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BYU Hawaii denied medical exemption


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15 minutes ago, Calm said:

Are you seeing anything from BYU yet?  So far I am seeing just her side. There might have been additional contact explaining details, BYUH might have even sent out something in general. 

I’ve read the Instagram post from the President. But, nothing about helping with scholarships. One student said they could do BYU I online. 
 

Other Hawaii schools announced vaccination requirements May 15th.

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Posted (edited)
40 minutes ago, Calm said:

I meant agreeing to an interview by anyone as opposed to sharing the info with friends on a public platform and that getting picked up and then answering a reporter’s questions who had contacted her to be polite.  I would feel the same way if she went on BBC which is my preferred news source. :)

This is what her mom said. Again. I’m sorry about the misinterpretation. 
 

 

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Edited by bsjkki
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1 hour ago, bsjkki said:

So talking with a reporter for print news is okay but not seeking the publicity?

If a reporter called and asked if they could ask a few question, myself I would be in a state of shock and just agree to answer them out of politeness.  However, an interview request would cause me to pause and look at it differently, give me time to think of it in different terms than whether or not I would be rude to say “no comment” and hang up. I am just projecting my own reactions onto the situation and thinking where the lines of passively responding and actively participating would fall. 
 

Added:  The interview could just appear as print and I would still feel it inappropriate…think of it as the difference between giving an immediate response and making an appointment to give a response and therefore having the time to think about implications of one’s actions. 
 

Does that make sense?  Pretty arbitrary, I know. :)

Edited by Calm
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1 hour ago, Raingirl said:

I would think anyone heading off to college this fall would be smart enough to assume that vaccines would be required, and have a back-up plan in place in case their request for an exemption wasn’t approved.  Especially so in a state that has been pretty firm about Covid restrictions. 

They aren’t at UVU according to my husband….which does not make me happy, but I would have been shocked.
 

But Hawaii is in a very different situation where travel to and from the state can’t exactly be in isolation so exposing others, including many international travelers who then might have to quarantine in government facilities (going by my brother’s description of Singapore and why they aren’t risking visiting the US yet).  Also Hawaii has a large vulnerable population too. My husband shared just now that a colleague who had taught at BYUH for 15 years said she finally left because there was no middle class. She, as a college professor, didn’t rate the wealthy upper class and she was viewed as an outsider by the lower class.  
 

They are smart to have higher restrictions. I have no clue what took BYUH so long to figure it out. 

Edited by Calm
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52 minutes ago, bsjkki said:

Again. I’m sorry about the misinterpretation

Don’t worry about that. I wasn’t clear and if I had thought about it, I should have realized it could be misread, especially since I am not fond of Fox (just don’t like the personalities I know of, there might be some less abrasive types I could like if I watched it).  Didn’t bother me in the least you went there. I likely would have too. 

Edited by Calm
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Hawaii is a unique place where control of disease is more important than individuals.    I do hope she finds a different college (including waiving normal issues), but I have to wonder how she will fair attending any college where much of the population isn't vaccinated.   Her safest bet would be to attend somewhere where most of the students are vaccinated.

Edited by rpn
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18 hours ago, Calm said:

$3000 plus fees, living expenses low since she can live at home.  I don’t know if they require vaccinations, will ask husband.  Doubt it.  All his students had Covid last year in one class, in another he had a nurse come in and gave extra credit for getting one.

Giving extra credit or asking students if they had the vaccine as part of the class probably violates hippa.

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8 minutes ago, Nofear said:

Giving extra credit or asking students if they had the vaccine as part of the class probably violates hippa.

HIPAA only pertains to the release of one’s medical information by a medical provider.  A person voluntarily providing their own information to someone has nothing to do with HIPAA. 

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20 minutes ago, Nofear said:

Giving extra credit or asking students if they had the vaccine as part of the class probably violates hippa.

It does not.

HIPAA is not nearly as comprehensive as some suggest it is. Someone can request medical information from someone and it does not violate HIPAA. It just means the person inquiring cannot go to the medical provider themselves and get that information without the patient signing off.

Here is an article meant to counter some of the misinformation out there:

https://www.hipaajournal.com/is-it-a-hipaa-violation-to-ask-for-proof-of-vaccine-status/

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2 hours ago, The Nehor said:

It does not.

HIPAA is not nearly as comprehensive as some suggest it is. Someone can request medical information from someone and it does not violate HIPAA. It just means the person inquiring cannot go to the medical provider themselves and get that information without the patient signing off.

Here is an article meant to counter some of the misinformation out there:

https://www.hipaajournal.com/is-it-a-hipaa-violation-to-ask-for-proof-of-vaccine-status/

Terrible article 

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3 hours ago, Nofear said:

Giving extra credit or asking students if they had the vaccine as part of the class probably violates hippa.

I don’t think he asked them if they had it but it along with whether they had covid was volunteered.  His class format isn’t typical, more real world lab than textbook.  Entrepreneurship is the subject and he has them work on creating their own businesses or helping others…which means a lot of conversation and the chance to get to know them on a personal level.  I hear about life stories that students have shared a lot as they discuss their reasons for being there and goals in life. Former students come up to him all time in stores and elsewhere and it is obvious they see him as a good friend and the reverse is true as well (one of the reasons I am happy in my choice of life partner is he sees students as individuals he is there to support).  
 

I was concerned myself about the possible issues not because of hippa but just crossing lines and inappropriate pressure, but he does lots of different things for extra credit to help students having difficulty, like giving credit for them doing “random acts of kindness”, so no one would feel that they were pressured because they needed the credit and that was the only or easiest way to get it.  He was simply making it easy for anyone thinking of getting it but were too busy or letting themselves get distracted. UVU is heavy in nontraditional students and his classes especially so.

Since the point of his classes is to help them be successes in their choices and not to weed out those not suited for the program or to just add to a collection of knowledge, it is a bit different class environment. It throws a lot of his younger students who are used to just reading textbooks and taking tests and maybe writing essays on occasion and he gets a lot of dropouts after the first class…but then many of his students have gone on to be very successful, millionaires even, so it does what it is intended to do for most. 
 

I will mention your concern though and suggest he might not want to do it again, but he has had students get sick and have problems because of being ill so he is concerned.

 

Edited by Calm
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5 hours ago, Nofear said:

Giving extra credit or asking students if they had the vaccine as part of the class probably violates hippa.

No it doesn't in any way violate HIPAA which applies only to those who maintain medical info. 

You can argue incentivizing the vaccine, but lots of governments and workplaces are legitimately seeking to do whatever it takes to persuade.

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15 hours ago, rpn said:

No it doesn't in any way violate HIPAA which applies only to those who maintain medical info. 

You can argue incentivizing the vaccine, but lots of governments and workplaces are legitimately seeking to do whatever it takes to persuade.

I misspoke. I recall being told by administration, "... are hearing that some faculty may be trying to offer extra credit to students to get vaccinated…or requiring students to demonstrate vaccination to come to class. Requiring students to provide any medical information cannot be done." I inserted the HIPPA part.  FERPA is a bit more strict. Doesn't apply to non-students though.

This is all more legal stuff than I care to wade through: https://studentprivacy.ed.gov/sites/default/files/resource_document/file/FERPA and Coronavirus Frequently Asked Questions.pdf

 

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28 minutes ago, Nofear said:

I misspoke. I recall being told by administration, "... are hearing that some faculty may be trying to offer extra credit to students to get vaccinated…or requiring students to demonstrate vaccination to come to class. Requiring students to provide any medical information cannot be done." I inserted the HIPPA part.  FERPA is a bit more strict. Doesn't apply to non-students though.

This is all more legal stuff than I care to wade through: https://studentprivacy.ed.gov/sites/default/files/resource_document/file/FERPA and Coronavirus Frequently Asked Questions.pdf

 

It’s HIPAA- Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act

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It looks like the doctor that signed her note is an Osteopath. That's a legit medical doctor, but "Osteopathy" has roots in pseudoscience similar to chiropractic and other "therapeutic touch" schools of thought.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9806345/Incoming-freshman-loses-scholarship-refusing-covid-vaccine-medical-conditions.html

And the doctor did post a link to a pro-hydroxychloroquine medical news conference last July. He linked to this video and said "Very good info":

https://www.bitchute.com/video/Brcm2OtyDVlO/

The group that sponsored the news conference is anti-vaxx:

https://americasfrontlinedoctors.org/

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26 minutes ago, cinepro said:

It looks like the doctor that signed her note is an Osteopath. That's a legit medical doctor, but "Osteopathy" has roots in pseudoscience similar to chiropractic and other "therapeutic touch" schools of thought.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9806345/Incoming-freshman-loses-scholarship-refusing-covid-vaccine-medical-conditions.html

And the doctor did post a link to a pro-hydroxychloroquine medical news conference last July. He linked to this video and said "Very good info":

https://www.bitchute.com/video/Brcm2OtyDVlO/

The group that sponsored the news conference is anti-vaxx:

https://americasfrontlinedoctors.org/

It does not surprise me.  You can pretty much get whatever you want with a little doctor shopping.  One Utah pharmacist just lost his license for giving out covid vaccine cards to people whom he sensed were apprehensive about the vaccine. 

Giving out bogus exemption forms is an equivalently egregious violation as the result is the same in both cases - someone that could and should be vaccinated is getting a fraudulent pass to not be vaccinated.   California is really cracking down on this big problem and doctors are getting put on probation by the medical board. 

https://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireStory/california-advances-crackdown-bogus-vaccine-exemptions-65370431

https://www.sacbee.com/opinion/editorials/article215404630.html

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/kids-health/some-doctors-helping-anti-vaccine-parents-get-medical-exemptions-n963011

There is also very little doubt in my mind that this student understood and knew that there are no contraindications or precautions to Covid vaccine with history of guillain barre before she went searching for an exemption.  What young gen-x student wouldn't google that before paying money to see a doctor?

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13 minutes ago, pogi said:

What young gen-x student wouldn't google that before paying money to see a doctor?

Maybe I am stuck in the 1990s.  My daughter (granted she was 12 and the habit seemed to be gone by her early 20s at least) avoided learning anything about diabetes initially. I still get surprised when she comes up with medical info now.  Wasn’t laziness, but fear/denial. 
 

She was hit with GBS in 2019, which means she was likely 16 or 17 at the time. And paralyzed from the waist down. Practically speaking that likely means a lot of time on the internet, reasonable to assume she is looking up medical info….unless she went the denial route. Otoh, most likely it was her parents who chose the doctor, wonder if it was after being frustrated with standard care or the fact it was a vaccine that triggered the GBS or if they were already into the alternative medical scene.  I am guessing it is one of the latter two since her syndrome appears to have resolved after a month…not really long enough to develop the usual desperation that takes one the alternative route. 

Edited by Calm
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2 hours ago, pogi said:

It does not surprise me.  You can pretty much get whatever you want with a little doctor shopping.  One Utah pharmacist just lost his license for giving out covid vaccine cards to people whom he sensed were apprehensive about the vaccine. 

Giving out bogus exemption forms is an equivalently egregious violation as the result is the same in both cases - someone that could and should be vaccinated is getting a fraudulent pass to not be vaccinated.   California is really cracking down on this big problem and doctors are getting put on probation by the medical board. 

https://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireStory/california-advances-crackdown-bogus-vaccine-exemptions-65370431

https://www.sacbee.com/opinion/editorials/article215404630.html

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/kids-health/some-doctors-helping-anti-vaccine-parents-get-medical-exemptions-n963011

There is also very little doubt in my mind that this student understood and knew that there are no contraindications or precautions to Covid vaccine with history of guillain barre before she went searching for an exemption.  What young gen-x student wouldn't google that before paying money to see a doctor?

Yeah, I still smell that rat. I think this was deliberate.

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7 hours ago, cinepro said:

It looks like the doctor that signed her note is an Osteopath. That's a legit medical doctor, but "Osteopathy" has roots in pseudoscience similar to chiropractic and other "therapeutic touch" schools of thought.
 

I think you mean that he’s a DO, and not an MD. Osteopath is a term that refers to practitioners (not medical doctors) outside the United States, or refers to DOs from a long time ago before allopathic (MD) and osteopathic (DO) pathways became parallel. Having a root in “pseudoscience” harkens back to a day (the 1800s and early 1900s) where all medicine, via presentism, was “pseudoscience.” The separation in osteopathic and allopathic training exists at the medical school level (though in parallel), but converges in all post-graduate training (i.e. training to become a surgeon, or a pediatrician, or a radiologist, or a psychiatrist) is all the same and integrated.

A similar deal was made about this when President Trump’s physician was a DO. It just so happened that President Biden’s physician is was a DO, too. 

Edited by Judd
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On 7/22/2021 at 11:01 AM, Nofear said:

I misspoke. I recall being told by administration, "... are hearing that some faculty may be trying to offer extra credit to students to get vaccinated…or requiring students to demonstrate vaccination to come to class. Requiring students to provide any medical information cannot be done." I inserted the HIPPA part.  FERPA is a bit more strict. Doesn't apply to non-students though.

FERPA merely prohibits educational institutions that accept federal funding (the only fed money church schools get are the direct on behalf of students as far as I know so it likely doesn't affect them)  from disclosing educational records (documents).   A student's vaccination status is unlikely to be deemed an educational record.

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