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Can the Church take the gospel to the world?


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On 4/4/2022 at 4:26 PM, Navidad said:

I didn't watch any of the general conference. I did follow along with Ken's comments. I find that the stake conferences and the general conferences are LDS family events. My watching the GC would be like if I showed up at your family reunion. I wouldn't belong and would most likely feel like an outsider. I wish you all the very best with these family events. I know I will hear summaries of all the talks over the next few years in the ward. If you have a talk especially in your mind that I should listen to, please let me know. I will be happy to do so. Best wishes.

All are welcome to watch conference

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17 hours ago, Islander said:

Unfortunately, facts are not in our favor. in practice LDS people are rather insular, withdrawn,, elitist and quite pharisaic in life style. The evidence is that in 5 years there has not been ONE baptism in my current ward. We are known for many things but not for being truly Christ-like in real life at a personal level.  I was just reflecting a "testimony" by a member a month ago where went on to give thanks for "...being able to pay tithing, for fasting, for personal righteousness, for the holiness in his home..." Truly it sounded like the prayer in the temple court by the Pharisee in Luke 18:11. He left the pulpit pretty pleased with himself while completely oblivious 0ot what he had said. more importantly, what the Savior had said about the likes of him. 

Can you imagine of every family in the ward would pour itself out and truly loved one person and showed them the same level of care, attention, interest, love and affection they spend on themselves? If every family would bring JUST 1 person into the church in a year, the church would double in size. But that will never happen, based on what has happened in the last decade or so. 

So let’s change that. We had two convert baptisms last weekend. If there are people testifying to the wrong things, get up and testify of Jesus Christ. The restoration. The scriptures etc

 

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17 hours ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

Despite all the disruptions of COVID, my ward has had two convert baptisms in the past six months (both through member missionary work), and one of my mates is currently preparing to be baptised before the end of the month.

So yeah, not everyone has lost the plot.

That’s what I like to see

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Missionary work has benefited from Covid here in Sweden to some degree. I have seen the missionaries do great miracles and I have had the opportunity to help fellowship investigators and new members in the ward. We have had 2 so far this year i think. Very grateful for the senior couples as well, they are such a blessing for us. So glad, for all the faithful members that sacrifice and bless our lives. You are all such a blessing

Felt inspired by general conference to do more and be a better more christlike witness of Christ. I think we can all contribute in small ways (don’t burn yourself out though!)

The gospel is now available online and has reached the world in that way. I have heard it said before that God invented the internet for missionary work and family history work.

But something we can do is to Post on social media, make new friends, raise your family in the gospel, and most importantly live the gospel. God Speed.

 

Edited by SwedishLDS
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On 4/3/2022 at 9:43 AM, JLHPROF said:

If people have heard enough of Christ to make the educated choice to believe on his name or not then we fulfilled the responsibility.

Noah was a great missionary.  Too bad not many accepted his message but he did his job. Missionary work can be viewed about getting people off the fence.  A successful missionary either help lead that person towards salvation and exaltation or exposes them to enough knowledge and truth to move them more towards condemnation and damnation.  Either way in what direction the person chooses, if we do our job,  we are fulfilled the calling and in the clear.

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8 minutes ago, carbon dioxide said:

A successful missionary either help lead that person towards salvation and exaltation or exposes them to enough knowledge and truth to move them more towards condemnation and damnatio

I prefer the viewpoint that the second option is preparing the ‘ground’ for a later experience that will then find them prepared to receive the gospel. 

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From a perspective on missionary work that focuses strictly on numbers, in terms of real, live, flesh-and-blood human beings that they, themselves had an impact on, frankly, Mormon and Moroni both were rotten missionaries.  Insofar as the record shows (and it is a record that they, themselves preserved and promulgated, so one would think that they would have a vested interest in making themselves look as good as possible) they didn't convert a single soul.  I mean, why not fudge the numbers at least a little bit? :unknw: 

Each of them tried to exhort his apostate nation to faithfulness ... without, insofar as the record shows, really any success.  In light of that failure, they could do three things: (1) save their own skin, (2) preserve, protect, and abridge the records entrusted to their care, and (3) stand as silent witnesses to the tragic downfall of their people.  And yet ...

The lives of how many millions of people (in their day, generations yet unborn) have been blessed by the record that they went to such great lengths to preserve, protect, and abridge?  How many millions of people have gotten to know the Christ, the Son of the Living God, by supping voraciously at the grand table of the buffet and drinking deeply from the well of Living Water that, today, is known as The Book of Mormon?

I'm struck by the plaintiveness of Moroni's lament.  Except for the dozens, hundreds, thousands, hundreds of thousands, and perhaps millions of people who would kill him the moment they laid eyes on him, speaking of those very same people, the Lamanites, Moroni reminds us:

Quote

Mormon 8, all ellipses mine:

3 And my father ... was killed by them, and I even remain alone to write the sad tale of the destruction of my people. But behold, they are gone, and I fulfil the commandment of my father. And whether they will slay me, I know not. ...

7 And behold, the Lamanites have hunted my people, the Nephites, down from city to city and from place to place, even until they are no more; and great has been their fall; yea, great and marvelous is the destruction of my people, the Nephites.

 

Later on, after having abridged the record of the Jaredites, Moroni continues:

Quote

Moroni 1, ellipses and emphasis mine:

1 Now I, Moroni ... I had supposed not to have written more, but I have not as yet perished; and I make not myself known to the Lamanites lest they should destroy me.

2 For behold, their wars are exceedingly fierce among themselves; and because of their hatred they put to death every Nephite that will not deny the Christ.

3 And I, Moroni, will not deny the Christ ; wherefore, I wander whithersoever I can for the safety of mine own life.

 

Now, why do I bring any of this up?  For one thing, in light of sacrifices such as this one and countless others, can we ... all of us ... be better missionaries?  You bet we can.  Perhaps we ought, at least briefly, to reflect on whether we owe the Mormons and the Moronis of the world, along with others who have sacrificed so much so that we can have what, too often, we take for granted at least that much.*  

But for another thing, it isn't about the numbers: We ought not forget that behind every number is a name, and behind every name is a real, live, flesh-and-blood human being with fears, with prejudices, perhaps, and with pesky, annoying free will all his own.  The best blood in all of human history was spilt for that free will: Who are we ... who is any of us ... to question that?

Right now, is the pendulum swinging, decidedly, away from the direction of faith and in directions that, long term, won't satisfy the basic human longing to answer life's most fundamental questions ... Who am I?  Why am I here?  And where am I going after I die? ... Certainly.  I don't think any reasonable, reasonably-intelligent, honest observer can deny that. 

Is there reason to believe that the Saints will convert the world?  Perhaps not.  (In fact, definitely not, because it is not the Saints who convert anybody.)  It is the Lord, through His Holy Spirit, who does that.  But, through all the secular and other storms to come, storms of every kind and intensity, all of which, in one way or another, would, if they were allowed to do so, erode faith, if there does not remain a body of Saints that utterly refuses to listen to "reason," remaining, instead, committed to faith despite all of the myriad ways in which such a stance (to the "reasonable") is untenable, what will happen once the pendulum begins to swing back from the direction of reason and in the direction of faith, if all the Saints have fled the faith because they have listened to reason's siren song and clarion call?  Who will be left to greet the Prodigals who, returning from the desert of reason, desperately will be seeking Living Water?

Ultimately, this is God's work, and He can do it without the help of anyone who seems more "reasonable" than He is.  "I am able to do mine own work," He reminds the "reasonable."  (See 2 Nephi 27:20.)  Does He allow us mere mortals to help?  Yes.  But not because of what we need to do for Him, but, rather, because of what helping does for us, in terms of changing us, changing our natures and making us more godly beings who are more fit for His Kingdom.

So I would suggest that a better course of action, rather than throwing our hands up in helplessness at the seemingly-gargantuan (seemingly-impossible, in fact) task before us is to ask, as the rich young man asked the Savior (even though, as it turned out, the former didn't like the latter's answer), "Lord, what lack I yet?"  It is to ask, "How can I help?", not because of what I can do for God (I can't do anything for God: In terms of the "power dynamics" of our relationship, He's the one with all the power), but, rather, because of what He, through allowing me to help Him, can do for me.

_____________

* And, by the way, to each, his or her own, but, personally, "inspired fiction," my foot!

Edited by Kenngo1969
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On 4/5/2022 at 3:38 PM, Avatar4321 said:

So let’s change that. We had two convert baptisms last weekend. If there are people testifying to the wrong things, get up and testify of Jesus Christ. The restoration. The scriptures etc

 

Good luck with that.

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Apostasy in the last days are foretold before the coming of christ. But I do think the internet and gospel will be brought in a very generic way to everyone at the very least. Christ will take the gospel to the world, but we can be a part of the process.

"Everyone" will have the opportunity to feel the spirit or to act on truth at least once, I believe. We are taught that everyone has the light of christ within them.

Testify, and share the gospel any chance you get.

 

The gospel will go to every country and every person

 

Edited by SwedishLDS
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On 4/3/2022 at 12:43 PM, JLHPROF said:

How many of those already living already know of the gospel?

Not many.

On 4/3/2022 at 12:43 PM, JLHPROF said:

 

  How many already know the first principles, especially that Christ is Lord and Savior.

Well many more know about Jesus but may disagree with you about what the "first principles" are. In fact most Christians would reject Mormonisms "first principles."

On 4/3/2022 at 12:43 PM, JLHPROF said:

The command to spread the gospel has always been about accountability more than about conversion.  A small percentage of those who hear the gospel are ever going to accept it (and even fewer live it and stick with it).

Yea sure. In other words since we cannot seem to convert hardly anyone these days we will ignore that stone cut out of the mountain filling the entire world thing that we used to crow about.

On 4/3/2022 at 12:43 PM, JLHPROF said:

If people have heard enough of Christ to make the educated choice to believe on his name or not then we fulfilled the responsibility.

Ummm it is not just about hearing about Jesus it is about hearing the Mormon Gospel.

On 4/3/2022 at 12:43 PM, JLHPROF said:

As you quoted President Nelson the responsibility is "with all who will listen and who will let God prevail in their lives.". That's not everyone.

 

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On 4/3/2022 at 9:13 PM, Avatar4321 said:

I’m astounded at some of these responses.

God didn’t give us a command we cannot keep. We will do it if we trust Him.

What we need is momentum or forward thrust. If every member shared the gospel with one person every month for the next year, we could potentially reach between 204,000,000 and every person on earth within a year.

 

God told the apostles to take the gospel to all nations. They did what they did but I don’t think they reached all nations.

Joseph Smith got a similar command and his generation did what they did (this is axiomatic but saying any generation or individual did the best they could is probably false).

We will do the same. Some day it will be fulfilled completely.

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Overall membership in 2021 was 16,805,400
Overall membership in 2020 was 16,663,663
A net increase of 141,437

New converts in 2021 = 168,283

Membership increase didn't even cover the number of new converts.
World population growth is about 1% which would also be more than the increase in membership growth.

Seems like the church is bleeding members and losing ground.

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On 4/3/2022 at 12:51 PM, mfbukowski said:

The notion that our view of God actually is  one of worshipping the ideal Human Being, whom we can emulate both in this life and in the afterlife, to "be all we can be" and eventually become an Ideal Being ourselves, is what attracted me.

Why do we need to worship a being?  Why does this ideal Human Being seem to have a great need to be worshipped?

 

On 4/3/2022 at 12:51 PM, mfbukowski said:

We are the ultimate Human Potential Movement, but no one sees it that way.

No one?  Well LDS do.  Other Christians view this as heretical.

 

On 4/3/2022 at 12:51 PM, mfbukowski said:

We need to change that.  More humanity. More helping the needy, homeless, more seeing God as not a transcendent cloud,

Who think God is a cloud?  And humans can help the needy, homeless, etc without worshiping a god.

On 4/3/2022 at 12:51 PM, mfbukowski said:

 

but as our Father with whom we can communicate.

That's what we have, that no one else has, and what the world needs NOW, and makes us the only true and LIVING church.  Who else has that?  :)

 

I guess the message is not very attractive or appealing.

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On 4/4/2022 at 11:40 PM, Hamba Tuhan said:

Despite all the disruptions of COVID, my ward has had two convert baptisms in the past six months (both through member missionary work), and one of my mates is currently preparing to be baptised before the end of the month.

So yeah, not everyone has lost the plot.

Where do you live?  Two baptisms in six months seem rather pathetic. And tell me about your converts? When was the last time a family was baptized into your ward?

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On 4/5/2022 at 5:43 PM, SwedishLDS said:

The gospel is now available online and has reached the world in that way. I have heard it said before that God invented the internet for missionary work and family history work.

Mormons are so ego centric. They think every great invention is for them and the church.  Hogwash.  God did  not  invent the internet.  If he did why did he wait so long? 🤔

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1 hour ago, Teancum said:

Mormons are so ego centric. They think every great invention is for them and the church.  Hogwash.  God did  not  invent the internet.  If he did why did he wait so long? 🤔

Your word: Hogwash

How do you make up this stuff?  It's a constant stream.

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1 hour ago, Teancum said:

Why do we need to worship a being?  Why does this ideal Human Being seem to have a great need to be worshipped?

Because it generally creates a sense of belonging, stability, community, of being cared for in those who are worshippers.  Which is something humans need.  He does it for us. 

Edited by Calm
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3 minutes ago, Calm said:

Because it generally creates a sense of belonging, stability, community, of being cared for in those who are worshippers.  Which is something humans need.  He does it for us. 

Thanks

I'm done.  It's constant.

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1 hour ago, Teancum said:

Overall membership in 2021 was 16,805,400
Overall membership in 2020 was 16,663,663
A net increase of 141,437

New converts in 2021 = 168,283

Membership increase didn't even cover the number of new converts.
World population growth is about 1% which would also be more than the increase in membership growth.

Seems like the church is bleeding members and losing ground.

Membership increased but we are losing ground? I know you are using that in a specific sense but that sense doesn’t make a lot of sense. Growth has slowed perhaps but still growing.

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1 hour ago, Teancum said:

Mormons are so ego centric. They think every great invention is for them and the church.  Hogwash.  God did  not  invent the internet.  If he did why did he wait so long? 🤔

He waited because he also foresaw social media and realized it would destroy the world so have to wait for the Last Days or the world would end too early.

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1 hour ago, Teancum said:

Mormons are so ego centric. They think every great invention is for them and the church.  Hogwash.  God did  not  invent the internet.  If he did why did he wait so long? 🤔

Yes, he should have given Joseph Smith and the early members of the church smart phones and a computers with the internet right from the start.  I can see the disappointment on their faces as they struggle to find a place to charge their phones for the first time.

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1 hour ago, Teancum said:

Mormons are so ego centric. They think every great invention is for them and the church.  Hogwash.  God did  not  invent the internet.  If he did why did he wait so long? 🤔

You can do a lot of good with the internet, but there is also so much bad that comes with it. Basically everyone watches porn frequently these days. Every young kid has interacted with porn these days, and I remember being called a prude and having a pornographic picture shoved up in my face in middle school (im 24)

Consider these statistics of porn use:

Today, porn addiction, or problematic pornography use, affects approximately 3-6%of the adult population. Up to 65 percent of young adult men and 18 percent of young women report at least once a week, though this amount can be much higher.

The increasing exposure of children to internet porn also likely contributes to the rise in porn addiction. Age restrictions on porn sites often consist of no more than a button to click claiming to be 18 or older. The median age of first exposure to pornography is now only 14 years old. As many as 93.2% of boysand 62.1% of girls first see porn before they turn 18. Early exposure to porn is correlated with increased porn use and addiction later in life.

Edited by SwedishLDS
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1 hour ago, Calm said:

Because it generally creates a sense of belonging, stability, community, of being cared for in those who are worshippers.  Which is something humans need.  He does it for us. 

That really makes no sense. 

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