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Covid cases, hospitalizations, death trends and other touchy subjects…


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18 minutes ago, Calm said:

Calls to poison control may be up, but I believe hospital overcrowding is being driven by unvaccinated COVID patients, not by patients overdosing on ivermectin:

        https://reason.com/2021/09/06/ivermectin-overdoses-oklahoma-hospitals-rolling-stone-hoax/

 

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37 minutes ago, Calm said:

That article is a bit misleading.  While true that the calls increased 591 percent, an article on the Texas Health and Human Services website, shows that, of the increase of 159 calls, only 87 were related to people taking it for Covid.  In other words, of the 591% increase, 313% had nothing to do with Covid.  While we see that 87 people made a bad choice, in a State the size of Texas, that number is not really that big.  For the media, it appears it is better to not tell the whole story and instead put in the headline, in big bold letters, "591%"

Edited by T-Shirt
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32 minutes ago, T-Shirt said:

While true that the calls increased 591 percent, an article on the Texas Health and Human Services website, shows that, of the increase of 159 calls, only 87 were related to people taking it for Covid.  In other words, of the 591% increase, 313% had nothing to do with Covid.  While we see that 87 people made a bad choice, in a State the size of Texas, that number is not really that big.  For the media, it appears it is better to not tell the whole story and instead put in the headline, in big bold letters, "591%"

Can you provide a link please?

Did it give the reason people were suddenly taking so much more of the drug that wasn’t for Covid?  
 

I am wondering if some of the calls did not provide a reason they took the drug and they only reported the numbers of those who were willing to say. 

Edited by Calm
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20 minutes ago, Calm said:

Can you provide a link please?

Did it give the reason people were suddenly taking so much more of the drug that wasn’t for Covid?  

https://www.dshs.texas.gov/HealthAdvisory-20210826.aspx

In another article I read, I'll  have to track it down, it said that calls to poison control for ivermectin tend to increase this time of year because this is when a lot of ranchers treat their livestock for worms and people get accidently exposed during treatment.

Edited by T-Shirt
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39 minutes ago, T-Shirt said:

of the increase of 159 calls, only 87 were related to people taking it for Covid.  In other words, of the 591% increase, 313% had nothing to do with Covid. 

I think your math may be wrong since the website says over half were likely to be Covid related.  However, it did not give other reasons, so it is possible the others were unidentified and could be Covid related.

“More than half of the 2021 calls (87, 55%) were potential Ivermectin exposure taken in an attempt to treat or prevent COVID-19.”

 

Edited by Calm
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8 minutes ago, Calm said:

I think your math may be wrong since the website says over half were likely to be Covid related.  However, it did not give other reasons, so it is possible the others were unidentified and could be Covid related.

“More than half of the 2021 calls (87, 55%) were potential Ivermectin exposure taken in an attempt to treat or prevent COVID-19.”

 

My math is fine, but the wording could have been better.  In other words, there was an increase in calls of 313% for ivermectin exposure that were not Covid related.

Edited by T-Shirt
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1 minute ago, T-Shirt said:

My math is fine, but the wording could have been better.  In other words, there was an increase in calls of 313% for ivermectin exposure that were not Covid related.

Unless someone can offer a reason why so many others are suddenly taking the drug, a reason not provided by the link, I do not think it appropriate to discount the possibility that more of the increase is Covid related. But I applaud the Texas site for not speculating and the USA article should have been more careful. 

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 it said that calls to poison control for ivermectin tend to increase this time of year because this is when a lot of ranchers treat their livestock for worms and people get accidently exposed during treatment.

This would be included in past years though, correct? I am reading at a blood lab with brain fog, so I may be wrong, but I thought there was a comparison for the whole year. 
 

If I am wrong, that would make sense though. 

I can’t do the math due to brain fog, but what would that make the increase related to Covid? (The corresponding number to your 313%)

Edited by Calm
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9 minutes ago, Calm said:

Unless someone can offer a reason why so many others are suddenly taking the drug, a reason not provided by the link, I do not think it appropriate to discount the possibility that more of the increase is Covid related. But I applaud the Texas site for not speculating and the USA article should have been more careful. 

I gave you a potential reason.  I added it as an edit, so maybe you didn't see it.  A person doesn't have to be taking the drug to be exposed to it if using it for deworming livestock.  They can be accidently exposed in the process of treatment.  We don't get to see the stats for calls over several years, we only get a comparison to last year.  Maybe last year was a down year or maybe this year is a particularly bad year for parasites in livestock.  There is a lot of missing information.  The bottom line, however, is that the article in USA today was irresponsible and , in my opinion, intentionally deceptive.

Edited by T-Shirt
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10 minutes ago, Robert J Anderson said:

There are experts like Dr. Bret Weinstein who are using it as a prophylactic.  Why not have a big study on this and other possible remedies?  We did this for the vaccine and approved Pfizer's in record time.  Why not do the same thing for ivermectin or hydroxychloroquine or other repurposed drugs?

Weinstein is a quack and has been debunked over and over. He has no valid studies. None.  I would suggest you listen to this podcast.  It seems you could use it.

 

https://samharris.org/subscriber-extras/256-contagion-bad-ideas/

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5 minutes ago, T-Shirt said:

I gave you a potential reason.  I added it as an edit, so maybe you didn't see it.  A person doesn't have to be taking the drug to be exposed to it if using it for deworming livestock.  They can be accidently exposed in the process of treatment.  We don't get to see the stats for calls over several years, we only get a comparison to last year.  Maybe last year was a down year or maybe this year is a particularly bad year for parasites in livestock.  There is a lot of missing information.  The bottom line, however, is that the article in USA today was irresponsible and , in my opinion, intentionally deceptive.

Not surprising USA Today made a mistake on ivermectin, exaggerating the horsepaste narrative.  It seems to be part of the push against anything non-vaccine treatments for covid-19.

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2 hours ago, Teancum said:

Yes the vccine can if the other treatments have been tested as thoroughly and shown to be effective.  Which neither have.  But go drink horse dewormer if you want.

I was vaccinated, so, doesn't that give me some social credit, enough to talk about alternatives?  Or, is it total dedication to the vaccine team or banishment?  Also, you appear to be a little emotional about this as evidenced by your last sentence.  Why?  The vaccines don't stop the spread, don't prevent someone from getting it, just lessen the symptoms supposedly, except that may not be so true for delta and the other variants.  Anyway, why so emotional if I read you correctly?  Shouldn't we always be discussing and entertaining alternatives in these matters?

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10 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

I wish to high heaven that when the previous president went to town trying to get a vaccine for Covid and then they did, and I believe it was a blessing from God and the know with all from those that made it happen, that he'd at least support it's use along with the prevention by using masks, maybe we'd be living in a different world right now. He's coming around now and trying to mention it to the rallies but I fear it's too late, and the freedom fighters are going to fight to the end until one day we wake up with many, many more deaths.

Why make this political? Can the thread get worse? 

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3 minutes ago, bsjkki said:

Why make this political? Can the thread get worse? 

I tried to keep it positive, that the previous president tried to get some in the rallies to get the vaccines. But I will delete promptly.

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11 minutes ago, Teancum said:

Weinstein is a quack and has been debunked over and over. He has no valid studies. None.  I would suggest you listen to this podcast.  It seems you could use it.

 

https://samharris.org/subscriber-extras/256-contagion-bad-ideas/

Looks like you have to get a subscription.  Perhaps you could simply give some bullets on why Weinstein is a quack?  I know he was interviewed by Rogan, the horsepaste lover, and Dr. Malone, another supposed "quack," probably labeled as such due to not religiously following the narrative.  So, what does Mr. Harris say specifically about Dr. Weinstein?

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1 minute ago, smac97 said:

I wish the current president had not politicized and cast aspersions on the vaccine when he said "If and when the vaccine comes, it’s not likely to go through all the tests that need to be done, and the trials that are needed to be done." 

And this: "Look at what’s happened. Enormous pressure put on the CDC not to put out the detailed guidelines. The enormous pressure being put on the FDA to say they’re going, that the following protocol will in fact reduce, it will have a giant impact on COVID.  All these things turn out not to be true, and when a president continues to mislead and lie, when we finally do, God willing, get a vaccine, who’s going to take the shot? Who’s going to take the shot? You going to be the first one to say, ‘Put me — sign me up, they now say it’s OK’? I’m not being facetious." 

And this: "How are you going to distribute the vaccine when it arrives, when it arrives, when it’s there? And the question of whether it’s real, when it’s there, that requires enormous transparency. You’ve got to make all of it available to other experts across the nation, so they can look and see, so there’s consensus this is a safe vaccine. Because already you have, what percent is American people saying if the vaccine were there tomorrow, they wouldn’t take it? And it’s not the usual anti-vaccine crowd. It’s beyond that because people are losing faith in what the president says. Think about it."   

And this: "Charting a clear path of science-based vaccines, free from politics. I get asked the question: ‘If the president announced tomorrow we have a vaccine, would you take it?’ Only if it was completely transparent, that other experts in the country could look at it, only if we knew all of what went into it. Because so far, nothing he’s told us has been true." 

And this: "Americans have had to endure President Trump’s incompetence and dishonesty, when it comes to testing and personal protective equipment. We can’t afford to repeat those fiascos when it comes to a vaccine. … Let me be clear: I trust vaccines, I trust scientists, but I don’t trust Donald Trump, and at this moment, the American people can’t either. Last week, Senator Harris and I laid out three questions this administration’s going to have to answer to assure the American people that politics will not play a role whatsoever in the vaccine process. If Donald Trump can’t give answers and the administration can’t give answers to these three questions, the American people should not have confidence."

I also wish the current vice-president had not politicized the vaccine when she said "{I}f Donald Trump tells us that we should take it, I’m not taking it."

See here:

By way of comparison, here's a list of the ways Trump politicized things.

A pox on both their houses.

Thanks,

-Smac

I understand, but feel bad about the political nature of my post would you mind deleting?

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40 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

I wish to high heaven that when the previous president went to town trying to get a vaccine for Covid and then they did, and I believe it was a blessing from God and the know with all from those that made it happen, that he'd at least support it's use along with the prevention by using masks, maybe we'd be living in a different world right now. He's coming around now and trying to mention it to the rallies but I fear it's too late, and the freedom fighters are going to fight to the end until one day we wake up with many, many more deaths.

Trump is a divisive and toxic figure on these threads and probably best to avoid all things Trump.  What is done is done, lets look forward.  I don't think that Trump has ever been antivaccine though.  He received it himself and is unfortunately being booed for recommending it at his rallies, and his administration was largely responsible for operation warp speed.  It is a sticky place between wanting political credit for the vaccine and having a large chunk of your base venomously opposed to all things Covid vaccine. 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jemimamcevoy/2021/03/21/operation-warp-speed-head-says-trump-administration-responsible-for-90-of-vaccine-rollout/?sh=2a51a58c1848

Edited by pogi
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Just now, pogi said:

Trump is a divisive and toxic figure on these threads and probably best to avoid all things Trump.  What is done is done, lets look forward.  I don't think that Trump has ever been antivaccine though.  He received it himself and is unfortunately being booed for recommending it at his rallies, and his administration was largely responsible for operation warp speed.  

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jemimamcevoy/2021/03/21/operation-warp-speed-head-says-trump-administration-responsible-for-90-of-vaccine-rollout/?sh=2a51a58c1848

Yes, I know, you may have missed my saying this. But I deleted for fear this thread would be shut down.

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44 minutes ago, Calm said:

I can’t do the math due to brain fog, but what would that make the increase related to Covid?

Roughly 10% lower. But the actual percentages are kind of deceiving because the numbers are so small to begin with.

48 from last year to 159 this year is a big jump percentage wise, but it's not really much in terms of absolute change in a population of 29 million.

That doesn't mean we should ignore it obviously. I think it's good that we try to be aware of what's going on and do our best to nip misinformation in the bud.

But we shouldn't be overstating things either. If only 52 people have gone (or been referred) to a medical facility for an overdose in Texas this year, then it's wrong to characterize that as being the cause for hospital beds in Texas being overrun.

 

Edited by Amulek
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1 minute ago, Amulek said:

Roughly 10% lower.

Than what?

Sorry, bad bad brain fog today, having to read everything two or three times to make sense, so probably missing obvious stuff, but I still want to understand and appreciate you taking the time to answer. 
 

Found another article with some numbers and specifies ingestion for some of them, but not specifying it is for Covid. 
 

https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2021/09/04/1034217306/ivermectin-overdose-exposure-cases-poison-control-centers

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34 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

I understand, but feel bad about the political nature of my post would you mind deleting?

Done.  But you'll need to delete what you've quoted.

Thanks,

-Smac

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7 hours ago, SeekingUnderstanding said:

Yes vaccinated people are getting sick. Some are going to the hospital and some are even dying. The vaccines aren't preventing everyone from getting Delta, and as you say Mu is making an appearance. So as a vaccinated individual, I know I'm going to get Covid at some point. It doesn't matter how much I distance, mask, go in crowded places or not, at some point I will likely contract this disease. But here's the thing. That really isn't a problem. People get sick all the time. It's only a problem if our healthcare system can't handle the influx and vaccines reduce the burden on the health care system by orders of magnitude. 

So why is there is a problem right now? Our hospitals are full to overflowing. What is the source of this? People making the stupid choice not to vaccinate. As Jimmy Kimmel points out, people who have heart attacks are having trouble getting care. Why? Because people aren't vaccinated. Do they deserve to die? No. Jimmie didn't even say anything close to that. He said that if hospitals are full, and people are going to die because there isn't enough care to go around, he'd choose the people that chose to put themselves in that situtation.

Feel free to have the last word.   

No thanks. I’ll leave that to you.

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