The Problem w LDSMen

[MustardSeed]

16 minutes ago, Durangout said:

Would love to have their faces if I had.

She is 25 yrs younger than RMN so probably controls the marriage.  That is not necessarily a bad thing BUT An unordained / set apart lay member with no authority / training making policy for The Church.  Yeah, I kinda think that’s a problem.

As if the prophet is a puppet with no access to God to make the final call. I agree with you-  i do think Wendy has influence. She’s a a force to be reckoned with. I know her personally. But I do not think that Russell Nelson is weak. And I do not think that she makes him weak. I think together they make an incredible team .

Edited March 23, 2023 by MustardSeed

[Durangout]

1 hour ago, bluebell said:

It seems like some of your concern is because you don’t think the pendulum needed to swing at all and you were happier when women were subservient to men?

I don’t presume to speak for GTN but I do completely agree w his statement above…For me, the answer to your question is a No.  

Because of the feminism that has infiltrated every level of the church, men are subservient to women.  Go read the prophecies of Isaiah where in the last days he says “women shall rule over them”.  I expect there to be equality.  Ward Council is  mostly just men bending over backwards to try and placate the RS / YW / Primary presidents from complaining about something.  I once was waiting for some YM to show at the stake Ctr for an activity.  A lady came up to me and started telling me what to do to set up her activity.  When I told here “I have no idea what you are talking about”, and she noticed the annoyed look on my face she walked away mumbling something to herself.  Truth is, if she had asked politely I would have done her dirty work for her.

[bluebell]

16 minutes ago, Durangout said:

I don’t presume to speak for GTN but I do completely agree w his statement above…For me, the answer to your question is a No.  

Because of the feminism that has infiltrated every level of the church, men are subservient to women.  Go read the prophecies of Isaiah where in the last days he says “women shall rule over them”.  I expect there to be equality.  Ward Council is  mostly just men bending over backwards to try and placate the RS / YW / Primary presidents from complaining about something.  I once was waiting for some YM to show at the stake Ctr for an activity.  A lady came up to me and started telling me what to do to set up her activity.  When I told here “I have no idea what you are talking about”, and she noticed the annoyed look on my face she walked away mumbling something to herself.  Truth is, if she had asked politely I would have done her dirty work for her.

That’s such a low opinion of the women in your ward.  And the men too I suppose. 

[bluebell]

28 minutes ago, MustardSeed said:

As if the prophet is a puppet with no access to God to make the final call. I agree with you-  i do think Wendy has influence. She’s a a force to be reckoned with. I know her personally. But I do not think that Russell Nelson is weak. And I do not think that she makes him weak. I think together they make an incredible team .

It’s also frustrating to hear how quickly some men blame women for things they don’t like, even for things completely controlled by men.

[YJacket]

4 hours ago, pogi said:

I think most women in the church view it as a palliative attempt to assuage the concerns of genuine inequity between the sexes in the church, and it rings incredibly hollow.  "You may not be able to hold leadership rolls, bless your own children, pass the sacrament, and everything you do is under the authority of men - but you are way more spiritual then us."  You only hear men say that...why is that?  The church both pedestalizes women and pushes them to the side at the same time, while the men go to work running the church. 

While it is a step up from the portrayal of women in the Bible and other Christian churches as the lower, more seductive and sinful sex responsible for our fallen state, and therefore must be under the authority and control of men as a consequence, and must remain silent at church.  And if they are to learn anything spiritual, "ask your husbands".   While it is a step up from that, it is damaging for women (and some men apparently) in other ways.

What I have learned in the Church is the utter confusion of spirituality with emotion.

When individuals in the Church say women are more spiritual what they are really saying is women are more outwardly emotional and that outwardly emotional is the spirit. 

[MustardSeed]

36 minutes ago, bluebell said:

It’s also frustrating to hear how quickly some men blame women for things they don’t like, even for things completely controlled by men.

It’s too bad.  There are remarkable men and women out there in the world, and when we work together we can move mountains.  I love the partnership of President and Wendy.  I love the partnership I have with my husband and work associates.  And I enjoy learning and sharing with many men here, and sharp women.  ❤️

[MustardSeed]

17 minutes ago, YJacket said:

What I have learned in the Church is the utter confusion of spirituality with emotion.

When individuals in the Church say women are more spiritual what they are really saying is women are more outwardly emotional and that outwardly emotional is the spirit. 

Sometimes yes.  Sometimes it’s just says to placate. 

[Durangout]

On 3/21/2023 at 9:54 PM, The Nehor said:

“Real men” is basically a measuring stick to hurt those who cannot or will not measure up to the standard. There is a reason this kind of masculinity is described as “toxic” and “fragile”

Fail.

The guy two doors down from me is young , healthy, capable and has two teenage  boys.  He doesn’t do any yard work, rake leaves in the Fall, etc but hires it out.  Neither does he require his sons to do any work around the house.  He doesn’t teach them discipline.  I won’t go on… I would submit that he is not a “real man” and teaches his boys to be the same.  They will crumble when there is real adversity.

[bluebell]

15 minutes ago, YJacket said:

What I have learned in the Church is the utter confusion of spirituality with emotion.

When individuals in the Church say women are more spiritual what they are really saying is women are more outwardly emotional and that outwardly emotional is the spirit. 

You are probably right for some but I don’t think such a blanket statement works for all.

I don’t equate emotional with the spirit, and the quickest way for me to doubt an experience is from the spirit is for me to feel overly emotional. I don’t think I’m unique with that.

In my experience (and it’s completely anecdotal) people say/would say that women are more spiritual because the RS (again, speaking only from my experience) had higher attendance, higher visiting teaching numbers, had more prepared RS teachers than EQ, and higher temple attendance numbers.

I’m sure that in other regions of the world it was quite different. 

[bluebell]

1 minute ago, Durangout said:

Fail.

The guy two doors down from me is young , healthy, capable and has two teenage  boys.  He doesn’t do any yard work, rake leaves in the Fall, etc but hires it out.  Neither does he require his sons to do any work around the house.  He doesn’t teach them discipline.  I won’t go on… I would submit that he is not a “real man” and teaches his boys to be the same.  They will crumble when there is real adversity.

Hopefully he is teaching them emotional and mental resiliency and many other skills you can’t observe out a window.

Lots of “real” men out there who are real wrecks.

[Hamilton Porter]

1 hour ago, Durangout said:

Because of the feminism that has infiltrated every level of the church, men are subservient to women.  Go read the prophecies of Isaiah where in the last days he says “women shall rule over them”.  I expect there to be equality.  Ward Council is  mostly just men bending over backwards to try and placate the RS / YW / Primary presidents from complaining about something.  I once was waiting for some YM to show at the stake Ctr for an activity.  A lady came up to me and started telling me what to do to set up her activity.  When I told here “I have no idea what you are talking about”, and she noticed the annoyed look on my face she walked away mumbling something to herself.  Truth is, if she had asked politely I would have done her dirty work for her.

🤣🤣🤣

I'm posting this on my Facebook.

Edited March 23, 2023 by Hamilton Porter

[The Nehor]

43 minutes ago, Durangout said:

Fail.

The guy two doors down from me is young , healthy, capable and has two teenage  boys.  He doesn’t do any yard work, rake leaves in the Fall, etc but hires it out.  Neither does he require his sons to do any work around the house.  He doesn’t teach them discipline.  I won’t go on… I would submit that he is not a “real man” and teaches his boys to be the same.

Assuming your insight into this guy’s life is correct is this really a masculinity problem? Or is it a general human problem? Is it that he and his sons are effeminate?

48 minutes ago, Durangout said:

They will crumble when there is real adversity.

Sounds like fragile masculinity to me. It manifests in many forms. The one you describe is one of the worst.

That you imagine I am defending this conception suggests you haven’t the slightest idea what I am talking about.

[Durangout]

42 minutes ago, bluebell said:

Hopefully he is teaching them emotional and mental resiliency and many other skills you can’t observe out a window.

Lots of “real” men out there who are real wrecks.

When there is a youth activity and it is time to clean up, his kids literally run and hide so they don’t have to do work.  One time I was showing one of them a super cool backpacking stove that I make from soda cans.  The one kid’s response was “ will u sell me one?”  Wow.   I said “I’ll show you how to make one”. He was no longer interested.  
 

So no, he is not teaching his kids emotional / mental resiliency.  It takes a real man / woman to teach that to their kids.

[The Nehor]

1 hour ago, Durangout said:

Because of the feminism that has infiltrated every level of the church, men are subservient to women.  Go read the prophecies of Isaiah where in the last days he says “women shall rule over them”.  I expect there to be equality.  Ward Council is mostly just men bending over backwards to try and placate the RS / YW / Primary presidents from complaining about something.

Fragile masculinity.

[The Nehor]

3 minutes ago, Durangout said:

When there is a youth activity and it is time to clean up, his kids literally run and hide so they don’t have to do work.  One time I was showing one of them a super cool backpacking stove that I make from soda cans.  The one kid’s response was “ will u sell me one?”  Wow.   I said “I’ll show you how to make one”. He was no longer interested.  
 

So no, he is not teaching his kids emotional / mental resiliency.  It takes a real man / woman to teach that to their kids.

So he is an unreal man? Not really a man? But not a woman either?

Wait, are you accepting that other genders exist?

DIE HERETIC!!!!

[MustardSeed]

4 minutes ago, Durangout said:

When there is a youth activity and it is time to clean up, his kids literally run and hide so they don’t have to do work.  One time I was showing one of them a super cool backpacking stove that I make from soda cans.  The one kid’s response was “ will u sell me one?”  Wow.   I said “I’ll show you how to make one”. He was no longer interested.  
 

So no, he is not teaching his kids emotional / mental resiliency.  It takes a real man / woman to teach that to their kids.

Kids who refuse work drive me nuts.  
Id say yard work is hardly the measure of a man to me but good parents certainly teach children the value of being a contributor. IMO. 

[bluebell]

4 minutes ago, Durangout said:

When there is a youth activity and it is time to clean up, his kids literally run and hide so they don’t have to do work.  One time I was showing one of them a super cool backpacking stove that I make from soda cans.  The one kid’s response was “ will u sell me one?”  Wow.   I said “I’ll show you how to make one”. He was no longer interested.  
 

So no, he is not teaching his kids emotional / mental resiliency.  It takes a real man / woman to teach that to their kids.

I believe a willingness to work, and understanding the importance of work, is very important for both men and women. I do think we struggle as a society with too many people who believe that opposition is counter to a happy and fulfilling life. And work is just a form of opposition. But, I’ve never really seen a willingness to cut your own grass or rake your own leaves to be indicative—in and of itself—of who has a good work ethic and who doesn’t.

i’ve certainly never considered a good work ethic to be a masculine trait.  

[Calm]

1 hour ago, Durangout said:

The guy two doors down from me is young , healthy, capable and has two teenage  boys.  He doesn’t do any yard work, rake leaves in the Fall, etc but hires it out.  Neither does he require his sons to do any work around the house.  He doesn’t teach them discipline.

I am assuming the wife isn’t requiring the sons to do anything around the house either, so it seems (if accurate) more a parental issue that a masculine issue…unless you think young men can only get told what to do by their dads?

[The Nehor]

3 hours ago, Durangout said:

Would love to have their faces if I had.

She is 25 yrs younger than RMN so probably controls the marriage.  That is not necessarily a bad thing BUT An unordained / set apart lay member with no authority / training making policy for The Church.  Yeah, I kinda think that’s a problem.

This conspiracy goes ALL THE WAY TO THE TOP!!!!!

[The Nehor]

17 minutes ago, Calm said:

I am assuming the wife isn’t requiring the sons to do anything around the house either, so it seems (if accurate) more a parental issue that a masculine issue…unless you think young men can only get told what to do by their dads?

A mother bossing around her sons? That is how feminism GETS YOU!

[Smiley McGee]

On 3/21/2023 at 11:53 AM, Durangout said:

This was an excellent and important discussion.  It addresses so many issues that I see within our unique society.

 

I’d put money on the interviewee having a Grindr account. 

Edited March 24, 2023 by Smiley McGee

[Grug the Neanderthal]

6 hours ago, bluebell said:

It seems like some of your concern is because you don’t think the pendulum needed to swing at all and you were happier when women were subservient to men?

No, this isn’t correct. I believe that men and women should be equal and always have been equal in the eyes of God. But I also believe that the covenant relationship between husband and wife and the patriarchal order established by God, as contained in the scriptures, does not make women unequal with men. I believe that it’s just a matter of different rolls. 

I also have no problem with the expansion of women’s rights and opportunities in education, employment, voting, owning land, etc. But I do have a problem with society (and now the church) dismantling the patriarchal order established by God. 

And as I said, I see zero evidence that the pendulum is swing back towards the middle. It’s still swinging full speed toward women ruling over men and usurping their God given authority. In fact the pendulum is swinging faster in this direction than ever since President Nelson has taken over. 

[Hamilton Porter]

Feminism has made women easier to sleep with. That seems to be the consensus.

Jordan Peterson said that it only benefits the top five percentage of men, because 95% of women sleep with those 5%. I seriously doubt that. There are a lot of loosy-goosy women who enjoy sleeping with a wide range of men, and the sexual revolution removed the slut label for doing so, making intimacy (in all its levels) easier to access for men.

[Smiley McGee]

4 hours ago, Durangout said:

I don’t presume to speak for GTN but I do completely agree w his statement above

Almost sounds like you’re both in the same latter-day incel Facebook group…

[Tacenda]

Listening to the podcast, they're talking about how men don't connect doing things, the guest said, "Men need men". Funnily, my husband is on a guys golf trip that he goes on every year. You would not believe how they all look forward to this trip. It's my husband, his two friends, my three sons, and two of their friends that all go. And don't ever mention for them to take their wives, that just never goes well. I think it's very important for men to do things together, so I believe what the guy said. I envy how fun they have together. While they are away I do something with the two friend's wives. And it's usually a craft, maybe a movie and dinner. But it's constrained sometimes and I don't have a lot in common but we've done this for years.  

I do agree with the host on this show, that it would be a good idea for the men in the church to be able to hang out doing stuff, they mentioned going shooting. The church really doesn't have something for men like they do for the Relief Society. Except maybe men's basketball. They use to have baseball too, and my husband loved that, a long with basketball. But that's not the same as other activities really. They have fathers/sons camp outs, at least in my old ward they did. And they use to have women's sports too.

In other churches I read their calendars sometimes, and they have groups of men go to breakfast/coffee and also bible studies. I guess that works too. 

I remember when the men had brats (hot dogs) at the outdoor pavilion right before the priesthood session. Don't know if it's still happening in my newer ward. 

Has the church simplified so much now that the joy has been sucked out??

I'm not active right now so maybe it's still there. Joy as in, not everything has to be centered on Christ does it? I wonder if Christ feels like it's overkill as well. 

Anyway, still listening to the podcast, and I do empathize with some things they're saying on how men need things, that currently may not be there.