What does “Eternal Families” mean?

[Fether]

“Eternal Families”

“Families can be together forever”

“family relationships to be perpetuated beyond the grave.”

What does all this mean? What does this actually look like? Do we have any sources that qualify this a little more beyond those phrases? What do we know and not know?

I have met MANY members (current and former alike) that understand it all to mean that if you don’t go to the celestial kingdom, you will be barred from seeing your family, but you can still hangout with everyone else in your respected kingdom. 
 

I have always taken the approach that we don’t really know what eternal family means beyond those few lines. I’ll sometimes point the Doctrine and Covenants 19 where it explains that the word “Eternal” simply means “belonging to God”, so “eternal family” is just “God’s family” that that not being an eternal family does not mean that God is going to bar you from those you were raised by, but rather, eternal family means to eternally live in an ever growing family setting… however the context of what is said and the feeling of the wording doesn’t always support that, but rather seems to support the cultural understanding many members have.

Does anyone have any insights on this? Any references to words of the prophets or scripture?

Edited December 19, 2021 by Fether

[JLHPROF]

"[The Prophet Joseph Smith] taught me many great and glorious principles concerning God and the heavenly order of eternity. It was at this time that I received from him the first idea of eternal family organization, and the eternal union of the sexes in those inexpressibly endearing relationships which none but the highly intellectual, the refined and pure in heart, know how to prize, and which are at the very foundation of everything worthy to be called happiness.

Till then I had learned to esteem kindred affections and sympathies as appertaining solely to this transitory state, as something from which the heart must be entirely weaned, in order to be fitted for its heavenly state.

It was Joseph Smith who taught me how to prize the endearing relationships of father and mother, husband and wife; of brother and sister, son and daughter.

It was from him that I learned that the wife of my bosom might be secured to me for time and all eternity; and that the refined sympathies and affections which endeared us to each other emanated from the fountain of divine eternal love. It was from him that I learned that we might cultivate these affections, and grow and increase in the same to all eternity; while the result of our endless union would be an offspring as numerous as the stars of heaven, or the sands of the sea shore.

It was from him that I learned the true dignity and destiny of a son of God, clothed with an eternal priesthood, as the patriarch and sovereign of his countless offspring. It was from him that I learned that the highest dignity of womanhood was, to stand as a queen and priestess to her husband, and to reign for ever and ever as the queen mother of her numerous and still increasing offspring.

I had loved before, but I knew not why. But now I loved—with a pureness—an intensity of elevated, exalted feeling, which would lift my soul from the transitory things of this grovelling sphere and expand it as the ocean. I felt that God was my heavenly Father indeed; that Jesus was my brother, and that the wife of my bosom was an immortal, eternal companion; a kind ministering angel, given to me as a comfort, and a crown of glory for ever and ever. In short, I could now love with the spirit and with the understanding also." - Parley P. Pratt

[JLHPROF]

The following entry (Tuesday, 16 May 1843) from the journal of William Clayton confirms that Joseph Smith was indeed teaching the doctrine of eternal marriage and not simply about the necessity of receiving the priesthood. Brother Clayton recorded Joseph Smith’s words as follows:

Except a man and his wife enter into an everlasting covenant and be married for eternity, while in this probation; by the power and authority of the Holy priesthood; they will cease to increase when they die, that is, they will not have any children after the resurrection; but those who are married by the power and authority of the Priesthood in this life, and continue without committing the sin against the Holy Ghost, will continue to increase and have children in the celestial glory.”

Edited December 19, 2021 by JLHPROF

[Fether]

7 minutes ago, JLHPROF said:

The following entry (Tuesday, 16 May 1843) from the journal of William Clayton confirms that Joseph Smith was indeed teaching the doctrine of eternal marriage and not simply about the necessity of receiving the priesthood. Brother Clayton recorded Joseph Smith’s words as follows:

Except a man and his wife enter into an everlasting covenant and be married for eternity, while in this probation; by the power and authority of the Holy priesthood; they will cease to increase when they die, that is, they will not have any children after the resurrection; but those who are married by the power and authority of the Priesthood in this life, and continue without committing the sin against the Holy Ghost, will continue to increase and have children in the celestial glory.”

So, from this entry, eternal families is about eternal increase between a husband and a wife, and has nothing to do with one’s ability to be around those we lived with on Earth?

[JLHPROF]

17 minutes ago, Fether said:

So, from this entry, eternal families is about eternal increase between a husband and a wife, and has nothing to do with one’s ability to be around those we lived with on Earth?

It's not an either or, it's both.  What blessings are pronounced on couples in the sealing ceremony? And D&C 130-132?

D&C 130:2 tells us that "that same sociality which exists among us here will exist among us there, only it will be coupled with eternal glory, which glory we do not now enjoy."

Both Celestial society AND the blessings of exaltation are entirely encompassed in the eternal family.  There is no other "heaven" in our religion.  It's God's work and glory, the perpetuation of the race and society of the Gods.  And it is ours also.

[CV75]

38 minutes ago, Fether said:

So, from this entry, eternal families is about eternal increase between a husband and a wife, and has nothing to do with one’s ability to be around those we lived with on Earth?

I think that inasmuch as someone is ministering to lesser kingdoms, eternal families can minister to loved ones in lesser kingdoms. Even the ministering of the Holy Ghost has to be carried out by someone ("but of the Holy Spirit through the ministration of the terrestrial"). Of course, husband and wife and exalted family members will be in the Church of the Firstborn.

I sometimes think that there is nothing greater than to be sealed to Christ, which I think is where the genealogical sealings back to Adam will eventually point since he will one day turn over his stewardship, including the sealed chain, to Christ. But why wouldn't our current familial relationships continue along with that?

[Fether]

1 hour ago, JLHPROF said:

It's not an either or, it's both.  What blessings are pronounced on couples in the sealing ceremony? And D&C 130-132?

D&C 130:2 tells us that "that same sociality which exists among us here will exist among us there, only it will be coupled with eternal glory, which glory we do not now enjoy."

Both Celestial society AND the blessings of exaltation are entirely encompassed in the eternal family.  There is no other "heaven" in our religion.  It's God's work and glory, the perpetuation of the race and society of the Gods.  And it is ours also.

what would you say about the notion that those who are not in the celestial kingdom are barred from seeing their family? And what specifically would two brothers who are exalted get in Their relationship that two in The terrestrial kingdom won’t?

Edited December 19, 2021 by Fether

[MustardSeed]

I don’t think the Lord is going to punish His righteous followers in that way.  IMO.  

Half my children have left the church.  I have excellent relationships with all of them.  Can I imagine the Lord punishing me for my kids having made choices that felt correct and best for them?  It makes no sense at all to me.  I decided not to fret on it and instead to love my family and trust God to do right by me and my family. 

[bsjkki]

22 minutes ago, Fether said:

what would you say about the notion that those who are not in the celestial kingdom are barred from seeing their family? And what specifically would two brothers who are exalted get in Their relationship that two in The terrestrial kingdom won’t?

On this board, it is debated whether there is progression between kingdoms. I figure free agency doesn’t just end and teaching and progression will continue. As @MustardSeedsaid above, I don’t think God will punish the righteous by separating them from their earthly offspring. I think we will have an active role in helping that progress. 
 

But, for these questions, their is only really one way to find out and I’m not ready for that. 😏 I think there are concepts our earthly brains are not able to understand. 

[bluebell]

33 minutes ago, bsjkki said:

But, for these questions, their is only really one way to find out and I’m not ready for that. 😏 I think there are concepts our earthly brains are not able to understand. 

I was thinking about this question at church today and it's the answer that I got as well--how it's all going to work up there isn't something that we can really understand yet.  So we use the language and understanding that we have and trust in the Lord for the rest.

[JLHPROF]

1 hour ago, Fether said:

what would you say about the notion that those who are not in the celestial kingdom are barred from seeing their family? And what specifically would two brothers who are exalted get in Their relationship that two in The terrestrial kingdom won’t?

I would say that is likely a misunderstanding.  I remain unconvinced that the kingdoms are geographical.

But I think many would prefer a geographic division to a caste system.

[JLHPROF]

37 minutes ago, bsjkki said:

On this board, it is debated whether there is progression between kingdoms. I figure free agency doesn’t just end and teaching and progression will continue. 

Progression is eternal.  We always progress or regress.  There is no standing still.

Determining the repurcussions of progressing eternally resolves a lot of these questions for me.

[rodheadlee]

I cannot quote any verses right now. But I believe from my study that members of the family that are in the Celestial Kingdom minister to members of the family that are in the Terrestrial Kingdom and members of the family that are in the Terrestrial Kingdom minister to members of the family that are in the Telestial kingdom. 

[CV75]

3 hours ago, Fether said:

what would you say about the notion that those who are not in the celestial kingdom are barred from seeing their family? And what specifically would two brothers who are exalted get in Their relationship that two in The terrestrial kingdom won’t?

Those who are not in the Celestial Kingdom cannot minister "upward" and rely on the order laid out in D&C 76. In addition, our relationships ("sociality") are coupled with a degree of glory, so relationships are only as mutually meaningful as the least or less-invested party. I think this is where the pain of being left out of the family or kingdom, or losing one's family, might come from: the sense that you cannot fully relate to a loved one with greater glory, while the one with greater glory can fully relate to the lesser on the terms he is able to receive (hence the different modes of ministration to lesser kingdoms). It is the same interpersonal dynamic we have in relating to (with) the Lord.

Including @JLHPROF, I think the idea of three separate physical locations comes from generations of incorporating a literal image from the Plan of Salvation diagram. But the image of one house with many mansions allows for one location (a sea of glass) where the white stone offers an advantage and access to the City / Temple and power to minister to others. 

[CV75]

4 hours ago, JLHPROF said:

Progression is eternal.  We always progress or regress.  There is no standing still.

Determining the repurcussions of progressing eternally resolves a lot of these questions for me.

In the resurrection and after Judgement, where grace has perfectly balanced justice and mercy, where in a lesser kingdom of glory are the opposition and probation that are essential for the expression of our willingness to receive more through the proper exercise of agency? If the opposition is our own nature, and the probation is to desire more than the justice and mercy balanced by grace accommodating our nature, the only option is to stay fixed in our nature and willingness. The fixed nature and willingness of exalted people is to progress without opposition as Christ and the Father do, having overcome all (D&C 132). The fixed nature of the rest is to progress with opposition, which is no longer present or functional in their kingdom, their kingdom being defined by how much they were willing to have Christ overcome in their behalf.

[Fether]

9 hours ago, JLHPROF said:

I would say that is likely a misunderstanding.  I remain unconvinced that the kingdoms are geographical.

But I think many would prefer a geographic division to a caste system.

I’ve always thought this way, I’m just wondering if there are any references to this concept.

[Freedom]

the term 'eternal' has two definitions in  our scriptures; one referring to the time, the other to our nature. Eternal punishment, for example, is to be interpreted as Godlike punishment. This is why there is a distinction between eternal life (living a godlike life) and immortality (living forever). The three degrees of glory are types or symbolic in nature. How would we determine the cut off between one or the other. How is it fair if one person who misses the celestial Kingdome due to one too many unrepented sin to be stuck with a scoundrel who's sinful nature is reprehensible because there are only three options in the eternities. The scriptures say that in my fathers kingdom there are many mansions. As such, I believe that our eternal destiny will be as diverse as there are people receiving them. So for this reason I cannot accept that we are all in different locations. Those who aspire to a greater glory are those who are willing to take on more responsibility. They will have access to greater opportunities, to greater information and to greater joy. But they will also be subject to greater sorrow, greater stress, and greater responsibilities. Not all celestial beings will have the same degree of commitment and determination, just as not all people become doctors, not all doctors become surgeons. Not all students become teachers, and not all teachers become scholars. 

there are two principles that we should understand. One is that the glory of God is intelligence, and the other that we are that we may have joy. in the next life we have all knowledge, therefore we will have all joy. We will have to set aside our petty differences, forgive all that has caused us consternation, and serve with the pure love of christ, this is what will make us an eternal family in my opinion. 

[Calm]

13 hours ago, Fether said:

So, from this entry, eternal families is about eternal increase between a husband and a wife, and has nothing to do with one’s ability to be around those we lived with on Earth?

 Not, imo, according to his first quote that including extended family in the eternal family relationship. 
 

Quote

It was Joseph Smith who taught me how to prize the endearing relationships of father and mother, husband and wife; of brother and sister, son and daughter

I think there is a very good reason we call each other Brother and Sister in the Church and that is it is reflective of our eternal relationship.  Why would only our relationships established since we were mortal count as eternal family and not our preeminent (imo) family we have been a part of since we were spirits at least?

[Calm]

12 hours ago, CV75 said:

think that inasmuch as someone is ministering to lesser kingdoms, eternal families can minister to loved ones in lesser kingdoms.

And given what ministering means to us these days, sounds like a relationship that can be as close as we choose it to be. 

[Fether]

6 hours ago, Calm said:

 Not, imo, according to his first quote that including extended family in the eternal family relationship. 
 

I think there is a very good reason we call each other Brother and Sister in the Church and that is it is reflective of our eternal relationship.  Why would only our relationships established since we were mortal count as eternal family and not our preeminent (imo) family we have been a part of since we were spirits at least?

So those who are not in the celestial kingdom will not be able to continue familial relationships?

[Calm]

8 minutes ago, Fether said:

So those who are not in the celestial kingdom will not be able to continue familial relationships?

Why wouldn’t they, are they not also part of God’s family?

[Fether]

3 hours ago, Calm said:

Why wouldn’t they, are they not also part of God’s family?

🤷🏻‍♂️ Idk… just trying to understand why we use the phrase “eternal family” for the celestial kingdom when everyone will be with their family for eternity.

[Calm]

11 minutes ago, Fether said:

🤷🏻‍♂️ Idk… just trying to understand why we use the phrase “eternal family” for the celestial kingdom when everyone will be with their family for eternity.

You appear to be thinking all or nothing, rather than the quality of the experience.  Those of the Celestial Kingdom will not just be family, but of one heart and mind with God and with others in the CK…whatever that means. I don’t think we are capable of imagining it.  We will be in a relationship with God relating to him in the same way he relates to us is my guess. Those of the other kingdoms, who have not chosen to surrender all their own will and align their hearts and minds with God completely, will not able to see God as clearly as he sees them and won’t know the depths of his mind or heart because they have not fully accepted them.  Quality of family of the CK is therefore imo much much more and rates being labeled eternal, meaning it is family life as God lives it, not the narrower versions of the other kingdom. 

[kimpearson]

On 12/19/2021 at 7:57 AM, Fether said:

“Eternal Families”

“Families can be together forever”

“family relationships to be perpetuated beyond the grave.”

What does all this mean? What does this actually look like? Do we have any sources that qualify this a little more beyond those phrases? What do we know and not know?

I have met MANY members (current and former alike) that understand it all to mean that if you don’t go to the celestial kingdom, you will be barred from seeing your family, but you can still hangout with everyone else in your respected kingdom. 
 

I have always taken the approach that we don’t really know what eternal family means beyond those few lines. I’ll sometimes point the Doctrine and Covenants 19 where it explains that the word “Eternal” simply means “belonging to God”, so “eternal family” is just “God’s family” that that not being an eternal family does not mean that God is going to bar you from those you were raised by, but rather, eternal family means to eternally live in an ever growing family setting… however the context of what is said and the feeling of the wording doesn’t always support that, but rather seems to support the cultural understanding many members have.

Does anyone have any insights on this? Any references to words of the prophets or scripture?

Here is one thought I have always had. 

D&C 76:112 And they shall be servants of the Most High; but where God and Christ dwell they cannot come, worlds without end.

What is everyone doing for eternity in the terrestrial and telestial Kingdoms?  The above verse tells us they are servants of the Most High.  This tells me that everyone in every kingdom is involved in God's work for eternity.  I believe the main difference between kingdoms is what you spend your time doing in the work.   To use an analogy, servants are everywhere in a palace serving in their roles but they never sit on the throne with a crown on their heads ruling the kingdom.   The Celestial Kingdom work is defined in the D&C as between a husband and wife and eternal increase.  I don't want to define what that means but I am pretty sure it doesn't wipe out all other earthly relationships.  I believe all our relationships will continue in the next life but many will choose different roles that will support husbands and wives who are taking care of the eternal creative process.   The belief about not having relationships in the telestial and terrestrial, I believe is a mistaken interpretation of scripture.