Fether Posted January 7, 2022 Posted January 7, 2022 2 hours ago, MacGyver said: Fair enough. It sound like it may have been a teacher's personal opinion or maybe how you understood what they were saying. I remember the point being made that Christ refers to us as gods (lower case) in John 10:34, and that was a signification of specie, and not title. That is the only reference I can provide. Made sense (and still does). But I see that it is more of an English working of the word and holds no merit over whatever the original translation was.
MacGyver Posted January 7, 2022 Posted January 7, 2022 1 hour ago, Fether said: I remember the point being made that Christ refers to us as gods (lower case) in John 10:34, and that was a signification of specie, and not title. That is the only reference I can provide. Made sense (and still does). But I see that it is more of an English working of the word and holds no merit over whatever the original translation was. That's a great scripture. That's the first thing that popped in my head when I saw your initial comment. I think what Christ was saying with this is that we are the offspring of God and have the potential to become as he is. 1
pogi Posted January 7, 2022 Posted January 7, 2022 (edited) 17 hours ago, JLHPROF said: Kittens become cats, puppies become dogs, and children become adults. What do God's spirit children become? Devils. Edited January 7, 2022 by pogi 1
Robert F. Smith Posted January 7, 2022 Posted January 7, 2022 On 1/6/2022 at 2:24 PM, thatjimguy said: Hey all, reading Abraham 4 today and I think I remember coming across this before, but it talks about Gods instead of God creating the world and such......................... It is very much a matter of translation into English: Hebrew plural אלהים ʼElohim, “God, Gods,” as in Gen 1:26, 3:22 "let us" (1 Ki 22:19-20, Job 1, Isa 6), refers to the heavenly beings surrounding God.[1] This is the same word as Canaanite (Ugaritic) ʼIlāhūma, and Gregorio Del Olmo Lete characterizes ilhm in Ugaritic texts as "the ʼIlāhūma, divine beings," and relates them to Hebrew ʼĕlōhîm[2] (Sephardic ě-lō-heem, Elōheem[3]); while Tess Dawson says that "the Ugaritic word ʼilahuma is related to one of the names of the Hebrew deity, Elohim, which means ‘gods’.” However, she sees the ʼilahuma or Divine Assembly as the sons and daughters of ʼAthiratu and Ilu -- ʼAthiratu = Asherah, who is elsewhere the consort of YHWH.[4] [1] G. Von Rad, Genesis, 58-59. [2] G. Del Olmo Lete, Canaanite Religion, 2nd ed., 82,85,87,180. [3] J. Seixas, Manual Hebrew Grammar, 2nd ed., 15, 55-56 (§ 63 Elōheem), 85. [4] T. Dawson, The Horned Altar: Rediscovering & Rekindling Canaanite Magic (MN: Llewellyn Worldwide, 2013), 48; J. Milgrom, Leviticus 17-22, 1380, 1385; Daniel Peterson, “Nephi and His Asherah,” JBMS, 9/2 (2000):16-25, online at https://scholarsarchive.byu.edu/cgi/ viewcontent.cgi?article=1253&context=jbms . 1
rodheadlee Posted January 8, 2022 Posted January 8, 2022 On 1/6/2022 at 1:24 PM, thatjimguy said: Hey all, reading Abraham 4 today and I think I remember coming across this before, but it talks about Gods instead of God creating the world and such. To a point, this does not bother me, because I understand there was a council in heaven and the pre-existence and all, it would make sense that God would just command others to do the task (and also said in the temple). In the mainstream Christian view though, there is no pre-existence and God does it, almost implying he does it by will alone. I can see this as a big hiccup for investigators, seeing this as taking away God's power, or weakening him. Any thoughts on how to field this if it were to come up? Well if I all we did in heaven was sit around and play Harps it would get pretty boring. I certainly hope God gives us jobs to do. And by the way the foreman or the boss is the most important person on the job site.
The Nehor Posted January 8, 2022 Posted January 8, 2022 1 hour ago, rodheadlee said: Well if I all we did in heaven was sit around and play Harps it would get pretty boring. I certainly hope God gives us jobs to do. And by the way the foreman or the boss is the most important person on the job site. Not always. Sometimes they are total morons who everyone else has to work around. 1
mfbukowski Posted January 9, 2022 Posted January 9, 2022 On 1/6/2022 at 5:31 PM, Fether said: 🤷🏻♂️ It’s just what I had been taught all through growing up in seminary and institute. Gods refers to the godhead. gods refers to spirit children of God. Clearly wrong. Adam is not part of the Godhead. Neither are Peter James and John. They're probably watering it down for the babies to sound more like traditional Christianity- though of course even that is not close. Never heard of that idea before
mfbukowski Posted January 9, 2022 Posted January 9, 2022 (edited) On 1/6/2022 at 6:50 PM, JLHPROF said: Kittens become cats, puppies become dogs, and children become adults. What do God's spirit children become? Well since you brought up dogs, I have known a few who became ...... Nevermind. Edited January 9, 2022 by mfbukowski
JLHPROF Posted January 9, 2022 Posted January 9, 2022 6 hours ago, mfbukowski said: Clearly wrong. Adam is not part of the Godhead. In the temple he is one of the creators of the earth and one who delivers priesthood authority to man. 1
mfbukowski Posted January 9, 2022 Posted January 9, 2022 3 hours ago, JLHPROF said: In the temple he is one of the creators of the earth and one who delivers priesthood authority to man. Yes. There are 3 in the Godhead. Father. Son. Holy Ghost. I can't see the name Adam in that group, do you?
JLHPROF Posted January 9, 2022 Posted January 9, 2022 8 minutes ago, mfbukowski said: Yes. There are 3 in the Godhead. Father. Son. Holy Ghost. I can't see the name Adam in that group, do you? The person filling each Godhead role changes. According to the temple those roles during the creation were filled by Eloheim, Jehovah, and Michael/Adam. “An everlasting covenant was made between three personages before the organization of this earth, and relates to their dispensation of things to men on the earth; these personages according to Abraham’s record, are called God the first, the Creator; God the second, the Redeemer; and God the third, the Witness or Testator.” 1
Freedom Posted January 10, 2022 Posted January 10, 2022 On 1/6/2022 at 6:02 PM, Calm said: I think that applies fine to the last hundred years or so (though still should see if context pushes it one way or the other) of church writings, but I would be very cautious about attributing that differentiation to an era where capitalization and other punctuation were inconsistent to begin with and many authorities had hit and miss educations. And I would suggest never making that assumption when talking about scripture because it is almost all from before the generic typical English education and adoption of the Gods/gods quirk in our faith (other Christian faiths use “gods” for pagan/mythological and therefore in their view false gods) plus many LDS scholars and others use nonLDS sources in scripture commentary. There is a danger of.reading too much into a particular word, expression or even an entire event. Lehis parenting method of telling his older sons to be more like Nephi is just bad parenting and is harmful. We have to.accept it for the time it was written and strive to apply the intended principle. The Joseph smith translation speaks to the challenge of rendering an ancient text in modern terms. Joseph did his best to express the intent.
Navidad Posted January 10, 2022 Posted January 10, 2022 On 1/6/2022 at 7:50 PM, JLHPROF said: Kittens become cats, puppies become dogs, and children become adults. What do God's spirit children become? Baptists! ............................................................................................................................................................................... Just joking! A little humor to lighten the stress of an orange Chihuahua covid mandate!
mfbukowski Posted January 10, 2022 Posted January 10, 2022 13 hours ago, JLHPROF said: The person filling each Godhead role changes. According to the temple those roles during the creation were filled by Eloheim, Jehovah, and Michael/Adam. “An everlasting covenant was made between three personages before the organization of this earth, and relates to their dispensation of things to men on the earth; these personages according to Abraham’s record, are called God the first, the Creator; God the second, the Redeemer; and God the third, the Witness or Testator.” 1. Source, please. 2. So there was a covenant? Even if your source is valid, all that shows is that there was a covenant, not that the positions change, and says nothing about Adam/Michael being part of it. 3. And IF it was an everlasting covenant, that means that Adam is still in the Godhead. No evidence for that at all. Just seems like a twist of the Adam/God theory.
mfbukowski Posted January 10, 2022 Posted January 10, 2022 6 hours ago, Navidad said: Baptists! ............................................................................................................................................................................... Just joking! A little humor to lighten the stress of an orange Chihuahua covid mandate! Yeah, we have a couple of orange chihuahuas down the block who yap at anyone who goes by! But I didn't know they had a covid mandate. They're probably just grumpy. 2
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