teddyaware

Though with so little information it’s impossible to generalize, I would say that the sins would stack up differently if the church goer’s church attendance is indicative of a measure of faith unto repentance and a fighting spirit that’s striving to overcome his weaknesses. For instance, in my opinion the tobacco addicted church convert who keeps trying to give up his habit but stumbles is more justified before God than the church convert who tried to quit once but then gave up the fight. To the casual observer the sin looks the same, but there’s a world of difference between the man who keeps on battling to overcome his addiction and the one who loses all hope and surrenders to his addiction.

The best explanation I’ve heard as to why so many Christians would rather embrace the God who unjustly consigns the vast majority of humanity to an endless hell of unimaginable suffering is because they’re unwittingly suffering from a cosmic form of Stockholm Syndrome. Better to obsequiously cower before and praise the almighty monster who’s somehow able to turn his back his own “beloved” creatures and abandon them to endless sorrow than to end up another one of the billions of his victims.

The all important divine principle that’s missing from your sour, limited and pessimistic outlook is a clear understanding that God is a perfectly loving, just and merciful being. The God of heaven is morally bound by eternal law to ultimately bring justice and mercy into perfect alignment in the lives of each one of his spirit children. No one is cheated or left behind. God’s omniscient mind and omnipotent power are fully able to assure that each individual will have an equal chance to obtain salvation and exaltation in the end. Even though for now things may seem unfair and chaotic, in the long run there won’t be a single individual at the time of the final judgement who will be able to rightly say that they were treated unfairly. In fact, God’s plan of salvation is so perfect that in the end the spirit sons and daughters of God will only have themselves to blame if they are ultimately relegated to inherit a heavenly kingdom of glory that’s lower than the highest degree of glory in the celestial kingdom. And while I understand that there’s a certain kind of emotional satisfaction that comes to those who ignorantly cry out that it’s all so unfair, in the end these bellyachers will be constrained by their own convicted consciences to confess that there’s nothing arbitrary nor unfair in God’s perfectly just, comprehensive and all encompassing plan of salvation! 30 But behold, from among the righteous, he organized his forces and appointed messengers, clothed with power and authority, and commissioned them to go forth and carry the light of the gospel to them that were in darkness, even to all the spirits of men; and thus was the gospel preached to the dead. 31 And the chosen messengers went forth to declare the acceptable day of the Lord and proclaim liberty to the captives who were bound, even unto all who would repent of their sins and receive the gospel. 32 Thus was the gospel preached to those who had died in their sins, without a knowledge of the truth, or in transgression, having rejected the prophets. (Doctrine and Covenants 138)

Just as the unrepentant and rebellious will be destroyed in the flesh at the time of the Second Coming, thereby forfeiting the opportunity they might have had to joyfully greet the Lord at his coming and be personally instructed at his hand, so too the unrepentant spirits who were confined to the spirit prison at the time of Christ’s mInistry to the spirit world were similarly unprepared to be ministered to by the Lord due to the spiritual blindness and rebellious attitudes that had rendered them unworthy and unfit to be able to enjoy the Lord’s personal presence and teaching. Just as it is here on earth where converts to the Lord are taught by authorized servants to help prepare them for the blessed day when they will be more fully worthy to meet the Lord in person, the inhabitants of the spirit prison who repent and are converted to the Lord are also in a preparatory state to help them get ready for the blessed day when they will be worthy to meet the Lord in person and receive further instruction on how to grow spiritually that they might know the way to enjoy even greater spiritual communion with the Father. Pure common sense.

If those believers in Christ who overcome the world by faith are “made partakers of the divine nature,” so much so that they become “the sons of God” and “joint heirs with Christ” in all things that he himself possesses, even to the point that they will be crowned kings in heaven entrusted with the scepter of divine authority, and also the most extraordinary right to be seated upon the very throne of Christ’s holy dominion and power, therefore in what remaining ways will these exalted individuals still not measure up to “the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ?” And please refrain from claiming that we Latter-Day believe we will eventually supplant Christ and that he will no longer be our God because that false notion is most definitely NOT what we believe! So in what specific ways will those who are enthroned as the sons of God not inherit all things that Christ himself possesses? Again, please be very specific as to which specific divine attributes those who overcome the world will still be found lacking?

Most Latter-Day Saints are unaware of the fact that the church acknowledges t=there are instances in the scriptures when the sacred name Jehovah is applied to God the Father. Psalms 110:1 provides a perfect example of when this occurs: 1) The LORD (Jehovah) said unto my Lord (Christ), Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstools. (Psalms 110) ‘Many members may be surprised to learn that the Latter-Day Saint Bible’s Topical Guide includes a reference section under the heading “God the Father, Jehovah,” and another reference section under the heading “Jesus Christ, Jehovah.” Included under the heading “God the Father, Jehovah,” are also verses that speak of Christ as being the Father of Heaven and Earth and the Father of our salvation. From the Topical Guide… God the Father, Jehovah See also Godhead; God the Father, Elohim; Jesus Christ, Jehovah; Witness of the Father my God … my father’s God, Ex. 15:2. Lord God of Israel our father, 1 Chr. 29:10. father of the fatherless … is God, Ps. 68:5. his name shall be called … The mighty God, The everlasting Father, Isa. 9:6 (2 Ne. 19:6). thou, O Lord, art our father, Isa. 63:16. My father, thou art the guide of my youth, Jer. 3:4. I am a father to Israel, Jer. 31:9. in Christ Jesus I have begotten you, 1 Cor. 4:15. will be a Father unto you … saith the Lord, 2 Cor. 6:18. Christ was the God, the Father of all things, Mosiah 7:27. being the Father and the Son, Mosiah 15:2. The Father, because he was conceived by the power of God, Mosiah 15:3. these are his seed, Mosiah 15:11. Christ … who is the very Eternal Father, Mosiah 16:15 (Alma 11:38). the very Eternal Father of heaven and of earth, Alma 11:39. Jesus Christ … the Father of heaven and of earth, Hel. 14:12(Ether 4:7). I am the Father and the Son, Ether 3:14. as many as receive me … become the sons of God, D&C 11:30(25:1; 35:2; 39:4; 45:8; 50:43). Fear not, little children, for you are mine, D&C 50:41. inhabitants thereof are begotten sons and daughters unto God, D&C 76:24. See also Ex. 4:22; John 17:6–12, 20–24; 2 Cor. 6:18; Eph. 1:3–6; D&C 76:58–59; 93:21–22.

I believe most of the unbelievers who waste away a major portion of their lives endlessly bloviating and nitpicking on this board is due to the fact that even though their carnal minds are convinced that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints isn’t true, their suppressed inner spiritual voices constantly whisper to them that the restored church actually is true. Hence the bizarre psychopathological obsession with having to combat those incessant nagging fears by expending a significant amount of time and effort in recurring attempts to reconvince their carnal minds that the church isn’t true because their pesky spirits just won’t shut up! But in the end it will all work out for the best for most because when the defenders of the unbelieving carnal mind are eventually reconverted, just like Alma and the sons of Mosiah they’ll eventually be numbered among the most thoroughly convinced, eloquent and indefatigable defenders of eternal truth. When that blessed day arrives, they’ll look back on that period of unbelief as a phase in which a wise and loving God graciously allowed them to embrace the bitter that they might finally learn how to gratefully prize the good. So keep it up because I’m supremely confident that after your inevitable reconversion we’ll meet have a good laugh! Happy Thanksgiving!

Like Korihor, I believe it’s likely that the spirits (not the carnal minds) of many anti-Mormons are painfully aware that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints is the true church of the Christ, due to that fact that the doctrines of the restored church powerfully affirm that God truly is a being of perfect love, undying mercy, compassion, long suffering, and infinite and eternal spiritual empowerment. Hence the desperation to attempt to feverishly convince their carnal minds that the nagging intrusions of their persuaded spirits are untrue by engaging in incessant rhetorical battles with those who do realize that their spirits know the truth. 52 And Korihor put forth his hand and wrote, saying: I know that I am dumb, for I cannot speak; and I know that nothing save it were the power of God could bring this upon me; yea, and I always knew that there was a God. 53 But behold, the devil hath deceived me; for he appeared unto me in the form of an angel, and said unto me: Go and reclaim this people, for they have all gone astray after an unknown God. And he said unto me: There is no God; yea, and he taught me that which I should say. And I have taught his words; and I taught them because they were pleasing unto the carnal mind; and I taught them, even until I had much success, insomuch that I verily believed that they were true; and for this cause I withstood the truth, even until I have brought this great curse upon me. (Alma 30)

Yes, I believe that Adam and Eve are fully human, which puts me in the good company of the early leaders of the church who taught that if the members of the church were spiritually mature enough to see beyond the deliberately simplistic, storybook version of creation portrayed in Genesis they would understand that our first parents gained their human bodies in the same way the rest of us do. As far as cloned humans are concerned, since the bodies of clones are unwisely created in an unnatural manner in violation of the Lord’s commandments, I would place them in the category of being trans human. Even so, clones get their genetic makeup from both human male and human female DNA. It will be most interesting to see how cloned humans are going fit into the Lord’s plan of salvation since exaltation is a family affair that requires the sealing of children to their .parents. I sure hope the mad scientist lab technicians who do the cloning aren’t going to become the default parents!

Some follow-up-up questions to the ones posed in my original post on this thread (see above): 1) If the Catholics and Protestants do in fact believe that the Lord Jesus Christ is fully human, in every sense of the word, how would it be possible to assert that the Lord is indeed fully human if the reproductive system of a human Father didn’t supply the paternal seed containing the human DNA that fertilized Mary’s ovum? 2) Is it possible to assert that the Lord is actually fully human if some sort of “lab grown” or “spiritually manufactured” spermatozoa impregnated Mary’s ovum without that fertilizing seed being the product of a human male reproductive system? 3) If the male seed that generated the Savior’s mortal body wasn’t the product of a human male reproductive system, wouldn’t it be more correct to say the Lord is actually a trans human hybrid and not fully human? 4) Even further, if in some way the Lord’s mortal body was miraculously produced without the need for some some kind of replicated spermatozoa, wouldn’t it be even more correct to say that he is a humanoid because the creator and manner of the creation of his body isn’t human?

11 But a seer will I (the Lord) raise up out of the fruit of thy (Joseph’s) loins; and unto him will I give power to bring forth my word (the Book of Mormon) unto the seed of thy loins (the descendants of Joseph)—and not to the bringing forth my word only, saith the Lord, but to the convincing them of my word, which shall have already gone forth among them (the Bible). 12 Wherefore, the fruit of thy (Joseph’s) loins shall write; and the fruit of the loins of Judah shall write; and that which shall be written by the fruit of thy loins, and also that which shall be written by the fruit of the loins of Judah, shall grow together, unto the confounding of false doctrines and laying down of contentions, and establishing peace among the fruit of thy loins, and bringing them to the knowledge of their fathers in the latter days, and also to the knowledge of my covenants, saith the Lord. (2 Nephi 3)

It’s a near certainty that the following words of the Lord given to Joseph son of Jacob, as quoted by the Prophet Lehi in 2 Nephi 3:12, were taken from the Brass Plates of Laban. In my opinion, I believe it’s also quite likely that the Prophet Ezekiel was familiar with the prophecies of the Prophet Joseph, and that it was the following prophecy of Joseph focusing on the coming forth of the Bible and the Book of Mormon as companion books of scripture in the last days that inspired Ezekiel to reiterate the same prophetic theme that’s found in Ezekiel 37. 12 Wherefore, the fruit of thy loins shall write; and the fruit of the loins of Judah shall write; and that which shall be written by the fruit of thy loins, and also that which shall be written by the fruit of the loins of Judah, shall grow together, unto the confounding of false doctrines and laying down of contentions, and establishing peace among the fruit of thy loins, and bringing them to the knowledge of their fathers in the latter days, and also to the knowledge of my covenants, saith the Lord. (2 Nephi 3:12)

I’ll let the angel who was sent from the presence of God to the Prophet Nephi bring additional insight into this discussion. Whatever the actual identification of the “great and abominable church” ultimately turns out to be, it’s clear that certain individuals who had access to the sacred writings of the Apostolic church of Christ tampered with them in a major way, mostly by deleting whole plain and precious portions of originally pure and accurate holy writ. It appears that whether or not the Catholics added to the Bible with apocryphal books or if the Protestants deleted from the Bible by removing the Apocrypha is of little consequence when compared to the original diabolical wholesale tampering with the Bible that took place many years earlier. -24 And the angel of the Lord said unto me: Thou hast beheld that the book (the Bible) proceeded forth from the mouth of a Jew; and when it proceeded forth from the mouth of a Jew it contained the fulness of the gospel of the Lord, of whom the twelve apostles bear record; and they bear record according to the truth which is in the Lamb of God. 25 Wherefore, these things go forth from the Jews in purity unto the Gentiles, according to the truth which is in God. 26 And after they go forth by the hand of the twelve apostles of the Lamb, from the Jews unto the Gentiles, thou seest the formation of that great and abominable church, which is most abominable above all other churches; for behold, they have taken away from the gospel of the Lamb many parts which are plain and most precious; and also many covenants of the Lord have they taken away. 27 And all this have they done that they might pervert the right ways of the Lord, that they might blind the eyes and harden the hearts of the children of men. 28 Wherefore, thou seest that after the book hath gone forth through the hands of the great and abominable church, that there are many plain and precious things taken away from the book, which is the book of the Lamb of God. 29 And after these plain and precious things were taken away it goeth forth unto all the nations of the Gentiles; and after it goeth forth unto all the nations of the Gentiles, yea, even across the many waters which thou hast seen with the Gentiles which have gone forth out of captivity, thou seest—because of the many plain and precious things which have been taken out of the book, which were plain unto the understanding of the children of men, according to the plainness which is in the Lamb of God—because of these things which are taken away out of the gospel of the Lamb, an exceedingly great many do stumble, yea, insomuch that Satan hath great power over them. (2 Nephi 13)

Oh heaven forbid that anyone should teach in order to be fully sanctified by the Lord it’s critically important to actually do the will of God and not just sit around thinking about possibly doing what the Lord has commanded us to do at some indefinite point in the future. Authentic belief (true living faith) is made manifest by one’s actions, not by being a mere passive hearer of the word who constantly says to himself mañana. Sounds like the grousing of a lazy kid who doesn’t want to contribute to the welfare and cohesiveness of his family by doing his reasonably assigned chores.

What’s so difficult to understand about the following very simple declaration of eternal truth? From the following, it’s perfectly clear that all intelligence — and that includes the uncreated intelligence that pre existed the creation of the spirit bodies of man — exists in a state of independence, possessing the ability to think and make choices. Again, how is it possible that an uncreated, self existent entity could be independent and have the power to act for itself unless it also possesses the ability to think and make decisions?! It’s also clear that the independence and decision making power of uncreated truth and intelligence is so fundamental to existence that without nothing at all could exist! It may be difficult to wrap the human mind around such profound and glorious principles of truth, but just because these things don’t fit comfortably within conventional thinking doesn’t render them untrue. 29 Man was also in the beginning with God. Intelligence or the light of truth, was not created or made, neither indeed can be. 30 All truth is independent in that sphere in which God has placed it, TO ACT FOR ITSELF, AS ALL INTELLEGENCE ALSO; otherwise there is no existence. (Doctrine and Covenants 93)

The problem is that people who believe in traditional Judeo-Christian marriage and family values, the sanctity of human life, the divine inspiration of the Founding Fathers and the sure hope that the American promised land is prophesied to govern the world in righteousness during Millennium are now considered to be Fascists by angry people who reject traditional Judeo-Christian family values, reject the sanctity of human life, believe the Founding Fathers were evil, and rejoice in the hope that the United States will one day become a brutal communist dictatorship are the clueless hypocrites who want to do the punching. Weird, isn’t it?

The center stake of Zion (the capital) is located in the region roundabout Independence Missouri. The worldwide stakes of Zion (the connected worldwide extensions of Zion) are prophesied in the Book of Mormon to be all over the face of the earth prior to and during the time of the Second Coming. 12 And it came to pass that I beheld the church of the Lamb of God, and its numbers were few, because of the wickedness and abominations of the whore who sat upon many waters; nevertheless, I beheld that the church of the Lamb, who were the saints of God, were also upon all the face of the earth; and their dominions upon the face of the earth were small, because of the wickedness of the great whore whom I saw. (1 Nephi 14)

I believe you’re projecting your own well known and amply demonstrated penchant for advocating physical violence against those with whom you disagree onto me. A classic case of the pot calling the kettle black…

One of the things I find most interesting in this particular controversy is that if the Catholics and Protesters have it right — that there is no continuance of heterosexual sexual marriage and family life after the resurrection due to the fact that heaven is a unisex neuter world where gender is rendered obsolete and meaningless — it can only mean that the anti-traditional family LGBTQ advocates are going to win in the end and that they’re correct in their belief that the concept of gender is nothing more than a human construct. In other words, the LGBTQ activists are simply ahead of their time.

It’s always interesting to observe how unbelievers will put the worst possible spin on any scriptural concept, principle or narrative in order to justify their unbelief. God forbid that it should ever be considered for a moment that there might be a positive and spiritually edifying way to understand what the Apostle Paul was referring to when he spoke of being slaves to Christ. Why give Paul the benefit of the doubt long enough to to conduct some research to determine if being a slave to Christ might have some positive connotations when hastily jumping to the worst possible conclusions will serve to validate the predetermined conclusions of the unbelievers that Paul, a man highly favored of God, was morally deficient, knuckle-dragging ignoramus? After reading a few of the latest posts on this thread, I immediately went to Goggle and AI provided the following perspectives on what it actually means to be a slave to Christ. And heaven forbid, there’s actually a positive way to understand what Paul meant when he spoke of being slaves to Christ as being the only way to be truly and fully liberated from sin and the grim servitude of spiritual death. To be a "slave of Christ" means to completely belong to Jesus, surrendering one's will and life to Him because He has redeemed them from sin. This is not a call to grim servitude, but a voluntary, loving submission to a "good Master" who is faithful and provides for His followers. It involves living with singular devotion, total dependence on Christ, and being personally accountable to Him. Characteristics of being a slave of Christ Complete submission: It means one's life is not ruled by their own will, but by the will of Christ, whom they follow and obey. Singular devotion: A slave of Christ is completely devoted to Him, as no one can serve two masters. Total dependence: This includes depending entirely on Christ for provision, not on oneself. Personal accountability: Christians are accountable to Christ for their actions and will give an account to Him. Freedom from sin: The term also signifies a release from the slavery of sin and death, resulting in freedom to serve God. Motivated by love: The servitude is motivated by love, not fear, and is a willing surrender to follow His commands. Exclusive ownership: Christians are not their own, but belong to Christ, who paid the price to redeem them from slavery to sin. Key implications A reversal of the master-slave relationship: While modern interpretations of slavery are negative, this term is used to emphasize the unique relationship with Christ, who is a loving and benevolent master. A higher calling: It is not a lesser status but a higher privilege, as Paul considered it the highest honor to be a slave of Christ. A life of purpose: It means surrendering one's will to God's glory, resulting in a life of righteousness and eternal life.

In 2 Nephi 2 the Prophet Lehi testifies that if Lucifer and his followers had succeeded in dethroning God the only thing their rebellion would’ve accomplished would have been the annihilation of existence. Lucifer’s supposed “plan of salvation” was nothing less than a cosmic suicide pact! 13 And if ye shall say there is no lwa,ye shall also say there is no sin. If ye shall say there is no sin, ye shall also say there is no righteousness. And if there be no righteousness there be no happiness. And if there be no righteousness nor happiness there be no punishment nor misery. And if these things are not there is no God. And if there is no God we are not, neither the earth; for there could have been no creation of things, neither to act nor to be acted upon; wherefore, all things must have vanished away. (2 Nephi 2)

How silly it is to believe that exalted men and women are going to dwell on planets! Anyone with a lick of sense knows it’s a ‘one off’ that God created, was born on, grew to maturity, died and then rose from the dead on this absurd material planet! It makes perfect sense that what happened on this earth with regard to God is never, ever going to happen again throughout all eternity! I guess it proves that even the All-Knowing God can make mistakes. Going forward, what’s actually going to happen is exalted men and women are going to reign as crowned heavenly kings and queens over dominions that are located in large patches of empty space! Instead of living on beautiful material planets filled with fertile lands, forests, mountainous regions and vast sparkling bodies of water, all of which are teaming with staggering varieties of plant and animal life, we’re all going to just float around in space where we won’t have to worry about raking leaves, climate change and the drudgery of having to be wise stewards over creation. Can’t wait! Setting up “dominions” in empty space will be far less complicated and troublesome than the silly way God is compelling us to exist on this annoying, cumbersome planet! I’m so looking forward to the day when the enthroned sons and daughters of God, who will be crowned as reigning kings and queens and joint heirs with Christ in all he possesses, will be able to enjoy performing endless pirouettes and flawless acrobatic moves in the uncluttered expanse of empty space. So glad to know that this well meaning but ultimately failed experiment of living on planets, instead of in the glorious void of empty space, will never happen again! Planets?! Who needs them?! P.S. But I have one question: If planets are going to be a thing of the past, I’m wondering why the universe is filled with billions of them? Asking for a friend.

Excellent! The King Follett Discourse obliterates the “no individual personhood prior the first estate” narrative. The only way to escape the clearly stated revelatory disclosures of the King Follett Discourse is to simply ignore them. But even if one puts the King Follett Discourse aside, Doctrine and Covenants 93 also testifies that mankind, the intelligence that dwells within both the spirit bodies and flesh and blood bodies of each man and woman, had no beginning and will have no end. This is the beautiful “one eternal round” concept presented in the King Follett Discourse! Further, Doctrine and Covenants 93 testifies that not only is the intelligence of man eternal, without a beginning or end, but that each man always was a man from all eternity, regardless of the particular realm he or she presently inhabits. In other words, we didn’t start as intelligences that later became men, but we always were men of a race that had no beginning. Just as it is with God we are eternal, having no beginning and no end. 23 Ye were also in the beginning with the Father; that which is Spirit, even the Spirit of truth; and… 29 Man was also in the beginning with God. Intelligence, or the light of truth, was not created or made, neither indeed can be. 30 All truth is independent in that sphere in which God has placed it, to act for itself, as all intelligence also; otherwise there is no existence. Verse 30 reveals that truth and intelligence do not exist as amalgamated “oceans” of spiritual energy in which there is no place for individuality. Rather, uncreated truth and intelligence are spiritual oceans composed of of individual intelligences who are endowed, through the infinite and eternal atonement, to be able to think and act for themselves, and if this were not so nothing could exist. Why? Because agency is the fundamental building block of existence, and without all things (even individual atoms and subatomic particles) having the ability to think and act for themselves existence would be devoid of meaning. When the Lord turned water into wine, the atoms joyfully obeyed his command.

Because the term “multiple wives” includes both full status wives and the wives of lesser status known as concubines. Even so, the early Latter-Day Saint practitioners of plural marriage didn’t engage in concubinage, so why unnecessary draw attention to a controversial ancient marital practice that wasn’t practiced by Latter-Day Saints? You’ll surely understand that the inclusion of the term concubines could easily cause some modern readers to get the wrong idea that the early Latter-Day Saint practitioners of plural marriage engaged in concubinage.

The theological concepts set forth in the King Follett Discourse are elaborations of the same doctrinal principles the prophet set forth in Doctrine and Covenants 93. 29 Man was also in the beginning with God. Intelligence, or the light of truth, was not created or made, neither indeed can be. 30 All truth is independent in that sphere in which God has placed it, to act for itself, as all intelligence also; otherwise there is no existence. (Doctrine and Covenants 93) Verse 29 predates by 11 years the assertion made in the King Follett Discourse that “the intelligence of spirits had no beginning, neither will it have an end.” It appears that man in his native primeval state is composed of a combination of pure spiritual light and truth. This helps to explain that one of the reasons why God is able to justly punish men for sin is because when they choose to transgress his holy laws they are acting in direct defiance against who and what they really are at the core of their being. Verse 30 goes on to make the astonishing assertion that rather than being a catalogue of lifeless abstract ideas, uncreated eternal truth is comprised of self-aware independent entities that are able to think and act for themselves; the same holds true for uncreated intelligence. Eternal truth and intelligence are both spiritually alive and self-aware, and if this weren’t the case nothing could exist. These profound revelation's lead me to believe that Max Planck was on to something when he postulated that all things that exist are self aware and to some extent intelligent.