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Covid cases, hospitalizations, death trends and other touchy subjects…


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5 minutes ago, Chum said:

I don't know what this means.

You made an assertion that vaccines themselves were responsible for a failure to reach herd immunity and not unvaccinated people. You posted an article that didn't support that at all. I asked for the specific text in that article that supported your assertion. You keep giving me everything but.

Actually, you read a lot into a simple statement that I never said. The mayo clinic article gave many reasons we will not reach herd immunity. But, a big reason it is more elusive is because of what we have learned about the vaccine.

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recap:

8 minutes ago, bsjkki said:

I was contextualizing what they can .. do.

 

7 minutes ago, Chum said:

Where did you do this?

 

5 minutes ago, bsjkki said:

By making a blanket statement of what they 'will not do.'

 

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2 minutes ago, Chum said:

You've contextualized some by prepending "These". That's a bit of progress. Awesome!

? This is a leaky vaccine and will not create herd immunity. This is irrefutable at this point. It's better for people to understand this than to think if we get 95 percent of people vaccinated, covid will go away. But, please get vaccinated because we know what the vaccine will do. It prevents hospitalization and death (most of the time.)

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2 minutes ago, bsjkki said:

But, a big reason it is more elusive is because of what we have learned about the vaccine.

This is also better than - We'll never reach herd immunity because vaccines are leaky.

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2 minutes ago, bsjkki said:

Do you understand that the vaccine does not prevent infection or transmission?

This is a delivery vehicle for the message that vaccines do not work.

I believe it goes with the point that @pogi keeps making. How you say this stuff matters.

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4 minutes ago, Chum said:

This is a delivery vehicle for the message that vaccines do not work.

I believe it goes with the point that @pogi keeps making. How you say this stuff matters.

Vaccines work at preventing hospitalization and death. This is a good thing. These vaccines will not create herd immunity. We don't know if natural immunity will create herd immunity. We don't know a lot yet.

I don't understand what you are saying in the 2nd line. Vaccines matter.

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9 minutes ago, Chum said:

@pogi keeps telling you that your language is indistinguishable from anti-vax propaganda.

The statement I said is true. I have not heard it from anti-vaxxers. I don't really see why that is relevant. Truth matters. What else is true. In the US, 75 percent of adults have had at least one vaccine shot.

image.png.83c82a499bc7383c807c9d825fc5cd62.png

Over 95% of counties are now experiencing high transmission rates. Here is a map. https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/571140-95-percent-of-us-counties-now-seeing-high-covid-19-transmission-rate-cdc  https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#county-view

image.thumb.png.6b69e82b5a02c8e89333b6e53d3aab98.png

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3 minutes ago, bsjkki said:

The statement I said is true. I have not heard it from anti-vaxxers. I don't really see why that is relevant. Truth matters.

Truth has no virtue on it's own. It does tremendous harm when wielded indiscriminately.

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2 minutes ago, Chum said:

Truth has no virtue on it's own. It does tremendous harm when wielded indiscriminately.

That is why I emphasize what the vaccine ‘does’ do. It is irresponsible to give reasons to do something that are no longer fact based. 

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10 hours ago, Tacenda said:

It would be nice to make the N95 masks better looking, people can be vain, me!

Well, that’s not insignificant. It is part of the human nature that studies usually ignore. Comfort and style matter to many people. I want something that won’t fog up my glasses and make my face sweat.  

Edited by Bernard Gui
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6 hours ago, pogi said:

It feels like every time I try to convince someone that masks work, this is where you or bernard join in the conversation against me, instead of opposing the guy claiming that masks don't work...at all, on any level, to reduce transmission.  

No, this is not true. Nope.

Edited by Bernard Gui
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7 hours ago, pogi said:

What I find very interesting is that those who have been antagonistic of masks and mandates from the very beginning are now hyper critical of those who wear imperfect masks, and criticize inconsistently executed mask mandates.  It is like you are all me on steroids, and it is kind of freaking me out! 

I can’t let this stand without correction since it is directed at me.

Just for the record, I have never been antagonistic towards masks or vaccines anywhere at any time unless questioning is considered an expression of antagonism.

Do let’s not start this up again, Bro Pogi.

Edited by Bernard Gui
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4 hours ago, bsjkki said:

We now know the vaccines do not prevent transmission or infection.

Even if vaccinated infected still transmit the disease as much as the vaccinated as it appears from studies so far, if the infection rate of the vaccination is low enough, this can still allow us to reach herd immunity levels. 
 

I don’t remember seeing infection rates prior to the article below for the vaccinated.  Do you have studies showing these?

This was published 6 days ago, so assuming up to date and hopefully accurate  

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/covid-breakthrough-infections-vaccine-rate-symptoms-study/#app

Quote

The U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, for instance, doesn't have good data on how many people catch COVID-19 after being vaccinated, as it decided in the spring to track only serious, symptomatic breakthrough cases. The British study, on the other hand, used mass-testing data to determine how many breakthrough cases there actually are and how sick those people get.

Quote

The data, gathered from December 8, 2020, through July 4, 2021, show that of more than 1.2 million adults who received a first dose, fewer than 0.5% reported contracting breakthrough infections two weeks or more after getting the jab. Among those who got both shots, fewer than 0.2% experienced a breakthrough infection a week or more after getting their second shot.

 

Edited by Calm
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3 hours ago, bsjkki said:

 It's better for people to understand this than to think if we get 95 percent of people vaccinated, covid will go away. .

Mutation of Covid is such that it will likely not go away completely and will remain endemic (hanging around…like the “flu”), but the pandemic—-the massive number of infections happening—could potentially be stopped if we can get enough vaccinations out globally…though given the state of the world this may not be realistic to expect. 
 

We might be able to remove the pandemic aspect from the US by high percentages of vaccination if the infection rate of the vaccinated and reinfection rate of the naturally immune (the two groups overlap as there are those who have had Covid and have been vaccinated) are low enough coupled with more effective masking and social distancing, but if a vaccine resistant mutation (most probably developing in areas with massive numbers of infections) takes root, that could move us way back in our efforts. 

Edited by Calm
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