Pres. Nelson "Back to Work"

[SeekingUnderstanding]

13 minutes ago, CV75 said:

No, commending is fully voluntary.
 

So you disagree with the OP too. Good to hear. 

13 minutes ago, CV75 said:

But improved understanding between parties that disagree is often advanced when favorable attributes and commonalities are recognized. I think the gospel and analogous principles help people accomplish this. Tearing down and minimizing another's positive attributes are voluntary too. Doing so as a result of feelings over the disagreement in policy is conflating and unproductive.

I’m not the one calling people who disagree with me lazy learners, or accusing them of following doctrine of devils and being deceived by seducing spirits… Does that count as tearing down?

Edited November 13 by SeekingUnderstanding

[CV75]

14 hours ago, SeekingUnderstanding said:

So you disagree with the OP too. Good to hear. 

I’m not the one calling people who disagree with me lazy learners, or accusing them of following doctrine of devils and being deceived by seducing spirits… Does that count as tearing down?

I don't think the OP was advocating coercion.

I think President Nelson's remarks are equally directed, as applicable (as in, "if the shoe fits, wear it"), to those who do not agree with him as to those who agree with him. There are at least a couple of belief/faith-related reactions to these words as understood in proper context (the contexts here being learning by the Spirit and scriptural text): one is to repent, and the other is not to repent. Now there may be various other points of disagreement, and particular points you have in mind, but I'm speaking generally, and improved understanding of context is certainly advanced when his favorable attributes and commonalities are recognized while facing disagreement over doctrine, approaches to learning by faith, and even over the words he used.

[SeekingUnderstanding]

8 hours ago, CV75 said:

points of disagreement, and particular points you have in mind, but I'm speaking generally, and improved understanding of context is certainly advanced when his favorable attributes and commonalities are recognized while facing disagreement over doctrine, approaches to learning by faith

Tell you what. Point me to where Nelson does this (recognizes commonalities, and favorable attributes) with former members of the church and I’ll give it a try. 

[Nofear]

41 minutes ago, SeekingUnderstanding said:

Tell you what. Point me to where Nelson does this (recognizes commonalities, and favorable attributes) with former members of the church and I’ll give it a try. 

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/general-conference/2023/04/47nelson?lang=eng

Peacemakers Needed

Edited November 14 by Nofear

[SeekingUnderstanding]

27 minutes ago, Nofear said:

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/general-conference/2023/04/47nelson?lang=eng

Peacemakers Needed

Was there a portion in there where he calls out positive attributes of those who have left the church? I’m thinking along the lines of:

“Many of you have loved ones who have left the church. While it breaks our heart, we must commend them for living according to their convictions?”

Or

”Some might be tempted to call a child or spouse who left the church a lazy learner. We mustn’t do such things. In a fallen world we must accept that good wonderful people can look at the same evidence and come to different conclusions”

 

Something like that??

[CV75]

14 hours ago, SeekingUnderstanding said:

Tell you what. Point me to where Nelson does this (recognizes commonalities, and favorable attributes) with former members of the church and I’ll give it a try. 

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/2018/04/as-we-go-forward-together?lang=eng Note the last 3 para graphs, which convey a consistent theme of his.

[CV75]

13 hours ago, SeekingUnderstanding said:

Was there a portion in there where he calls out positive attributes of those who have left the church? I’m thinking along the lines of:

“Many of you have loved ones who have left the church. While it breaks our heart, we must commend them for living according to their convictions?”

Or

”Some might be tempted to call a child or spouse who left the church a lazy learner. We mustn’t do such things. In a fallen world we must accept that good wonderful people can look at the same evidence and come to different conclusions”

 

Something like that??

I think he says the same thing, just better than you do! 

[SeekingUnderstanding]

13 minutes ago, CV75 said:

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/2018/04/as-we-go-forward-together?lang=eng Note the last 3 para graphs, which convey a consistent theme of his.

Please quote exactly where he commends former members. Only the third to last paragraph applies to former members and there is no praise, only a call to repentance. 

Edited November 14 by SeekingUnderstanding

[CV75]

Christ Is Risen; Faith in Him Will Move Mountains

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/general-conference/2021/04/49nelson?lang=eng

Check out the 5th, 11th and 15th paragraphs that show our commonality and possession of a particle of faith. The tone conveys his approval and acceptance of e eryone and anyone possessing this trait, regardless of where we stand in our level of belief in the restored gospel.

[SeekingUnderstanding]

12 minutes ago, CV75 said:

I think he says the same thing, just better than you do! 

In your head, maybe. 

[SeekingUnderstanding]

2 minutes ago, CV75 said:

Christ Is Risen; Faith in Him Will Move Mountains

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/general-conference/2021/04/49nelson?lang=eng

Check out the 5th, 11th and 15th paragraphs that show our commonality and possession of a particle of faith. The tone conveys his approval and acceptance of e eryone and anyone possessing this trait, regardless of where we stand in our level of belief in the restored gospel.

I’m literally laughing out loud that you think this is praise for former members. Literally. Thanks 👍

[CV75]

Just now, SeekingUnderstanding said:

Please quote exactly where he commends former members. 

He includes us all together. And his invitation to come back on the path commends the exercise of agency of those who used it differently than he, for he trusts our ability to use it. You might resist this understanding (as evidenced in your last few posts), and I cannot come up with a talk that is ALL about you, but you are included in every reference made about the commendable, divine potential of every person. If you are to apply the OP generally, it seems consistent to accept, and include yourself and those with whom you identify with, the general explanations of your fellow posters.

[Nofear]

15 minutes ago, CV75 said:

I think he says the same thing, just better than you do! 

Agreed. While he certainly adamantly disagrees with those who disparage the Gospel or the Church, he is still able to see and does recognize the worth, value, and importance of others -- and his talk was almost entirely about seeing that in others even when we disagree. If one can't believe another sees value in them despite disagreement... well, that's a progress hampering character flaw. Still, we can love them regardless.

[CV75]

7 minutes ago, SeekingUnderstanding said:

I’m literally laughing out loud that you think this is praise for former members. Literally. Thanks 👍

If you have a particle of faith, it doesn't matter if you are a former member or not, you are included and you are commended for it. Now, if you ere to tell me you have zero faith in anything, I wouldn't beleive you, but I would commend you anyway for continuing to struggle with the obvious conflict. And so would President Nelson, according to these and other talks.

[SeekingUnderstanding]

51 minutes ago, CV75 said:

If you have a particle of faith, it doesn't matter if you are a former member or not, you are included and you are commended for it. Now, if you ere to tell me you have zero faith in anything, I wouldn't beleive you, but I would commend you anyway for continuing to struggle with the obvious conflict. And so would President Nelson, according to these and other talks.

I’ll take a serious tone for a moment. Let me reflect back Nelson’s words at you:

“Through exercising critical thinking, you will have the ability to move the mountains in your life,⁹even though your personal challenges may loom as large as Mount Everest.

Your mountains may be MLM scams, faith in a high demand obviously fake religion, or other personal problems. Your mountains will vary, and yet the answer to each of your challenges is to increase your critical thinking. That takes work. Lazy learners and lax disciples will always struggle to muster even a particle of critical thinking.”

 

Now even if you are a member of the church, I am commending you even if you have a particle of critical thinking. Now even if you told me you had zero critical thinking I wouldn’t believe you, but I’d commend you anyway for continuing your obvious struggle. Hope you feel commended!

Edited November 14 by SeekingUnderstanding

[CV75]

52 minutes ago, SeekingUnderstanding said:

I’ll take a serious tone for a moment. Let me reflect back Nelson’s words at you:

“Through exercising critical thinking, you will have the ability to move the mountains in your life,⁹even though your personal challenges may loom as large as Mount Everest.

Your mountains may be MLM scams, faith in a high demand obviously fake religion, or other personal problems. Your mountains will vary, and yet the answer to each of your challenges is to increase your critical thinking. That takes work. Lazy learners and lax disciples will always struggle to muster even a particle of critical thinking.”

 

Now even if you are a member of the church, I am commending you even if you have a particle of critical thinking. Now even if you told me you had zero critical thinking I wouldn’t believe you, but I’d commend you anyway for continuing your obvious struggle. Hope you feel commended!

That would be both universally applicable and of a serious tone if it weren't for that last sentence.

This is one of those things for which I have a commendation-neutral reaction.

[carbon dioxide]

Of course he is back to work.  He has full prospective.  He is very close to the end of his life and as he continues to fulfill his calling he will have secured his place in exaltation.  There are two main classes of people in the eternities.  The exalted and everyone else who reside below them and are servants to those who are exalted.   His critics will have their short time to complain about stuff but in the end they all lose.   The best anyone can do is join Pres Nelson in the eternities.  None of his critics will surpass him yet if they continue all of them will be servants to him and the rest of the exalted for all the eternities.  Time without end.   In the end, the good boys do win.

Edited November 14 by carbon dioxide

[MiserereNobis]

6 hours ago, carbon dioxide said:

There are two main classes of people in the eternities.  The exalted and everyone else who reside below them and are servants to those who are exalted.

What if we don't want to be servants? Will we be forced to?

And how will we serve? (are the exalted going to want tea? are we going to do their laundry? walk their dogs?)

Why will the exalted want/need servants?

Edited November 15 by MiserereNobis

[Tacenda]

40 minutes ago, MiserereNobis said:

What if we don't want to be servants? Will we be forced to?

And how will we serve? (are the exalted going to want tea? are we going to do their laundry? walk their dogs?)

Why will the exalted want/need servants?

I don't believe in this.

[Calm]

1 hour ago, MiserereNobis said:

Why will the exalted want/need servants?

Bingo….

Everyone exalted are servants of the Most High, so in that sense we will all be servants of God.  And how we serve is most likely in serving our fellowmen in charity, just as we are commanded to do here and hopefully end up doing it because we want to, we want to help other.

Edited November 15 by Calm

[InCognitus]

2 hours ago, MiserereNobis said:

What if we don't want to be servants? Will we be forced to?

And how will we serve? (are the exalted going to want tea? are we going to do their laundry? walk their dogs?)

Why will the exalted want/need servants?

Referring to the angels in Hebrews 1:14 (NASB20):   "Are they not all ministering spirits, sent out to provide service for the sake of those who will inherit salvation?"

I think all about ministering unto others and perpetuating the Kingdom of God, not for fulfilling someone's selfish desires.

[Nofear]

11 hours ago, MiserereNobis said:

What if we don't want to be servants? Will we be forced to?

Heaven is not an idle place but there continues to be work and purposes (things largely hidden from our mortal eyes). With eyes open, these labors will be one I think all of us will want to participate in. It is my presumption that those who proved more faithful/reliable/capable will be in positions of greater responsibility directing the labors of others who are still growing. "Servant" could be a way to describe some in that hierarchy but I strongly suspect it won't be anything at all like what you posted.

[MiserereNobis]

3 hours ago, Nofear said:

Heaven is not an idle place but there continues to be work and purposes (things largely hidden from our mortal eyes). With eyes open, these labors will be one I think all of us will want to participate in. It is my presumption that those who proved more faithful/reliable/capable will be in positions of greater responsibility directing the labors of others who are still growing. "Servant" could be a way to describe some in that hierarchy but I strongly suspect it won't be anything at all like what you posted.

I'd rather just rest in perfect communion with God's Being (the Beatific Vision). Eternal work, labor, and responsibility doesn't sound all that appealing to me  

[SeekingUnderstanding]

21 hours ago, carbon dioxide said:

Of course he is back to work.  He has full prospective.  He is very close to the end of his life and as he continues to fulfill his calling he will have secured his place in exaltation.  There are two main classes of people in the eternities.  The exalted and everyone else who reside below them and are servants to those who are exalted.   His critics will have their short time to complain about stuff but in the end they all lose.   The best anyone can do is join Pres Nelson in the eternities.  None of his critics will surpass him yet if they continue all of them will be servants to him and the rest of the exalted for all the eternities.  Time without end.   In the end, the good boys do win.

Your description of heaven is disgusting. 

[Nofear]

1 hour ago, MiserereNobis said:

I'd rather just rest in perfect communion with God's Being (the Beatific Vision). Eternal work, labor, and responsibility doesn't sound all that appealing to me  

The Beatific Vision is indeed the more common conceptualization of heaven. I tend to think of it in a more crass way. With my physical body, the right chemical compounds can supposedly put me in a state of euphoria and bliss (supposedly, as I've never tried it). Well, why not make heaven just like an uber state of being euphorically stoned (but without all the bad drug aspects)?

While there is certainly room for rest and peace and aspects of what would be the analog of the Beatific Vision. In the LDS conception, exaltation is to become a full participant in the creative labors of God, The Creator. Participation can start now and in the eternities will continue, only coupled with a much greater glory.
 

 

Edited November 15 by Nofear