Tacenda Posted March 14, 2023 Posted March 14, 2023 Grug, here is a quote from this article by Elder McConkie, maybe it's best to put it to bed. https://rationalfaiths.com/the-adam-god-cover-up/ The devil keeps this heresy alive as a means of obtaining converts to cultism. It is contrary to the whole plan of salvation set forth in the scriptures, and anyone who has read the Book of Moses, and anyone who has received the temple endowment, and who yet believes the Adam-God Theory does not deserve to be saved.[ii] Those who are so ensnared reject the living prophet and close their ears to the apostles of their day. “We will follow those who went before,” they say. And having so determined, they soon are ready to enter polygamous relationships that destroy their souls.
Grug the Neanderthal Posted March 14, 2023 Author Posted March 14, 2023 2 hours ago, Tacenda said: Grug, here is a quote from this article by Elder McConkie, maybe it's best to put it to bed. https://rationalfaiths.com/the-adam-god-cover-up/ The devil keeps this heresy alive as a means of obtaining converts to cultism. It is contrary to the whole plan of salvation set forth in the scriptures, and anyone who has read the Book of Moses, and anyone who has received the temple endowment, and who yet believes the Adam-God Theory does not deserve to be saved.[ii] Those who are so ensnared reject the living prophet and close their ears to the apostles of their day. “We will follow those who went before,” they say. And having so determined, they soon are ready to enter polygamous relationships that destroy their souls. McConkie is full of crap on this one. Do Brigham Young and all those who taught and believed Adam-God not deserve to be saved? Ridiculous. The reality is that everyone has misconceptions about the identity and character of God, including Elder McConkie. This is because of the veil and the fact that not everything about the character and nature of God has been revealed. Whether or not our Heavenly Father is Adam has zero bearing on our relationship with him or our access to the atonement of Jesus Christ. McConkie is right that cults do use Adam-God to ensnare and deceive people into joining with them. But that doesn’t mean that Adam-God is false or that anyone who believes it doesn’t deserve to be saved. And how is it contrary to the plan of salvation? It isn’t.
Grug the Neanderthal Posted March 14, 2023 Author Posted March 14, 2023 (edited) 7 hours ago, MustardSeed said: I corrected my post. I think polygamy is abhorrent. I don’t find homosexuality to be abhorrent. @JLHPROFshould go back and dislike to avoid any confusion. On what grounds do claim that polygamy is abhorrent but homosexual relations are not? Righteous men of God in times past were polygamists, like Abraham, Jacob, and David. While God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah by reigning down fire from heaven because of their rampant homosexuality. Edited March 14, 2023 by Grug the Neanderthal -1
Popular Post MustardSeed Posted March 14, 2023 Popular Post Posted March 14, 2023 (edited) 17 minutes ago, Grug the Neanderthal said: On what grounds do claim that polygamy is abhorrent but homosexual relations are not? Righteous men of God in times past were polygamists, like Abraham, Jacob, and David. While God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah by reigning down fire from heaven because of their rampant homosexuality. My opinion is that polygamy is a foul practice that has fingers in sexual abuse and patriarchy that teeters and at times embraces the abuse of power. I’ve never met or been told about a polygamist I liked. I know many many homosexuals that I like and love. What I shared previously and here is my opinion. I have no personal experiences with God that tell me to hate homosexuality nor do I have any with God that tell me to accept polygamy. Obviously I’m aware that ancient prophets practiced polygamy. That means nothing to me. I find it to be a selfish act of ego and forces women into a position of inequity and I’m not down with that. Regarding Sodom, I believe there is more to that story. If it is all about homosexuality then lots of fire would have happened in other situations. A local seminary teacher taught that the Katrina storm was due to all the homosexuals in New Orleans. 🫣that’s ridiculous. So I take bible stories and learn what’s useful to me and leave the rest for everyone else to justify their lives. Edited March 14, 2023 by MustardSeed 5
Grug the Neanderthal Posted March 14, 2023 Author Posted March 14, 2023 12 minutes ago, MustardSeed said: My opinion is that polygamy is a foul practice that has fingers in sexual abuse and patriarchy that teeters and at times embraces the abuse of power. I’ve never met or been told about a polygamist I liked. I know many many homosexuals that I like and love. What I shared previously and here is my opinion. I have no personal experiences with God that tell me to hate homosexuality nor do I have any with God that tell me to accept polygamy. Obviously I’m aware that ancient prophets practiced polygamy. That means nothing to me. I find it to be a selfish act of ego and forces women into a position of inequity and I’m not down with that. Regarding Sodom, I believe there is more to that story. If it is all about homosexuality then lots of fire would have happened in other situations. A local seminary teacher taught that the Katrina storm was due to all the homosexuals in New Orleans. 🫣that’s ridiculous. So I take bible stories and learn what’s useful to me and leave the rest for everyone else to justify their lives. So basically on this issue you throwout what the scriptures say and instead go with your own ideas which contradict the scriptures? -1
MustardSeed Posted March 14, 2023 Posted March 14, 2023 13 minutes ago, Grug the Neanderthal said: So basically on this issue you throwout what the scriptures say and instead go with your own ideas which contradict the scriptures? Yes.
Grug the Neanderthal Posted March 14, 2023 Author Posted March 14, 2023 6 minutes ago, MustardSeed said: Yes. I think that’s a recipe for disaster, but I appreciate your honesty.
MustardSeed Posted March 14, 2023 Posted March 14, 2023 13 minutes ago, Grug the Neanderthal said: I think that’s a recipe for disaster, but I appreciate your honesty. Ok.
Dario_M Posted March 14, 2023 Posted March 14, 2023 (edited) 4 hours ago, Grug the Neanderthal said: On what grounds do claim that polygamy is abhorrent but homosexual relations are not? Righteous men of God in times past were polygamists, like Abraham, Jacob, and David. While God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah by reigning down fire from heaven because of their rampant homosexuality. So i need to be destroyed only because i'm gay, like Sodom and Gomorrah? May i ask.....Are you fully right in the head if i may be so free to ask??🎭🎭 O wait..you gonna ignore offcourse. Edited March 14, 2023 by Dario_M
Rain Posted March 14, 2023 Posted March 14, 2023 18 hours ago, Dario_M said: Okay then. I am not agree with you. You don't know what God's plan exactly is. And what that plane includes. If i would marry a man in the temple it would harm nobody. The only thing that would happen is that it would make ME happy. I can follow the law of chastity again. Me and my partner are doing what god want us to do. And i would be sealed with my husband....forEVER. Unfortunatly right now the church is excluding my group of people. Something you may need to know - even IF homosexual sealings were ever allowed in the church you would need to hold the priesthood and receive your endowment before being sealed. Not telling you to push you into those things, just letting you know sealings come after them. 1
Grug the Neanderthal Posted March 14, 2023 Author Posted March 14, 2023 3 hours ago, Dario_M said: So i need to be destroyed only because i'm gay, like Sodom and Gomorrah? That’s not what I said. In the eyes of God homosexual sex is a very serious sin. Those who commit this sin, along with those who are guilty of many other sins, are worthy of death. (Please see Romans chapter 1.) But rather than destroy the sinner, God sent his son to die for us and calls on us to have faith in Christ, repent, and keep his commandments so we can be saved instead of being destroyed. God calls on you Dario to fully forsake your former sins, come unto Christ, and have a new life. 4 hours ago, Dario_M said: May i ask.....Are you fully right in the head if i may be so free to ask??🎭🎭 O wait..you gonna ignore offcourse. Since I know that this is a delicate subject for you, I decided to respond. But I’ll ask you yet again to please refrain from the downvotes and other antics.
Tacenda Posted March 14, 2023 Posted March 14, 2023 8 hours ago, Grug the Neanderthal said: On what grounds do claim that polygamy is abhorrent but homosexual relations are not? Righteous men of God in times past were polygamists, like Abraham, Jacob, and David. While God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah by reigning down fire from heaven because of their rampant homosexuality. You need to research that in the Bible using other means. "Homosexuality" wasn't even in the Bible until 1946. And it was men abusing boys that it's talking about. Quote from this article: https://baptistnews.com/article/my-quest-to-find-the-word-homosexual-in-the-bible/ The RSV committee decided the word “homosexual” was an inaccurate translation of malakoi and arsenokoitai in 1 Corinthians 6:9 and replaced it with “sexual perverts.” An example of “sexual perverts” would be a dirty old man exposing himself to children on a playground. The RSV team admitted that the Greek word arsenokoitai was not condemning homosexuals, but instead those who were abusive in their pursuit of sexual encounters.
Tacenda Posted March 14, 2023 Posted March 14, 2023 9 hours ago, MustardSeed said: My opinion is that polygamy is a foul practice that has fingers in sexual abuse and patriarchy that teeters and at times embraces the abuse of power. I’ve never met or been told about a polygamist I liked. I know many many homosexuals that I like and love. What I shared previously and here is my opinion. I have no personal experiences with God that tell me to hate homosexuality nor do I have any with God that tell me to accept polygamy. Obviously I’m aware that ancient prophets practiced polygamy. That means nothing to me. I find it to be a selfish act of ego and forces women into a position of inequity and I’m not down with that. Regarding Sodom, I believe there is more to that story. If it is all about homosexuality then lots of fire would have happened in other situations. A local seminary teacher taught that the Katrina storm was due to all the homosexuals in New Orleans. 🫣that’s ridiculous. So I take bible stories and learn what’s useful to me and leave the rest for everyone else to justify their lives. I feel like in the LDS church there are many members like you and it's one of the many things I love about the church. In some faiths, there is no room for their members to disagree with what's put forth. Yes the church doesn't allow homosexuals to be sealed in the temple. But it's sure changed considerably on what was once said about them, thank goodness. The church is more fluid than some faiths that won't change with the times.
Calm Posted March 14, 2023 Posted March 14, 2023 (edited) 9 hours ago, Grug the Neanderthal said: While God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah by reigning down fire from heaven because of their rampant homosexuality. Sodom and Gomorrah wasn’t likely about homosexual relationships. Even if you focus solely on the sexual offense, that was limited to gang rape. When Isaiah calls Judah Sodom and Gomorrah, he condemns Judah for idolatry, injustice, mistreatment of the poor, etc….no mention of homosexuality. In other places where the comparison is made the sins are vanity and corruption, “grinding the faces of the poor”… Quote 10 Hear the word of the Lord, you rulers of Sodom; listen to the instruction of our God, you people of Gomorrah! 11 “The multitude of your sacrifices— what are they to me?” says the Lord. “I have more than enough of burnt offerings, of rams and the fat of fattened animals; I have no pleasure in the blood of bulls and lambs and goats. 12 When you come to appear before me, who has asked this of you, this trampling of my courts? 13 Stop bringing meaningless offerings! Your incense is detestable to me. New Moons, Sabbaths and convocations— I cannot bear your worthless assemblies. 14 Your New Moon feasts and your appointed festivals I hate with all my being. They have become a burden to me; I am weary of bearing them. 15 When you spread out your hands in prayer, I hide my eyes from you; even when you offer many prayers, I am not listening. Your hands are full of blood! 16 Wash and make yourselves clean. Take your evil deeds out of my sight; stop doing wrong. 17 Learn to do right; seek justice. Defend the oppressed.[a] Take up the cause of the fatherless; plead the case of the widow. 18 “Come now, let us settle the matter,” says the Lord. “Though your sins are like scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they are red as crimson, they shall be like wool. 19 If you are willing and obedient, you will eat the good things of the land; 20 but if you resist and rebel, you will be devoured by the sword.” For the mouth of the Lord has spoken. 21 See how the faithful city has become a prostitute! She once was full of justice; righteousness used to dwell in her— but now murderers! 22 Your silver has become dross, your choice wine is diluted with water. 23 Your rulers are rebels, partners with thieves; they all love bribes and chase after gifts. They do not defend the cause of the fatherless; the widow’s case does not come before them. https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Isaiah 1&version=NIV I am not claiming the Bible doesn’t condemn homosexual behaviour (at least what was viewed as the dominant/aggressive partner), I am just pointing out latching onto Sodom and Gomorrah to condemn homosexuality while ignoring the described lack of charity/hospitality, treating the outsider as a thing to use and abuse…which was a massive sin in a region which depended on such laws to maintain their communities is missing the point of the scripture, imo. Edited March 14, 2023 by Calm 2
MustardSeed Posted March 14, 2023 Posted March 14, 2023 15 minutes ago, Tacenda said: I feel like in the LDS church there are many members like you and it's one of the many things I love about the church. In some faiths, there is no room for their members to disagree with what's put forth. Yes the church doesn't allow homosexuals to be sealed in the temple. But it's sure changed considerably on what was once said about them, thank goodness. The church is more fluid than some faiths that won't change with the times. To be clear my thoughts do not represent the church at all. I am an outlier. However, I do know that I am not the only one that thinks the way that I think. I do know that our church has some flexibility because it has already made a lot of changes from the beginning. Human churches have laws. Every church on the earth is a human church, and every so often the church looks at the human elements of itself and makes changes. I personally don’t think that the church will ever change his stance on homosexuals being sealed in the temple. My heart hurts for the impact of that reality on specifically one of my family members who is a teenager who is serving a mission and is very faithful and is also never going to be sealed to a woman. At least I hope he’s not. At any rate, I love him with my whole heart. 3
MustardSeed Posted March 14, 2023 Posted March 14, 2023 1 hour ago, Grug the Neanderthal said: In the eyes of God homosexual sex is a very serious sin. Those who commit this sin, along with those who are guilty of many other sins, are worthy of death. (Please see Romans chapter 1.) I promised I would not disagree with you any further, however, I think it is important to identify that everybody who exists is worthy of the “death“ you mentioned here. Anybody who commits any sin, not just the ones that are popular to be condemned by those who sit in judgment, are separated from God. The atonement saves all. 4
Dario_M Posted March 14, 2023 Posted March 14, 2023 (edited) 4 hours ago, Rain said: Something you may need to know - even IF homosexual sealings were ever allowed in the church you would need to hold the priesthood and receive your endowment before being sealed. Not telling you to push you into those things, just letting you know sealings come after them. Thank you i know this and believe me.!! If gay marriages where allowed in the LDS church and temple. 🥳 I would receive the priesterhood this week, then i would do everything the church would ask from me. I would serve everyone the sacrament on sunday and i would go to the temple to baptize people that have past. I would receive the second priesterhood. And after that i would do my persenal best to get to the temple and get worty enough so that i may receive the endowmend. After the endowmend i would wear my garments everyday everynight when it is winter when it is summer. I don't care...i would wear it. And i would finaly follow the law of chastity. And why would i do all of those ordinances??? And be sirri with the law of chastity??? Because i would finaly have HOPE again. I finaly FINALY would have the hope that i will met a nice Mormon man one day. (There are gay man in my ward btw. I know this) And after i have find a nice Mormon man we would marry in the temple exactly how God have wanted it for me.💗 It would be the best day of my life. Me and my husband would be togheter forever. I will finaly be save secure and receive plenty of love from my husband. He would teach me more about the gospel. My husband will take care of me. My life will change. And that's all worth it for me. The endowmend, everything! Because i would finaly have hope again. Hope that my life will change in a positive way. Wearing garments everyday would not be a problem for me anymore at all. But this will never happen. This is just me fantasizing. The church would never allow this kind of thinks. So there is no hope for me that this will became true on day. I don't even wanna hope for that. Because hope is a dangerous thing for me. 😔😞💀 So thank you, but for now i only wanna receive the priesterhood (without any hurry) and for the rest i just wanna do what i want. And absolutely don't wanna follow the law of chastity. For the rest i follow all the other commitments though. And i need to except that...the world is just how it is. Edited March 14, 2023 by Dario_M
Dario_M Posted March 14, 2023 Posted March 14, 2023 3 hours ago, Grug the Neanderthal said: Since I know that this is a delicate subject for you, I decided to respond. But I’ll ask you yet again to please refrain from the downvotes and other antics. And i would do that if you would be less offensive to me.
Grug the Neanderthal Posted March 14, 2023 Author Posted March 14, 2023 4 hours ago, MustardSeed said: The atonement saves all. With the exception of sons of perdition yes. However, Christ’s atonement does NOT save people IN their sins, only FROM their sins on condition of repentance. Those who continue in sin and don’t repent will have to suffer for their sins themselves.
MustardSeed Posted March 14, 2023 Posted March 14, 2023 (edited) 48 minutes ago, Grug the Neanderthal said: With the exception of sons of perdition yes. However, Christ’s atonement does NOT save people IN their sins, only FROM their sins on condition of repentance. Those who continue in sin and don’t repent will have to suffer for their sins themselves. Ok Edited March 14, 2023 by MustardSeed 1
Grug the Neanderthal Posted March 14, 2023 Author Posted March 14, 2023 9 hours ago, Calm said: Sodom and Gomorrah wasn’t likely about homosexual relationships. I strongly disagree. While there were no doubt many other sins being committed in Sodom and Gomorrah, they are most infamous for their rampant homosexual acts. And this was the primary reason why they were destroyed by fire. 7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire. (Jude 1)
pogi Posted March 14, 2023 Posted March 14, 2023 8 hours ago, Dario_M said: Thank you i know this and believe me.!! If gay marriages where allowed in the LDS church and temple. 🥳 I would receive the priesterhood this week, then i would do everything the church would ask from me. I would serve everyone the sacrament on sunday and i would go to the temple to baptize people that have past. I would receive the second priesterhood. And after that i would do my persenal best to get to the temple and get worty enough so that i may receive the endowmend. After the endowmend i would wear my garments everyday everynight when it is winter when it is summer. I don't care...i would wear it. And i would finaly follow the law of chastity. And why would i do all of those ordinances??? And be sirri with the law of chastity??? Because i would finaly have HOPE again. I finaly FINALY would have the hope that i will met a nice Mormon man one day. (There are gay man in my ward btw. I know this) And after i have find a nice Mormon man we would marry in the temple exactly how God have wanted it for me.💗 It would be the best day of my life. Me and my husband would be togheter forever. I will finaly be save secure and receive plenty of love from my husband. He would teach me more about the gospel. My husband will take care of me. My life will change. And that's all worth it for me. The endowmend, everything! Because i would finaly have hope again. Hope that my life will change in a positive way. Wearing garments everyday would not be a problem for me anymore at all. But this will never happen. This is just me fantasizing. The church would never allow this kind of thinks. So there is no hope for me that this will became true on day. I don't even wanna hope for that. Because hope is a dangerous thing for me. 😔😞💀 So thank you, but for now i only wanna receive the priesterhood (without any hurry) and for the rest i just wanna do what i want. And absolutely don't wanna follow the law of chastity. For the rest i follow all the other commitments though. And i need to except that...the world is just how it is. Have you considered civil marriage?
Tacenda Posted March 14, 2023 Posted March 14, 2023 44 minutes ago, Grug the Neanderthal said: I strongly disagree. While there were no doubt many other sins being committed in Sodom and Gomorrah, they are most infamous for their rampant homosexual acts. And this was the primary reason why they were destroyed by fire. 7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire. (Jude 1) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality_in_the_New_Testament The references to homosexuality itself in the New Testament hinge on the interpretation of three specific Koine Greek terms: arsenokoitēs (ἀρσενοκοίτης), malakos (μαλακός), and porneia (πορνεία) along with its cognates.[1][2] While it is not disputed that the three Greek words apply to sexual relations between men (and possibly between women), some academics interpret the relevant passages as a prohibition against pederasty or prostitution rather than homosexuality per se, while some scholars hold the historical position that these passages forbid all same sex sexual acts and relationships.[3][4][5]
Grug the Neanderthal Posted March 14, 2023 Author Posted March 14, 2023 1 minute ago, Tacenda said: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality_in_the_New_Testament The references to homosexuality itself in the New Testament hinge on the interpretation of three specific Koine Greek terms: arsenokoitēs (ἀρσενοκοίτης), malakos (μαλακός), and porneia (πορνεία) along with its cognates.[1][2] While it is not disputed that the three Greek words apply to sexual relations between men (and possibly between women), some academics interpret the relevant passages as a prohibition against pederasty or prostitution rather than homosexuality per se, while some scholars hold the historical position that these passages forbid all same sex sexual acts and relationships.[3][4][5] The footnote in the LDS edition of the KJV references Homosexual Behavior in the Topical Guide where it says "going after strange flesh." Homosexual sexual acts are strictly prohibited by God. Those who commit these acts need to repent and forsake this sin completely.
Grug the Neanderthal Posted March 14, 2023 Author Posted March 14, 2023 8 minutes ago, pogi said: Have you considered civil marriage? That would get him either disfellowshipped or excommunicated from the church.
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