Why do we Trust God?

[bluebell]

In a different thread another poster mentioned (I think it was @MustardSeed) something to the effect of how they are glad that God doesn't ask them to trust Him without first proving He is trustworthy (not a direct quote but that's what I got from the post and since I can't remember which thread it was in I can't go back and look I'm hopeful I'm remembering correctly).

That statement got me thinking because my first reaction was that it seems like God expects me to trust Him all the time without first showing me that it's a good idea.  I'm not doubting the personal experience of the other poster, but for me, it hasn't been my experience.  Maybe that's because God treats us differently because we need different things, or maybe we just perceive things differently.  It doesn't really matter why my feelings are the opposite of theirs. 

Their experience made me wonder how other people view God and trust, and to want to discuss why trusting God is so dang hard for a lot of us.

In a book written by Emily Belle Freeman (she is currently the YW's general president) she writes about how hard it is for her to trust God, how hard it is for her to believe that God is good.  She holds back on trusting Him fully because so often His way is not her way, and her way always feels like the safest, best way to her.  Even when she learns that her way wasn't the best, and that God's way in some specific issue was actually better, she still struggles with trusting Him the next time some trial hits and she needs to.

She says:

Quote

 

"My wall of distrust may be more powerful than I had let myself believe.  It has the power to hold me back; it could cause me to eventually walk away, to turn away from God, if I am not careful.  I see it in my unmet expectations.  How I worry that God will disappoint me.  I am blind to the reality that His choice could be choicer, His ending could be endless, His best could be better than anything I could ever imagine.  So I set up my finish line, I design my happy ending, I map out my Promised Land.  I'm not sure I trust Him to do it. 

"When the expectation is not realized, when the happy ending doesn't come in my way, in my timing, I am disappointed.  I am disappointed in my life, and my reality, and my God.  

"I know exactly what I am afraid of.  If I give this to God, completely to God, I can't trust what the outcome will be.  The person will die, we'll lose the house, the answer will take too long, I won't be strong enough.   It doesn't take me long before I realize the truth.  Maybe I am not looking for a God; maybe I want a butler.  Do I really want an authentic relationship with God?  Because that relationship will require defining our roles---knowing who God is and knowing who I am. 

"There is something terrifying about letting God be God."

 

I say amen to that.  Most of the time I find it absolutely terrifying to trust God, and for all the reasons she listed above.  I want to trust Him, and the times that I have (kind of been forced) to trust Him in the past, He hasn't let me down, not really.  It might have felt like it in the moment but with enough time and distance, the picture in the rearview mirror made perfect sense.

But none of that matters the next time trust is required.  I still feel like He's always asking me to jump without seeing the net.

How do we get to a place where we trust God first, and not after He has shown that in this instance He knows best?  How do we let God be God in our lives?

[Benjamin McGuire]

Mark 9:24 comes to us in the story of a man who is desperate to find a cure for his son - who had been suffering for many years. And Jesus says to him (verse 23): "If thou canst believe, all things are possible to him that believeth." To which the father responds: "Lord, I believe; help thou mine unbelief." This passage fascinates me on many levels. After all, the father wants to believe - he chooses to believe - and yet, he has potentially overwhelming doubts. The miracle requires belief - and yet, as the father suggests, it can create belief as well.

For me, the Gospel message was never intended for those who have no questions, who have no doubts. They apparently don't need it. It is for the rest of us, with our profound senses of inadequacy. It is meant for those of us who are plagued by doubts. Those of us with potentially overdeveloped senses of skepticism.

For me, the most important aspect of my faith is in my personal encounter with God. It is this personal encounter that changes us. It is personal revelation that affects us far more than any book of scripture or any conference talk. And that personal encounter doesn't require me to to abandon an analytical approach to the gospel. And if my search leaves me with doubts and concerns, there is comfort for me in the realization that God isn't going to judge me by some external criteria but by what I do with what I know (doubts and all).

I think this is difficult because we want certainty. We don't like ambiguity. Yet learning to be comfortable with not knowing is, I think, an important part of the religious experience - and I think it is a part of this idea of learning to trust God before we know.

[CV75]

59 minutes ago, bluebell said:

In a different thread another poster mentioned (I think it was @MustardSeed) something to the effect of how they are glad that God doesn't ask them to trust Him without first proving He is trustworthy (not a direct quote but that's what I got from the post and since I can't remember which thread it was in I can't go back and look I'm hopeful I'm remembering correctly).

That statement got me thinking because my first reaction was that it seems like God expects me to trust Him all the time without first showing me that it's a good idea.  I'm not doubting the personal experience of the other poster, but for me, it hasn't been my experience.  Maybe that's because God treats us differently because we need different things, or maybe we just perceive things differently.  It doesn't really matter why my feelings are the opposite of theirs. 

Their experience made me wonder how other people view God and trust, and to want to discuss why trusting God is so dang hard for a lot of us.

In a book written by Emily Belle Freeman (she is currently the YW's general president) she writes about how hard it is for her to trust God, how hard it is for her to believe that God is good.  She holds back on trusting Him fully because so often His way is not her way, and her way always feels like the safest, best way to her.  Even when she learns that her way wasn't the best, and that God's way in some specific issue was actually better, she still struggles with trusting Him the next time some trial hits and she needs to.

She says:

I say amen to that.  Most of the time I find it absolutely terrifying to trust God, and for all the reasons she listed above.  I want to trust Him, and the times that I have (kind of been forced) to trust Him in the past, He hasn't let me down, not really.  It might have felt like it in the moment but with enough time and distance, the picture in the rearview mirror made perfect sense.

But none of that matters the next time trust is required.  I still feel like He's always asking me to jump without seeing the net.

How do we get to a place where we trust God first, and not after He has shown that in this instance He knows best?  How do we let God be God in our lives?

I think Alma 32 provides the template for getting to a place where we trust God first. This method has to be repeated each time faith is answered with knowledge. Using a biochemical metaphor, knowledge is the substrate upon which new faith binds and acts in the faith-knowledge complex, which transforms into the growing covenant relationship with God. Because the complex is more complex than that (a faith-hope-knowledge complex), hope (a desire to believe) can also serve as the substrate. The growing covenant relationship with God can be viewed as a faith-hope-charity (love)-knowledge complex, each element serving as both enzyme and substrate.

Sometimes people do not know it is God they are trusting as they abide by their conscience (the light of Christ), but they immediately or instinctively trust this light it because the initial sensation is pleasant. As they realize the pleasant fruits of enjoying and acting on this light, they trust the process when their conscience is again stimulated. Sometimes they have to learn the hard way, and though these fruits are bitter, they put the sweeter fruits in perspective. As they hear the gospel message, they are prepared to tie it to God and the trust continues to grow from there.

Edited March 29, 2025 by CV75

[Calm]

10 minutes ago, Benjamin McGuire said:

Mark 9:24 comes to us in the story of a man who is desperate to find a cure for his son - who had been suffering for many years. And Jesus says to him (verse 23): "If thou canst believe, all things are possible to him that believeth." To which the father responds: "Lord, I believe; help thou mine unbelief." This passage fascinates me on many levels. After all, the father wants to believe - he chooses to believe - and yet, he has potentially overwhelming doubts. The miracle requires belief - and yet, as the father suggests, it can create belief as well.

I love this story.

I also hate it at times because of what can be inferred when the miracle of healing does not occur.  Would love to hear your thoughts on that.

Quote

For me, the most important aspect of my faith is in my personal encounter with God. It is this personal encounter that changes us. It is personal revelation that affects us far more than any book of scripture or any conference talk. And that personal encounter doesn't require me to to abandon an analytical approach to the gospel. And if my search leaves me with doubts and concerns, there is comfort for me in the realization that God isn't going to judge me by some external criteria but by what I do with what I know (doubts and all).

This really resonates with me, btw.

Edited March 29, 2025 by Calm

[The Nehor]

I am not sure exactly what trusting God is. Trust God to do what?

Trusting God to do what is best for me is kind of horrifying. If that is what is going on what is best for me seems to involve a ton of pain, loss, and bitterness. Hooray?

I don’t trust that in any case. God regularly seems to need me to suffer some loss or setback to benefit someone else. Sometimes this is voluntary on my part. Sometimes not. So it is not what is best for me but what is best for everyone and I am only a small part of that. If the only way to save a hundred of His other children was to mess with and destroy parts of or all of my life should I expect God to do it? Probably.

Sometimes it feels like God is asking me to jump when there is no net and I get the impression it is even presumptuous for me to expect that God should be expected to have a net there at all. Maybe hitting the ground hard is part of God’s plan for my improvement or because it will benefit other people in some way.

So what is there to trust in? I trust that when I am in trouble that members of my family and many of my friends will do what they can to help. I have no idea if God will do anything at all.

[Calm]

18 hours ago, The Nehor said:

Maybe hitting the ground hard is part of God’s plan for my improvement or because it will benefit other people in some way.

Many people don’t see blessings occurring in this life (whether it’s because the blessings aren’t happening or because they can’t recognize them, the result is the same in terms of developing trust), so the principle they get taught when they ask “where are the blessings?” is that the blessings will come in the next life if not received in this one.

Scriptures say experiment on the word, test your faith, one verse (Malachi 3:10 iirc) even says test God (in regards to tithing) with the idea, I believe, that this testing will result in a reason to further trust God…. Which means some blessing is anticipated to be received and recognized before the next step of expanding your faith occurs.

But if they don’t receive the blessing in this life, how does that help them trust now?

If the next explanation they receive is they are receiving blessings, but just don’t recognize them (iow it’s their fault they don’t see a positive result), how does that make the test of faith a test they can rely on?

I haven’t been able to figure this out.

Edited March 30, 2025 by Calm

[MustardSeed]

Found it: 

“

I do believe God is looking for accountability when we repent. 
 

The church does not value accountability with regards to its own history. We have been told that expressly.  Therefore, trust is naturally eroded, even when changes are made.
How are we supposed to trust?

” just have faith.” 

I am so grateful that nobody else in my world demands I trust without trust being earned. 
 

I don’t even believe God requires that of me.  ”

———
I might’ve been thinking of something specific when I wrote this, but I don’t recall.

certainly, the scriptures and plenty of pulpit talks would suggest otherwise.  
 

I don’t think God expects me to trust human beings that have proven themselves untrustworthy.  Maybe that’s what I was thinking when I wrote that?  Maybe if something’s not important enough to remember I shouldn’t write it down. 
 

I don’t expect anything from God honestly. He owes me nothing so I suppose me trusting him is a moot point.  God‘s ways are not predictable. In fact, I am of the opinion that God just does not get involved.   I’m just expected to live righteously and the consequences of all of that are to be determined in the next life.  

[bluebell]

8 hours ago, Benjamin McGuire said:

Mark 9:24 comes to us in the story of a man who is desperate to find a cure for his son - who had been suffering for many years. And Jesus says to him (verse 23): "If thou canst believe, all things are possible to him that believeth." To which the father responds: "Lord, I believe; help thou mine unbelief." This passage fascinates me on many levels. After all, the father wants to believe - he chooses to believe - and yet, he has potentially overwhelming doubts. The miracle requires belief - and yet, as the father suggests, it can create belief as well.

For me, the Gospel message was never intended for those who have no questions, who have no doubts. They apparently don't need it. It is for the rest of us, with our profound senses of inadequacy. It is meant for those of us who are plagued by doubts. Those of us with potentially overdeveloped senses of skepticism.

For me, the most important aspect of my faith is in my personal encounter with God. It is this personal encounter that changes us. It is personal revelation that affects us far more than any book of scripture or any conference talk. And that personal encounter doesn't require me to to abandon an analytical approach to the gospel. And if my search leaves me with doubts and concerns, there is comfort for me in the realization that God isn't going to judge me by some external criteria but by what I do with what I know (doubts and all).

I think this is difficult because we want certainty. We don't like ambiguity. Yet learning to be comfortable with not knowing is, I think, an important part of the religious experience - and I think it is a part of this idea of learning to trust God before we know.

That's always been one of my favorite scripture stories.  I've tried to cultivate an honest relationship with God, and telling God that it's hard to believe is a very honest pronouncement.  

I agree with what you said about personal experiences.  I've had many.  Many where His presence and intervention cannot be denied, where I have felt Him in the moment with me.  I think that's what annoys me so much about the question of trust.  Why do I struggle to trust Him so much when I have so many personal experiences with Him?  

I find my weakness in that incredibly frustrating.  It always feels like one step forward and two steps back and I'd really like to stop doing that tango but I can't figure out how.

[bluebell]

7 hours ago, The Nehor said:

I am not sure exactly what trusting God is. Trust God to do what?

Trusting God to do what is best for me is kind of horrifying. If that is what is going on what is best for me seems to involve a ton of pain, loss, and bitterness. Hooray?

I don’t trust that in any case. God regularly seems to need me to suffer some loss or setback to benefit someone else. Sometimes this is voluntary on my part. Sometimes not. So it is not what is best for me but what is best for everyone and I am only a small part of that. If the only way to save a hundred of His other children was to mess with and destroy parts of or all of my life should I expect God to do it? Probably.

Sometimes it feels like God is asking me to jump when there is no net and I get the impression it is even presumptuous for me to expect that God should be expected to have a net there at all. Maybe hitting the ground hard is part of God’s plan for my improvement or because it will benefit other people in some way.

So what is there to trust in? I trust that when I am in trouble that members of my family and many of my friends will do what they can to help. I have no idea if God will do anything at all.

That's a good question.  I guess trust God to be good.  Trust Him to not give serpents and stones--to not give useless gifts or harmful gifts--but to give useful, blessings and not curses.

If God is good, then why is trusting Him to know what is best for us kind of horrifying (and I agree that a lot of times it really is!).  That's what I struggle to understand.

[bluebell]

5 hours ago, MustardSeed said:

Found it: 

“

I do believe God is looking for accountability when we repent. 
 

The church does not value accountability with regards to its own history. We have been told that expressly.  Therefore, trust is naturally eroded, even when changes are made.
How are we supposed to trust?

” just have faith.” 

I am so grateful that nobody else in my world demands I trust without trust being earned. 
 

I don’t even believe God requires that of me.  ”

———
I might’ve been thinking of something specific when I wrote this, but I don’t recall.

certainly, the scriptures and plenty of pulpit talks would suggest otherwise.  
 

I don’t think God expects me to trust human beings that have proven themselves untrustworthy.  Maybe that’s what I was thinking when I wrote that?  Maybe if something’s not important enough to remember I shouldn’t write it down. 
 

I don’t expect anything from God honestly. He owes me nothing so I suppose me trusting him is a moot point.  God‘s ways are not predictable. In fact, I am of the opinion that God just does not get involved.   I’m just expected to live righteously and the consequences of all of that are to be determined in the next life.  

Thank you for finding your quote!

Speaking only for myself, I don't know anyone--not even the people who I know love me more than themselves--who hasn't proven themselves to be untrustworthy at some time or another.  Not on purpose, just as an aspect of being human.  I can always find some reason not to trust someone, especially if the thing I need to trust them on is something that I don't agree with or don't want to do.  I think my emotions are too tied up in the 'can they be trusted' question to get an honest answer out of me.   It's too easy for me to equate "Trustworthy" with "agrees with me/gives me what I want".  And that's probably part of my problem.  But it's not a problem that I've been able to overcome.

Thinking about your last paragraph, maybe that's part of my issue too.  Because I very much expect things from God.  And often times I get them.  I think there is a part of me that does feel like He owes me. Not that I should get my way all the time, but that at least some of the time, I should (even when I know that's not how it works and that I don't actually deserve them, I still feel that way sometimes).  Because I do all the things I'm supposed to do and sometimes it feels like I'm due blessings.  And then it's easy to get angry and bitter when it doesn't go how I want.

But of course it's not just that I'm due blessings, it's that I'm due what I want because that feels like it would be a blessing to me.  That is such an obviously immature way of thinking but I always seem to start there (even though eventually I usually end somewhere else) and I hate that I keep starting there.

 

[let’s roll]

This thread makes me sad.

[MustardSeed]

49 minutes ago, bluebell said:

But of course it's not just that I'm due blessings, it's that I'm due what I want because that feels like it would be a blessing to me

I slipped in to that last week- we are experiencing unemployment in our home and THE perfect job came along.  Crazy alignment with husbands qualifications- PERFECT.  We prayed, payed tons of tithing, celebrated, knew it was in the bag. 
Nope.  
I was so arrogant to assume such!  
We are running out of time- 

[bluebell]

42 minutes ago, let’s roll said:

This thread makes me sad.

I’m sorry. It doesn’t make me sad, if that makes you feel better.  I see this as the process necessary to get to a place of consistent trust in God.  I don’t find any sadness in that journey.   But I’m committed to my relationship with God so this kind of discussion is useful to me, not risky.

But for others, i know the topic can be a sad one. But still useful I think.

[bluebell]

24 minutes ago, MustardSeed said:

I slipped in to that last week- we are experiencing unemployment in our home and THE perfect job came along.  Crazy alignment with husbands qualifications- PERFECT.  We prayed, payed tons of tithing, celebrated, knew it was in the bag. 
Nope.  
I was so arrogant to assume such!  
We are running out of time- 

Most of my major fights with God over the last 20 years have been over unemployment and underemployment. I say that only to express that I have so much empathy for what a hard desperate trial that is.  I’m so sorry your family is having to go through it.  

[MustardSeed]

26 minutes ago, bluebell said:

Most of my major fights with God over the last 20 years have been over unemployment and underemployment. I say that only to express that I have so much empathy for what a hard desperate trial that is.  I’m so sorry your family is having to go through it.  

Thanks- I’m afraid he has aged out 5 years too soon. 

[Rain]

I've pretty much always trusted God. Proverbs 3:5-6 is a balm to me because I know I can trust him. I often don't trust myself. I don't trust other people who tell me about God - I've always needed to verify what they were saying with Him.  Even with my husband, whom I trust more than anyone.

The one major time when I didn't trust God was during several years when I heard nothing from him... except one thing. Nothing about selling and buying a house. Nothing about schools for kids. My health. Job problems with my husband. Etc. Things were not going well with my son and the one thing I heard from God was "love him".  And that's the only meaningful time I didn't trust God. The only time I remember.

Loving him couldn't be enough. I needed to do something!  No, loving him was enough and things would have gone better if I had trusted and done that instead of trying to fix everything. 

Why can I trust God when other people can't?  I don't know.  Why do I have struggles others don't have? (rhetorical). I absolutely get why others struggle to trust though.

 

Edited March 30, 2025 by Rain

[manol]

13 hours ago, bluebell said:

it seems like God expects me to trust Him all the time without first showing me that it's a good idea.

I hadn't stopped to think about it until I read your post, but whether or not to “trust God” is no longer something I give much thought to.

For most of my life my paradigm might have been called “the world of events”, which goes something like this: “If the event I want happens, then I can be happy. And if the event I want doesn't happen, OR if an event that I do not want happens, then I cannot be happy.” Having my relationship with God dependent on outcomes did not work out well for me.

My paradigm is now more what might be called “the world of energy”, which goes something like this: “I can deliberately choose the energy I experience independent of events and outcomes.” Well in practice I'm still not 100% successful and it doesn't happen instantly, but I'm pretty much able to make a major shift when I make and sustain the deliberately-focused effort. Unfortunately this is not something I know how to describe in language consistent with an LDS paradigm.

I used to think Earth life was a test to see if we are worthy to return to God. That's no longer something I worry about, but I'm not advocating for anyone else to adopt this viewpoint.

Instead, I now see Earth life as a series of opportunities (many of which come in the form of challenges, situations, disasters, undesired outcomes, whatever) to choose the highest energy and highest response I am able to in the moment. Imo everything is an opportunity to align to an energy, be it high or low. Again I'm not advocating anyone else adopt this viewpoint... but for me it has utility, so I will try to use it until something better comes along.

To give an example, there is an area of my life that I do not have a satisfactory answer about. So the situation of “not having a satisfactory answer” is an opportunity for me to choose between the path of least resistance (resentment and despair) and something higher (in this case, merely seeing this situation as “opportunity” is at a much higher energy level than “resentment and despair”).

And I realize the word “energy” as I'm using it isn't found in the LDS lexicon. So here are some related ideas that might be more familiar: "Be of good cheer"; "fear not"; "have faith"; "peace be with you"; "love one another"; “forgive all men”; "love God completely".

I am well aware that what I'm talking about is NOT an exercise in logical thought. Rather, it is an exercise in free agency; specifically, the freedom to choose the highest state of mind one can in the moment despite any and all evidence to the contrary.

Imo the Divine is encountered at a strata of energy which is always present but which has been ignored.

Edited March 30, 2025 by manol

[bluebell]

7 hours ago, manol said:

I hadn't stopped to think about it until I read your post, but whether or not to “trust God” is no longer something I give much thought to.

For most of my life my paradigm might have been called “the world of events”, which goes something like this: “If the event I want happens, then I can be happy. And if the event I want doesn't happen, OR if an event that I do not want happens, then I cannot be happy.” Having my relationship with God dependent on outcomes did not work out well for me.

My paradigm is now more what might be called “the world of energy”, which goes something like this: “I can deliberately choose the energy I experience independent of events and outcomes.” Well in practice I'm still not 100% successful and it doesn't happen instantly, but I'm pretty much able to make a major shift when I make and sustain the deliberately-focused effort. Unfortunately this is not something I know how to describe in language consistent with an LDS paradigm.

I used to think Earth life was a test to see if we are worthy to return to God. That's no longer something I worry about, but I'm not advocating for anyone else to adopt this viewpoint.

Instead, I now see Earth life as a series of opportunities (many of which come in the form of challenges, situations, disasters, undesired outcomes, whatever) to choose the highest energy and highest response I am able to in the moment. Imo everything is an opportunity to align to an energy, be it high or low. Again I'm not advocating anyone else adopt this viewpoint... but for me it has utility, so I will try to use it until something better comes along.

To give an example, there is an area of my life that I do not have a satisfactory answer about. So the situation of “not having a satisfactory answer” is an opportunity for me to choose between the path of least resistance (resentment and despair) and something higher (in this case, merely seeing this situation as “opportunity” is at a much higher energy level than “resentment and despair”).

And I realize the word “energy” as I'm using it isn't found in the LDS lexicon. So here are some related ideas that might be more familiar: "Be of good cheer"; "fear not"; "have faith"; "peace be with you"; "love one another"; “forgive all men”; "love God completely".

I am well aware that what I'm talking about is NOT an exercise in logical thought. Rather, it is an exercise in free agency; specifically, the freedom to choose the highest state of mind one can in the moment despite any and all evidence to the contrary.

Imo the Divine is encountered at a strata of energy which is always present but which has been ignored.

Thanks for sharing your journey, I see a lot of wisdom in it.

I've been trying to practice having faith in God (or Christ) rather than having faith in an outcome.  It has been the only way that I've found to feel authentic in my faith journey.  Because pretending that everything is going to be ok doesn't feel like faith, it feels like wishing.  And an outcome based relationship with God felt very immature to me as well.  Like I was a 12 year old who was constantly threatening to take my ball and go home if I didn't get my way.

So I've been trying to practice an "if not" approach to trust.  Where I trust that God will save me (in whatever way that looks like), that He will intervene, that He will answer when it's needed, but "if not" then I will still trust that His plans are better than mine.   Sometimes I am better at this than others.

[MustardSeed]

11 minutes ago, bluebell said:

So I've been trying to practice an "if not" approach to trust.  Where I trust that God will save me (in whatever way that looks like), that He will intervene, that He will answer when it's needed, but "if not" then I will still trust that His plans are better than mine.   Sometimes I am better at this than others.

I wonder where there is the corrected version of this to use as a model. Sometimes people will tell the story, I prayed for this, but then I didn’t get it so I trusted God and God gave me more than I could ever imagine.
 

Then there is somebody like my client who has been holding out for God‘s plan for as long as I’ve known her and still her life is pure hell.

The people who I know that are happiest are not necessarily religious. They do believe in God. But they don’t pray for outcomes. Instead, God just tells them of their worth and thereby God teaches them to love others wholeheartedly.  God teaches them to be grateful. These are the people I observe are happiest.

I really think that this is all I can count on with God because I don’t see any evidence that suggests productivity otherwise. In fact, I see a lot of harm done when people, myself included, expect anything.

[bluebell]

8 minutes ago, MustardSeed said:

I wonder where there is the corrected version of this to use as a model. Sometimes people will tell the story, I prayed for this, but then I didn’t get it so I trusted God and God gave me more than I could ever imagine.
 

Maybe Abinadi?  The guy was burned at the stake.

I like this talk, with the theme of "But if not".  The GA giving it shares the story of his 5 year old son who dies after getting a childhood disease.  I think it can be good to remember the times when the 'but if not' does happen in our scriptural or personal stories.  Nothing feels as lonely as believing that everyone else gets intervention but you. 

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/general-conference/2002/10/but-if-not?lang=eng. 

Quote

 

Then there is somebody like my client who has been holding out for God‘s plan for as long as I’ve known her and still her life is pure hell.

The people who I know that are happiest are not necessarily religious. They do believe in God. But they don’t pray for outcomes. Instead, God just tells them of their worth and thereby God teaches them to love others wholeheartedly.  God teaches them to be grateful. These are the people I observe are happiest.

I really think that this is all I can count on with God because I don’t see any evidence that suggests productivity otherwise. In fact, I see a lot of harm done when people, myself included, expect anything.

 

Do you believe that your client's life would be better if she was able to believe that she shouldn't expect anything from God? (sincere question)

I don't know any non religious people well enough to really gauge their happiness. It's an interesting idea.  I feel like the concepts aren't mutually exclusive, and that we can still expect things from God and also live in a space where we understand His love for us and are able to love others without seeking specific outcomes.  A space where we can be extremely grateful and still treat God as our Father.  

That's the space I've found my most happiness in but man it's hard for me to stay there!  I always seem to slip into the other spaces.

Edited March 30, 2025 by bluebell

[MustardSeed]

2 minutes ago, bluebell said:

Do you believe that your client's life would be better if she was able to believe that she shouldn't expect anything from God? (sincere question)

Great question.  Objectively, no. I would never want her life either way. But I do believe she would be happier if she weren’t  so disillusioned with life for letting her down. She definitely operates from a currency model.  To be fair, severely abused children can very easily find messages of promise of relief through righteous living in primary lessons. (OR at least 40 years ago they could) 

She won’t let herself be angry with God. But she is a very angry woman.

[MustardSeed]

6 minutes ago, bluebell said:

don't know any non religious people well enough to really gauge their happiness. It's an interesting idea. 

Interesting. I know way more members than I do nonmembers , but I am definitely more intimately connected with more non-members than I am members.

[ZealouslyStriving]

The only thing I "expect" from God is a just final reward if I have done my best to follow His commandments for my life as revealed through those whom He has called to declare His will.

I hope good things, as I interpret "good", will come to me in this life- but I don't expect it, as ultimately I don't really know God's best good for my life. His best good may be a far cry from what I expect and may look like Him ignoring me- but I know He doesn't ignore me and He loves me.

Edited March 30, 2025 by ZealouslyStriving

[MustardSeed]

11 minutes ago, bluebell said:

Maybe Abinadi?  The guy was burned at the stake.

Hardly motivating lol 😂 

[Rain]

9 hours ago, manol said:

I hadn't stopped to think about it until I read your post, but whether or not to “trust God” is no longer something I give much thought to.

For most of my life my paradigm might have been called “the world of events”, which goes something like this: “If the event I want happens, then I can be happy. And if the event I want doesn't happen, OR if an event that I do not want happens, then I cannot be happy.” Having my relationship with God dependent on outcomes did not work out well for me.

My paradigm is now more what might be called “the world of energy”, which goes something like this: “I can deliberately choose the energy I experience independent of events and outcomes.” Well in practice I'm still not 100% successful and it doesn't happen instantly, but I'm pretty much able to make a major shift when I make and sustain the deliberately-focused effort. Unfortunately this is not something I know how to describe in language consistent with an LDS paradigm.

I used to think Earth life was a test to see if we are worthy to return to God. That's no longer something I worry about, but I'm not advocating for anyone else to adopt this viewpoint.

Instead, I now see Earth life as a series of opportunities (many of which come in the form of challenges, situations, disasters, undesired outcomes, whatever) to choose the highest energy and highest response I am able to in the moment. Imo everything is an opportunity to align to an energy, be it high or low. Again I'm not advocating anyone else adopt this viewpoint... but for me it has utility, so I will try to use it until something better comes along.

To give an example, there is an area of my life that I do not have a satisfactory answer about. So the situation of “not having a satisfactory answer” is an opportunity for me to choose between the path of least resistance (resentment and despair) and something higher (in this case, merely seeing this situation as “opportunity” is at a much higher energy level than “resentment and despair”).

I've often gone through things and thought of them not as a trial, but as an adventure that will give me a story to tell. I, too, have varying success with that.  Sometimes I automatically think it and other times it never comes to mind. 

9 hours ago, manol said:

And I realize the word “energy” as I'm using it isn't found in the LDS lexicon. So here are some related ideas that might be more familiar: "Be of good cheer"; "fear not"; "have faith"; "peace be with you"; "love one another"; “forgive all men”; "love God completely".

I am well aware that what I'm talking about is NOT an exercise in logical thought. Rather, it is an exercise in free agency; specifically, the freedom to choose the highest state of mind one can in the moment despite any and all evidence to the contrary.

Imo the Divine is encountered at a strata of energy which is always present but which has been ignored.

 

Edited March 30, 2025 by Rain