teddyaware

Read and ponder the Book of Revelation and then ask yourself once again if the God of the New Testament isn’t the very same God as the one found in the Old Testament?

Doctrine and Covenants 76 testifies that by the time of the final judgement all but those found on the left hand of God (the sons of perdition) will confess on bended knee before the Father that Jesus Christ is Lord and receive forgiveness. But by the Lord’s own words of explanation, the following verses from Doctrine and Covenants Section 19 reveal a previously hidden mystery pertaining to those who will be found on the left hand of God at the final judgement. 4 And surely every man must repent or suffer, for I, God, am endless. 5 Wherefore, I revoke not the judgments which I shall pass, but woes shall go forth, weeping, wailing and gnashing of teeth, yea, to those who are found on my left hand. 6 Nevertheless, it is not written that there shall be no end to this torment, but it is written endless torment. 7 Again, it is written eternal damnation; wherefore it is more express than other scriptures, that it might work upon the hearts of the children of men, altogether for my name’s glory. What I get out of verses 6 and 7 is that the Lord employs the dire expressions ‘endless torment’ and ‘endless damnation’ in order to put the fear of God into his rebellious and easily swayed children. But the fact is that verse 6 strongly suggests that the torment of those found on God’s left hand will in some undisclosed way eventually come to an end. And then the following verses from Doctrine and Covenants 76 warn us that there’s nobody on earth who knows all the intricacies and details pertaining to the plan of salvation. So at best all we can really say is we don’t know. 113 This is the end of the vision which we saw, which we were commanded to write while we were yet in the Spirit. 114 But great and marvelous are the works of the Lord, and the mysteries of his kingdom which he showed unto us, which surpass all understanding in glory, and in might, and in dominion; 115 Which he commanded us we should not write while we were yet in the Spirit, and are not lawful for man to utter; 116 Neither is man capable to make them known, for they are only to be seen and understood by the power of the Holy Spirit, which God bestows on those who love him, and purify themselves before him; 117 To whom he grants this privilege of seeing and knowing for themselves; (Doctrine and Covenants 76)

For me, what it all distills down to is this: forever is a very long time for a beloved son or daughter of God to have to remain permanently stuck in a spiritual rut due too something that happened 10 billion earth years ago. Talk about forgiving but not forgetting! “All the minds and spirits that God ever sent into the world are susceptible of enlargement.” (Joseph Smith)

Doctrine and Covenants 76 reveals that ministers from the terrestrial kingdom and angels from the celestial kingdom minister to the inheritors of the telestial kingdom of glory, and that Christ himself personally ministers to the inheritors of the terrestrial kingdom of glory. Further, our Bible Dictionary defines ministering as “conducting the work necessary for the salvation of mankind.” In light of these doctrinal truths, why do ordained and empowered ministers from higher kingdoms of glory minister to and instruct the inhabitants of lower kingdoms of glory if there is no possibility for those in the lower kingdoms to eventually learn how to comply with the laws pertaining to higher kingdoms of glory, especially if the gospel of repentance continues to be the primary means provided by the Lord to facilitate spiritual growth and improvement? Surely you don’t believe said ministering is conducted in order to rub faces in past failures?

There are believed to be about 100 sextillion planets in the observable universe. For some reason God makes lots and lots and lots of planets. There is no paucity of planets in God’s creation. If there is a God, it seems unlikely that he would bother to create 100 sextillion planets without having some wise and wonderful reason for doing so.

Among the sacred promises made to the faithful in the Book of Revelation is found the right to be crowned and enthroned as eternal heavenly kings, royal priests who are empowered to rule nations with a rod of iron while seated upon the very throne of God. Is it more reasonable to believe that these holy promises are going to find their fulfillment on planets like our own, or does it make more sense that God will reject the idea of planets, even though he made and populated this one, and that the promises will be fulfilled while everyone is floating around in empty space? Why does it seem so silly and far fetched to believe that this world isn’t the only planet that ever has been or ever will be populated by the sons and daughters of God? 21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne. (Revelation 3) 24 That by him, and through him, and of him, the worlds are and were created, and the inhabitants thereof are begotten sons and daughters unto God. (Doctrines and Covenants 76) 54 They are they who are the church of the Firstborn. 55 They are they into whose hands the Father has given ALL things— 56 They are they who are priests and kings, who have received of his fulness, and of his glory; 57 And are priests of the Most High, after the order of Melchizedek, which was after the order of Enoch, which was after the order of the Only Begotten Son. 58 Wherefore, as it is written, they are gods even the sons of God — (Doctrines and Covenants 76)

Whenever I read and ponder the scriptures they have a powerful spiritual impact on my heart, mind and spirit due to the fact that I’m keenly aware of the fact that I’m proactively affixing a firm grip on the iron rod of the living and powerful word of God. If you’re not having similarly enlightening and empowering spiritual experience while reading the scriptures, it’s unlikely you’re going to have deeply meaningful worship experiences while in the temple or in sacrament meeting. One way to turn such spiritual lethargy around is to resolve to regularly study and ponder the scriptures and to pray mightily unto the Father that the Spirit of the Lord will be palpably present whenever you do. In addition, the time may have also come to seriously consider the need for earnest repentance in order to effectuate the process designed by our all-wise God to help his children to emerge out of their spiritual ruts. The fact that you’re admittedly feeling spiritually listless may indicate that although you’re able to honestly pass a temple recommend interview it may not mean that the time hasn’t come for you to take the initiative to do what needs to be done in order to grow more dynamically in the grace and knowledge of God. No matter how it may outwardly appear we’re doing in keeping our covenants, there’s always a tremendous amount of room for improvement as we engage with the Lord in the process of sanctification, that glorious pathway that will ultimately culminate with our enthronement as kings and queens in heaven, and thus become joint heirs with Christ in all things the he himself possesses.

It takes a special kind of paranoid whiner to be troubled by an event in which your side literally won. Even when you win you act like a victim. As if the protracted, costly and agonizing process they had to wade through wasn’t already much more than enough unjust punishment heaped on their heads for merely having the courage to take a stand by asserting their rights under the Constitution.

As you likely already realize, this discussion board is not the place for you to learn about the beliefs of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints from a faithful believer’s perspective. The problem is that there are many participants on this board who are either embittered former members who are obsessed with criticizing the church nonstop, or unbelieving non-members who are ill equipped to help you learn the teachings of the church from a faithful, spiritually inspired perspective. As I previously suggested, your best bet is to prayerfully read the Book of Mormon, and also perform deep dive research utilizing the “Libraries” option on the official church website. Another very helpful option would be to find a local congregation of the Church of Jesus Christ on Latter-Day Saints in your area where you will be warmly received and taught by faithful members. By attending church services you will not only be taking advantage of another resource to help familiarize you with the doctrines of the church, but you will also be able discern for yourself whether or not the religion of the Latter-Day Saints bears discernible good fruit in the lives of its faithful members. All the best to you in your quest for truth!

By far, the best place to start is to read and ponder the Book of Mormon with a prayerful heart and an open mind. Also, it must be said that the official website of the Church is the greatest overall resource for those who have a sincere desire to learn about the teachings of the church, including the Book of Mormon. Tap the ‘Libraries’ prompt at the top of the home page and a veritable world of discovery is waiting for you. Here’s the link: https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/?lang=eng

The reason why this debate will never have a satisfactory resolution is because the naysaying participants refuse to even consider the possibility that there is a God of miracles. The scripture are filled with sacred accounts wherein God tests the faith of his people by placing them in seemingly impossible situations where the only thing they can rely on is his word alone, while every other element with in the narrative points to the absolute impossibility of God’s promises being fulfilled. I’m sure that the Nephite apostates who were about to slaughter the Nephite believers for their refusal to give up on their “foolish” belief that the would be a day, a night and a day of continuous daylight were 100% confident that the promised miracle wouldn’t be fulfilled, yet it was. Personally, I’m equally confident that the divine authenticity of the Book of Mormon will be vindicated by God’s own mouth. It will be amazing to see the expressions on the naysayers faces when they finally come to the realization that there is a God, and that he is a God of miracles who gloriously fulfills his promises, and does so against all odds. 10 And now, my beloved brethren, and also Jew, and all ye ends of the earth, hearken unto these words and believe in Christ; and if ye believe not in these words believe in Christ. And if ye shall believe in Christ ye will believe in these words, for they are the words of Christ, and he hath given them unto me; and they teach all men that they should do good. 11 And if they are not the words of Christ, judge ye—for Christ will show unto you, with power and great glory, that they are his words, at the last day; and you and I shall stand face to face before his bar; and ye shall know that I have been commanded of him to write these things, notwithstanding my weakness. (2 Nephi 33)

The Book of Abraham in the Pearl of Great Price. 21 Now this king of Egypt was a descendant from the loins of Ham, and was a partaker of the blood of the Canaanites by birth. 22 From this descent sprang all the Egyptians, and thus the blood of the Canaanites was preserved in the land. 23 The land of Egypt being first discovered by a woman, who was the daughter of Ham, and the daughter of Egyptus, which in the Chaldean signifies Egypt, which signifies that which is forbidden; 24 When this woman discovered the land it was under water, who afterward settled her sons in it; and thus, from Ham, sprang that race which preserved the curse in the land. (Abraham 1)

If the Book of Mormon itself powerfully testifies that the one and only way anyone can gain a witness of its truthfulness is through revelation from God. That means this thread amounts to nothing more than a whirling hamster wheel of human intellect that’s doomed to provide no satisfactory answers no matter how often one mounts the wheel and how hard he feverishly pedals. The insight I’m gaining through this thread is that it appears to me there are some former believers who are secretly so worried that the Book of Mormon might actually be true that they will spare no effort in what amounts to a vain quest to quell their nagging fears. The bottom line is that scriptures testify the answers these tormented individuals so desperately seek will eventually be provided to them, but because the Book of Mormon is a sealed book (something that can only be known and understood by revelation from God) the answers they seek will ultimately be provided by God himself, and at that point it will be up to them to decide whether or not they believe the Lord is telling them the truth. But at least for now, Nephi sets forth the conditions whereby the answers the seek can be gained prior to the day of judgment. Ignore at your own risk or be doomed to endlessly trod the hamster wheel to nowhere. 17 And it came to pass after I, Nephi, having heard all the words of my father, concerning the things which he saw in a vision, and also the things which he spake by the power of the Holy Ghost, which power he received by faith on the Son of God—and the Son of God was the Messiah who should come—I, Nephi, was desirous also that I might see, and hear, and know of these things, by the power of the Holy Ghost, which is the gift of God unto all those who diligently seek him, as well in times of old as in the time that he should manifest himself unto the children of men. 18 For he is the same yesterday, today, and forever; and the way is prepared for all men from the foundation of the world, if it so be that they REPENT AND COME UNTO HIM. 19 FOR HE THAT DILIGENTLY SEEKS SHALL FIND; and the mysteries of God shall be unfolded unto them, BY THE POWER OF THE HOLY GHOST, as well in these times as in times of old, and as well in times of old as in times to come; wherefore, the course of the Lord is one eternal round. (1 Nephi 10)

An enlightening insight into that nature and purposes of God’s curses is found in Lehi’s final blessing given to the children of Laman and Lemuel shortly before his death. Remarkably,, it turns out that the curse upon the Lamanites was a blessing in disguise, designed in love to protect the descendants of Laman and Lemuel from being held responsible for the sins and rebellions of their fathers. Equally remarkable is that the fact the curse is described as a blessing upon the descendants of Laman and Lemuel in that the ultimate responsibility for the curse would rest only upon Laman and Lemuel. 3 Wherefore, after my father had made an end of speaking concerning the prophecies of Joseph, he called the children of Laman, his sons, and his daughters, and said unto them: Behold, my sons, and my daughters, who are the sons and the daughters of my firstborn, I would that ye should give ear unto my words. 4 For the Lord God hath said that: inasmuch as ye shall keep my commandments ye shall prosper in the land; and inasmuch as ye will not keep my commandments ye shall be cut off from my presence. 5 But behold, my sons and my daughters, I cannot go down to my grave save I should leave a blessing upon you; for behold, I know that if ye are brought in the way ye should go ye will not depart from it. 6 Wherefore, if ye are cursed, behold, I leave my blessing upon you, that the cursing may be taken from you and be answered upon the heads of your parents. (2 Nephi 4)

I’m perfectly confident I’ve got this right… Even if the plates were shown to the world and subjected to the most extensive testing they would be dismissed as a hoax, and rather than help the world believe the Book of Mormon is true it would severely backfire with the leaders of the church accused of being fraudsters. And I’d be willing to bet you’d very likely be one of those who’d be crying fraud. To a degenerating carnal world bound and determined to ripen in iniquity, even great miracles have no effect. A perfect example to demonstrate this point is how the Nephites ended up dismissing the miracle 36 hours of continuous daylight as a hoax.

Exactly. If the plates were presented to the world and put through extensive testing to determine if there’s a chance they’re authentic, very few would end up being convinced the Book of Mormon is true after the “experts” come to the conclusion that it’s 99.999% certain the plates are part of an elaborate hoax. Then the church would be exposed to a tsunami of extremely detrimental derision for trying to pull a fast one on the world.

After reading and sufficiently considering the implications of the following 2 verses from Doctrine and Covenants 138, I’m wondering if it’s possible to explain how anyone who’s languishing in darkness in the spirit world is ever going to be freed from the bondage of sin and be saved if they reject the preaching of the restored gospel in the spirit world? 57 I beheld that the faithful elders of this dispensation, when they depart from mortal life, continue their labors in the preaching of the gospel of repentance and redemption, through the sacrifice of the Only Begotten Son of God, among those who are in darkness and under the bondage of sin in the great world of the spirits of the dead. 58 The dead who repent will be redeemed, through obedience to the ordinances of the house of God. (Doctrine and Covenants 138)

What an wonderful tribute it is to the Prophet Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon that so many weak theories and convoluted arguments have to be conjured, amassed and compounded in never ending lame attempts to try to explain away how a 23 year old farm boy was able to produce such a profound and inspiring Christological masterpiece, a work that can truly and justly be described as “a marvelous work and wonder!” And why is it that the Book of Mormon’s doubters and naysayers never seem to be able to understand that it’s by divine design that the truthfulness of the Book of Mormon can only be ascertained by means of personal revelation from God to those who humbly and sincerely inquire of him? Nevertheless, I’m quite certain that in God’s merciful economy our present-day skeptics will eventually arrive at a point of realization when they finally understand that employing so-called scientific methods to determine the Book of Mormon’s divine authenticity amount to nothing more than hamster wheels of frustration that lead to nowhere. The things of God are known by revelation or they are not known at all.

It’s established doctrine of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saint that by the time of the final judgement all but the sons of perdition (those who utterly reject the gospel of Christ and salvation) will be saved from both physical and spiritual death through the grace and saving power of the Lord Jesus Christ. By extension, it’s therefore apparent that all men will eventually have to accept the living Christ who stands at the head of of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints if they are to receive an inheritance in one of the Father’s post-resurrection heavenly mansions of glory. My guess is that your misinformed ideas about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints are due to your “studies” being mostly confined to sources who are hostile the restored Church of Christ. 32 They are they who are the sons of perdition, of whom I say that it had been better for them never to have been born; 33 For they are vessels of wrath, doomed to suffer the wrath of God, with the devil and his angels in eternity; 34 Concerning whom I have said there is no forgiveness in this world nor in the world to come— 35 Having denied the Holy Spirit after having received it, and having denied the Only Begotten Son of the Father, having crucified him unto themselves and put him to an open shame. 36 These are they who shall go away into the lake of fire and brimstone, with the devil and his angels— 37 And the only ones on whom the second death shall have any power; 38 Yea, verily, the only ones who shall not be redeemed in the due time of the Lord, after the sufferings of his wrath. 39 For all the rest shall be brought forth by the resurrection of the dead, through the triumph and the glory of the Lamb, who was slain, who was in the bosom of the Father before the worlds were made. 40 And this is the gospel the glad tidings, which the voice out of the heavens bore record unto us— 41 That he came into the world, even Jesus, to be crucified for the world, and to bear the sins of the world, and to sanctify the world, and to cleanse it from all unrighteousness; 42 That through him ALL MIGHT BE SAVED a]whom the Father had put into his power and made by him; 43 Who glorifies the Father, and SAVES ALL THE WORKS OF HIS HANDS, except those sons of perdition who deny the Son after the Father has revealed him. (Doctrine and Covenants 76)

It’s established doctrine of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saint that by the time of the final judgement all but the sons of perdition (those who utterly reject the gospel of Christ and salvation) will be saved from both physical and spiritual death through the grace and saving power of the Lord Jesus Christ. By logical extension, it’s therefore apparent that all men will eventually have to accept the living Christ who stands at the head of of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints if they are to receive an inheritance in one of the Father’s post-resurrection mansions of heavenly glory. My guess is that your misinformed ideas about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints are due to your “studies” being mostly confined to sources that are hostile the restored Church of Christ. 32 They are they who are the sons of perdition, of whom I say that it had been better for them never to have been born; 33 For they are vessels of wrath, doomed to suffer the wrath of God, with the devil and his angels in eternity; 34 Concerning whom I have said there is no forgiveness in this world nor in the world to come— 35 Having denied the Holy Spirit after having received it, and having denied the Only Begotten Son of the Father, having crucified him unto themselves and put him to an open shame. 36 These are they who shall go away into the lake of fire and brimstone, with the devil and his angels— 37 And the only ones on whom the second death shall have any power; 38 Yea, verily, the only ones who shall not be redeemed in the due time of the Lord, after the sufferings of his wrath. 39 For all the rest shall be brought forth by the resurrection of the dead, through the triumph and the glory of the Lamb, who was slain, who was in the bosom of the Father before the worlds were made. 40 And this is the gospel the glad tidings, which the voice out of the heavens bore record unto us— 41 That he came into the world, even Jesus, to be crucified for the world, and to bear the sins of the world, and to sanctify the world, and to cleanse it from all unrighteousness; 42 That through him ALL MIGHT BE SAVED a]whom the Father had put into his power and made by him; 43 Who glorifies the Father, and SAVES ALL THE WORKS OF HIS HANDS, except those sons of perdition who deny the Son after the Father has revealed him. (Doctrine and Covenants 76)

Doesn’t his screen name tell you all you need to know? He’s upfront about the fact that he’s ‘not a true blue Mormon,” which indicates he’s more a member of record rather than a devoted member in spirit. He has an ax to grind, so he’s here to vent.

Brilliant insights! Why indeed didn’t the Lord simply teleport the Lehites and the Jaredites, along with all their life sustaining supplies, from their native lands to the American promised instead of commanding his them to engage in all that dangerous and labor intensive shipbuilding and seafaring stuff? Or why didn’t the Lord just use his miraculous power to instantaneously wipe the wicked Canaanites off the face of the earth so that the children of Israel could take a leisurely afternoon stroll into the promised land without having to engage in all that bloody and traumatic warfare? One could go on forever with endless examples that ask the same question: why didn’t the Lord simplify and streamline things to make it so much easier and less complicated instead of insisting that his people almost always have to do things the hard way? And now a final and most powerful question: why didn’t God the Father simply issue a decree declaring that all sins will be forgiven and mankind redeemed without the need for his Only Begotten Son to have to offer up a heartbreaking infinite and eternal sacrifice of unimaginable suffering? Surely there must be a more efficient way to save mankind without the need for God’s beloved Son of God to have to drink to the dregs the bitter cup of the wrath of Almighty God? The answer to these questions is as simple as it is reasonable. For their own ultimate good and eternal joy, the children of God need to have their faith painstakingly tested and refined as gold in the crucible of adversity. All the outcries and pearl clutching engaged in by the spiritually illiterate and immature will never sway God to do things in any other way than the extremely difficult and sacrificial way that they need to be done in order to bring to accomplish his purposes in bringing pass the immortality and eternal life of man. There is no other way! 16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: 17 And if children, then heirs, heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together. 18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. (Romans 8:16-16)

At the point in time that Nephi crept into the city, the majority of the inhabitants of Jerusalem were already thoroughly ripened in iniquity, and all that remained were the death throes a people laboring under the horrors of a total breakdown of law and order. One of the prime hallmarks of a society that has ripened in iniquity is when the criminals who run the corrupted ‘government’ allow their ‘guilty as sin’ friends and coconspirators to escape justice after they’ve committed the most heinous of crimes. Meanwhile the few remaining decent people who in the city were extorted, blackmailed, framed and punished for crimes they didn’t commit. There was no justice to be had in Jerusalem at the time Nephi found the murderous organized crime boss named Laban sprawled like out like a drunken fool on the ground before him. So the Lord did what he had to do. As righteous judge over his creation the Lord — not Nephi — took this matter of sorely needed justice into his own hand. There are times when the Lord employs human agents to execute his righteous judgments upon the wicked, but it’s still the Lord who’s the one to be blamed if that’s what some spiritually immature and blind individuals want to do. Not long after Nephi escaped Jerusalem with the brass plates and the sword of Laban, the Lord used the battle hardened warriors of king Nebuchadnezzar to slay and enslave the remaining inhabitants of Jerusalem after the Lehites managed to escape the sociopathic throng with their lives. Is it Nebuchadnezzar and his warriors who are to be blamed for the utter destruction of Jerusalem, the utter destruction of its temple, and the massive wave of death and enslavement that swept over the city? Or was it the Lord who employed the king of Babylon and his hosts to execute his righteous judgements upon a people that had allowed the devil to take over their lives? Why there are so many pearl clutchers who seem to be so confused and conflicted over this perfectly obvious case of right vs wrong is beyond me?

Laban was an organized crime boss who undoubtedly sent out his henchmen to murder other souls before he dispatched them to execute Nephi and his brothers. There’s not even the slightest doubt in my mind that justice required Laban’s blood. But even if he had succeeded in his murderous designs and was caught in the very act, by that time Jerusalem had so ripened in iniquity that he would have been let off the hook by his corrupt fellow criminals in the government. The day will come when those who sympathize with Laban will wonder how in the world they could have been so foolish as to jeopardize their salvation to plead the case for cold blooded thief and serial killer.

Because I have perfect confidence that God is perfectly just and merciful, and because I have perfect confidence that his love for his children is infinite and eternal, I’m certain that he has no other choice in righteousness but to administer his kingdom on earth in the way he’s been doing since the beginning. For most, it may presently seem that life on this earth is far too brutal, chaotic and unfair to imagine that anything good could possibly come out of it, but I have unshakable confidence that the way in which the Lord rules over this world is going to produce the best possible salvative outcomes for the vast majority of his children. And I’m also certain that when all the facts pertaining to the economy of God are fully known that all men (the exception being the sons of perdition) will realize and acknowledge without any reservation that the Lord has ruled his kingdom with perfect righteousness. And the Lord Jesus Christ is living proof that God doesn’t just talk the talk when it comes to the absolute necessity of having to be tested in the crucible of adversity before being able to obtain perfect heavenly freedom and happiness, for even he had to encounter and overcome the worst of it all before he was able to obtain the crown of over the kingdom. You and I have to deal with exactly the same unpleasant realities that we see all around us on this fallen world. But while I choose to have strong faith that all the challenges, injustices and sufferings we encounter in this life will paradoxically end up being enormous blessings in disguise — even heavenly portals that will ultimately lead to eternal life and endless joy — you conversely choose to believe existence is a total screwup and that there’s no logical reason for exercising any faith and hope in the possibility of good things to come. But even while you’ve apparently given up hope, I’m sure you’re generous enough to indulge me as I choose to believe in a loving and righteous God whose ultimate joy is to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man.