longview Posted May 22, 2021 Posted May 22, 2021 (edited) 8 hours ago, The Nehor said: It is worth noting that the Hadith this is from is considered to be the equivalent of apocryphal. In other words not all Muslims believe it. So don’t ask a Muslim about 72 virgins. They will either not understand what you are talking about or they will because they know about this understanding and might roll their eyes and walk away. "In Arabic, shahid means “witness,” just as martyr means “witness” in Greek. A martyr is one who bears witness to the truth of his faith — in Christianity by dying for it, and in Islam by killing and dying for it, in accord with the Qur’an’s promise of Paradise to those who “kill and are killed” for Allah (9:111). "What this cleric is saying is not “extremist”; nor is he espousing the inventions of “Islamophobes,” as some have charged about the 72 virgins. What Nofal says here comes from a hadith of Tirmidhi: “The martyr has six unique traits: he is forgiven immediately; he sees his seat in Paradise and he is saved from the punishment of the grave; he is granted safety from the great terror [of the Day of Judgment]; a crown of honor is placed upon his head, a ruby of which is better than this life and all it contains; he is married to 72 maidens of Paradise; and he is allowed to intercede for 70 relatives.” Muslim cleric: One who kills and is killed for Allah “is married to 72 virgins of Paradise” “On Hamas TV, Gaza Judge Omar Nofal Extolls the Six Virtues of Martyrdom, Says: Jihad in Palestine Is an Individual Duty Incumbent upon All Muslims,” MEMRI, July 22, 2018 (thanks to Ken): Interviewed by Hamas’ Al-Aqsa TV channel, Sheikh Omar Nofal, a judge in Gaza’s Shari’a appeals court extolled the six virtues of martyrdom, asking: “How can anyone cling to this world after hearing all of these great rewards?” Nofal said that Jihad is “an individual duty incumbent upon the entire nation.” The interview aired on July 22. Following are excerpts: Sheikh Omar Nofal: The martyr gets six rewards. First, he is absolved with the first drop of his blood. The moment the martyr’s blood is shed, all his sins are absolved by Allah. […] When he is martyred, he sees his seat in Paradise, and he is dressed in the clothes of faith. He is a unique and special person, different from the rest of the people, by the grace of Allah. In addition, he is married to 72 virgins of Paradise. This is means that he is granted, in Paradise, some of the things he wished for in life, but they are magnified to a degree that the human mind cannot comprehend. In addition, he is crowned with the crown of honor. The beads, or the links, in the crown of honor, are better than the whole world and all that is in it. […] The martyr can vouch for 70 of his relatives. The martyr can intercede on behalf of his entire family. When he hears about… Host: And he is married to 72…… The highest level of martyrdom is when a person purifies his intentions, sets out to fight for the sake of Allah and to sacrifice his life and his property, and is killed while facing the fight, not while in retreat. This is the highest level of martyrdom for the sake of Allah. [..] Regarding the situation in Palestine I say that Jihad is an individual duty incumbent upon the entire nation. Nobody is allowed to forsake this jihad…." - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - “And fair women with large eyes, the likenesses of pearls well-protected, as reward for what they used to do.” (Qur’an 56:22-24) What does one have to do to get them? The Qur’an offers one guarantee of Paradise: to those who “kill and are killed” for Allah (9:111). For some young men, this can be a powerful recruitment tool for jihad. Edited May 22, 2021 by longview
The Nehor Posted May 23, 2021 Posted May 23, 2021 On 5/22/2021 at 10:52 AM, longview said: "In Arabic, shahid means “witness,” just as martyr means “witness” in Greek. A martyr is one who bears witness to the truth of his faith — in Christianity by dying for it, and in Islam by killing and dying for it, in accord with the Qur’an’s promise of Paradise to those who “kill and are killed” for Allah (9:111). "What this cleric is saying is not “extremist”; nor is he espousing the inventions of “Islamophobes,” as some have charged about the 72 virgins. What Nofal says here comes from a hadith of Tirmidhi: “The martyr has six unique traits: he is forgiven immediately; he sees his seat in Paradise and he is saved from the punishment of the grave; he is granted safety from the great terror [of the Day of Judgment]; a crown of honor is placed upon his head, a ruby of which is better than this life and all it contains; he is married to 72 maidens of Paradise; and he is allowed to intercede for 70 relatives.” Muslim cleric: One who kills and is killed for Allah “is married to 72 virgins of Paradise” “On Hamas TV, Gaza Judge Omar Nofal Extolls the Six Virtues of Martyrdom, Says: Jihad in Palestine Is an Individual Duty Incumbent upon All Muslims,” MEMRI, July 22, 2018 (thanks to Ken): Interviewed by Hamas’ Al-Aqsa TV channel, Sheikh Omar Nofal, a judge in Gaza’s Shari’a appeals court extolled the six virtues of martyrdom, asking: “How can anyone cling to this world after hearing all of these great rewards?” Nofal said that Jihad is “an individual duty incumbent upon the entire nation.” The interview aired on July 22. Following are excerpts: Sheikh Omar Nofal: The martyr gets six rewards. First, he is absolved with the first drop of his blood. The moment the martyr’s blood is shed, all his sins are absolved by Allah. […] When he is martyred, he sees his seat in Paradise, and he is dressed in the clothes of faith. He is a unique and special person, different from the rest of the people, by the grace of Allah. In addition, he is married to 72 virgins of Paradise. This is means that he is granted, in Paradise, some of the things he wished for in life, but they are magnified to a degree that the human mind cannot comprehend. In addition, he is crowned with the crown of honor. The beads, or the links, in the crown of honor, are better than the whole world and all that is in it. […] The martyr can vouch for 70 of his relatives. The martyr can intercede on behalf of his entire family. When he hears about… Host: And he is married to 72…… The highest level of martyrdom is when a person purifies his intentions, sets out to fight for the sake of Allah and to sacrifice his life and his property, and is killed while facing the fight, not while in retreat. This is the highest level of martyrdom for the sake of Allah. [..] Regarding the situation in Palestine I say that Jihad is an individual duty incumbent upon the entire nation. Nobody is allowed to forsake this jihad…." - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - “And fair women with large eyes, the likenesses of pearls well-protected, as reward for what they used to do.” (Qur’an 56:22-24) What does one have to do to get them? The Qur’an offers one guarantee of Paradise: to those who “kill and are killed” for Allah (9:111). For some young men, this can be a powerful recruitment tool for jihad. I suspect that the greater incentive to fight in Israel/Palestine is living as a captive population without citizenship and basic rights like freedom to travel but also having nowhere else to go. It is not a coincidence that the most violent passages extolling violence in the Old Testament involve the people being surrounded by hostile nations. Our own lesser flirtations with violent rhetoric occurred when we were driven across the States and into the wilderness and they still sent an army after us. Suggesting Islam must be inherently violent because people who live with and under the specter of violence emphasize the portions of their religion that reference conflict is silly. When some Jews can and do use the Torah to suggest genocide (because there are commands to commit genocide) tutting about Islam seems like a less than holistic approach.
longview Posted May 23, 2021 Posted May 23, 2021 (edited) 17 minutes ago, The Nehor said: I suspect that the greater incentive to fight in Israel/Palestine is living as a captive population without citizenship and basic rights like freedom to travel but also having nowhere else to go. Gaza and the West Bank are NOT captive. They are free to mingle with other Arab nations. The entire Middle East is pretty much Arabic. The nation states (such as Egypt, Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, etc) were artificially created by the "colonial" powers out of the defeated Ottoman Empire. Some Gazans are allowed to commute daily into Israel for their jobs. Palestinian residents within Israel have citizenship and are able to vote their representatives in the Knesset just the same as Jewish residents. ETA: Back when Yasser Arafat was in charge, Israel was willing to give Palestinians a state of their own but Yasser turned it down because he did not want to end the conflict with Israel and worldwide Jewry. Edited May 23, 2021 by longview 1
The Nehor Posted May 23, 2021 Posted May 23, 2021 10 minutes ago, longview said: Gaza and the West Bank are NOT captive. They are free to mingle with other Arab nations. The entire Middle East is pretty much Arabic. The nation states (such as Egypt, Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, etc) were artificially created by the "colonial" powers out of the defeated Ottoman Empire. Some Gazans are allowed to commute daily into Israel for their jobs. Palestinian residents within Israel have citizenship and are able to vote their representatives in the Knesset just the same as Jewish residents. ETA: Back when Yasser Arafat was in charge, Israel was willing to give Palestinians a state of their own but Yasser turned it down because he did not want to end the conflict with Israel and worldwide Jewry. No, they’re not. The surrounding nations do not want them. The nation-states were betrayed by the West when they agreed to fight the Ottomans and were promised freedom. The British changed their mind after the war. After the Second World War the British chopped out a bunch of badly designed nations with almost arbitrary borders. “Some” are “allowed” to commute daily if their services are needed. Wow! What freedom! Would you be happy with that kind of condescending treatment and call it freedom? Some within Israel who were in the original Israel occupied zones do have citizenship. There is no general path to citizenship for those in the ‘occupied’ areas. That was the proposed deal between Arafat and Barak right? At the time the press and commentators spun it as Barak giving up almost everything and Arafat budging on nothing, particularly the Israel lobby in the US. Later notes and reports from people at Camp David clarified the situation. Clinton was exasperated with Barak who kept shifting positions and refused to be pinned down on anything. Arafat didn’t want a state with no real sovereignty so the proposal was probably dead from the start. The talks still continued but towards the end it was clear that Barak and his party were on the way out so an agreement that would be opposed by the incoming administration wasn’t trusted and the diplomats gave up.
Tacenda Posted May 24, 2021 Posted May 24, 2021 I know this may not be the subject that this thread is currently discussing, but hoping I can place it here. I listened to a wonderful podcast this morning about a heavenly mother and am in love with the idea for girls and boys to have books about Her. After listening I googled and asked what religions believe in a heavenly mother and it appeared to me that Mormons are the only ones that believe in a Mother God. This got me excited about the church again. I truly love the fact that the LDS have such expanse vs. other religions that are cut and dry, vs. the LDS church which evolves and what has been said before, is still in the process of restoration. Could mother in heaven come out of the closet more and more in our faith? Could it even be a missionary tool? Could the thought of her change how women are looked at in societies that believe that women are second class? The podcast was on Mormon Land podcast: https://www.sltrib.com/podcasts/mormonland/ How to teach kids about Heavenly Mother and why it matters | Episode 180 In recent years, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has more fully embraced its teachings about Heavenly Mother, but she has been a part of the faith since virtually the beginning.She has long been celebrated in song and verse, but now members and leaders have begun to openly discuss her and debate her qualities.Two Latter-day Saint women, McArthur Krishna and Bethany Brady Spalding, have written a handful of children’s books about women in scriptures — poets, priestesses and prophets as well as judges and generals — but their most recent works are about Heavenly Mother herself.On this week’s show, Krishna and Spalding discuss their two latest books, “A Girl’s Guide to Heavenly Mother” and “A Boy’s Guide to Heavenly Mother.” I searched for it on Deseret Book because I thought I heard them say that's who published it, but I heard wrong, sadly. So I found the books at the website below. https://dstreetpress.myshopify.com/products/a-girls-guide-to-heavenly-mother
darrenskywalker Posted June 8, 2021 Posted June 8, 2021 It's quite possible imo, that we were literally born with a spiritual body from parents. A body that was tangible that we lost before coming to earth to gain a temporal body. Brings meaning to the war in Heaven and how a resurrected being would have a physical eternal spiritual offspring. I don't know for sure but I oscillate one this idea and others ideas and thoughts personally. This idea does correlate with Hugh Nibley saying that Satan wasn't kicked out of Heaven for having a disagreement , he was kicked out for resorting to violence
rpn Posted July 15, 2021 Posted July 15, 2021 On 5/21/2021 at 9:21 AM, Nofear said: And with trillions of children, that would basically mean one would still spend their time in a a near continuous state of pregnancy. I'm not a woman, but gosh, now I'm jealous. Who wouldn't want to be gravid in perpetuum? I just do not see anyway that celestially formed spirits can be done through the way mortal babies are born. Both parents would have resurrected mortal bodies, so they couldn't have "spirit children". Jesus was born to a mortal mother so he would be both mortal and have the capacity given by his immortal Father. 1
Nofear Posted July 16, 2021 Posted July 16, 2021 16 hours ago, rpn said: I just do not see anyway that celestially formed spirits can be done through the way mortal babies are born. Both parents would have resurrected mortal bodies, so they couldn't have "spirit children". Jesus was born to a mortal mother so he would be both mortal and have the capacity given by his immortal Father. Agreed. And as I pointed out in the other thread, this difference in reproduction may well be such that it would be jarring to our all-too-sensitive-and-unimaginative mortal perspectives. Consequently, we've been told exactly nothing about it. 1
Esrom Posted July 19, 2021 Posted July 19, 2021 On 5/24/2021 at 9:16 AM, Tacenda said: I know this may not be the subject that this thread is currently discussing, but hoping I can place it here. I listened to a wonderful podcast this morning about a heavenly mother and am in love with the idea for girls and boys to have books about Her. After listening I googled and asked what religions believe in a heavenly mother and it appeared to me that Mormons are the only ones that believe in a Mother God. This got me excited about the church again. I truly love the fact that the LDS have such expanse vs. other religions that are cut and dry, vs. the LDS church which evolves and what has been said before, is still in the process of restoration. Could mother in heaven come out of the closet more and more in our faith? Could it even be a missionary tool? Could the thought of her change how women are looked at in societies that believe that women are second class? The podcast was on Mormon Land podcast: https://www.sltrib.com/podcasts/mormonland/ How to teach kids about Heavenly Mother and why it matters | Episode 180 In recent years, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has more fully embraced its teachings about Heavenly Mother, but she has been a part of the faith since virtually the beginning.She has long been celebrated in song and verse, but now members and leaders have begun to openly discuss her and debate her qualities.Two Latter-day Saint women, McArthur Krishna and Bethany Brady Spalding, have written a handful of children’s books about women in scriptures — poets, priestesses and prophets as well as judges and generals — but their most recent works are about Heavenly Mother herself.On this week’s show, Krishna and Spalding discuss their two latest books, “A Girl’s Guide to Heavenly Mother” and “A Boy’s Guide to Heavenly Mother.” I searched for it on Deseret Book because I thought I heard them say that's who published it, but I heard wrong, sadly. So I found the books at the website below. https://dstreetpress.myshopify.com/products/a-girls-guide-to-heavenly-mother Christian Science believes God has equal male and female essence, in a non-physical sense, but it occurred to me that this could approximate the divine oneness of male/female partnership. In Jewish Kabbalah, the Creator is described as having a feminine component, the Shekinah, which is often described as Light. Some Christians view Shekinah as the glory of God or Holy Spirit. Interestingly, none of these divine feminine concepts are ever criticized as severely as the Latter-day Saint idea of physical male and female dieties.
bOObOO Posted July 20, 2021 Posted July 20, 2021 On 7/15/2021 at 2:29 PM, rpn said: I just do not see anyway that celestially formed spirits can be done through the way mortal babies are born. Both parents would have resurrected mortal bodies, so they couldn't have "spirit children". Jesus was born to a mortal mother so he would be both mortal and have the capacity given by his immortal Father. I'm still processing the idea that each of us is 2 people or 2 bodies combined into 1, and in more ways than only one. We each have an immortal father and mother, and a mortal father and mother, from whom we each got our own immortal and mortal bodies. Many of us walking around on this planet don't think of themselves in that way, with some people thinking they only have a mortal body and only a mortal father and mother, but others of us do know we are a combination of both mortal and immortal. Immortal parents have immortal offspring, and mortal parents have mortal offspring, and it takes both to make people like us who are both mortal and immortal.
Warlock Posted July 21, 2021 Posted July 21, 2021 22 hours ago, bOObOO said: I'm still processing the idea that each of us is 2 people or 2 bodies combined into 1, and in more ways than only one. We each have an immortal father and mother, and a mortal father and mother, from whom we each got our own immortal and mortal bodies. Many of us walking around on this planet don't think of themselves in that way, with some people thinking they only have a mortal body and only a mortal father and mother, but others of us do know we are a combination of both mortal and immortal. Immortal parents have immortal offspring, and mortal parents have mortal offspring, and it takes both to make people like us who are both mortal and immortal. Wonderfully said
bOObOO Posted July 21, 2021 Posted July 21, 2021 2 minutes ago, Warlock said: Wonderfully said Hmm. It appears to me that you are now my first fan on this board. Maybe when I get older I can be Yogi and you can be bOObOO. With both of us smarter than the average bears.
Warlock Posted July 21, 2021 Posted July 21, 2021 Just now, bOObOO said: Hmm. It appears to me that you are now my first fan on this board. Maybe when I get older I can be Yogi and you can be bOObOO. With both of us smarter than the average bears. I'm already a Warlock, can be whatever I desire
bOObOO Posted July 21, 2021 Posted July 21, 2021 4 minutes ago, Warlock said: I'm already a Warlock, can be whatever I desire Okay, but I think you'll have to wait until I become Yogi because we do not want more than one bOObOO on this board at one time.
Warlock Posted July 21, 2021 Posted July 21, 2021 2 minutes ago, bOObOO said: Okay, but I think you'll have to wait until I become Yogi because we do not want more than one bOObOO on this board at one time. Hey there, bOObOO!
pogi Posted July 21, 2021 Posted July 21, 2021 (edited) ...Oh, this is all too much! Edited July 21, 2021 by pogi
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