On Representation of the 3 Witnesses in the Media

[Navidad]

2 hours ago, Truth Teller said:

To any catholics or Christians reading this, this is what Mormons truly think about you. This is what I grew up believing and this is what the members of this board grew up believing.

 

1857 is the best you got? I would hate for you to judge Southern Baptists by what they said in 1857! In the same series of messages, Kimball predicted Brigham Young would be president of the United States, and that he had enough wives to whip the US army because they would whip themselves! I love reading the sermons from the LDS reformation period. They are power-packed with gusto!

[Navidad]

2 hours ago, MiserereNobis said:

Hey, look at us not fighting over the claims of exclusivity!  

I am happy any day to join with you to combat mindlessness . . . unless of course it happens to be my own! Ha! 🙃

[Hamilton Porter]

You guys fot heckuvalotta endurance with a troll.

[Navidad]

2 hours ago, InCognitus said:

It was the occupation of Jesus Christ and his Apostles to propagate the Gospel of salvation and the principles of eternal life to the world, and it is our duty and calling, as ministers of the same salvation and Gospel, to gather every item of truth and reject every error.  Whether a truth be found with professed infidels, or with the Universalists, or the Church of Rome, or the Methodists, the Church of England, the Presbyterians, the Baptists, the Quakers, the Shakers, or any other of the various and numerous different sects and parties, all of whom have more or less truth, it is the business of the Elders of this Church (Jesus, their elder brother, being at their head,) to gather up all the truths in the world pertaining to life and salvation, to the Gospel we preach, to mechanism of every kind, to the sciences, and to philosophy, wherever it may be found in every nation, kindred, tongue, and people, and bring it to Zion.

I hope everyone notices that he didn't mention the Mennonites! I think he knew that we already had THEE TRUTH back in those days!

Or, on second thought maybe he didn't think we had any truth! Nuts, I hadn't thought about that! Ha! 😄

[Navidad]

2 hours ago, Truth Teller said:

What's wrong ,nehor! The truth of what the prophets said hurt your feelings? Hard to pull the wool over the non Mormons eyes when someone actually brings the facts!

I am a non-Mormon and I am allergic to wool.

[Navidad]

1 hour ago, MiserereNobis said:

The Catholic Church also teaches that she alone has full priesthood authority (the exception is those pesky Orthodox schismatics, ha). Do you have an issue with that, too? Are you going to pull out some quotes from 17th century popes about non-Catholics and tell everyone that is what I think of them?

OK.....Now your are pushing our new found kinship! Ha! Methinks only Christ has "full priesthood authority!" He gave authority to his disciples, but I doubt that He gave them His

"full priesthood authority" as in His "ultimate sacrifice as High Priest" authority in Hebrews 5. Methinks He still has that and we don't!

Sorry, don't want to interrupt your fun time! Go back to grading your papers and I will go back to my dissertation! I hope we are still comrades in arms against mindlessness!

[bluebell]

1 hour ago, Truth Teller said:

You broke up families because you grew up in a church that taught you you had to go on a mission,  you didn't have a choice. A mormon mission is one of the most selfish and narcissistic endeavors one can go on. You'll never understand while being a true blue mormon. And I u believe all the people u converted are happy and their family is happy then you're cookoo for coco puffs my friend!

I have two sons who are missionary age.  One is currently serving and the other has no plans to.  Both are considered active and have temple recommends.  The church teaches that all young men should serve, but they do not teach that they have to serve.  Every member has a choice.

[bluebell]

1 hour ago, InCognitus said:

I went on a mission, yes.  And we (my companion and I) baptized families (they are happy families), and a few individuals.  When pulling individuals away from families by them accepting the gospel, it sometimes causes division, but it's a division that Jesus said would come (as you should know if you read the New Testament - see Luke 12:40-53 from this week's Come Follow Me Lesson  ).

Edit:  I feel I should quote the verse completely, given some of your latest comments:

 49 ¶ I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled?
50 But I have a baptism to be baptized with; and how am I straitened till it be accomplished!
 51 Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division:
 52 For from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three.
53 The father shall be divided against the son, and the son against the father; the mother against the daughter, and the daughter against the mother; the mother in law against her daughter in law, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
(Luke 12:49–53)

I'm still in touch with the missionary that brought my family into activity.  I'm so thankful that he served!

[PoG]

11 minutes ago, bluebell said:

I have two sons who are missionary age.  One is currently serving and the other has no plans to.  Both are considered active and have temple recommends.  The church teaches that all young men should serve, but they do not teach that they have to serve.  Every member has a choice.

My husband and I thought they same thing as you until we watched this video.  I would love to hear your thoughts. Is a mission really a choice, apparently not for young men according to this Stake president.

 

 

 

 

[InCognitus]

4 hours ago, Navidad said:

I hope everyone notices that he didn't mention the Mennonites! I think he knew that we already had THEE TRUTH back in those days!

Or, on second thought maybe he didn't think we had any truth! Nuts, I hadn't thought about that! Ha! 😄

Yeah, those Mennonites, they just don't have ANY truth  

I don't think the Mennonites had a high enough profile in the interactions with the restored church of the 1800's for any mention of them to have come up (otherwise I'm sure Joseph Smith and Brigham Young would be saying that "we can go to the Mennonites to find all the rest of the truth" ).  I think I remember reading that Sidney Rigdon's break off church at one time took on the name "Mennonite", but I don't know his reasons for doing so.

Edited May 6, 2023 by InCognitus
Fixed spelling of Sidney Rigdon's name

[Hamilton Porter]

5 minutes ago, PoG said:

My husband and I thought they same thing as you until we watched this video.  I would love to hear your thoughts. Is a mission really a choice, apparently not for young men according to this Stake president.

 

 

 

 

You might not want to link a sexual predator.

[bluebell]

5 minutes ago, PoG said:

My husband and I thought they same thing as you until we watched this video.  I would love to hear your thoughts. Is a mission really a choice, apparently not for young men according to this Stake president.

 

 

 

 

I've already watched it.  We discussed it on here a few weeks ago.  I think a good question to ask yourself is, if it's really not a choice then how do so many young men end up choosing not to go?

If it's not a choice then it shouldn't be possible to choose not to go, right?  Yet it is possible, because it is a choice.

(The Stake president is speaking about what a young man must choose if he is trying to follow Christ's commandments and is otherwise worthy and able to serve.  And in that sense I agree with him.  Some things that we can choose to do or not, are not choices that one can make and still be obedient to God's commandments.  I do wish he had worded it differently but I word stuff poorly all the time and I'm not going to hold him to a higher standard than I hold myself so it's not that big of a deal to me).

 

[Tacenda]

2 hours ago, bluebell said:

Probably for the same reason that no reasonable person goes up to a couple about to get married and tries to have a discussion with them about how marriage tears families apart and causes pain and hurt, even though some marriages do turn out that way.

It's not marriage that is causes the pain, but imperfect (and sometimes evil) people that cause it.  

 

I just had an experience that makes me sad. We went to my husband's nephew's wedding reception and just came back. And sat with my husband's two brothers and one with their wife, the other is single (divorced). We talked about the one brother's retirement coming up in three months. And I asked what were their plans once that happens. He mentioned a mission, and then his wife asked if we'd gone to the fireside about missions. I said I heard about it and that the leader was asking seniors to go on two missions and I said that I didn't think that was good for him to ask senior couples to go on two missions, without knowing it was one service and one regular mission. In my head I was thinking that would be a burden on the seniors cost wise and IMO a burden being away from family for so long. But lo and behold, I got in trouble for even saying it, I felt daggers from my sister-in-law. Now I feel bad for saying what I did. I'm sick about it. They don't know the extent of my belief, I just try to get a long. Now I feel like I don't belong in my super stalwart in-laws lives, like what am I doing in this family, I'm too far gone. But I don't have issues with two missions, being one service stay at home and one regular. But immediately messed up by saying what I did, and I could have just shut my mouth. This is maybe how the church can divide families. There is truth to that from Mike. 

Edited May 6, 2023 by Tacenda

[InCognitus]

13 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

This is maybe how the church can divide families. There is truth to that from Mike. 

That actually came from Jesus, originally (Luke 12:49-53).  This is not so much for the context of your situation, but to explain where the idea that the gospel can divide families came from. 

Edited May 6, 2023 by InCognitus

[bluebell]

14 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

I just had an experience that makes me sad. We went to my husband's nephew's wedding reception and just came back. And sat with my husband's two brothers and one with their wife, the other is single (divorced). We talked about the one brother's retirement coming up in three months. And I asked what were their plans once that happens. He mentioned a mission, and then his wife asked if we'd gone to the fireside about missions. I said I heard about it and that the leader was asking seniors to go on two missions and I said that I didn't think that was good for him to ask senior couples to go on two missions, without knowing it was one service and one regular mission. In my head I was thinking that would be a burden on the seniors cost wise and IMO a burden being away from family for so long. But lo and behold, I got in trouble for even saying it, I felt daggers from my sister-in-law. Now I feel bad for saying what I did. I'm sick about it. They don't know the extent of my belief, I just try to get a long. Now I feel like I don't belong in my super stalwart in laws lives, like what am I doing in this family, I'm too far gone. But I don't have issues with two missions, being one service and one regular. But immediately messed up by saying what I did, and I could have just shut my mouth. This is maybe how the church can divide families. There is truth to that from Mike. 

Disagreement doesn't automatically divide though. Some people handling being disagreed with better than others though of course.  We can cause division with how we choose to interact with each other, but that does not come from the church.  That comes from our own weaknesses.

My family is very active in the church.  Most of my extended family isn't.  We are super close and do stuff together all the time.  One example is my mother's brother.  My inactive uncle (who vapes, uses chewing tobacco, drinks coffee and is endowed but hasn't been active for decades) lives with my parents (who are in leadership callings in their ward and serve in the temple twice a month) and they are having the time of their lives hanging out together.  He's my dad's best friend.

If the church divides families, why am I not divided from mine?

Edit to add:  I am sorry that the experience made you sad.  I don't think you said anything wrong but perhaps your sister in law thought that you were telling her that she was wrong in her beliefs and that's why she responded defensively?

Edited May 6, 2023 by bluebell

[Tacenda]

10 minutes ago, bluebell said:

Disagreement doesn't automatically divide though. Some people handling being disagreed with better than others though of course.  We can cause division with how we choose to interact with each other, but that does not come from the church.  That comes from our own weaknesses.

My family is very active in the church.  Most of my extended family isn't.  We are super close and do stuff together all the time.  One example is my mother's brother.  My inactive uncle (who vapes, uses chewing tobacco, drinks coffee and is endowed but hasn't been active for decades) lives with my parents (who are in leadership callings in their ward and serve in the temple twice a month) and they are having the time of their lives hanging out together.  He's my dad's best friend.

If the church divides families, why am I not divided from mine?

Edit to add:  I am sorry that the experience made you sad.  I don't think you said anything wrong but perhaps your sister in law thought that you were telling her that she was wrong in her beliefs and that's why she responded defensively?

Thanks for the encouragement, I must be ultra sensitive today.

[Navidad]

2 hours ago, InCognitus said:

I think I remember reading that Sydney Rigdon's break off church at one time took on the name "Mennonite", but I don't know his reasons for doing so.

I never heard that. I will have to look into it. I could see that for the Whitmers. BTW, I hope you know I was simply kidding around in what I said about not including the Mennonites. I was not trying in any way to be serious! Take care!

Edited May 6, 2023 by Navidad

[InCognitus]

8 minutes ago, Navidad said:

I never heard that. I will have to look into it. I could see that for the Whitmers. BTW, I hope you know I was simply kidding around in what I said. I was not trying in any way to be serious! Take care!

I looked it up, it's found here:   BYU Studies, 21:1 (1981), page 60:  Sidney Rigdon:  Post Nauvoo, by Thomas J. Gregory

"Rigdon's second church differed in a number of other ways from the Kirtland church.  First, it was not called the Church of Christ, but the Church of Jesus Christ of the Children of Zion.  Eventually citing a scripture indicating God would give his followers a new name, Sidney instructed his flock to take upon themselves the name 'Mennonite.'"

The footnote cites the Journal of Stephen Post, 19 September 1875, Post Papers as the source.  I have no idea in what way Rigdon thought he was justified in using that name.

Oh, and yes, I knew you were kidding around (I do that too, you know!)

Edited May 6, 2023 by InCognitus

[mfbukowski]

6 hours ago, bluebell said:

You haven't found one member in the age group you keep talking about that knows what you are talking about though.

Yeah, I don't know what he's talking about.  I have been a convert for over 40 years after degrees in philosophy and many spiritual experiences confirming God wants me here, but I guess I'm not a big boy yet. When am I supposed to get this info anyway? 

 

[Vanguard]

Good grief. I almost believe someone is posing as AtlanticMike. I actually enjoyed his posts when he was here some two years ago. Reading these recent posts is quite disheartening. I suspect something has happened since he was first here and probably not anything pleasant. : ( I wish him the best and hope that he can course correct. This kind of aggressive anger would render anyone quite unhappy and alone. : (   

[mfbukowski]

3 hours ago, PoG said:

My husband and I thought they same thing as you until we watched this video.  I would love to hear your thoughts. Is a mission really a choice, apparently not for young men according to this Stake president.

 

 

 

 

Edit: Apologies! I got you confused with our latest troll!

There's a contradiction here, 

The Mormon commentator, John Dehlin even says to run  away from anyone who tells you you don't have a choice. 

So Dehlin say you have a choice, the stake counselor says you don't.  Dehlin supporting the correct LDS position??

Besides this Moroni 10 teaches YOU DO WHAT GOD TELL YOU TO DO, not what others tell you to do.

It's scripture tha you ask God and you FOLLOW WHAT YOUR HEART TELLS YOU.

It's the stake guy who contradicts scripture?  And Pres. NELSON who says to pray about everything and get your answers?

And the quote is from some unknown counselor in some stake in Utah?

Omigosh.

Such leaders are not infallible in our Doctrine, in fact no one is. Not even a stake counselor.

Edited May 7, 2023 by mfbukowski

[Teancum]

On 5/5/2023 at 4:03 PM, smac97 said:

"Jesus resurrected from the dead and ascended into heaven.  That is why his tomb is empty."

"Oh yea you bet.  So convenient. And I have a bridge to sell to you."

Thanks,

-Smac

That to.

[Teancum]

On 5/5/2023 at 4:03 PM, smac97 said:

"Jesus resurrected from the dead and ascended into heaven.  That is why his tomb is empty."

"Oh yea you bet.  So convenient. And I have a bridge to sell to you."

Thanks,

-Smac

Really while I am skeptical that Jesus rose from the dead there really are some major differences.  I am sure you really do understand the differences.  If JS actually had plates of ancient origin exhibiting them to the world could have proven much, if in fact they were authentic.  But no, they were supposedly taken back by the angel Moroni.  So now you just have to take it in faith. IT is a oncentinet way to show that what he claimed to have cannot be examined.  Very convenient.  Why does religion have to rely on faith so much?   Why do we have to take a handful of people's word for it?

[Teancum]

On 5/4/2023 at 10:42 AM, Tacenda said:

There were plates, just don't know if they were real, I wonder if Joseph just needed something to back up what he believed. 

Well there was something but if they were real and ancient why not leave them for evidence. What a find! What a wonderful thing. If they were a fabrication coming up with the yarn that the angel took them back to heaven is convenient.  And it is what one would expect when being conned.  

[Calm]

50 minutes ago, Teancum said:

ut if they were real and ancient why not leave them for evidence. What a find!

Are you assuming he just found them and was not directed by an angel to their location?