/highway and they look down at the speedometer and realize they're going ninety and need to slow down. My vehicle, they'd know it! Thanks in advance for any suggestions on vehicles. I need to buy one before I'm totally afraid. I read recently an article that said it could be a sign of dementia when people choose not to drive at high speeds. Also, it could be that the freeway/highway is so bad because the state you live in was rated 2nd worst speeders in the nation, haha. Thanks in advance for your suggestions.

I hadn't realized this. Something going on there, it seems.

I feel sorry for his wife and kids, that's a terrible stain on their names, but hopefully it won't affect them just him!!

Hoping your retirement is enjoyable and healthy going forward!!

Went to see Zootopia 2 with my grandchildren. Highly recommend!!

Tim is taking after a certain current president. The ability to lie enough that people believe it.

It ate through