teddyaware

He’s wondering why a strict literal reading of the quoted verses appear to indicate that it’s only the deceased prophets who were given the assignment to preach the gospel to the dead. But due to the fact that telnetd doesn’t understand how the organization of the restored church of Christ works, he doesn’t realize that after prophets are called and assigned that they are almost always expected to call others to assist them in the accomplishment of their assignments. As experienced and knowledgeable Latter-Day Saints, it’s second nature for us to understand that one of the primary duties of the Lord’s prophets is to call and delegate authority to fellow laborers in order to assist them in the effective and fruitful execution of their labors.

Very Simple! Just as it is here on earth, the presiding prophets assigned by the Lord to oversee the missionary work in the spirit world are given power and authority by God to not only teach but also to call, instruct and organize other missionaries beside themselves to preach the gospel of Jesus Christ to the spirits of the dead. When the Lord called his inspired apostles at the start of his ministry in the holy land, the church consisted of an intimate core of very few empowered disciples, but as time went on the Book of Acts bears witness to the fact the membership of the church eventually greatly increased, with far more missionaries assigned to teach the gospel than the original core quorum of twelve apostles who stood at the head of the church in its infancy. It’s pure common sense! Apostles and prophets of God are authorized and empowered to expand the ranks of the church and delegate some of their assignments to others that all the members of the church may become full and productive participants within the body of Christ. Simply put, authorized prophets of God have the power and right to call, organize and to also delegate some of their sacred duties to the ranks of God’s holy army.

In the above quote, President Young’s counsel to the saints is that they need to receive confirmatory personal revelation from God in order to know for certain that the prophets and apostles are leading the members aright, and that by receiving said confirmatory revelation the members are much better able to properly sustain the church leaders in their indispensable roles as prophets, seers and revelators. President Young is most definitely not instructing the members of the church that they need to learn how to “go it alone” without looking to the leaders of the church for the essential contemporary guidance they need in order to more effectively serve God and keep his commandments. I can see how a careless and perfunctory analysis of President Young’s words might cause someone to erroneously conclude that personal revelation obviates the need for prophetic guidance from those who stand at the head of the church, but President Young is actually teaching something that’s diametrically opposite to a “Lone Ranger” approach to gospel living.

I believe one of the main reasons why a fair number of members are struggling with the church’s history of plural marriage is due to the fact that they are carnally minded. The spiritually darkened and muddled thought processes of the carnal mind make it nigh unto impossible for anyone to even imagine it’s possibile that plural marriage can be practiced in holiness by men and women who possess great spiritual strength, insight and wisdom. As a consequence of being unable to accept the word of God as plainly set forth in Doctrine and Covenants 132, the spiritual foundations of some of the these carnally minded individuals are already beginning to crack and crumble under the weight of unbelief, greatly increasing the likelihood that they will falter when the prophesied sever persecutions of the last days are unleashed by the adversary. Simply put, plural marriage is a divinely ordained Abrahamic test of faith for those who were commanded to practice it, and it’s another kind Abrahamic test of faith for the members of the Church who now view the unpopular and misunderstood principle from our present-day vantage point. Sadly, it appears likely that some will fail the test and falter in their testimonies because their carnal minds prevent the from understanding that plural marriage can indeed be practiced in wholesomeness and purity by those who are well on the way to being sanctified. The main problem is that too many members fail to realize that God has always commanded his people to do very difficult and even seemingly impossible things as part of the fiery refining process that’s wisely designed to purify our souls and prepare us for greater happiness. And since it’s inevitable that some will kick against the pricks, so be it… 1) Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled. (Titus 1:15)

The Apostle Paul testifies that within the corporeal body of the resurrected Lord Jesus Christ dwells “all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.”This powerfully attests to the reality that the resurrected corporeal body of Jesus Christ doesn’t hinder nor diminish from the infinite and eternal fulness of his Godhood in any way. To me, the fact that Christ has a resurrected material body actually makes him superior to the Father in some ways, at least insofar as the enjoyment of his existence is concerned. Is say this because the corporeal body of Jesus Christ makes it possible for him to enjoy a wider breadth of experience than the Father is able to enjoy, for if the Father is immaterial there’s a whole wondrous realm of existence that the Father is unable to fully participate in and enjoy. The Catholic and Protestant God the Father is unable to participate in the experiences that can only be enjoyed when a spirit is clothed with a corporeal body. Consider: Due to the fact that Christ has a body he’s quite literally able to physically embrace the embodied sons and daughters of God in his holy arms, and tell them he loves them with audible words spoken from his mouth, something the Catholic and Protestant God the Father is unable do because he is immaterial, ineffable and “totally other.” If possessing a corporeal body doesn’t diminish the Godhead of Jesus Christ one iota, while enabling him to fully function as a living personage within the material realm, one has to wonder why the Father wouldn’t want to enjoy having a physical body as well? ‘For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.” (Colossians 2:9)

Try the new 70 ton M1A2 SEPv4 Abrams Tank. Even if there is an accident, all the other cars will just bounce off!

He thought he’d be able to dupe the church leaders because his personal background story is so “fascinating” (a former Muslim and such), and because he esteems himself an engaging, lively and animated public speaker, unlike the usual dry, lowkey and “boring” guys he says usually speak in church.

I’ll repeat myself: If Tim Ballard is indeed guilty, the aggressive legal actions he’s taking against his accusers will almost certainly backfire and expose his criminality. The man is passionately bound and determined to have every piece of evidence brought to light, disclosed, and exposed for all the world to see. Consequently, I’ve come to the conclusion that he’s either convinced of his own innocence or he’s criminally insane. If he is ultimately exonerated, his big mistake was thinking it was a good idea to recruit women who were too emotionally delicate to convincingly play the role of the most extreme kinds of sexual perverts without realizing that they could end up being psychologically traumatized and extremely resentful that he convinced them to degrade and humiliate themselves in pursuit of a “higher good.”

If Tim Ballard’s lawyer Mark Eisenhut is telling the truth in the following video, in which he presents the same evidence he used in court to successfully get Celeste Borys’ case against Ballard dismissed, it appears the case against Ballard as a sexual preditor may not be as cut and dried as many believe it to be. Ballard’s accuser Borys appears to be a prime example of an inconsistent and conflicted witness who utterly lacks credibility. The question is, among all of Ballard’s other accusers is Celeste Borys a lone dishonest outlier who was looking to cash in while Ballard’s other accusers are telling the truth about the “couples ruse,” or will it turn out that the rest of Ballard’s accusers are just as inconsistent, dishonest and money grubbing as Borys appears to be. Time will tell because by Ballard’s own zealous initiative this is all going to be exhaustively aired out and litigated in courts of law. If Ballard actually is guilty, his determined hard court press to bring all things pertinent to the accusations made against him to light has got to to be one of the most wrongheaded and foolhardy strategies ever conceived and executed by the human mind!

The thing I find fascinating is how there seem to be so many members who are so uncomfortable with sex, especially the unsettling thought that there actually might be sex in heaven, that procreation, the most basic and fundamental biological function that determines whether someone is male or female, is tossed out the window and the resurrected sex organs are relegated to being nothing more than useless vestigial organs that will just sit there forever and serve no perfected function. Why not just be resurrected with anatomically incorrect bodies, like Barbie and Ken, rather than have to spend all eternity encumbered with goofy looking vestigial organs that serve no purpose? To me, this is another perfect example of how some who are able to see are still unable to see.

Though with so little information it’s impossible to generalize, I would say that the sins would stack up differently if the church goer’s church attendance is indicative of a measure of faith unto repentance and a fighting spirit that’s striving to overcome his weaknesses. For instance, in my opinion the tobacco addicted church convert who keeps trying to give up his habit but stumbles is more justified before God than the church convert who tried to quit once but then gave up the fight. To the casual observer the sin looks the same, but there’s a world of difference between the man who keeps on battling to overcome his addiction and the one who loses all hope and surrenders to his addiction.

The best explanation I’ve heard as to why so many Christians would rather embrace the God who unjustly consigns the vast majority of humanity to an endless hell of unimaginable suffering is because they’re unwittingly suffering from a cosmic form of Stockholm Syndrome. Better to obsequiously cower before and praise the almighty monster who’s somehow able to turn his back his own “beloved” creatures and abandon them to endless sorrow than to end up another one of the billions of his victims.

The all important divine principle that’s missing from your sour, limited and pessimistic outlook is a clear understanding that God is a perfectly loving, just and merciful being. The God of heaven is morally bound by eternal law to ultimately bring justice and mercy into perfect alignment in the lives of each one of his spirit children. No one is cheated or left behind. God’s omniscient mind and omnipotent power are fully able to assure that each individual will have an equal chance to obtain salvation and exaltation in the end. Even though for now things may seem unfair and chaotic, in the long run there won’t be a single individual at the time of the final judgement who will be able to rightly say that they were treated unfairly. In fact, God’s plan of salvation is so perfect that in the end the spirit sons and daughters of God will only have themselves to blame if they are ultimately relegated to inherit a heavenly kingdom of glory that’s lower than the highest degree of glory in the celestial kingdom. And while I understand that there’s a certain kind of emotional satisfaction that comes to those who ignorantly cry out that it’s all so unfair, in the end these bellyachers will be constrained by their own convicted consciences to confess that there’s nothing arbitrary nor unfair in God’s perfectly just, comprehensive and all encompassing plan of salvation! 30 But behold, from among the righteous, he organized his forces and appointed messengers, clothed with power and authority, and commissioned them to go forth and carry the light of the gospel to them that were in darkness, even to all the spirits of men; and thus was the gospel preached to the dead. 31 And the chosen messengers went forth to declare the acceptable day of the Lord and proclaim liberty to the captives who were bound, even unto all who would repent of their sins and receive the gospel. 32 Thus was the gospel preached to those who had died in their sins, without a knowledge of the truth, or in transgression, having rejected the prophets. (Doctrine and Covenants 138)

Just as the unrepentant and rebellious will be destroyed in the flesh at the time of the Second Coming, thereby forfeiting the opportunity they might have had to joyfully greet the Lord at his coming and be personally instructed at his hand, so too the unrepentant spirits who were confined to the spirit prison at the time of Christ’s mInistry to the spirit world were similarly unprepared to be ministered to by the Lord due to the spiritual blindness and rebellious attitudes that had rendered them unworthy and unfit to be able to enjoy the Lord’s personal presence and teaching. Just as it is here on earth where converts to the Lord are taught by authorized servants to help prepare them for the blessed day when they will be more fully worthy to meet the Lord in person, the inhabitants of the spirit prison who repent and are converted to the Lord are also in a preparatory state to help them get ready for the blessed day when they will be worthy to meet the Lord in person and receive further instruction on how to grow spiritually that they might know the way to enjoy even greater spiritual communion with the Father. Pure common sense.

If those believers in Christ who overcome the world by faith are “made partakers of the divine nature,” so much so that they become “the sons of God” and “joint heirs with Christ” in all things that he himself possesses, even to the point that they will be crowned kings in heaven entrusted with the scepter of divine authority, and also the most extraordinary right to be seated upon the very throne of Christ’s holy dominion and power, therefore in what remaining ways will these exalted individuals still not measure up to “the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ?” And please refrain from claiming that we Latter-Day believe we will eventually supplant Christ and that he will no longer be our God because that false notion is most definitely NOT what we believe! So in what specific ways will those who are enthroned as the sons of God not inherit all things that Christ himself possesses? Again, please be very specific as to which specific divine attributes those who overcome the world will still be found lacking?

Most Latter-Day Saints are unaware of the fact that the church acknowledges t=there are instances in the scriptures when the sacred name Jehovah is applied to God the Father. Psalms 110:1 provides a perfect example of when this occurs: 1) The LORD (Jehovah) said unto my Lord (Christ), Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstools. (Psalms 110) ‘Many members may be surprised to learn that the Latter-Day Saint Bible’s Topical Guide includes a reference section under the heading “God the Father, Jehovah,” and another reference section under the heading “Jesus Christ, Jehovah.” Included under the heading “God the Father, Jehovah,” are also verses that speak of Christ as being the Father of Heaven and Earth and the Father of our salvation. From the Topical Guide… God the Father, Jehovah See also Godhead; God the Father, Elohim; Jesus Christ, Jehovah; Witness of the Father my God … my father’s God, Ex. 15:2. Lord God of Israel our father, 1 Chr. 29:10. father of the fatherless … is God, Ps. 68:5. his name shall be called … The mighty God, The everlasting Father, Isa. 9:6 (2 Ne. 19:6). thou, O Lord, art our father, Isa. 63:16. My father, thou art the guide of my youth, Jer. 3:4. I am a father to Israel, Jer. 31:9. in Christ Jesus I have begotten you, 1 Cor. 4:15. will be a Father unto you … saith the Lord, 2 Cor. 6:18. Christ was the God, the Father of all things, Mosiah 7:27. being the Father and the Son, Mosiah 15:2. The Father, because he was conceived by the power of God, Mosiah 15:3. these are his seed, Mosiah 15:11. Christ … who is the very Eternal Father, Mosiah 16:15 (Alma 11:38). the very Eternal Father of heaven and of earth, Alma 11:39. Jesus Christ … the Father of heaven and of earth, Hel. 14:12(Ether 4:7). I am the Father and the Son, Ether 3:14. as many as receive me … become the sons of God, D&C 11:30(25:1; 35:2; 39:4; 45:8; 50:43). Fear not, little children, for you are mine, D&C 50:41. inhabitants thereof are begotten sons and daughters unto God, D&C 76:24. See also Ex. 4:22; John 17:6–12, 20–24; 2 Cor. 6:18; Eph. 1:3–6; D&C 76:58–59; 93:21–22.

I believe most of the unbelievers who waste away a major portion of their lives endlessly bloviating and nitpicking on this board is due to the fact that even though their carnal minds are convinced that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints isn’t true, their suppressed inner spiritual voices constantly whisper to them that the restored church actually is true. Hence the bizarre psychopathological obsession with having to combat those incessant nagging fears by expending a significant amount of time and effort in recurring attempts to reconvince their carnal minds that the church isn’t true because their pesky spirits just won’t shut up! But in the end it will all work out for the best for most because when the defenders of the unbelieving carnal mind are eventually reconverted, just like Alma and the sons of Mosiah they’ll eventually be numbered among the most thoroughly convinced, eloquent and indefatigable defenders of eternal truth. When that blessed day arrives, they’ll look back on that period of unbelief as a phase in which a wise and loving God graciously allowed them to embrace the bitter that they might finally learn how to gratefully prize the good. So keep it up because I’m supremely confident that after your inevitable reconversion we’ll meet have a good laugh! Happy Thanksgiving!

Like Korihor, I believe it’s likely that the spirits (not the carnal minds) of many anti-Mormons are painfully aware that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints is the true church of the Christ, due to that fact that the doctrines of the restored church powerfully affirm that God truly is a being of perfect love, undying mercy, compassion, long suffering, and infinite and eternal spiritual empowerment. Hence the desperation to attempt to feverishly convince their carnal minds that the nagging intrusions of their persuaded spirits are untrue by engaging in incessant rhetorical battles with those who do realize that their spirits know the truth. 52 And Korihor put forth his hand and wrote, saying: I know that I am dumb, for I cannot speak; and I know that nothing save it were the power of God could bring this upon me; yea, and I always knew that there was a God. 53 But behold, the devil hath deceived me; for he appeared unto me in the form of an angel, and said unto me: Go and reclaim this people, for they have all gone astray after an unknown God. And he said unto me: There is no God; yea, and he taught me that which I should say. And I have taught his words; and I taught them because they were pleasing unto the carnal mind; and I taught them, even until I had much success, insomuch that I verily believed that they were true; and for this cause I withstood the truth, even until I have brought this great curse upon me. (Alma 30)

Yes, I believe that Adam and Eve are fully human, which puts me in the good company of the early leaders of the church who taught that if the members of the church were spiritually mature enough to see beyond the deliberately simplistic, storybook version of creation portrayed in Genesis they would understand that our first parents gained their human bodies in the same way the rest of us do. As far as cloned humans are concerned, since the bodies of clones are unwisely created in an unnatural manner in violation of the Lord’s commandments, I would place them in the category of being trans human. Even so, clones get their genetic makeup from both human male and human female DNA. It will be most interesting to see how cloned humans are going fit into the Lord’s plan of salvation since exaltation is a family affair that requires the sealing of children to their .parents. I sure hope the mad scientist lab technicians who do the cloning aren’t going to become the default parents!

Some follow-up-up questions to the ones posed in my original post on this thread (see above): 1) If the Catholics and Protestants do in fact believe that the Lord Jesus Christ is fully human, in every sense of the word, how would it be possible to assert that the Lord is indeed fully human if the reproductive system of a human Father didn’t supply the paternal seed containing the human DNA that fertilized Mary’s ovum? 2) Is it possible to assert that the Lord is actually fully human if some sort of “lab grown” or “spiritually manufactured” spermatozoa impregnated Mary’s ovum without that fertilizing seed being the product of a human male reproductive system? 3) If the male seed that generated the Savior’s mortal body wasn’t the product of a human male reproductive system, wouldn’t it be more correct to say the Lord is actually a trans human hybrid and not fully human? 4) Even further, if in some way the Lord’s mortal body was miraculously produced without the need for some some kind of replicated spermatozoa, wouldn’t it be even more correct to say that he is a humanoid because the creator and manner of the creation of his body isn’t human?

11 But a seer will I (the Lord) raise up out of the fruit of thy (Joseph’s) loins; and unto him will I give power to bring forth my word (the Book of Mormon) unto the seed of thy loins (the descendants of Joseph)—and not to the bringing forth my word only, saith the Lord, but to the convincing them of my word, which shall have already gone forth among them (the Bible). 12 Wherefore, the fruit of thy (Joseph’s) loins shall write; and the fruit of the loins of Judah shall write; and that which shall be written by the fruit of thy loins, and also that which shall be written by the fruit of the loins of Judah, shall grow together, unto the confounding of false doctrines and laying down of contentions, and establishing peace among the fruit of thy loins, and bringing them to the knowledge of their fathers in the latter days, and also to the knowledge of my covenants, saith the Lord. (2 Nephi 3)

It’s a near certainty that the following words of the Lord given to Joseph son of Jacob, as quoted by the Prophet Lehi in 2 Nephi 3:12, were taken from the Brass Plates of Laban. In my opinion, I believe it’s also quite likely that the Prophet Ezekiel was familiar with the prophecies of the Prophet Joseph, and that it was the following prophecy of Joseph focusing on the coming forth of the Bible and the Book of Mormon as companion books of scripture in the last days that inspired Ezekiel to reiterate the same prophetic theme that’s found in Ezekiel 37. 12 Wherefore, the fruit of thy loins shall write; and the fruit of the loins of Judah shall write; and that which shall be written by the fruit of thy loins, and also that which shall be written by the fruit of the loins of Judah, shall grow together, unto the confounding of false doctrines and laying down of contentions, and establishing peace among the fruit of thy loins, and bringing them to the knowledge of their fathers in the latter days, and also to the knowledge of my covenants, saith the Lord. (2 Nephi 3:12)

I’ll let the angel who was sent from the presence of God to the Prophet Nephi bring additional insight into this discussion. Whatever the actual identification of the “great and abominable church” ultimately turns out to be, it’s clear that certain individuals who had access to the sacred writings of the Apostolic church of Christ tampered with them in a major way, mostly by deleting whole plain and precious portions of originally pure and accurate holy writ. It appears that whether or not the Catholics added to the Bible with apocryphal books or if the Protestants deleted from the Bible by removing the Apocrypha is of little consequence when compared to the original diabolical wholesale tampering with the Bible that took place many years earlier. -24 And the angel of the Lord said unto me: Thou hast beheld that the book (the Bible) proceeded forth from the mouth of a Jew; and when it proceeded forth from the mouth of a Jew it contained the fulness of the gospel of the Lord, of whom the twelve apostles bear record; and they bear record according to the truth which is in the Lamb of God. 25 Wherefore, these things go forth from the Jews in purity unto the Gentiles, according to the truth which is in God. 26 And after they go forth by the hand of the twelve apostles of the Lamb, from the Jews unto the Gentiles, thou seest the formation of that great and abominable church, which is most abominable above all other churches; for behold, they have taken away from the gospel of the Lamb many parts which are plain and most precious; and also many covenants of the Lord have they taken away. 27 And all this have they done that they might pervert the right ways of the Lord, that they might blind the eyes and harden the hearts of the children of men. 28 Wherefore, thou seest that after the book hath gone forth through the hands of the great and abominable church, that there are many plain and precious things taken away from the book, which is the book of the Lamb of God. 29 And after these plain and precious things were taken away it goeth forth unto all the nations of the Gentiles; and after it goeth forth unto all the nations of the Gentiles, yea, even across the many waters which thou hast seen with the Gentiles which have gone forth out of captivity, thou seest—because of the many plain and precious things which have been taken out of the book, which were plain unto the understanding of the children of men, according to the plainness which is in the Lamb of God—because of these things which are taken away out of the gospel of the Lamb, an exceedingly great many do stumble, yea, insomuch that Satan hath great power over them. (2 Nephi 13)

Oh heaven forbid that anyone should teach in order to be fully sanctified by the Lord it’s critically important to actually do the will of God and not just sit around thinking about possibly doing what the Lord has commanded us to do at some indefinite point in the future. Authentic belief (true living faith) is made manifest by one’s actions, not by being a mere passive hearer of the word who constantly says to himself mañana. Sounds like the grousing of a lazy kid who doesn’t want to contribute to the welfare and cohesiveness of his family by doing his reasonably assigned chores.

What’s so difficult to understand about the following very simple declaration of eternal truth? From the following, it’s perfectly clear that all intelligence — and that includes the uncreated intelligence that pre existed the creation of the spirit bodies of man — exists in a state of independence, possessing the ability to think and make choices. Again, how is it possible that an uncreated, self existent entity could be independent and have the power to act for itself unless it also possesses the ability to think and make decisions?! It’s also clear that the independence and decision making power of uncreated truth and intelligence is so fundamental to existence that without nothing at all could exist! It may be difficult to wrap the human mind around such profound and glorious principles of truth, but just because these things don’t fit comfortably within conventional thinking doesn’t render them untrue. 29 Man was also in the beginning with God. Intelligence or the light of truth, was not created or made, neither indeed can be. 30 All truth is independent in that sphere in which God has placed it, TO ACT FOR ITSELF, AS ALL INTELLEGENCE ALSO; otherwise there is no existence. (Doctrine and Covenants 93)