CFM Jan 1-7 / we are called “Mormons.”

[Diamondhands69]

Apparently the COB has not received the memo from Pres Nelson. 
 

third video down Bishop calls Mormons “Mormons.” Also calls the church “the Mormon faith.”

Starting at 25 sec mark. 
 

is the church backing away from the “Victory for Satan “ concept?

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/come-follow-me-for-home-and-church-book-of-mormon-2024/01?lang=eng

[Calm]

Iirc, the video has been around for awhile. I am certain I have seen it before and probably a year or two or more ago (I have no sense of time).  If it was produced overseas, they may not have had as strong of direction when it was done, but my random completely speculative guess they do now. 
 

Maybe @Stargazer can share what the consistency of members in Britain is for the shift in his experience 

added: it is 12 years old, so no mistake or change of trend, just recycling materials for lessons as they have always done 

Edited January 7, 2024 by Calm

[Rain]

Was this a video filmed years ago before President Nelson asked that of members?  It seems like the I'm a Mormon videos. He is also clear of what the church is actually named. With being clear and the content of the rest of the video, (I didn't watch all of it) it doesn't bother me.  They probably thought that the rest of what was shared overode that few seconds.

Edited January 7, 2024 by Rain

[Calm]

It looks like it is from 2011, so consistent with the instruction of the time.

https://youtu.be/3dNYpXZIN_c?feature=shared

 

Edited January 7, 2024 by Calm

[webbles]

It is definitely an older video since the link at the end is for "www.mormon.org/book-of-mormon".

[Rain]

Ok, decided to listen to the rest. It also makes clear that Mormon was a prophet, that the BoM was named after him and that it contains words about Jesus and his atonement.  

I'm sorry Diamond, but I just don't see a problem considering all the content.  It just fits well. The Mormon part is practically lost with all the rest of it.

[Diamondhands69]

4 hours ago, Calm said:

It looks like it is from 2011, so consistent with the instruction of the time.

https://youtu.be/3dNYpXZIN_c?feature=shared

 

It doesn’t matter when the video was made. This CFM curriculum was published in 2023. 
 

the video clearly contradicts the church style guide (see quotes and link below):

“While the term “Mormon Church” has long been publicly applied to the Church as a nickname, it is not an authorized title, and the Church discourages its use. Thus, please avoid using the abbreviation “LDS” or the nickname “Mormon” as substitutes for the name of the Church, as in “Mormon Church,” “LDS Church,” or “Church of the Latter-day Saints.”

“When referring to Church members, the terms “members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints,” “Latter-day Saints,” “members of the Church of Jesus Christ” and “members of the restored Church of Jesus Christ” are preferred. We ask that the term “Mormons” and “LDS” not be used.”

https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/style-guide
 

The church cannot be taken seriously when they make blunders like this. Where are they getting their publishing “experts” at? 
 

anyway- I agree it is a old video and it was produced before the victory for Satan tirade. That doesn’t mean you include it in publications after the change…. Long after the change. Quality control is a concept that is obviously skimped on. 
 

this is like the rascist passages in the CFM manual “erroneously” printed  in 2020. One would think a more thorough review would occur before stuff gets published. I guess not. It is obviously too hard for the church to do. 
 

 

 

Edited January 7, 2024 by Diamondhands69

[Calm]

8 minutes ago, Diamondhands69 said:

doesn’t matter when the video was made. This CFM curriculum was published in 2023. 

That is one rigid standard.  Are you this inflexible in other areas of your life or just the Church for some reason?

Do you believe they should be deleting all the old conference talks and books that use the terminology?

[Stormin' Mormon]

At 0:26, he says "the Mormon faith."  At 0:32, he explains the Church's official name and explains why people have associated the name "Mormon" with the name of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.  

For reference, the quote from President Nelson was:

Quote

To remove the Lord’s name from the Lord’s Church is a major victory for Satan. When we discard the Savior’s name, we are subtly disregarding all that Jesus Christ did for us—even His Atonement.

This guy is not removing the Lord's name, but adding it back.  He starts with what most people know, the Mormon name, and immediately follows it up with Jesus' name within the official name of the Church.  

If there was a victory for Satan in this video, it lasted all of 6 seconds.  I hope he enjoyed it.

Edited January 7, 2024 by Stormin' Mormon

[Calm]

5 minutes ago, Stormin' Mormon said:

.  I hope he enjoyed it.

[Diamondhands69]

5 hours ago, Calm said:

That is one rigid standard.  Are you this inflexible in other areas of your life or just the Church for some reason?

the church has been proactive in telling its members and the media what to call us. To turn around and do exactly the opposite is just stupid. I’m sure the church can find another black bishop somewhere to make a video and actually follow the prophets’ guidance. 
 

As for other areas in my life?? Yea I police up what I do and how I do my work according to the best practices we have now and the laws the SEC and the IRS have on the books. As a fiduciary I don’t just get to provide guidance, advice and portfolio recommendations based on the past  or even what would now be illegal practices. The standard they put out is pretty rigid and under an investigation I don’t get to just say oh yea we used to do it that way so it’s ok. The church does that with the SEC ironically, but they have the tithing money to buy their way out of anything. 

5 hours ago, Calm said:

Do you believe they should be deleting all the old conference talks and books that use the terminology?

They have deleted talks before so it isn’t like they can’t do that. 
 

the easiest and most transparent thing to do ( they need to start with Paul H Dunn) is make a page and quarantine those talked there with an explanation of why the lie, racism, etc is inappropriate and make it openly known it is a disavowed doctrine or the church leader was lying. 
 

not hard to do, but then they have to show just how wrong church leaders have been… despite Jesus allegedly telling them what to say. It won’t happen. 

Edited January 7, 2024 by Diamondhands69

[InCognitus]

Goals for 2024:

1. Read the Book of Mormon
2. Go to the Temple regularly
3. Find old videos containing references to the "Mormon Church" and declare them to be Satanic influences
4. Claim that all articles and media content where the church is referred to as "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints" instead of the "Mormon Church" as attempts by the Church to make themselves seem like other "Christian" groups

After seeing this thread, my goal list for 2024 got a lot shorter.  I also have a lot more time on my hands.

Edited January 7, 2024 by InCognitus

[webbles]

I'm wondering what would be the preferred replacement of "Mormon faith"?  I'm guessing "Restored Gospel" but the style guide doesn't seem to address it.  "Christian faith" could also work but that feels too generic.

[Calm]

18 minutes ago, webbles said:

I'm wondering what would be the preferred replacement of "Mormon faith"?  I'm guessing "Restored Gospel" but the style guide doesn't seem to address it.  "Christian faith" could also work but that feels too generic.

Since they have not given us a comprehensive list when they could have, my guess is they are more flexible about those kinds of details as opposed to the specific name of the Church. 

[Duncan]

We never watched any videos in our class 

[CV75]

4 hours ago, Diamondhands69 said:

Apparently the COB has not received the memo from Pres Nelson. 
 

third video down Bishop calls Mormons “Mormons.” Also calls the church “the Mormon faith.”

Starting at 25 sec mark. 
 

is the church backing away from the “Victory for Satan “ concept?

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/come-follow-me-for-home-and-church-book-of-mormon-2024/01?lang=eng

Not at all, just not hiding our history and how we expressed ourselves in times past. The video may be older and include this outdated, and to some, even offensive nomenclature. As the lesson points out from the Title Page, it might be said that including this older video in 2024 lesson material is one of the "mistakes of men" if you want. Or, it might be said that it is an object lesson that, while Satan might gain a victory, God prevails and wins the war. Or, as you demonstrate, people do listen to what the Prophet says; it is a reminder of ongoing revelation.

[Pyreaux]

I don't know if Nelson wanted us to never say "Mormon", even if only to explain the Church's name 6 seconds later. Then again, I've never been keen on being an accuser of the brethren.

[Diamondhands69]

29 minutes ago, Pyreaux said:

I don't know if Nelson wanted us to never say "Mormon", even if only to explain the Church's name 6 seconds later. Then again, I've never been keen on being an accuser of the brethren.

He said not to use it as a nickname or as a replacement for the name of the church. The video does both. 
 

the style guide explains exactly what the prophet said and wants in term of how to use the word “Mormon.” The church is not following its own style guide by publishing the outdated video in a 2023 publication. 

[Diamondhands69]

2 hours ago, InCognitus said:

Goals for 2024:

1. Find old videos containing references to the "Mormon Church" and declare them to be Satanic influences

I didn’t “find” the old video. Was was being a lazy learner and reading CFM and watched the videos… there’s three of them if you bothered to look. I just recall the prophet say that was a victory for Satan yet here we are .. church sponsored no less. 

Edited January 7, 2024 by Diamondhands69

[webbles]

3 minutes ago, Diamondhands69 said:

He said not to use it as a nickname or as a replacement for the name of the church. The video does both. 
 

the style guide explains exactly what the prophet said and wants in term of how to use the word “Mormon.” The church is not following its own style guide by publishing the outdated video in a 2023 publication. 

President Nelson said to not use it as a replacement for the name of Christ.  His exact quote is:

Quote

To remove the Lord’s name from the Lord’s Church is a major victory for Satan.

Using the term "Mormon" is not a "major victory for Satan".  It is when we remove the Lord's name from the Lord's Church.  Very different things.  Calling a member of the church a Mormon is against the style guide but it isn't a "victory for Satan".

The video has four instances of Mormon.  "I am serving a Bishop in the Mormon faith" (0:26), "The church's official name is the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, we are called the Mormons, it is a nickname" (0:32), "www.mormon.org/book-of-mormon", and "Mormon Messages" (the last two at 5:10).

The first instance could possibly be against the style guide but as I asked earlier, I don't see anything in there that is related to that term.  It isn't a replacement for Christ's name since my best guess on what the style guide would want is "Restored Gospel" which doesn't have Christ's name in it either.

The second instance is a clarification of what people call us.  Also not a victory and also not against the style guide.  There is no problem with mentioning that Mormon is a nickname.

The third and fourth instance would probably be against the style guide since mormon.org has been renamed and I doubt "Mormon Messages" would be used anymore.  But the screen shows the name of the church in larger font so it is probably acceptable.

I'm not really seeing any issue with this video.

[Diamondhands69]

1 minute ago, webbles said:

President Nelson said to not use it as a replacement for the name of Christ.  His exact quote is:

Using the term "Mormon" is not a "major victory for Satan".  It is when we remove the Lord's name from the Lord's Church.  Very different things.  Calling a member of the church a Mormon is against the style guide but it isn't a "victory for Satan".

The video has four instances of Mormon.  "I am serving a Bishop in the Mormon faith" (0:26), "The church's official name is the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, we are called the Mormons, it is a nickname" (0:32), "www.mormon.org/book-of-mormon", and "Mormon Messages" (the last two at 5:10).

 

Also Pres Nelson:

“Thus, the name of the Church is not negotiable. When the Savior clearly states what the name of His Church should be and even precedes His declaration with, “Thus shall my church be called,” He is serious. And if we allow nicknames to be used or adopt or even sponsor those nicknames ourselves, He is offended.”

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/general-conference/2018/10/the-correct-name-of-the-church?lang=eng

[mfbukowski]

One of the problems: I think "Mormon Studies" might be here to stay as an academic label.

It's broader than the church and includes the offshoot branches as well, the sources for our theology etc.

A label needs to be short and all inclusive.

Other similar examples:

"African American"

"Indigenous/Native American"

And others.  Getting all of these politically correct is a problem 

 

[webbles]

16 minutes ago, Diamondhands69 said:

Also Pres Nelson:

“Thus, the name of the Church is not negotiable. When the Savior clearly states what the name of His Church should be and even precedes His declaration with, “Thus shall my church be called,” He is serious. And if we allow nicknames to be used or adopt or even sponsor those nicknames ourselves, He is offended.”

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/general-conference/2018/10/the-correct-name-of-the-church?lang=eng

That's why I said the last two items were potentially problematic since it is owning the nickname (Mormon Messages and mormon.org).  But I don't see a problem with saying "The church's official name is the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, we are called the Mormons, it is a nickname".  That isn't owning the nickname.  That is helping clarify to those who know of us by the nickname Mormon.  Many people only know us as Mormons.  So saying "I'm from the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, also known as the Mormons" clarifies the real name of the church.

Edited January 7, 2024 by webbles

[webbles]

By the way, if you want a more egregious use of "Mormon" on the church's news site, try https://news-jm.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/mormonism-101.  It is on the Jamaica site and is full of the term Mormon and Mormonism.

[Diamondhands69]

16 minutes ago, webbles said:

That's why I said the last two items were potentially problematic since it is owning the nickname (Mormon Messages and mormon.org).  But I don't see a problem with saying "The church's official name is the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, we are called the Mormons, it is a nickname".  That isn't owning the nickname.  That is helping clarify to those who know of us by the nickname Mormon.  Many people only know us as Mormons.  So saying "I'm from the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, also known as the Mormons" clarifies the real name of the church.

Yep.. since it is owning the nickname the video is inappropriate to use nowadays. I’m betting it gets yanked from the online version soon.