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teddyaware

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  1. It figures Bushman would be lauded over Nibley on this board. After all, Bushman is the “go to” guy for thousands of bitter former believers who depend upon his “research” to justify their loss of faith and exit from the Church.
  2. No. All the spirit children of God have the God-given potential to become as he is. But there will be many of God’s spirit children in the eternities who will be relegated to the status of angels and will not become gods, because they did not fully overcome the world through faith in Christ and obtain the right to be crowned and enthroned on the very throne of Christ. 16 Therefore, when they (God’s spirit children who do not fully overcome the world) are out of the world they neither marry nor are given in marriage; but are appointed angels in heaven, which angels are ministering servants, to minister for those who are worthy of a far more, and an exceeding, and an eternal weight of glory. 17 For these angels did not abide my law; therefore, they cannot be enlarged, but remain separately and singly, without exaltation, in their saved condition, to all eternity; and from henceforth are not gods, but are angels of God forever and ever. (D&C 132). Meanwhile, there will be those others who are now called angels (such as the angel Moroni) who will obtain that promised “far more exceeding and eternal weight of glory” and eventually be crowned and enthroned as gods. In other words, for some the status of being classified as an angel is temporary.
  3. The answers to your questions are beautifully answered in Doctrine and Covenants Sections 76 and 138. If your questions still haven’t been answered after carefully studying these two sections of scripture, it means you’re either not understanding or missing things that are plainly obvious. So obvious, in fact, that it will do no good if I try to explain it to you.
  4. Why don’t find a way to simplify your musings and questions in order to facilitate greater participation and more focused input. If you make things simple enough for bright sixth graders to understand, you’ll be much more likely to get satisfactory answers to your questions.
  5. Part of the reason why some may bristle is because they fail to comprehend and appreciate that when men become like God it will only be because God dwells within them. A man cannot become a God unless the mind (Spirit) and power of the very God whom he worships dwells within him in infinite and eternal fulness. Men do not become Gods on their own, but only through the indwelling of the mind, power and might of the Godhead. In other words, men become Gods when God dwells within them; men can’t become God’s on their own. It never ceases to amaze me just how spiritually blind some people can be. Joseph Smith said he constantly encountered this phenomenon of spiritual blindness among the saints, and it was ever a source of great frustration to him.
  6. The one element that is almost always left out of such musings by members of the Church is that it was the power of the Father (not his own power) that enabled our Lord to be the Christ. Christ testified to the apostle Philip, “It is not I who have done these things but the Father who dwelleth in me, He doeth the works.” Jesus Christ was saved from the fallen nature by the power of God, and without constant infusions of the the power of God as as a great empowering and enlightening aid He could have done nothing for our benefit and salvation. This is why McConkie taught that Christ is the very prototype of a saved being Christ is a saved being just as we all are, for he perfectly teaches us how to overcome the fallen nature and the temptations of the devil by the yielding of one’s heart to God. This is why Christ needed the gift of the Holy Ghost, just like the rest of us. It’s also important to note that although Christ was without sin that doesn’t mean he never made any mistakes (the prophet Joseph Smith taught one can make serious, heart rending mistakes that aren’t actually sins), the consequences of which enabled him to “learn obedience by the things which he suffered” (Paul). Doctrine and Covenants 93 makes it abundantly clear that throughout his life the Savior by constantly received greater and greater outpourings of divine grace until his own will as a Son was totally swallowed up in the will of the Father, and it is by this means that he was enabled to make a perfect infinite and eternal atoning sacrifice of God. Without these constant infusions of divine power and enlightenment from his Father Christ couldn’t have saved anyone. Remember, it wasn’t until the strengthening angel blessed Christ in Gethsemane that the he was finally able stop pleading with his Father to take away the bitter cup, and it wasn’t until after the same empowering angelic visitation that Christ began to shed his precious atoning blood. While the Son was still in the midst of pleading with his Father to take away the bitter cup, no atoning blood was 12 And I, John, saw that he received not of the fulness at the first, but received grace for grace; 13 And he received not of the fulness at first, but continued from grace to grace, UNTIL he received a fulness; 14 And thus he was called the Son of God, because he received not of the fulness at the first. 15 And I, John, bear record, and lo, the heavens were opened, and the Holy Ghost descended upon him in the form of a dove, and sat upon him, and there came a voice out of heaven saying: This is my beloved Son. 16 And I, John, bear record that he RECEIVED a fulness of the glory of the Father; 17 And he RECEIVED all power, both in heaven and on earth, and the glory of the Father was with him, for he dwelt in him. (Doctrine and Covenants 93) Thus Christ teaches us how to overcome the fallen nature and be saved, not by mechanically “going through the motions” but by relying wholly on the redemptive power of God in order to overcome the fallen world and OBTAIN salvation.
  7. The prophet Joseph Smith taught: “God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens! … It is the first principle of the Gospel to know for a certainty the Character of God, and to know that we may converse with him as one man converses with another, and that he was once a man like us; yea, that God himself, the Father of us all, dwelt on an earth, the same as Jesus Christ himself did.” (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith) Further, the word ‘human’ means “having to do with man.” So a human is a living being with the biological composition, attributes, intelligence, and characteristics of a man. So I’m trying to fathom why the word human is somehow deficient to the word man in the context of the gospel. Are not the two words interchangeable? What’s the difference between a man and a male human being? It appears as if you’re drawing a distinction without any substantive difference. Do you believe God was once a man who lived on a planet like this one?
  8. While ‘human’ may be regarded as a secular term, Church leaders and scholars alike have often used it in a gospel context throughout the years.
  9. Because Christ commands us to worship the being who is the literal Father of our spirits, in the same way God commands earthly fathers to stand at the head of leadership in their own families. It’s called the Patriarchal order, and can be seen in both substance and action all throughout the Old and New Testaments. And as far as being called gods in the here and now, it’s nothing more than an acknowledgment that human beings are of the race of Gods who were created the image and likeness of God. Christ was every bit God even at the time when he was a helpless infant who was dependent upon his parents who were commanded to raise him in the nature and admonition of the Lord until the time that he was was no longer under their authority and discipline. Joseph was warned to take the Christ child into Egypt, not Joseph’s father. Eventually, through the process of continually receiving increased grace for grace, the Lord was finally made perfect, thereby becoming the author of our salvation. A member of the race of gods who is not fully mature can still be rightly called a god, in the same way a human man child is rightly considered a member of the race of man by birthright.
  10. For the moment, let’s focus like a laser on one specific point of this controversy. Will someone with common sense (those without common sense need not respond) please explain to me why asserting that last summer’s violent BLM protestors, who caused over 2 billion dollars in insured property damage through arson, extreme vandalism and massive looting, needed to be arrested and imprisoned for their very real crimes is somehow an example of ‘toxic’ “white supremacy?”
  11. As if the baby killing communists and totalitarian world government promoting megalomaniacs you support aren’t equally twisted and worthy of being punched.
  12. Yours is a very clever way to get some of the believing participants on this thread to (unwittingly?) agree with you that many of the passages in the scriptures of the Church are untrue. Is it not correct that in the eyes of many former believers Elder McConkie’s main “transgression” is that he actually had the temerity to believe the scriptures are factually true? Meanwhile, the fact is that there isn’t a single so-called ‘controversial” doctrinal belief that Elder McConkie held that can’t be well supported — or at very least strongly suggested to be true — in the scriptures of the Church. You know your ultimate target the scriptures, but you artfully used Elder McConkie’s current unpopularity as a wedge to get some of the faithful members here to begin to walk away from their trust in the reliability of the scriptures. To me at least, your ploy is very transparent. Discuss the post not the poster.
  13. So I’m guessing you believe the only deceased individuals who will be able to repent and accept Christ in the spirit world will be those who were already in the process of repenting and turning to Christ at the time of their deaths?
  14. Do you believe it’s also true that the New Testament Church made the same kind of “grandiose claims” that you think the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints is making today? And if so, do you believe the New Testament Church was as arrogant and exclusive in its day as you believe the Latter-Day Saints are today? The point being, if the restored Church is indeed a restoration of the New Testament Church, why should anyone reasonably expect it to be any different today than it was at the time of the apostles?
  15. This thread provides compelling evidence that the Church is eventually going to split into at least two major factions, one of which will exit the Church and reject the 15 as living prophets of God.
  16. Based on his past behavior, I’d say Lucifer would go for the last option, with godless, totalitarian oligarchs deciding what should be the “right way” to raise a child.
  17. Correct… Outer darkness is reserved only for those individuals who utterly refuse to come unto Christ and repent of their sinful ways. Although the inheritors of the Telestial Kingdom must indeed first suffer for their sins prior to being able to obtain that kingdom of glory, the suffering they endure is wisely calculated to bring remorse of conscience so that they are eventually able to receive the forgiveness of Christ through sincere penitence. Doctrine and Covenants 76 refers to this process of intense spiritual suffering in the spirit prison as “the winepress of the fierceness of the wrath of Almighty God,” wherein all Christ’s former enemies — with the exception of the sons of perdition —are subdued in their rebellion against God until they are authentically remorseful and genuinely wanting to change for the better.
  18. What good would it be to suffer for one’s sins if at the end of the process the individual is still unrepentant and without remorse of conscience?
  19. Why don’t you read my and try to understand my posts on this thread so you can see for yourself that there is a perfectly reasonable and scripturally consistent answer to the question?
  20. In light of the following from the prophet Alma, do you really believe a fallen mortal man, who is stained to the hilt with immorality, filthiness and sin, can actually atone for his own sins? 9 For it is expedient that an atonement should be made; for according to the great plan of the Eternal God there must be an atonement made, or else ALL MANKIND must unavoidably perish; yea, all are hardened; yea, ALL are fallen and are lost, and must perish EXCEPT IT BE THROUGH THE ATONEMENT which it is expedient should be made. 10 For it is expedient that there should be a great and last sacrifice; yea, not a sacrifice of man, neither of beast, neither of any manner of fowl; for; but it must be an infinite and eternal sacrifice. (Alma 34) After reading the above two verses, do you still believe a sinful man can make an infinite and eternal atoning sacrifice for his own sins?
  21. The events described in the verse you quote from Doctrine and Covenants 86 are going to occur at the time of the Second Coming of Christ, as is clearly set forth in the following verses from Doctrine and Covenants 88. 94 And another angel shall sound his trump, saying: That great church, the mother of abominations, that made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, that persecuteth the saints of God, that shed their blood—she who sitteth upon many waters, and upon the islands of the sea—behold, she is the TARES of the earth; she is bound in bundles; her bands are made strong, no man can loose them; therefore, she is ready to be burned. And he shall sound his trump both long and loud, and all nations shall hear it. 95 And there shall be silence in heaven for the space of half an hour; and immediately after shall the curtain of heaven be unfolded, as a scroll is unfolded after it is rolled up, and the face of the Lord shall be unveiled; 96 And the saints that are upon the earth, who are alive, shall be quickened (by a celestial glory) and be caught up to meet him (at his Second Coming). (Doctrine and Covenants 88) Meanwhile, both Doctrine and Covenants 76 and 138 declare that the unrepentant wicked, who have not come unto Christ and received of his redemption, are thrust into hell (a.k.a. the spirit prison) where they are taught humility by being caused to suffer for their own sins until they are contrite enough to willingly and gratefully receive forgiveness through the atonement of Christ that they might thereby escape the everlasting fires of divine judgement pronounced against sin that cannot be escaped without authentic faith in Christ and sincere repentance. 104 These are they who suffer the wrath of God on earth. 105 These are they who suffer the vengeance of eternal fire. 106 These are they who are cast down to hell and suffer the wrath of Almighty God, UNTIL the fulness of times, when Christ shall have subdued all enemies under his feet, and shall have perfected his work; 107 When he shall deliver up the kingdom, and present it unto the Father, spotless, saying: I have overcome and have trodden the wine-press alone, even the wine-press of the fierceness of the wrath of Almighty God. 108 Then shall he be crowned with the crown of his glory, to sit on the throne of his power to reign forever and ever. 109 But behold, and lo, we saw the glory and the inhabitants of the telestial world, that they were as innumerable as the stars in the firmament of heaven, or as the sand upon the seashore; 110 And heard the voice of the Lord saying: These all shall bow the knee, and every tongue shall confess to him who sits upon the throne forever and ever; (Doctrine and Covenants 76) Finally, those numbered among the tares, who steadfastly refuse to repent and receive redemption through the Savior, are consigned to remain in the unquenchable fires of hell forever. 32 They are they who are the sons of perdition, of whom I say that it had been better for them never to have been born; 33 For they are vessels of wrath, doomed to suffer the wrath of God, with the devil and his angels in eternity; 34 Concerning whom I have said there is no forgiveness in this world nor in the world to come— (D&C 76)
  22. Hi there, Alec! So that you won’t be taken by surprise, please be aware of the fact that there are dissident current members and bitter former members of the Church who participate on this board who spend a a significant amount of their time knocking the Church and attempting to undermine testimonies in order to validate their unbelief. The sophistries of these individuals have no impact upon my testimony because I possess the ability to think critically while simultaneously possessing a profound knowledge of the doctrines and mysteries of the restored kingdom of God on earth. But if after being warned you still want to participate, that’s up to you, but please be aware that there is no substitute for diligent scripture study and personal revelation through the gift of the Holy Ghost. And please understand that almost no point of contention here is ever successfully fleshed out and settled on this board; rather, in almost all instances, each individual walks away from a particular discussion hardened in their initial positions. And remember, the Lord warns his people that contention is not of him because enmity is almost always destructive to the Spirit and to spiritual harmony.
  23. I’m trying to understand why some participants on this board can’t seem to get it into their heads that the Church is going to need a tremendous amount of capital, resources, and real estate if the prophecies pertaining to the establishment of Zion and the New Jerusalem are going to be realized. I’m surmising the main reason why you and the others are so exercised over the Church’s prudent and absolutely essential accumulation of wealth is because the lot of you simply don’t believe the prophecies concerning the establishment of Zion are going to be fulfilled, esteeming them to be fairytales. Meanwhile for those who believe as I do, we are hoping the Church will greatly increase it’s relatively meager present wealth because the building of Zion — which is going to be the creation of a virtual new nation state — will be an incredibly expensive and arduous undertaking, especially while God’s judgements of destruction are being poured out upon the wicked throughout the world.. Perhaps you’ll think I ‘m crazy, but I guarantee you that in the future the Church’s critics are going to be continue to be outraged, only this time they’re going to be complaining that the Church leaders didn’t accumulate enough wealth when they knew ahead of time how costly it was going to be to fulfill the Lord’s purposes. But to be frank, I’m getting so weary of listening to all the faithless naysayers and apostates on this board constantly harp on things about which they know so little that I’m going to be cutting my participation here to a bear minimum. The whole process is looking more and more like the currently popularized definition of insanity.
  24. In 2020, President Nelson testified that the earth shattering events prophesied in 1 Nephi 14 are going to be literally fulfilled and witnessed by people presently alive in this current generation. Is it any wonder, then, that the leaders of the Church are wisely preparing for the imminent day when God is going to pour out this judgements upon this wicked world without measure? As I’ve previously said, the faithful, testimony bearing members of the Church actually believe what President Nelson so solemnly testified to in General Conference, so you are therefore setting yourself up for endless anger and frustration because, like it or not, the believing members of the Church fervently believe the prophesied judgements are soon going to be poured out without measure and they know they’d be blind fools to ignore or make light of such gravely serious prophetic warnings. Truly Paul prophesied well when he warned that the purposes and designs of God can never be known by the natural man. The following excerpt from Nephi’s vision is what we faithful members believe, so get over it if you can because without giving we Latter-Day Saints who believe in the Book of Mormon some courteous respect you are likely dooming yourself to a lifetime of unhealthy outrage. 11 And it came to pass that I looked and beheld the whore of all the earth, and she sat upon many waters; and she had dominion over all the earth, among all nations, kindreds, tongues, and people. 12 And it came to pass that I beheld the church of the Lamb of God, and its numbers were few, because of the wickedness and abominations of the whore who sat upon many waters; nevertheless, I beheld that the church of the Lamb, who were the saints of God, were also upon all the face of the earth; and their dominions upon the face of the earth were small, because of the wickedness of the great whore whom I saw. 13 And it came to pass that I beheld that the great mother of abominations did gather together multitudes upon the face of all the earth, among all the nations of the Gentiles, to fight against the Lamb of God. 14 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, beheld the power of the Lamb of God, that it descended upon the saints of the church of the Lamb, and upon the covenant people of the Lord, who were scattered upon all the face of the earth; and they were armed with righteousness and with the power of God in great glory. 15 And it came to pass that I beheld that the wrath of God was poured out upon that great and abominable church, insomuch that there were wars and rumors of wars among all the nations and kindreds of the earth. 16 And as there began to be wars and rumors of wars among all the nations which belonged to the mother of abominations, the angel spake unto me, saying: Behold, the wrath of God is upon the mother of harlots; and behold, thou seest all these things— 17 And when the day cometh that the wrath of God is poured out upon the mother of harlots, which is the great and abominable church of all the earth, whose founder is the devil, then, at that day, the work of the Father shall commence, in preparing the way for the fulfilling of his covenants, which he hath made to his people who are of the house of Israel. (1 Nephi 14)
  25. The greatest charitable cause the Church is now actively preparing to fully participate in is the establishment of Zion and the city of the New Jerusalem. I order to fulfill the many prophecies of LDS scripture that powerfully testify the Zion of peace and safety will arise in the midst of a world that has otherwise descended into constant worldwide warfare and frequent cataclysmic natural disasters that will come as a consequence of wholesale rebellion against God and ripened iniquity. The reason why you think the way you do is likely because you don’t believe the Church is true and therefore reject any idea of the establishment of the prophesied Zion of peace, safety and refuge. In spite of how you think and how angry you now feel, you’ll have to get used to the fact that there are millions of believing Latter-Day Saints, including the leaders of the Church, who have faith that the prophecies concerning the establishment of Zion are real and going to be gloriously fulfilled. Therefore you’re either going to have to be resign yourself to remain in a state of constant outrage or learn to relax by forgiving the Latter-Day Saints for believing in their own scriptures. It’s going to require a tremendous amount of funds, capital and resources for the saints to be able to fully establish Zion and her stakes all over the world while the rest of planet earth descends into the terrible tribulations of the last days prophesied by the Lord Jesus Christ himself. So for your own peace of mind why not suspend the outrage you feel and develop a more charitable and compassionate “let’s see” attitude? Is it not possible to develop a live and let live attitude with a people who honestly believe the only lasting way to improve the condition of the people of the world is to bring them to God in faith, love and humility?
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