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Youth problem / fallout? Same in your ward?

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Faithful, lifelong member here.

Stake had an 8 hour familyhistory event for youth yesterday.

Bishop's fireside tonight.

early morning seminary every week day

Ward conference today.

Wed's night activites every week.

Is there a problem w/ the youth that suggests this much time?

The re-org a while backwhere Bishoprics work w/ the young men directly - I get it.

This just seems like overkill.

Same in your ward?

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Wow, I bet the church is trying very hard to have some way to get the youth to participate it looks like. I remember in my old stake the stake president designated the 1st week of each month "family week". So I believe, if remembering right, there were to be no meetings etc that week, unless I'm wrong and they did have YM/YW's still. 

I did speak with someone at work the other day that husband is in the bishopric and he told her that the bishop was so stressed out being over the young men vs how it use to be the YM's presidency. It makes you wonder if people wish for the days during covid when all the meetings were cancelled and turned to zoom when possible. People could have more time with family.

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32 minutes ago, nuclearfuels said:

Youth problem / fallout? Same in your ward?

community

Sorry, this post has been removed by the moderators of r/lds.

Moderators remove posts from feeds for a variety of reasons, including keeping communities safe, civil, and true to their purpose.

Faithful, lifelong member here.

Stake had an 8 hour familyhistory event for youth yesterday.

Bishop's fireside tonight.

early morning seminary every week day

Ward conference today.

Wed's night activites every week.

Is there a problem w/ the youth that suggests this much time?

The re-org a while backwhere Bishoprics work w/ the young men directly - I get it.

This just seems like overkill.

Same in your ward?

That's a lot.  Though Ward conference isn't for the youth, that happens in every ward, once a year, where the stake leadership works directly with ward leadership and then has a special meeting on Sunday with the Stake leaders in charge.

I guess it would really matter if this was a normal thing or if the 8 hour FH event and Bishop's fireside tonight were both part of one special event, like maybe a youth conference (which most wards have once a year--either with the stake or just the ward)?

Youth conferences are normally 2-3 days long and are based on a theme so if it was a youth conference that you are describing, this kind of meeting, once a year, isn't out of the ordinary.  Also normally, during a week with a youth conference, the normal wednesday night activity wouldn't be held, since the conference would count as the activity that week.

If it's not, and your ward is frequently having this level of stuff for the youth, then I'd assume something was going on behind the scenes.  Like either a youth program with a lot of struggling youth or a really (overly) zealous YW leader or bishop maybe.  If that is the case then the youth will probably be fine but the leaders are going to burn out quickly.

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1 hour ago, Tacenda said:

Wow, I bet the church is trying very hard to have some way to get the youth to participate it looks like.

The only thing on the OP's list that hasn't been a part of the Church since I was baptised is the one-off family history event. I bet the kids loved it!

Quote

I did speak with someone at work the other day that husband is in the bishopric and he told her that the bishop was so stressed out being over the young men vs how it use to be the YM's presidency.

The bishop has always been the president of the priests quorum (and the president of the Aaronic Priesthood). His counsellors have always overseen and attended the other two quorums (which have their own presidencies). Aaronic Priesthood quorums have always had other adult advisers to assist with this. We used to call them a young men presidency, though the only people the young men president presided over were his two counsellors and any other advisers. Literally nothing has changed except the elimination of some titles that had the potential to obscure the situation.

As you'll remember, I was young men president in my old ward for quite a few years, and then I served in the bishopric. We had no trouble getting this right then. For us, nothing has changed.

Edited by Hamba Tuhan
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22 minutes ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

The only thing on the OP's list that hasn't been a part of the Church since I was baptised is the-off family history event. I bet the kids loved it!

The bishop has always been the president of the priests quorum (and the president of the Aaronic Priesthood). His counsellors have always overseen and attended the other two quorums. Aaronic Priesthood quorums have always had other adult advisers to assist with this. We used to call them a young men presidency, though the only people the young men president presided over were his two counsellors and any other advisers. Literally nothing has changed except the elimination of some titles that had the potential to obscure the situation.

As you'll remember, I was young men president in my old ward for quite a few years, and then I served in the bishopric. We had no trouble getting this right then. For us, nothing has changed.

Okay, but maybe the young men's presidency helped lessen the work according to this article below, it's overwhelming for the bishopric to fill the YM's presidency shoes. And maybe the youth need the old way, to have more attention given from less stressed out bishoprics.  

https://www.the-exponent.com/guest-post-bring-back-the-young-men-presidencies/

Edited by Tacenda
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2 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

Okay, but maybe the young men's presidency helped lesson the work? 

There are literally the same number of Aaronic Priesthood quorum advisers now as there were when we called them a 'young men presidency'. And yes, they should be helping to lessen the work. They can do this in large part by helping to teach and train quorum presidencies so that they function correctly. It took us a couple of years to get our quorum presidencies functioning well, but then we had to run to keep up with them.

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1 hour ago, nuclearfuels said:

Youth problem / fallout? Same in your ward?

community

Sorry, this post has been removed by the moderators of r/lds.

Moderators remove posts from feeds for a variety of reasons, including keeping communities safe, civil, and true to their purpose.

Faithful, lifelong member here.

Stake had an 8 hour familyhistory event for youth yesterday.

Bishop's fireside tonight.

early morning seminary every week day

Ward conference today.

Wed's night activites every week.

Is there a problem w/ the youth that suggests this much time?

The re-org a while backwhere Bishoprics work w/ the young men directly - I get it.

This just seems like overkill.

Same in your ward?

My advice is to prayerfully consider what is best for your kids. There is the concept of ‘diminishing’ returns. If you do everything planned for the youth, it can become overwhelming. 

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5 minutes ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

There are literally the same number of Aaronic Priesthood quorum advisers now as there were when we called them a 'young men presidency'. And yes, they should be helping to lessen the work. They can do this in large part by helping to teach and train quorum presidencies so that they function correctly. It took us a couple of years to get our quorum presidencies functioning well, but then we had to run to keep up with them.

Darn, I wish you hadn't quoted me before finally finishing my post, you know me! Hopefully you'll go back and read my finished post with more information and a better spelling job, lol! ;)

May I remind you Hamba, that your ward/stake/branch is night and day different than the average ward I'm aware of. ;) 

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13 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

May I remind you Hamba, that your ward/stake/branch is night and day different than the average ward I'm aware of.

All my ward did was to follow the Handbook and the training we received from the YM General Presidency. That's an option still available to any ward/branch.

I remember one evening after what was then called 'mutual', the bishop of our neighbouring ward asked if I could do some training with his YM presidency. My response: I could, but you won't follow it. I know because it's just what's in the handbook, and you're not following that now. He never asked again.

ETA: I was called as EQ president two weeks ago. My new first counsellor asked me what my 'vision' for the quorum was. My response: 'Whatever is in the Handbook'. Both of my counsellors have embraced that.

When I was called, our ministering interviews were at 52 per cent. I immediately started doing some, and then when my counsellors were called last week, we divided up the rest. As of this morning, we are at 93 per cent. I have treasured every single visit I've made! And we're already starting to see fruit, including a companionship that had never even spoken to each other pulling out their diaries after sacrament meeting yesterday.

EATA:

Quote

It's overwhelming for the bishopric to fill the YM's presidency shoes ...

No one is filling anyone else's shoes. As I wrote above: 'The bishop has always been the president of the priests quorum (and the president of the Aaronic Priesthood). His counsellors have always overseen and attended the other two quorums (which have their own presidencies)'.

Quorums still have advisers to assist. Literally the sole change was to stop calling quorum advisers a 'presidency'. That's it.

Edited by Hamba Tuhan
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1 hour ago, nuclearfuels said:

Youth problem / fallout? Same in your ward?

community

Sorry, this post has been removed by the moderators of r/lds.

Moderators remove posts from feeds for a variety of reasons, including keeping communities safe, civil, and true to their purpose.

Faithful, lifelong member here.

Stake had an 8 hour familyhistory event for youth yesterday.

Bishop's fireside tonight.

early morning seminary every week day

Ward conference today.

Wed's night activites every week.

Is there a problem w/ the youth that suggests this much time?

The re-org a while backwhere Bishoprics work w/ the young men directly - I get it.

This just seems like overkill.

Same in your ward?

That was my life back in the 70’s. Seminary, Wednesday nights…actually I think we were Thursday, we would have quarterly activities as a stake or region, there were firesides, plus road and talent shows, ward parties, fundraisers, summer camps, etc 

Edited by Calm
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20 minutes ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

Quorums still have advisers to assist. Literally the sole change was to stop calling quorum advisers a 'presidency'. That's it.

Your experience is similar to my experience in a ward in Arizona.  There was one other change, however, and it was the elimination of all the BSA roles at the end of 2019 (i.e. Scout Master, etc.).  So the advisors are now more focused to the church programs. 

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2 minutes ago, InCognitus said:

There was one other change, however, and it was the elimination of all the BSA roles at the end of 2019 (i.e. Scout Master, etc.).

A complication (distraction?) we mercifully never had to deal with!

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18 minutes ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

All my ward did was to follow the Handbook and the training we received from the YM General Presidency. That's an option still available to any ward/branch.

I remember one evening after what was then called 'mutual', the bishop of our neighbouring ward asked if I could do some training with his YM presidency. My response: I could, but you won't follow it. I know because it's just what's in the handbook, and you're not following that now. He never asked again.

ETA: I was called as EQ president two weeks ago. My new first counsellor asked me what my 'vision' for the quorum was. My response: 'Whatever is in the Handbook'. Both of my counsellors have embraced that.

When I was called, our ministering interviews were at 52 per cent. I immediately started doing some, and then when my counsellors were called last week, we divided up the rest. As of this morning, we are at 93 per cent. I have treasured every single visit I've made! And we're already starting to see fruit, including a companionship that had never even spoken to each other pulling out their diaries after sacrament meeting yesterday.

EATA:

No one is filling anyone else's shoes. As I wrote above: 'The bishop has always been the president of the priests quorum (and the president of the Aaronic Priesthood). His counsellors have always overseen and attended the other two quorums (which have their own presidencies)'.

Quorums still have advisers to assist. Literally the sole change was to stop calling quorum advisers a 'presidency'. That's it.

Maybe we'll hear from others that are in current bishoprics and it may/may not settle this. :) Just asked my husband about his experience a few years ago as a young men's second counselor. He mentioned they had 88 young men/young women and I remember several activities he was over. Could that be the difference, could that settle our little debate? Do you mind my asking how many youth are in your ward/branch?

BTW, that is awesome about the ministering program, good for you on helping get the interviews up and the companionship of the two, now friends! I was in two different RS presidencies so I understand, back when it was called, visiting teaching. :)

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18 minutes ago, InCognitus said:

Your experience is similar to my experience in a ward in Arizona.  There was one other change, however, and it was the elimination of all the BSA roles at the end of 2019 (i.e. Scout Master, etc.).  So the advisors are now more focused to the church programs. 

That is a very significant difference, boy scouts!

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59 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

Do you mind my asking how many youth are in your ward/branch?

When I was first called as young men president, we had three boys in our ward who regularly attended church, and one who regularly attended 'mutual'. When I was released, we were averaging between 40 and 50 boys at our weekly activities, and close to that for attendance at church. (Some Sundays I would have to make two trips to pick up all the young men who'd asked for lifts to church.)

Quote

I remember several activities he was over.

As second counsellor, your husband would have been called first and foremost as an adviser to the deacons quorum presidency. He should not have been 'over' any activities.

Quorum activities are planned and executed by the quorum presidency. Quoting from the Handbook:

Quote

The bishopric and youth quorum leaders, supported by advisers, plan service and activities.

This is a principle that has been in place for as long as I've been a Church member, and it was emphasised by the YM General Presidency member who trained me.

It's also one that appears to have been completely missed by the anonymous author of the complaint you linked to (referring to her bishopric counsellor husband):

Quote

He goes to planning meetings with Young Men advisors to come up with activities for the Young Men to do.

Activities are planned in presidency meetings by the young men. It's true that bishopric members and advisers attend these meetings to assist, but once again, they always have.

Edited by Hamba Tuhan
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33 minutes ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

When I was first called as young men president, we had three boys in our ward who regularly attended church, and one who regularly attended 'mutual'. When I was released, we were averaging between 40 and 50 boys at our weekly activities, and close to that for attendance at church. (Some Sundays I would have to make two trips to pick up all the young men who'd asked asked for lifts to church.)

As second counsellor, your husband would have been called first and foremost as an adviser to the deacons quorum presidency. He should not have been 'over' any activities.

Quorum activities are planned and executed by the quorum presidency. Quoting from the Handbook:

This is a principle that has been in place for as long as I've been a Church member, and it was emphasised by the YM General Presidency member who trained me.

It's also one that appears to have been completely missed by the anonymous author of the complaint you linked to (referring to her bishopric counsellor husband):

Activities are planned in presidency meetings by the young men. It's true that bishopric members and advisers attend these meetings to assist, but once again, they always have.

He may have been an adviser at one time. I remember one where he made a Devil pinata and labeled it, "Beat the devil" and "know" your scriptures. He and I are opposites, he probably could be in the world record for having memorized the most scriptures, which drove me nuts when someone spoke in church and would read a scripture and my husband knew it by heart and rattled it off. I wish you could meet him because I'm not exaggerating! 

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5 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

He may have been an adviser at one time.

I think you misunderstand. The language in the previous handbook was, accurately paraphrased: 'The bishopric calls a man as an adviser to the deacons quorum. This man also serves as the second counsellor in the young men presidency'. Your husband was the adviser to the deacons quorum.

The whole purpose of the young men presidency was to supply advisers to the various quorums. We still do that. Nothing has changed.

Edited by Hamba Tuhan
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As others have said, apart from the stake FH activity, it just seems like a normal set of ward/stake events to me.

Based on the stake quarterly report, our youth attendance is 50% of the "potential", but that "potential" list includes kids whose parents I don't think I've seen attend in over a decade, if I've seen them attend at all.  (One ward in the stake is dragging the overall percentage down for this reason). I would probably put it at 70-80% if I could guess a more accurate number.

The overall percentages have dropped over the past 4 years, but quarter to quarter the numbers are highly variable between and within wards, and for the reasons above, historical percentages alone don't give the whole story.

 

 

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2 hours ago, JustAnAustralian said:

Based on the stake quarterly report, our youth attendance is 50% of the "potential", but that "potential" list includes kids whose parents I don't think I've seen attend in over a decade, if I've seen them attend at all.  (One ward in the stake is dragging the overall percentage down for this reason). I would probably put it at 70-80% if I could guess a more accurate number.

I no longer have access to the stake's report, but here are the relevant stats for my ward from last quarter:

  • Young men with priesthood office appropriate for their age: 88 per cent.
  • Young men attending priesthood and Sunday School meetings: 82 per cent.
  • Young women attending Young Women and Sunday School meetings: 33 per cent.
  • Youth with a current proxy baptisms and confirmations temple recommend: 50 per cent.

All of these show an increase over four years except for young women attendance, which has declined 57 per cent! I've worried for some years that we were getting something very wrong in our Young Women program. Apparently I haven't been wrong ...

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8 hours ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

I think you misunderstand. The language in the previous handbook was, accurately paraphrased: 'The bishopric calls a man as an adviser to the deacons quorum. This man also serves as the second counsellor in the young men presidency'. Your husband was the adviser to the deacons quorum.

The whole purpose of the young men presidency was to supply advisers to the various quorums. We still do that. Nothing has changed.

My husband first said priest quorum adviser and then said it may have been second counselor in the young men's presidency. So I think he has sometimers/Alzheimer's ;) like me and can't remember or may have served in both, because I remember he was very busy in the organization, especially with scout camps and him doing all the cooking as well. So he was involved with activities at the church as well or service projects too.  

ETA: It was probably more in the past than I'm thinking, he was also put in the High Priests presidency for a long while after serving with the youth and then the last calling he had was team teaching Primary 11/12 year olds for a few years. So it was a long time ago, when my sons were in YM's. My sons are now 33, 30 and 25. So my goodness that was around 17 years ago! 

Edited by Tacenda
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11 hours ago, nuclearfuels said:

Youth problem / fallout? Same in your ward?

community

Sorry, this post has been removed by the moderators of r/lds.

Moderators remove posts from feeds for a variety of reasons, including keeping communities safe, civil, and true to their purpose.

Faithful, lifelong member here.

Stake had an 8 hour familyhistory event for youth yesterday.

Bishop's fireside tonight.

early morning seminary every week day

Ward conference today.

Wed's night activites every week.

Is there a problem w/ the youth that suggests this much time?

The re-org a while backwhere Bishoprics work w/ the young men directly - I get it.

This just seems like overkill.

Same in your ward?

It is overkill.  But the church wants to fill your time up.  It is a way to control members.

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11 hours ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

The only thing on the OP's list that hasn't been a part of the Church since I was baptised is the one-off family history event. I bet the kids loved it!

The bishop has always been the president of the priests quorum (and the president of the Aaronic Priesthood). His counsellors have always overseen and attended the other two quorums (which have their own presidencies). Aaronic Priesthood quorums have always had other adult advisers to assist with this. We used to call them a young men presidency, though the only people the young men president presided over were his two counsellors and any other advisers. Literally nothing has changed except the elimination of some titles that had the potential to obscure the situation.

As you'll remember, I was young men president in my old ward for quite a few years, and then I served in the bishopric. We had no trouble getting this right then. For us, nothing has changed.

No more YM president?

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11 hours ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

No one is filling anyone else's shoes. As I wrote above: 'The bishop has always been the president of the priests quorum (and the president of the Aaronic Priesthood). His counsellors have always overseen and attended the other two quorums (which have their own presidencies)'.

Quorums still have advisers to assist. Literally the sole change was to stop calling quorum advisers a 'presidency'. That's it.

Ok you just answered my question. So why the change?

Edited by Teancum
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6 hours ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

I no longer have access to the stake's report, but here are the relevant stats for my ward from last quarter:

  • Young men with priesthood office appropriate for their age: 88 per cent.
  • Young men attending priesthood and Sunday School meetings: 82 per cent.
  • Young women attending Young Women and Sunday School meetings: 33 per cent.
  • Youth with a current proxy baptisms and confirmations temple recommend: 50 per cent.

All of these show an increase over four years except for young women attendance, which has declined 57 per cent! I've worried for some years that we were getting something very wrong in our Young Women program. Apparently I haven't been wrong ...

Thanks for the down vote about the church filling up your time to control you.  I know the truth hurts.  But this is what high demand organizations do. It is not just the church.  But the church does dominate an active members time.  I am sure you have associate with non LDS who when they see the amount of time the church takes they are a bit surprised.  Anyway sorry if that made you mad.

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