teddyaware

It smacks of the haughty derision and dismissiveness that the prideful, self righteous Zoramites heaped upon their poor, meanly dressed neighbors.

If God has all power in heaven and earth, and if by Christ’s own testimony “all things are possible with God;” and if we are created in God’s own image and through Jesus Christ we are made partakers of God’s own divine nature, what would prevent our Father in Heaven from earnestly desiring to make us joint heirs with Christ in the fullness of all things that he possesses, including the right to be seated upon his very throne as heavenly kings who are “filled with all the fullness of God?” And if, as the Apostle John testifies, “God is light and in him is no darkness at all,” what possible righteous motivation could God have to leave his faithful children lingering in any measure of darkness?

When the Apostle Peter testifies that the gospel was preached to the spirits of the dead who had rejected Christ and his gospel in the days of Noah, and this that they might be judged according to men in the flesh while living according to the will of God in the spirit world; and when the Apostle Paul testifies of the ordinance of baptism for the dead, and when he further reveals that in the resurrection there will be one glory likened to the brightness of the sun, a second glory likened to the brightest of the moon, and a third glory likened to the brightness of the various stars in the firmament; and when the Savior himself testifies that varying degrees of fruitfulness will be found among his believers, with some bringing forth yields of 100 fold, while others will bringing forth yields of 60 fold, and still others who will bring forth yields of 30 fold — I hereby contest validity of your conclusion and assert that the chance that Peter, Paul and the Lord didn’t know about the the more expansive and inclusive plan of salvation of the dead accepted by the Latter-Day Saints are fractionally less than one. And when one adds into the equation the verity that God is a perfect Being of infinite and eternal love, compassion, kindness, long suffering, empathy, justice and mercy,- the chances that Peter, Paul and the Lord were unaware of the same glorious plan of salvation presently found in Doctrine and Covenants Sections 76, 88, 128, 137 and 138 are zero. The only way to believe otherwise is to either deny the existence of God or accept the unsettling possibility that for some unfathomable reason God doesn’t feel bound to practice what he preaches.

A response from the Apostle Orson Pratt: IMMATERIALISTS ARE ATHEISTS There are two classes of Atheists in the world. One class denies the existence of God in the most positive language: the other denies his existence in duration or space. One says, ‘There is no God;’ the other says, ‘God is not here or there, any more than he exists now and then.’ The infidel says, God does not exist anywhere. The Immaterialist says, ‘He exists nowhere.’ The infidel says, There is no such substance as God. The Immaterialist says, There is such a substance as God, but it is ‘without parts.’ The atheist says, There is no such substance as Spirit. The Immaterialist says, ‘A spirit, though he lives and acts, occupies no room, and fills no space, in the same way and in the same manner as matter, not even so much as does the minutest grain of sand.’ The Atheist does not seek to hide his infidelity: but the Immaterialist, whose declared belief amounts to the same thing as the Atheist’s, endeavors to hide his infidelity under the shallow covering of a few words. …Nothing, and nothing only, is a representative of that which has no relation to space or time—that is, unextended, indivisible, and without parts. Therefore, the Immaterialist is a religious Atheist; he only differs from the other class of Atheists, by clothing an indivisible unextended NOTHING with the powers of a god. One class believes in no God; the other believes that NOTHING is god, and worships it as such. There is no twisting away from this. The most profound philosopher in all the ranks of modern Christianity, cannot extricate the Immaterialists from atheism. He cannot show the least difference between the idea represented by the word nothing, and the idea represented by that which is unextended, indivisible, and without parts, having no relation to space or time. All the philosophers of the universe could not give a better or more correct definition of Nothing. And yet this is the god worshipped by the Church of England—the Methodists—and millions of other atheistical idolators, according to their own definitions, as recorded in their respective articles of faith. An open Atheist is not so dangerous as the Atheist who couches his atheistical doctrines under the head of ‘ARTICLES OF RELIGION.’ The first stands out with open colours, and boldly avows his infidelity; the latter, under the sacred garb of religion, draws into his yawning vortex, the unhappy millions who are persuaded to believe in, and worship an unextended indivisible nothing without parts, deified into a god. A pious Atheist is much more serviceable in building up the kingdom of darkness than one who openly, and without any deception, avows his infidelity…. There is no more absurdity in calling Nothing a substance, and clothing it with Almighty powers, than there is in making a substance out of that which is precisely like nothing, and imagining it to have Almighty powers. Therefore, an immaterial god is a deified Nothing, and all his worshippers are atheistic idolaters. Orson Pratt, Absurdities of Immaterialism (Liverpool, 1849), 11-12

As the mighty angel who was the Apostle John’s personal guide while he experienced the vision that became the Book of Revelation testified, “… the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.” Therefore in spite of the inclusive perspectives elucidated by the Prophet Alma and Orson F Whitney in my previous post, it’s quite literally impossible to be a prophet of God without first having a strong and abiding testimony of the Lord Jesus Christ, bestowed through the outpouring of the Holy Ghost. Nevertheless this verity doesn't at all negate the fact that what Orson F Whitney said is also true! The Lord does indeed send forth men unto the nations of the world who are knowingly or unknowingly inspired by the light of Christ to prepare the way for him to accomplish his great purposes, the work of the United States’ Founding Fathers being a perfect case in point. 4 For, for this intent have we written these things, that they may know that we knew of Christ, and we had a hope of his glory many hundred years before his coming; and not only we ourselves had a hope of his glory, but also ALL the holy prophets which were before us. 5 Behold, they believed in Christ and worshiped the Father in his name, and also we worship the Father in his name. And for this intent we keep the law of Moses, it pointing our souls to him; and for this cause it is sanctified unto us for righteousness, even as it was accounted unto Abraham in the wilderness to be obedient unto the commands of God in offering up his son Isaac, which is a similitude of God and his Only Begotten Son.

5 Yea, and I know that good and evil have come before all men; he that knoweth not good from evil is blameless but he that knoweth good and evil, to him it is given according to his desires, whether he desireth good or evil, life or death, joy or remorse of conscience. 6 Now, seeing that I know these things, why should I desire more than to perform the work to which I have been called? 7 Why should I desire that I were an angel, that I could speak unto all the ends of the earth? 8 For behold, the Lord doth grant unto all nations, of their own nation and tongue to teach his word, yea, in wisdom, all that hs seeth fit that they should have; therefore we see that the Lord doth counsel in wisdom, according to that which is just and true. (Alma 9) “Many beautiful lessons might be drawn from this passage (Alma 29:1-9) of scripture, but I have only time to dwell upon one. It tells me that Providence is over all, and that he holds the nations in the hollow of his hand; that he is using not only his covenant people, but other peoples as well, to consummate a work, stupendous, magnificent, and altogether too arduous for this little handful of Saints to accomplish by and of themselves. Alma seems to have thought, for the moment, that man was doing God's work for him, instead of which it is God, who is doing his own work, and using men as his instruments. Nor is he limited in the choice of instruments to his own people. He sways the scepter over all nations, and they are all playing into his hands, knowingly or unknowingly. Alma knew this, but had momentarily lost sight of it. All down the ages men bearing the authority of the Holy Priesthood -- patriarchs, prophets, apostles and others, have officiated in the name of the Lord, doing the things that he required of them; and outside the pale of their activities other good and great men, not bearing the Priesthood, but possessing profundity of thought, great wisdom, and a desire to uplift their fellows, have been sent by the Almighty into many nations, to give them, not the fulness of the Gospel, but that portion of truth that they were able to receive and wisely use. Such men as Confucius, the Chinese philosopher; Zoroaster, the Persian sage; Gautama or Buddha, of the Hindus; Socrates and Plato, of the Greeks; these all had some of the light that is universally diffused, and concerning which we have this day heard. They were servants of the Lord in a lesser sense, and were sent to those pagan or heathen nations to give them the measure of truth that a wise Providence had allotted to them.” (Orson F. Whitney, Conference Report, Apr. 1921, pp. 32-33)

In these latter-days, the doctrines of the restored gospel of Jesus Christ were revealed line upon line. precept upon precept, in increasingly greater and greater detail until a much more complete picture of God’s merciful and glorious plan of salvation was revealed. As a very significant event in that unfolding process, the Lord Jesus Christ revealed Doctrine and Covenants 76 so as to provide a much more complete understanding of God’s plan of salvation than the rudimentary presentation found in Mosiah 15. Through Doctrine and Covenants 76’s more expansive revelation of God’s designs, we learn that all but the sons of perdition (those who utterly refuse to accept Jesus Christ as their Savior) will obtain salvation in one of God’s glorious post-resurrection heavenly kingdoms. But if it makes you happier to believe that God is going to send the majority of his created human family to an endless hell of unimaginable torment and suffering, who am I to deprive you of your peace of mind? 32 They are they who are the sons of perdition, of whom I say that it had been better for them never to have been born; 33 For they are vessels of wrath, doomed to suffer the wrath of God, with the devil and his angels in eternity; 34 Concerning whom I have said there is no forgiveness in this world nor in the world to come— 35 Having denied the Holy Spirit after having received it, and having denied the Only Begotten Son of the Father, having crucified him unto themselves and put him to an open shame. 36 These are they who shall go away into the lake of fire and brimstone, with the devil and his angels— 37 And the only ones on whom the second death shall have any power; 38 Yea, verily, the only ones who shall not be redeemed in the due time of the Lord, after the sufferings of his wrath. 39 For all the rest shall be brought forth by the resurrection of the dead, through the triumph and the glory of the Lamb, who was slain, who was in the bosom of the Fatherbeforethe worlds were made. 40 And this is the gospel, the glad tidings, which the voice out of the heavens bore record unto us— 41 That he came into the world, even Jesus, to be crucified for the world, and to bear the sins of the world, and to sanctify the world, and to cleanse it from all unrighteousness; 42 That through him all might be saved whom the Father had put into his power and made by him; (Doctrine and Covenants 76)

Your carnal mind can whistle past the graveyard as much as it wants, but it’s inevitable that you will eventually come to believe, and you will do so willingly and gratefully. There is only one way to escape this inexorable foreordained outcome, and that is to utterly reject Christ and his salvation and thus become a son of perdition. 31 Thus saith the Lord concerning all those who know my power, and have been made partakers thereof, and suffered themselves through the power of the devil to be overcome, and to deny the truth and defy my power— 32 They are they who are the sons of perdition of whom I say that it had been better for them never to have been born; 33 For they are vessels of wrath, doomed to suffer the wrath of God, with the devil and his angels in eternity; 34 Concerning whom I have said there is no forgiveness in this world nor in the world to come— 35 Having denied the Holy Spirit after having received it, and having denied the Only Begotten Son of the Father, having crucified him unto themselves and put him to an open shame. 36 These are they who shall go away into the lake of fire and brimstone, with the devil and his angels— 37 And the only ones on whom the second death shall have any power; 38 Yea, verily, the only ones who shall not be redeemed in the due time of the Lord, after the sufferings of his wrath. 39 For all the rest shall be brought by the resurrection of the dead, through the triumph and the glory of the Lamb, who was slain, who was in the bosom of the Father before the worlds were made. 40 And this is the gospel, the glad tidings which the voice out of the heavens bore record unto us— 41 That he came into the world, even Jesus, to be crucified for the world, and to bear the sins of the world, and to sanctify the world, and to cleanse it from all unrighteousness; 42 That through him all might be saved whom the Father had put into his power and made by him; (Doctrine and Covenants 76)

I’ve often wondered what kind of underlying psychological undercurrents would cause critical nonmembers of the church to obsessively participate on this discussion board, spending significant amounts of their precious time endlessly nitpicking away at minute details of the doctrines of the church when it would seem there are much healthier and productive ways for them to spend their time? I believe one possible explanation for this obsessive behavior is they know in their hearts the doctrines of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints combine to form a much more logical, cohesive and reasonable system of belief than do the teachings their own religions, but because they appear to have a strong emotional need to not believe the restored church of Christ is true they repeatedly come back to the board in a never ending quest to persuade themselves to disbelieve what their heart is telling them is true. For example, you’d think a reasonable believer in Christ would be thrilled beyond measure to learn that God has established a great missionary program to assure that the gospel is preached to all the dead in order to assure that the wonderful blessings of salvation will be fully and completely extended to all who have ever lived on the earth? But instead of rejoicing in the glorious knowledge that God really is a God of perfect love, and that his infinite and eternal love powerfully motivates him to assure that every single one of his beloved children will have a more than fair and thorough opportunity to learn the gospel of Jesus Christ and receive of his salvation, they instead feverishly try to find reasons to disbelieve that God is as wonderful loving, compassionate as the Latter-Day Saints say be is because, for whatever reasons, admitting that they’re wrong is too painful and devastating for them to bear. The other possibility is that even thought their minds are somewhat resistant, it could be that they’re here because their spirits are trying to break through the mists of darkness that are clouding their thoughts.

Verse 57 asserts that the faithful elders (the missionaries) of the present dispensation are also called to preach the gospel to dead, not just the prophets. 57 I beheld that the faithful elders of this dispensation, when they depart from mortal life, continue their labors in the preaching of the gospel of repentance and redemption, through the sacrifice of the Only Begotten Son of God, among those who are in darkness and under the bondage of sin in the great world of the spirits of the dead. (Doctrine and Covenants 138)

Thank’s manol! It’s good to know that some here are kindly disposed to me in spite of my excessively blunt and abrasive style. But in reality I was once an aspiring comedy writer, so I’m lots more fun in person that I appear to be when commenting on this board. Merry Christmas!

Yes, she’s off camera but dressed in spotless white to symbolically serve as angelic counterpoint to my dark dress that suggests I’m a denizen of the dark side.

A very Merry Christmas ro all my Mormon Dialogue and Discussion Board friends and enemies!

The reason why the Lord said Adam is many is because every fallen world on which men and women are sent to be proved in the crucible of adversity requires an Adam, or first man. Further, the reason why you don’t see the clarity of doctrine manifested in the succeeding verses is primarily due to the fact that, by your own admission, you don’t believe the Book of Moses is the word of God. Living faith is required before revelation from the Holy Ghost can imbue clarity of understanding. God’s ways cannot be understood by a resistant, carnal mind. At any rate, the following 2 verses also make it abundantly clear that the Only Begotten Son of the Father is the creator of the worlds spoken of in Moses 1, and that inhabitants of the worlds that are populated are the begotten spiritual sons and daughters of God. There’s only one way that any man can obtain salvation and find true and lasting peace and happiness, and that is only in and through Christ. God’s work and glory is to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man, a mighty endeavor that can only come to fruition through the work of a redeeming Savior. 23 For we saw him, even on the right hand of God; and we heard the voice bearing record that he is the Only Begotten of the Father 24 That by him, and through him, and of him, the worlds are and were created, and the inhabitants thereof are begotten sons and daughters unto God. (Doctrine and Covenants 76)

But the fact of the matter is that in Moses 1 the Lord reveals some significant information to Moses about the other worlds that contradicts the idea that he revealed nothing at all. I will place in bold and CAPITALS the pertinent portions… 32 And by the word of my power, have I created them, which is mine Only Begotten Son, who is full of grace and truth. 33 And worlds without number have I created; and I also created them for mine own purpose; AND BY THE SON I CREATED THEM, WHICH IS MINE ONLY BEGOTTEN. 34 And the first man of all men have I called Adam, which is many. 35 But only an account of this earth, and the inhabitants thereof, give I unto you. For behold, there are many worlds THAT HAVE PASSED AWAY BY THE WORD OF MY POWER (i.e. by the Son). And there are many that now stand, and innumerable are they unto man; but all things are numbered unto me, for they are mine and I know them. 36 And it came to pass that Moses spake unto the Lord, saying: Be merciful unto thy servant, O God, and tell me concerning this earth, and the inhabitants thereof, and also the heavens, and then thy servant will be content. 37 And the Lord God spake unto Moses, saying: The heavens, they are many, and they cannot be numbered unto man; but they are numbered unto me, for they are mine. 38 And as one earth shall pass away, and the heavens thereof even so shall another come; and there is no end to MY WORKS, neither to my words. 39 For behold, this is MY WORK and my glory—to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man. (Moses 1) At least to me, the profound disclosures made in the above verses make it quite clear that what has gone on and is going on in the other worlds is precisely the same thing that’s going on in this world — God the Father bringing to pass the immortality and eternal life of men and women, who dwell on an endless number of worlds, through the infinite and eternal atoning and redeeming power of his Only Begotten Son. Therefore the key to know what’s going on in the other worlds is to simply observe, through the enlightening lens of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the things that are going on in this world.

He’s wondering why a strict literal reading of the quoted verses appear to indicate that it’s only the deceased prophets who were given the assignment to preach the gospel to the dead. But due to the fact that telnetd doesn’t understand how the organization of the restored church of Christ works, he doesn’t realize that after prophets are called and assigned that they are almost always expected to call others to assist them in the accomplishment of their assignments. As experienced and knowledgeable Latter-Day Saints, it’s second nature for us to understand that one of the primary duties of the Lord’s prophets is to call and delegate authority to fellow laborers in order to assist them in the effective and fruitful execution of their labors.

Very Simple! Just as it is here on earth, the presiding prophets assigned by the Lord to oversee the missionary work in the spirit world are given power and authority by God to not only teach but also to call, instruct and organize other missionaries beside themselves to preach the gospel of Jesus Christ to the spirits of the dead. When the Lord called his inspired apostles at the start of his ministry in the holy land, the church consisted of an intimate core of very few empowered disciples, but as time went on the Book of Acts bears witness to the fact the membership of the church eventually greatly increased, with far more missionaries assigned to teach the gospel than the original core quorum of twelve apostles who stood at the head of the church in its infancy. It’s pure common sense! Apostles and prophets of God are authorized and empowered to expand the ranks of the church and delegate some of their assignments to others that all the members of the church may become full and productive participants within the body of Christ. Simply put, authorized prophets of God have the power and right to call, organize and to also delegate some of their sacred duties to the ranks of God’s holy army.

In the above quote, President Young’s counsel to the saints is that they need to receive confirmatory personal revelation from God in order to know for certain that the prophets and apostles are leading the members aright, and that by receiving said confirmatory revelation the members are much better able to properly sustain the church leaders in their indispensable roles as prophets, seers and revelators. President Young is most definitely not instructing the members of the church that they need to learn how to “go it alone” without looking to the leaders of the church for the essential contemporary guidance they need in order to more effectively serve God and keep his commandments. I can see how a careless and perfunctory analysis of President Young’s words might cause someone to erroneously conclude that personal revelation obviates the need for prophetic guidance from those who stand at the head of the church, but President Young is actually teaching something that’s diametrically opposite to a “Lone Ranger” approach to gospel living.

I believe one of the main reasons why a fair number of members are struggling with the church’s history of plural marriage is due to the fact that they are carnally minded. The spiritually darkened and muddled thought processes of the carnal mind make it nigh unto impossible for anyone to even imagine it’s possibile that plural marriage can be practiced in holiness by men and women who possess great spiritual strength, insight and wisdom. As a consequence of being unable to accept the word of God as plainly set forth in Doctrine and Covenants 132, the spiritual foundations of some of the these carnally minded individuals are already beginning to crack and crumble under the weight of unbelief, greatly increasing the likelihood that they will falter when the prophesied sever persecutions of the last days are unleashed by the adversary. Simply put, plural marriage is a divinely ordained Abrahamic test of faith for those who were commanded to practice it, and it’s another kind Abrahamic test of faith for the members of the Church who now view the unpopular and misunderstood principle from our present-day vantage point. Sadly, it appears likely that some will fail the test and falter in their testimonies because their carnal minds prevent the from understanding that plural marriage can indeed be practiced in wholesomeness and purity by those who are well on the way to being sanctified. The main problem is that too many members fail to realize that God has always commanded his people to do very difficult and even seemingly impossible things as part of the fiery refining process that’s wisely designed to purify our souls and prepare us for greater happiness. And since it’s inevitable that some will kick against the pricks, so be it… 1) Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled. (Titus 1:15)

The Apostle Paul testifies that within the corporeal body of the resurrected Lord Jesus Christ dwells “all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.”This powerfully attests to the reality that the resurrected corporeal body of Jesus Christ doesn’t hinder nor diminish from the infinite and eternal fulness of his Godhood in any way. To me, the fact that Christ has a resurrected material body actually makes him superior to the Father in some ways, at least insofar as the enjoyment of his existence is concerned. Is say this because the corporeal body of Jesus Christ makes it possible for him to enjoy a wider breadth of experience than the Father is able to enjoy, for if the Father is immaterial there’s a whole wondrous realm of existence that the Father is unable to fully participate in and enjoy. The Catholic and Protestant God the Father is unable to participate in the experiences that can only be enjoyed when a spirit is clothed with a corporeal body. Consider: Due to the fact that Christ has a body he’s quite literally able to physically embrace the embodied sons and daughters of God in his holy arms, and tell them he loves them with audible words spoken from his mouth, something the Catholic and Protestant God the Father is unable do because he is immaterial, ineffable and “totally other.” If possessing a corporeal body doesn’t diminish the Godhead of Jesus Christ one iota, while enabling him to fully function as a living personage within the material realm, one has to wonder why the Father wouldn’t want to enjoy having a physical body as well? ‘For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.” (Colossians 2:9)

Try the new 70 ton M1A2 SEPv4 Abrams Tank. Even if there is an accident, all the other cars will just bounce off!

He thought he’d be able to dupe the church leaders because his personal background story is so “fascinating” (a former Muslim and such), and because he esteems himself an engaging, lively and animated public speaker, unlike the usual dry, lowkey and “boring” guys he says usually speak in church.

I’ll repeat myself: If Tim Ballard is indeed guilty, the aggressive legal actions he’s taking against his accusers will almost certainly backfire and expose his criminality. The man is passionately bound and determined to have every piece of evidence brought to light, disclosed, and exposed for all the world to see. Consequently, I’ve come to the conclusion that he’s either convinced of his own innocence or he’s criminally insane. If he is ultimately exonerated, his big mistake was thinking it was a good idea to recruit women who were too emotionally delicate to convincingly play the role of the most extreme kinds of sexual perverts without realizing that they could end up being psychologically traumatized and extremely resentful that he convinced them to degrade and humiliate themselves in pursuit of a “higher good.”

If Tim Ballard’s lawyer Mark Eisenhut is telling the truth in the following video, in which he presents the same evidence he used in court to successfully get Celeste Borys’ case against Ballard dismissed, it appears the case against Ballard as a sexual preditor may not be as cut and dried as many believe it to be. Ballard’s accuser Borys appears to be a prime example of an inconsistent and conflicted witness who utterly lacks credibility. The question is, among all of Ballard’s other accusers is Celeste Borys a lone dishonest outlier who was looking to cash in while Ballard’s other accusers are telling the truth about the “couples ruse,” or will it turn out that the rest of Ballard’s accusers are just as inconsistent, dishonest and money grubbing as Borys appears to be. Time will tell because by Ballard’s own zealous initiative this is all going to be exhaustively aired out and litigated in courts of law. If Ballard actually is guilty, his determined hard court press to bring all things pertinent to the accusations made against him to light has got to to be one of the most wrongheaded and foolhardy strategies ever conceived and executed by the human mind!

The thing I find fascinating is how there seem to be so many members who are so uncomfortable with sex, especially the unsettling thought that there actually might be sex in heaven, that procreation, the most basic and fundamental biological function that determines whether someone is male or female, is tossed out the window and the resurrected sex organs are relegated to being nothing more than useless vestigial organs that will just sit there forever and serve no perfected function. Why not just be resurrected with anatomically incorrect bodies, like Barbie and Ken, rather than have to spend all eternity encumbered with goofy looking vestigial organs that serve no purpose? To me, this is another perfect example of how some who are able to see are still unable to see.