Interesting (lamenated) sign at Church building.

[bsjkki]

16 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

Some of my local leadership are trying to push active shooter training…..again. I am beginning to think they just like giving these trainings. The building is more likely to catch on fire but do we really think telling people to throw hymnbooks at an active shooter is going to save everyone?

Many wards lack an emergency plan at all. I was asked to come up with an emergency plan for primary teachers and included a copy and training in teacher orientations. It included tornadoes, fires, active threats. I had served in Primary for decades and it had never been discussed before. 

[The Nehor]

27 minutes ago, bsjkki said:

Many wards lack an emergency plan at all. I was asked to come up with an emergency plan for primary teachers and included a copy and training in teacher orientations. It included tornadoes, fires, active threats. I had served in Primary for decades and it had never been discussed before. 

My suggestion was a Fifth Sunday covering various emergencies but sounds like the stake just really wants us to talk only about active shooters.

[gav]

5 hours ago, The Nehor said:

 but do we really think telling people to throw hymnbooks at an active shooter is going to save everyone?

That's nuts!!!

[bsjkki]

1 hour ago, gav said:

That's nuts!!!

Not really. It’s part of the Avoid, Defend, Deny training. Updated run, hide, fight. It tries to get people to be active and act. 
 

If you can’t avoid the shooter, can’t deny entry, people are trained to distract, tackle, engage the shooter. Don’t, just sit there..act. 

How many more would have died in Colorado Springs, if the heroes had not acted? 

[The Nehor]

2 hours ago, bsjkki said:

Not really. It’s part of the Avoid, Defend, Deny training. Updated run, hide, fight. It tries to get people to be active and act. 
 

If you can’t avoid the shooter, can’t deny entry, people are trained to distract, tackle, engage the shooter. Don’t, just sit there..act. 

How many more would have died in Colorado Springs, if the heroes had not acted? 

Yeah, but we already had this training. Those who are going to fight already will.

[bsjkki]

15 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

Yeah, but we already had this training. Those who are going to fight already will.

I agree it should be part of a well rounded emergency plan. But, the training encourages a mindset of action for everyone…even if all you can do is throw a hymn book. It’s why they changed ‘hide.’ Way too passive. 
 

I don’t think this training needs to be given too often. Maybe every three years like youth protection. But, leaders when called, should know the emergency plans for their organization. 

[Kenngo1969]

On 11/28/2022 at 8:21 PM, provoman said:

Was told it was done because of a  security concern from another ward. Not sure the concern.

Yes, sincere "Visitors [Are] Welcome," but, at the same time, I don't think one can be too careful these days.  It's part of being "in the world but not of the world" and being "wise as serpents, and harmless as doves" (Matthew 10:16).

[gav]

4 hours ago, bsjkki said:

Not really. It’s part of the Avoid, Defend, Deny training. Updated run, hide, fight. It tries to get people to be active and act. 
 

If you can’t avoid the shooter, can’t deny entry, people are trained to distract, tackle, engage the shooter. Don’t, just sit there..act. 

How many more would have died in Colorado Springs, if the heroes had not acted? 

I guess you deal with a very different kind of shooter in the states than we do in South Africa.

[Kenngo1969]

6 minutes ago, gav said:

I guess you deal with a very different kind of shooter in the states than we do in South Africa.

Would you elaborate, please?  How so?  What exactly do you mean by this?

[gav]

10 hours ago, Kenngo1969 said:

Would you elaborate, please?  How so?  What exactly do you mean by this?

Here shooters are criminals. The will walk-in/invade, shoot the biggest perceived threat to intimidate everybody and then proceed to casually rob everyone of their valuables as long as everyone remains quiet and submissive... the shooting is limited if everybody co-operates.

It seems like in the United States your have a class of shooters that are out to make a name for themselves by racking up as high a body count as possible and submission just adds to the body count.

[bsjkki]

7 hours ago, gav said:

Here shooters are criminals. The will walk-in/invade, shoot the biggest perceived threat to intimidate everybody and then proceed to casually rob everyone of their valuables as long as everyone remains quiet and submissive... the shooting is limited if everybody co-operates.

It seems like in the United States your have a class of shooters that are out to make a name for themselves by racking up as high a body count as possible and submission just adds to the body count.

Yep

[The Nehor]

12 hours ago, gav said:

Here shooters are criminals. The will walk-in/invade, shoot the biggest perceived threat to intimidate everybody and then proceed to casually rob everyone of their valuables as long as everyone remains quiet and submissive... the shooting is limited if everybody co-operates.

It seems like in the United States your have a class of shooters that are out to make a name for themselves by racking up as high a body count as possible and submission just adds to the body count.

It is a shift. The same thing happened with plane hijackings after 9/11. It went from ‘criminal trying to escape’ to ‘potentially just wants to murder everyone’.

[LoudmouthMormon]

On 12/2/2022 at 1:31 AM, bsjkki said:

Many wards lack an emergency plan at all. I was asked to come up with an emergency plan for primary teachers and included a copy and training in teacher orientations. It included tornadoes, fires, active threats. I had served in Primary for decades and it had never been discussed before. 

Heh.  My ward "had" an emergency plan - it's a 100+ page assortment of articles on survival and emergencies.  It got mailed to the bishop five years ago, and promptly forgotten.  Any guesses on how useful it will be if there's an emergency/disaster?

I have buddies who are a retired military brother and a prepper cop brother.  They have preparadness plans, focusing on preparation.  Food/water storage.  Whole family knowing an offsite location to meet up if separated.  Learn basic first aid.  Battery/solar powered radios.   And their emergency plans both follow the same common sense general outline:

- Are you safe?  If not, get safe. 
- Are the people in your immediate vicinity safe?  If not, help them.
- Is your family safe?  If not, can you get to them safely?  If not, that remains your next priority, but while you're working on that:
- Are your ministering families safe?  If not, help them. 
- Report in to your EQP.  Prepare to receive assignments.  If you're the only one there on top of things, prepare to be the leadership your ward needs.

 

[bsjkki]

2 hours ago, LoudmouthMormon said:

Heh.  My ward "had" an emergency plan - it's a 100+ page assortment of articles on survival and emergencies.  It got mailed to the bishop five years ago, and promptly forgotten.  Any guesses on how useful it will be if there's an emergency/disaster?

I have buddies who are a retired military brother and a prepper cop brother.  They have preparadness plans, focusing on preparation.  Food/water storage.  Whole family knowing an offsite location to meet up if separated.  Learn basic first aid.  Battery/solar powered radios.   And their emergency plans both follow the same common sense general outline:

- Are you safe?  If not, get safe. 
- Are the people in your immediate vicinity safe?  If not, help them.
- Is your family safe?  If not, can you get to them safely?  If not, that remains your next priority, but while you're working on that:
- Are your ministering families safe?  If not, help them. 
- Report in to your EQP.  Prepare to receive assignments.  If you're the only one there on top of things, prepare to be the leadership your ward needs.

 

I love this.

[Stargazer]

On 11/30/2022 at 8:36 AM, mfbukowski said:

Everyone just carry a gun.!

Instant relief for "the spookies".

I used to have to close down the building at least once a week and carried a very large....

 

Flashlight 

 

Since I lived a five minute walk from church, I was frequently asked to check the building in the evening to make sure it was all locked up and lights were out. It was a two-storey building, quite larger than many meetinghouses. I definitely carried a flashlight, and sometimes something more authoritative. It happened that we had had a few instances of break ins, once when it was two young men who intended to start a fire (they didn't like churches, apparently). Luckily a passing patrol officer noticed lights being unusally on for like 3 am, and stopped to have a look. Once someone broke in and stole our ward's computer -- this was back a ways, before MLS even.  

Oh, and in my current UK ward, my wife told me that she was in the building one evening all by herself (she was the Primary president at the time) working on things for the upcoming Sunday. Then unexpectedly someone spoke to her, saying "Hello!" She responded with her own Hello, and then realized there was nobody in the building but her. She thinks that there may be a resident non-corporeal entity. Actually, she said "ghost" but NCE sounds more sophisticated.

[Stargazer]

3 hours ago, LoudmouthMormon said:

Heh.  My ward "had" an emergency plan - it's a 100+ page assortment of articles on survival and emergencies.  It got mailed to the bishop five years ago, and promptly forgotten.  Any guesses on how useful it will be if there's an emergency/disaster?

I have buddies who are a retired military brother and a prepper cop brother.  They have preparadness plans, focusing on preparation.  Food/water storage.  Whole family knowing an offsite location to meet up if separated.  Learn basic first aid.  Battery/solar powered radios.   And their emergency plans both follow the same common sense general outline:

- Are you safe?  If not, get safe. 
- Are the people in your immediate vicinity safe?  If not, help them.
- Is your family safe?  If not, can you get to them safely?  If not, that remains your next priority, but while you're working on that:
- Are your ministering families safe?  If not, help them. 
- Report in to your EQP.  Prepare to receive assignments.  If you're the only one there on top of things, prepare to be the leadership your ward needs.

 

Nice!

I had a prepper friend who was on-again off-again active at church. He was all prepared, guns, ammo, and lots of food. He also had a very detailed and comprehensive escape and evasion plan in case of natural disaster. This area was not far from one of those 16 "Decade Volcanoes", Mt. Rainier to be precise. He had several exfiltration routes mapped out, depending upon the directions the wind might blow the volcano's ash, and included on-foot as well as vehicle routes. He had created several caches of supplies along these routes, buried in public areas but not near habitations. Washington state has lots of wilderness, even next to towns, so plenty of spots to place one's caches.

I admire his dedication, but I doubt he will ever need to use any of it.

[Stargazer]

On 12/2/2022 at 9:00 AM, The Nehor said:

My suggestion was a Fifth Sunday covering various emergencies but sounds like the stake just really wants us to talk only about active shooters.

Which is the least likely scenario, in my opinion.

I was living in earthquake country (Washington state) and our stake had a very comprehensive emergency plan, including using ham radios for emergency communications. We would exercise that plan every other year. We were more prepared for earthquake (we had a big on in 2001), but instead, a few years ago there was a huge wind- and ice-storm that took down lots of trees and power poles. We activated the communications plan, and since I had reliable power due to living near downtown, I was the net control for our ham net. The plan actually worked! I even went out in my van with my radio to investigate road conditions and report back to the stake leaders.

[LoudmouthMormon]

50 minutes ago, Stargazer said:

I had a prepper friend who was on-again off-again active at church. He was all prepared, guns, ammo, and lots of food. He also had a very detailed and comprehensive escape and evasion plan in case of natural disaster. This area was not far from one of those 16 "Decade Volcanoes", Mt. Rainier to be precise.
...
I admire his dedication, but I doubt he will ever need to use any of it.

I'm reminded of two things:

1- I once saw a real estate ad for a remote place in the Nevada desert.  Billed as a bug-out retreat.  Buildings built with the notion that armed people might need to defend the compound from food rioters or government troops.  The 2nd bunker had most of the concrete poured but was incomplete.  Part of the seller's description said "Have to sell because of the divorce."

2- I'm about as serious about prepping as I can be without appearing weird to normal people.  We live out in the middle of nowhere because it was hard to find cheap land in CO and wife wanted a hobby farm.  We're serious about food storage and invest time/$/effort into storing what we eat and eating what we store.  It is not uncommon to have to spend 2-4 days stuck at home during a blizzard, so we're always prepped to spend a few weeks off the grid with alternate power/heat.  And when the forest fire came a few years ago, we had to abandon all our preps in our cool home, and go stay in a hotel in town, and watch the news to see if our house burned down or not.

Ain't no shame in preparing for known possibilities.  But there is a place for reason and wisdom and yeah, it's important to keep a sense of perspective and moderation. 

[Stargazer]

21 hours ago, LoudmouthMormon said:

Ain't no shame in preparing for known possibilities.  But there is a place for reason and wisdom and yeah, it's important to keep a sense of perspective and moderation. 

Where I am presently, prepping isn't a big deal at all. Nobody thinks of it. There is some wilderness in England, but it's impossible to find any large wilderness that is more than 5 miles from some town or village. Even the middle of Dartmoor or Snowdonia National Parks it's only 5 miles to the nearest town or village. My little village is 5 miles from a large "conurbation" of several towns and a medium-large city. Between us and the next small village is less than half-mile. My village is over a thousand years old; it was here when the Normans invaded in 1066. The next town over, just three miles away, is older still. And we're just 40 miles from the outskirts of the London Metropolitan area, with a total population of 14 million. 

The one thing that worries me is that the United Kingdom is not food-independent. Especially in connection with our closeness to London. But it doesn't worry me that much, because there's little I can do about it other than store some food ourselves. I probably possess a year's supply on my person, anyway, so unless they eat me, I can survive a famine. 🙂 

 

Edited December 4, 2022 by Stargazer

[wesleygraham]

Emergency plans really work best when they cover the full range of situations instead of focusing on just one threat. Fires, severe weather, medical emergencies, evacuations, and active violence all require different responses, but the biggest factor is that teachers and volunteers already know what to do before anything happens. Even a short refresher during orientation each year can make a huge difference.

A practical checklist and trauma preparedness resources from FlareSyn (https://flaresyn.com) can help leaders think through the medical side of emergency planning alongside drills and communication procedures. The goal isn't to create fear, it's to make sure everyone, especially children, has a calm and organized response when seconds matter.

[Rain]

8 hours ago, wesleygraham said:

Emergency plans really work best when they cover the full range of situations instead of focusing on just one threat. Fires, severe weather, medical emergencies, evacuations, and active violence all require different responses, but the biggest factor is that teachers and volunteers already know what to do before anything happens. Even a short refresher during orientation each year can make a huge difference.

A practical checklist and trauma preparedness resources from FlareSyn (https://flaresyn.com) can help leaders think through the medical side of emergency planning alongside drills and communication procedures. The goal isn't to create fear, it's to make sure everyone, especially children, has a calm and organized response when seconds matter.

Reported for spam

[Calm]

2 hours ago, Rain said:

Reported for spam

It reads that way to me as well as in someone who works for the store that is mentioned is going online to drive up traffic, but then rereading some of the other posts in the thread I considered they may just be offering some experience to help set up emergency plans in wards (small chance, but possible).

Though the issue is how they found a dead thread if not looking to post a specific topic.  And if looking for a specific topic leans more to spam though maybe they were doing research on emergency plans in wards (very small chance I am thinking).

@wesleygraham, how about sharing how and why you found this thread and posted your post?

Edited 1 hour ago by Calm