ttribe Posted June 18, 2021 Posted June 18, 2021 2 minutes ago, jkwilliams said: Indeed. I've been shunned by some people, too. Not fun. I go to the same grocery store I've been going to for 15 years and have people I've known for that same amount of time see me and immediately turn the other way. It's reached the point now where it's a bit amusing, but initially it was really shocking.
jkwilliams Posted June 18, 2021 Posted June 18, 2021 3 minutes ago, ttribe said: I go to the same grocery store I've been going to for 15 years and have people I've known for that same amount of time see me and immediately turn the other way. It's reached the point now where it's a bit amusing, but initially it was really shocking. Now, that's just pathetic. I guess I'm fortunate that I was living in Texas when I made the conscious decision to follow Satan. It was only a big deal with people from church, whom I only saw at church. Mostly, I was ignored, but some people did an occasional garment feel-up. Made me feel special. 🤣 1
ttribe Posted June 18, 2021 Posted June 18, 2021 Just now, jkwilliams said: Now, that's just pathetic. I guess I'm fortunate that I was living in Texas when I made the conscious decision to follow Satan. It was only a big deal with people from church, whom I only saw at church. Mostly, I was ignored, but some people did an occasional garment feel-up. Made me feel special. 🤣 Yeah, well I live in an area with a pretty significant LDS population.
jkwilliams Posted June 18, 2021 Posted June 18, 2021 Just now, ttribe said: Yeah, well I live in an area with a pretty significant LDS population. I know. Makes me glad I don't. The interesting thing about living in Texas was that once they knew I'd left, nonmembers told me what they really thought about the church. It was pretty shocking to me.
ttribe Posted June 18, 2021 Posted June 18, 2021 Just now, jkwilliams said: I know. Makes me glad I don't. The interesting thing about living in Texas was that once they knew I'd left, nonmembers told me what they really thought about the church. It was pretty shocking to me. Yep. I get a lot of additional disclosure from people when they discover I'm ex-LDS.
jkwilliams Posted June 18, 2021 Posted June 18, 2021 Just now, ttribe said: Yep. I get a lot of additional disclosure from people when they discover I'm ex-LDS. Here in Ohio, no one asks, and I certainly don't volunteer it. I don't know about you, but I do not enjoy rehashing the whole thing. As far as anyone knows, the only reason I was in Utah was that I was working at Hill AFB.
ttribe Posted June 18, 2021 Posted June 18, 2021 1 minute ago, jkwilliams said: Here in Ohio, no one asks, and I certainly don't volunteer it. I don't know about you, but I do not enjoy rehashing the whole thing. As far as anyone knows, the only reason I was in Utah was that I was working at Hill AFB. Well, in the expert witness business I have to submit my educational background (amongst other things) to the court for recognition as an expert. Having one of my degrees from BYU tends to be a 99.9% dead give away.
jkwilliams Posted June 18, 2021 Posted June 18, 2021 Just now, ttribe said: Well, in the expert witness business I have to submit my educational background (amongst other things) to the court for recognition as an expert. Having one of my degrees from BYU tends to be a 99.9% dead give away. Yeah, that's about the only time it comes up: when people review my resume.
bluebell Posted June 18, 2021 Author Posted June 18, 2021 2 hours ago, Tacenda said: Keep being you! I have the best memories of raising my kids in the church. 😁
bluebell Posted June 18, 2021 Author Posted June 18, 2021 2 hours ago, ttribe said: Talk to me when you've experienced being ignored and actively avoided in public places by people you've known for 15 years. That's my experience and I'm hardly alone. I’ve actually had that experience with one friend of mine who left the church. I agree it sucks! 3
Popular Post bsjkki Posted June 18, 2021 Popular Post Posted June 18, 2021 2 hours ago, jkwilliams said: I don't know anyone who thinks their loved ones are deluded "sheeple." I do. I know lots of people who think that. Have you read ex-mo reddit? 6
jkwilliams Posted June 18, 2021 Posted June 18, 2021 Just now, bsjkki said: I do. I know lots of people who think that. Have you read ex-mo reddit? No, I haven't. I'm sure there are some nasty characters out there, just as there are some in the church.
Popular Post bsjkki Posted June 18, 2021 Popular Post Posted June 18, 2021 Just now, jkwilliams said: No, I haven't. I'm sure there are some nasty characters out there, just as there are some in the church. Well, I don't encourage you peruse but just take my word for it. People mock their parents, grandparents, friends...you name it. 5
jkwilliams Posted June 18, 2021 Posted June 18, 2021 Just now, bsjkki said: Well, I don't encourage you peruse but just take my word for it. People mock their parents, grandparents, friends...you name it. No doubt. I've been on the receiving end of similar treatment from members. Thankfully, they are a small minority.
bsjkki Posted June 18, 2021 Posted June 18, 2021 4 minutes ago, jkwilliams said: No doubt. I've been on the receiving end of similar treatment from members. Thankfully, they are a small minority. Sometimes, a gentle reminder that respecting differing beliefs goes both ways has helped. 3
jkwilliams Posted June 18, 2021 Posted June 18, 2021 Just now, bsjkki said: Sometimes, a gentle reminder that respecting differing beliefs goes both ways has helped. Yep. That's what's worked in my marriage and with my kids.
Rain Posted June 18, 2021 Posted June 18, 2021 2 hours ago, ttribe said: I go to the same grocery store I've been going to for 15 years and have people I've known for that same amount of time see me and immediately turn the other way. It's reached the point now where it's a bit amusing, but initially it was really shocking. This is the oddest thing to me. I just cannot imagine ever doing this. I'm not doubting it. It's just such a weird action to take. But then if you live near me I have seen/heard some pretty odd actions since moving here. 1
Tacenda Posted June 18, 2021 Posted June 18, 2021 20 hours ago, jkwilliams said: As I've learned about some of the things my kids experienced in the church, I have very mixed feelings about having raised them in the church. Well, it may have been one-sided, now my kids aren't that active. I loved certain aspects of the church, all the volunteer ops it gave me and even the kids. And the community. But mostly my sons just have fond memories of scout camps. I love the good old times when the church had more activities and weren't so into keeping it simple like now in everyone's busy lives.
Tacenda Posted June 18, 2021 Posted June 18, 2021 17 hours ago, Rain said: This is the oddest thing to me. I just cannot imagine ever doing this. I'm not doubting it. It's just such a weird action to take. But then if you live near me I have seen/heard some pretty odd actions since moving here. I wonder if it's a Utah thing, I have the same situation with my life right now in a new neighborhood where I'm not active and most know it. Have you heard from members that have lived here? They say the same thing about LDS people in Utah. But maybe ttribe isn't even in Utah.
Rain Posted June 18, 2021 Posted June 18, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Tacenda said: I wonder if it's a Utah thing, I have the same situation with my life right now in a new neighborhood where I'm not active and most know it. Have you heard from members that have lived here? They say the same thing about LDS people in Utah. But maybe ttribe isn't even in Utah. I have actually never heard from members living in Utah or elsewhere of they themselves doing it. Ever. I have been accused of not letting my children play with other children who were not members (wasn't true and I specifically taught my children to play with those who are not members). So I think that often with all of the problems blamed on Utah there is a two way street and if you have heard the other side of the story you would find that the church members were truly not like that (I bet if you asked your bishop he was tell you honestly that he does not want to be rid of you). I do believe that it does happen. People are stupid sometimes. Do people actually purposely shun ttribe? Maybe. Maybe they just don't know how to deal with it and after 15 years they don't know how to change. Either way, purposely or not, it is still hurtful to him and should be stopped. Edit: added "purposely". No, ttribe lives somewhat near me though I don't know how close. It's like no place I've ever lived before. Or sort of like Utah on big time steroids. Edit: also want to share that I don't mean to shed doubt on ttribe's experience. I just don't know the other side of the story so I can't judge for myself whether they were doing it purposefully or not. That it happened, purposefully or not I don't question. @ttribe I'm sorry if I gave the impression that I doubted it happened. Edited June 18, 2021 by Rain 3
Popular Post cinepro Posted June 19, 2021 Popular Post Posted June 19, 2021 On 6/17/2021 at 2:12 PM, Fair Dinkum said: Pres. Nelson pre-supposes that when one works hard but still doesn't achieve an increase in faith one must be a lazy learners cuz only the lazy learners struggle to muster even a particle of faith. Again, you clearly misread what Nelson said. He explicitly says there are (at least) two types of people who struggle with faith: 1. Lazy learners 2. Lax disciples It's right there in the quote that you're posting. Why do you think people are hyper fixated on the "lazy learner" category, and totally ignoring the "lax disciple" category? To be clear, I don't necessarily agree with this or anything else Nelson says. I'm just mystified by the energy with which some exMos are promoting a false narrative about what he actually said. I mean, you're actually posting the quote (which is far more than most people dare do), and saying he said one thing when the quote clearly says something else. I'll also toss out there that I've read the CES Letter, and while I don't begrudge anyone from leaving because they've learned the things taught in the CES Letter, I would suggest the degree to which the CES Letter formed the foundation of knowledge that led someone out of the Church would also indicate the degree to which they are a lazy learner. 11
The Nehor Posted June 19, 2021 Posted June 19, 2021 4 hours ago, cinepro said: Again, you clearly misread what Nelson said. He explicitly says there are (at least) two types of people who struggle with faith: 1. Lazy learners 2. Lax disciples It's right there in the quote that you're posting. Why do you think people are hyper fixated on the "lazy learner" category, and totally ignoring the "lax disciple" category? To be clear, I don't necessarily agree with this or anything else Nelson says. I'm just mystified by the energy with which some exMos are promoting a false narrative about what he actually said. I mean, you're actually posting the quote (which is far more than most people dare do), and saying he said one thing when the quote clearly says something else. I'll also toss out there that I've read the CES Letter, and while I don't begrudge anyone from leaving because they've learned the things taught in the CES Letter, I would suggest the degree to which the CES Letter formed the foundation of knowledge that led someone out of the Church would also indicate the degree to which they are a lazy learner. Well played.
Tacenda Posted June 19, 2021 Posted June 19, 2021 On 6/16/2021 at 5:47 PM, bluebell said: But that's just it. We are talking about a random internet meme because none of the quotes on there are attributed or cited. We can't prove that they were ever said. Are we? First, I don't personally remember any prophet but Nelson talking about the length of the restoration. I'm not saying that the other prophets didn't--and I agree it's a reasonable thing for them to have said--but I don't have any memory of it being a big topic before Nelson. I tried to look them up and could not find them anywhere. Since you are the one who says they are familiar to you, maybe you can find them. And if you don't want to spend time researching something that's fine. But why are you trying to imply that everyone else should be spending time researching it when you don't want to? Seems.....weird. I don't know if this will matter, but saw this where it mentions that the church isn't fully restored until animal sacrifice in the temple will happen as a part of the final restoration of the church. I'm sure this wouldn't sit well with many but it wasn't posted that long ago in the Church News. Thing that most bothers me is that Christ put away animal sacrifice when He was the sacrifice so this is a problem to me. https://www.thechurchnews.com/archives/1993-01-30/law-of-sacrifice-143185?fbclid=IwAR28EoWzAPQIgLCqhRF04eaZKtguqtn6IdZBrUuJahZxw2BCV_1Y5-gIeqA
The Nehor Posted June 19, 2021 Posted June 19, 2021 35 minutes ago, Tacenda said: I don't know if this will matter, but saw this where it mentions that the church isn't fully restored until animal sacrifice in the temple will happen as a part of the final restoration of the church. I'm sure this wouldn't sit well with many but it wasn't posted that long ago in the Church News. Thing that most bothers me is that Christ put away animal sacrifice when He was the sacrifice so this is a problem to me. https://www.thechurchnews.com/archives/1993-01-30/law-of-sacrifice-143185?fbclid=IwAR28EoWzAPQIgLCqhRF04eaZKtguqtn6IdZBrUuJahZxw2BCV_1Y5-gIeqA Joseph Smith said that while the myriad sacrifices of the Law of Moses are done away with and will not come back the burnt offering sacrifice that was done pre-Law of Moses belongs to the gospel. He stated that it must be restored as part of the dispensation of the fullness of times to complete the restoration of all Priesthood ordinances and gospel principles from all dispensations. He posited there would be a few or even just one animal sacrifice to ensure that this ordinance is restored. It has been suggested that this is what John the Baptist was talking about when he said the Priesthood of Aaron would not be taken from the Earth until the Sons of Levi do again offer up a righteous sacrifice. This suggests it probably will not impact most members (unless your patriarchal blessing names you as a Levite) and that it will possibly be a late pre-millennial or even millennial event that ends the existence of the separate Aaronic Prieshood as all Priesthood is again one. The Priesthood we call Melchizedek. This leaves one to wonder what other principles need to be restored. We already got plural marriage out of the way. Something from Enoch? Physical translation? Some ordinance of Zion? Something lost from the dispensations of Adam, Noah, or Abraham? 3
bluebell Posted June 19, 2021 Author Posted June 19, 2021 1 hour ago, Tacenda said: I don't know if this will matter, but saw this where it mentions that the church isn't fully restored until animal sacrifice in the temple will happen as a part of the final restoration of the church. I'm sure this wouldn't sit well with many but it wasn't posted that long ago in the Church News. Thing that most bothers me is that Christ put away animal sacrifice when He was the sacrifice so this is a problem to me. https://www.thechurchnews.com/archives/1993-01-30/law-of-sacrifice-143185?fbclid=IwAR28EoWzAPQIgLCqhRF04eaZKtguqtn6IdZBrUuJahZxw2BCV_1Y5-gIeqA That’s interesting. Thanks for sharing.
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