Happiness and grief

[Amulek]

1 hour ago, Meadowchik said:

I have attended services where the insistence on feeling happiness and gratitude now seemed to short-circuit the grieving.

I don't see any reason why you can't have both. I'm particularly a fan of the jazz funeral myself - though I'm quite confident my wife (who will likely outlive me) will not go for it.

 

[smac97]

24 minutes ago, Calm said:

I have to admit I find death rather sanitized in our American culture. 

Yep.  Consider this (from the Smithsonian Magazine) :

Quote

If you died 200 years ago in America, your family would wash and dress your body and place it in a bed surrounded by candles to dampen the smell of decomposition.

Your immediate family and friends would visit your house over the course of the next week, few needing to travel very far, paying their respects at your bedside. Before the body’s putrefaction advanced too far, the local carpenter would make a simple pine casket, and everyone would gather at the cemetery (or your own backyard, if you were a landowner) for a few words before returning you to the earth.

 

You would be interred without any preservative chemicals, without being cosmetized with touch-ups like skin dyes, mouth formers or eye caps. No headstone, flowers or any of the other items we relate to a modern funeral. In essence, your demise would be respectful but without pomp.

Things have changed pretty substantially since America’s early days as funeral rites have moved out of the house and into the funeral home.  How did we get here and how do American traditions compare with typical practices in other countries?

In doing research for “Memory Picture,” an interactive website I’m building that explains the pros and cons of our interment options, I’ve discovered many intriguing details about how we memorialize death. One of the most fascinating is how the founding of the modern funeral industry can essentially be traced back to President Abraham Lincoln and his embrace of embalming.

The simple home funeral described above was the standard since the founding of the Republic, but the U.S. Civil War upended this tradition.

During the war, most bodies were left where they fell, decomposing in fields and trenches all over the South, or rolled into mass graves. Some wealthy northern families were willing to pay to have the bodies of deceased soldiers returned to them. But before the invention of refrigeration, this often became a mess, as the heat and humidity would cause the body to decompose in a matter of a couple of days.

Updating an ancient preservation technique to solve this problem led to a seismic change in how we mourn the dead in America. Ancient Egyptian embalmings removed all internal organs and blood, leaving the body cavity to be filled with natural materials.

In 1838, the Frenchman Jean Gannal published “Histoire des Embaumements,” describing a process that kept the body more or less intact but replaced the body’s blood with a preservative – a technique now known as “arterial embalming.” The book was translated into English in 1840 and quickly became popular in America.

I would like to see a return to more modest burials.  We now have photographs and videos and all sorts of interconnectedness, so not as much of a need to do preserve the remains.  Embalming is both an expensive and ecologically harmful procedure.

Thanks,

-Smac

Edited June 29, 2021 by smac97

[Bob Crockett]

7 minutes ago, smac97 said:

Yep.  Consider this (from the Smithsonian Magazine) :

I would like to see a return to more modest burials.  We now have photographs and videos and all sorts of interconnectedness, so not as much of a need to do preserve the remains.  Embalming is both an expensive and ecologically harmful procedure.

Thanks,

-Smac

I certainly agree.  In California coffins now have to be sealed in an additional vault to avoid groundwater issues.  But, religious scuples remain.

[smac97]

26 minutes ago, Bob Crockett said:

I certainly agree.  In California coffins now have to be sealed in an additional vault to avoid groundwater issues.  But, religious scuples remain.

I just checked the revised Handbook and am happy to see that the former guidance (per my recollection) that discouraged cremation and preferred burial has been removed.  See here:

Quote

38.7.2

Burial and Cremation

The family of the deceased person decides whether his or her body should be buried or cremated. They respect the desires of the individual.

In some countries, the law requires cremation. In other cases, burial is not practical or affordable for the family. In all cases, the body should be treated with respect and reverence. Members should be reassured that the power of the Resurrection always applies (see Alma 11:42–45).

Where possible, the body of a deceased member who has been endowed should be dressed in ceremonial temple clothing when it is buried or cremated (see 38.5.8).

A funeral or memorial service provides an opportunity for families to gather and perpetuate family relations and values (see 29.5.4).

I'm not that big a fan of the funeral industry.  It, like the wedding industry, has imposed substantial and unnecessary financial and other costs on an already stressful event.

Thanks,

-Smac

[pogi]

14 minutes ago, smac97 said:

I just checked the revised Handbook and am happy to see that the former guidance (per my recollection) that discouraged cremation and preferred burial has been removed.  See here:

I'm not that big a fan of the funeral industry.  It, like the wedding industry, has imposed substantial and unnecessary financial and other costs on an already stressful event.

Thanks,

-Smac

That is fantastic news about the change in the handbook on cremation.  Your recollection aligns with mine, by the way. 

[Calm]

30 minutes ago, smac97 said:

I just checked the revised Handbook and am happy to see that the former guidance (per my recollection) that discouraged cremation and preferred burial has been removed.  See here:

I'm not that big a fan of the funeral industry.  It, like the wedding industry, has imposed substantial and unnecessary financial and other costs on an already stressful event.

Thanks,

-Smac

Cremation isn’t exactly ‘green’ though if one is choosing it for that reason. Besides the fuel used, there are the toxins released into the air. And apparently best to mix ashes to avoid too high of ph if burying them.  
 

Everything has to be so complicated, even dying. 

[smac97]

3 minutes ago, Calm said:

Cremation isn’t exactly ‘green’ though if one is choosing it for that reason. Besides the fuel used, there are the toxins released into the air. And apparently best to mix ashes to avoid too high of ph if burying them.  
 

Everything has to be so complicated, even dying. 

This video presents a number of alternatives to embalming and cremation:

Thanks,

-Smac

[JAHS]

41 minutes ago, pogi said:

49 minutes ago, smac97 said:

I just checked the revised Handbook and am happy to see that the former guidance (per my recollection) that discouraged cremation and preferred burial has been removed.  See here:

I'm not that big a fan of the funeral industry.  It, like the wedding industry, has imposed substantial and unnecessary financial and other costs on an already stressful event.

Thanks,

-Smac

That is fantastic news about the change in the handbook on cremation.  Your recollection aligns with mine, by the way. 

Here's what it said in the 2005 handbook:
"Normally, cremation is not encouraged. However, in some countries the law requires it. The family of the deceased must decide whether to cremate the body, taking into account any laws governing burial or cremation. Where possible, the body of a deceased member who has been endowed should be dressed in temple clothing when the body is cremated. A funeral service may be held."

So it didn't say discouraged, it only said not encouraged. Is that the same thing? Maybe an earlier version said it differently.

[Meadowchik]

1 hour ago, Amulek said:

I don't see any reason why you can't have both. I'm particularly a fan of the jazz funeral myself - though I'm quite confident my wife (who will likely outlive me) will not go for it.

 

There's no problem with feeling both. In fact there's no problem with whatever someone is feeling when loss occurs. It's the pressure to feel or emote a certain way that can be counterproductive, I think.

[Meadowchik]

2 hours ago, Calm said:

In the American culture, perhaps…if by serious grieving you mean observable physical emotional behaviour.  I think talking about the person publicly at a funeral or with friends and family can be part of serious grieving as well. Crying noiselessly but perfectly able to respond if anyone talks to you seems to be the ideal emotions response if out in public if media is to believed. 
 

I have to admit I find death rather sanitized in our American culture. Even with the process of dressing the dead in the subculture of our church, it feels like people are trying to protect the grievers from reality in my experience. I don’t usually look at the dead at viewings as I am a visual person and I don’t want that to become my dominant image, but in the case of my mom, I wanted to dress Mom as a way to say goodbye because she had received no physical contact from family for at least 7 months before she died due to Covid only allowing conversations through windows.  But what it amounted to was simply placing the temple robes on her as the funeral home went ahead and did all her actual clothing.  I was disappointed, but understood they were assuming I wanted a beautiful moment rather than a struggle when to me it was about sacrificing for her one last time and the struggle would have helped cement that sense.

I'm so sorry that dressing your mother didn't go how you wanted, also so sorry for your loss especially at a time when it is so terribly complicated.

[Calm]

1 hour ago, Meadowchik said:

I'm so sorry that dressing your mother didn't go how you wanted, also so sorry for your loss especially at a time when it is so terribly complicated.

It turned into a different than expected, but lovely experience with a niece and my sister-in-law so I feel good about the result even if not what I planned.  The loss occurred for me years ago as she had dementia and I never could reconcile the person I was caring for with my mother to be honest. I did cry when she died, but it was for what we had hoped our last years together were going to be and were not and not for her death as she was very ready to go and life was about to get very hard for her as she was losing control of her positive attitude towards life and experiencing fear. 

Edited June 29, 2021 by Calm

[LoudmouthMormon]

Back in the '90's, my mom died after a long degenerative battle with MS.  She absolutely loathed her body and what it was doing to her, and the prospect of the horrible thing being burned into ashes lifted her spirits.  Grandma thought it was against church teaching, but there were enough folks in the family with access to the handbook, they were able to sit her down and explain it to her.

Recent news: https://people.com/human-interest/human-composting-a-new-end-of-life-choice-turns-bodies-into-soil/

It started with Washington state.  

Quote

This spring, Colorado and Oregon have followed suit with laws legalizing composting human remains, and bills look likely to pass later this year in New York and California. 

I think I'm a fan.

Edited June 29, 2021 by LoudmouthMormon

[The Nehor]

Just an fyi.

Cremation does mean blasting the body with extreme heat and then pulverizing the skeletal remains, basically crushing the now brittle skeleton into tiny pieces. I am not trying to discourage anyone but that last bit is often left out of the funeral home brochure and might offend the sensibilities of some who see cremation as 'cleaner' or more respectful.

 

[LoudmouthMormon]

20 hours ago, The Nehor said:

Just an fyi.

Cremation does mean blasting the body with extreme heat and then pulverizing the skeletal remains, basically crushing the now brittle skeleton into tiny pieces. 

Oh, "chemical cremation" is also a thing.   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alkaline_hydrolysis_(body_disposal)

Looking through the details for what happens to our bodies after they die, no matter what sort of disposal is chosen, can be a difficult thing.  I hope folks understand that talking about this stuff isn't meant to take away from the solemn topic of the thread.  I've buried both parents, and gone through this painful process twice.  The 2nd time was a lot easier.  I've become a fan of the composting option, but at the end of the day, I want my funeral arrangements to be what is best for the folks still alive who care about me.  

[The Nehor]

9 minutes ago, LoudmouthMormon said:

Oh, "chemical cremation" is also a thing.   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alkaline_hydrolysis_(body_disposal)

Looking through the details for what happens to our bodies after they die, no matter what sort of disposal is chosen, can be a difficult thing.  I hope folks understand that talking about this stuff isn't meant to take away from the solemn topic of the thread.  I've buried both parents, and gone through this painful process twice.  The 2nd time was a lot easier.  I've become a fan of the composting option, but at the end of the day, I want my funeral arrangements to be what is best for the folks still alive who care about me.  

They’re all nasty.