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Forbes magazine 2021 survey on "The US States People Are Fleeing And The Ones They Are Moving To," https://www3.forbes.com/leadership/the-us-states-people-are-fleeing-and-the-ones-they-are-moving-to-version-3-vue/?utm_campaign=fleeing-and-the-ones-they-are-moving-to-version-3-vue&utm_source=Yahoo-gemini&utm_medium=yh156979n0us471&lcid=yh156979n0us471&utm_content=AT%26T_MAIL_US&utm_term=currently.att.yahoo.com

Population: 3,101,800
Median Household Income: $68,731
Job Growth: 3.2%

Utah occupied the top spot in Forbes’ Best States for Business six times in seven years between 2010 and 2016 (Virginia in 2013 was the lone outlier), but fell to third in 2017 due to rising business costs and a softer economic outlook. The state has a very pro-business climate and companies benefit from energy costs that are 16% below the national average, according to Moody’s Analytics. Utah’s employment has expanded 3.3% a year over the past five years—second best in the U.S. Utah is well known for its winter activities and tourism has soared since the 2002 Winter Olympics. With two-thirds of Utahns being members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, Utah is the most religiously homogeneous state in the U.S.

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9 hours ago, Robert F. Smith said:

Forbes magazine 2021 survey on "The US States People Are Fleeing And The Ones They Are Moving To," https://www3.forbes.com/leadership/the-us-states-people-are-fleeing-and-the-ones-they-are-moving-to-version-3-vue/?utm_campaign=fleeing-and-the-ones-they-are-moving-to-version-3-vue&utm_source=Yahoo-gemini&utm_medium=yh156979n0us471&lcid=yh156979n0us471&utm_content=AT%26T_MAIL_US&utm_term=currently.att.yahoo.com

Population: 3,101,800
Median Household Income: $68,731
Job Growth: 3.2%

Utah occupied the top spot in Forbes’ Best States for Business six times in seven years between 2010 and 2016 (Virginia in 2013 was the lone outlier), but fell to third in 2017 due to rising business costs and a softer economic outlook. The state has a very pro-business climate and companies benefit from energy costs that are 16% below the national average, according to Moody’s Analytics. Utah’s employment has expanded 3.3% a year over the past five years—second best in the U.S. Utah is well known for its winter activities and tourism has soared since the 2002 Winter Olympics. With two-thirds of Utahns being members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, Utah is the most religiously homogeneous state in the U.S.

The future is in Africa anyway! 😁

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21 hours ago, Robert F. Smith said:

Forbes magazine 2021 survey on "The US States People Are Fleeing And The Ones They Are Moving To," https://www3.forbes.com/leadership/the-us-states-people-are-fleeing-and-the-ones-they-are-moving-to-version-3-vue/?utm_campaign=fleeing-and-the-ones-they-are-moving-to-version-3-vue&utm_source=Yahoo-gemini&utm_medium=yh156979n0us471&lcid=yh156979n0us471&utm_content=AT%26T_MAIL_US&utm_term=currently.att.yahoo.com

Population: 3,101,800
Median Household Income: $68,731
Job Growth: 3.2%

Utah occupied the top spot in Forbes’ Best States for Business six times in seven years between 2010 and 2016 (Virginia in 2013 was the lone outlier), but fell to third in 2017 due to rising business costs and a softer economic outlook. The state has a very pro-business climate and companies benefit from energy costs that are 16% below the national average, according to Moody’s Analytics. Utah’s employment has expanded 3.3% a year over the past five years—second best in the U.S. Utah is well known for its winter activities and tourism has soared since the 2002 Winter Olympics. With two-thirds of Utahns being members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, Utah is the most religiously homogeneous state in the U.S.

I'm curious is they'll end up like Denver, Seattle and other states transplants have been fleeing to for a while now.  When people start not being able to afford rent/end up homeless besides crime you usually see people get in who aren't exactly conservative and business friendly.  I've heard from LDS friends moving back, more and more non LDS keep moving in.  Will be interesting to see what will happen if the Utah natives start being out voted with the number of people moving there.  It happened here.

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10 minutes ago, poptart said:

I'm curious is they'll end up like Denver, Seattle and other states transplants have been fleeing to for a while now.  When people start not being able to afford rent/end up homeless besides crime you usually see people get in who aren't exactly conservative and business friendly.  I've heard from LDS friends moving back, more and more non LDS keep moving in.  Will be interesting to see what will happen if the Utah natives start being out voted with the number of people moving there.  It happened here.

Salt Lake County and the St George area have certainly seen a burgeoning of non-LDS immigrants.  However, a lot of LDS members have been moving to Utah as well.  I moved to Utah County from California, and so did half my California ward.  Getting away from high crime areas, and finding plenty of housing and jobs have been powerful incentives.  Also, the LDS birthrate continues to outpace others, so Utah probably won't see LDS members get outnumbered.

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50 minutes ago, Robert F. Smith said:

Salt Lake County and the St George area have certainly seen a burgeoning of non-LDS immigrants.  However, a lot of LDS members have been moving to Utah as well.  I moved to Utah County from California, and so did half my California ward.  Getting away from high crime areas, and finding plenty of housing and jobs have been powerful incentives.  Also, the LDS birthrate continues to outpace others, so Utah probably won't see LDS members get outnumbered.

Here's the thing, as more of the hipster types move in, more will follow.  It's what happened to Seattle/Tacoma and here Denver/Boulder, tons of single types moved in a while ago for the legal weed then the tech jobs/everything else.  Families have been pouring into the surrounding suburbs, now it doesn't matter they're outvoted.  

Even with the booming numbers it'll become a lot more expensive as time goes on, had someone here share how difficult it is for people there to afford homes now.  BTW, same thing happened in Texas.  How i've seen it play out is once you start getting non locals, over the years they just pour in.  Take Seattle and now Denver/Boulder, it's a total IT hub.  Once you get a lot of those types they do tend to vote in certain blocks.  Not saying Utah won't be outnumbered, just saying as times goes on you're going to feel the squeeze, I think.  Considering you guys did have some chaos last year and with the social media shaming going on, well, time will tell.  Media didn't talk about it, downtown was pretty crazy.  Considering how the elections last year were, it's a sign of what to expect.  I'm not thrilled about it either, I'm not happy about the cultural changes taking place, I'm more of a live and let live guy but that's just not how it is in most places now.  I take nothing for granted esp. with the way things are going, that's just me anyway.

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29 minutes ago, poptart said:

Here's the thing, as more of the hipster types move in, more will follow.  It's what happened to Seattle/Tacoma and here Denver/Boulder, tons of single types moved in a while ago for the legal weed then the tech jobs/everything else.  Families have been pouring into the surrounding suburbs, now it doesn't matter they're outvoted.  

Even with the booming numbers it'll become a lot more expensive as time goes on, had someone here share how difficult it is for people there to afford homes now.  BTW, same thing happened in Texas.  How i've seen it play out is once you start getting non locals, over the years they just pour in.  Take Seattle and now Denver/Boulder, it's a total IT hub.  Once you get a lot of those types they do tend to vote in certain blocks.  Not saying Utah won't be outnumbered, just saying as times goes on you're going to feel the squeeze, I think.  Considering you guys did have some chaos last year and with the social media shaming going on, well, time will tell.  Media didn't talk about it, downtown was pretty crazy.  Considering how the elections last year were, it's a sign of what to expect.  I'm not thrilled about it either, I'm not happy about the cultural changes taking place, I'm more of a live and let live guy but that's just not how it is in most places now.  I take nothing for granted esp. with the way things are going, that's just me anyway.

Idaho is getting hit pretty hard too, especially Boise area.

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6 hours ago, poptart said:

Here's the thing, as more of the hipster types move in, more will follow.  It's what happened to Seattle/Tacoma and here Denver/Boulder, tons of single types moved in a while ago for the legal weed then the tech jobs/everything else.  Families have been pouring into the surrounding suburbs, now it doesn't matter they're outvoted.  

Even with the booming numbers it'll become a lot more expensive as time goes on, had someone here share how difficult it is for people there to afford homes now.  BTW, same thing happened in Texas.  How i've seen it play out is once you start getting non locals, over the years they just pour in.  Take Seattle and now Denver/Boulder, it's a total IT hub.  Once you get a lot of those types they do tend to vote in certain blocks.  Not saying Utah won't be outnumbered, just saying as times goes on you're going to feel the squeeze, I think.  Considering you guys did have some chaos last year and with the social media shaming going on, well, time will tell.  Media didn't talk about it, downtown was pretty crazy.  Considering how the elections last year were, it's a sign of what to expect.  I'm not thrilled about it either, I'm not happy about the cultural changes taking place, I'm more of a live and let live guy but that's just not how it is in most places now.  I take nothing for granted esp. with the way things are going, that's just me anyway.

Yeh, a lot of that is true.  But it might be good for Utah to get a better sociopolitical balance.  Being a one-party state is actually not healthy.  On the other hand, the LDS mission in Utah is highly productive.  All those newcomers are vulnerable to the LDS invitation to convert -- I know of several convert baptisms in the past year in my small circle of acquaintances..

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8 hours ago, poptart said:

Here's the thing, as more of the hipster types move in, more will follow.  It's what happened to Seattle/Tacoma and here Denver/Boulder, tons of single types moved in a while ago for the legal weed then the tech jobs/everything else.  Families have been pouring into the surrounding suburbs, now it doesn't matter they're outvoted.  

Even with the booming numbers it'll become a lot more expensive as time goes on, had someone here share how difficult it is for people there to afford homes now.  BTW, same thing happened in Texas.  How i've seen it play out is once you start getting non locals, over the years they just pour in.  Take Seattle and now Denver/Boulder, it's a total IT hub.  Once you get a lot of those types they do tend to vote in certain blocks.  Not saying Utah won't be outnumbered, just saying as times goes on you're going to feel the squeeze, I think.  Considering you guys did have some chaos last year and with the social media shaming going on, well, time will tell.  Media didn't talk about it, downtown was pretty crazy.  Considering how the elections last year were, it's a sign of what to expect.  I'm not thrilled about it either, I'm not happy about the cultural changes taking place, I'm more of a live and let live guy but that's just not how it is in most places now.  I take nothing for granted esp. with the way things are going, that's just me anyway.

Smuggling should shoot up if they pass that cell phones must have pornography blocker thing they were talking about. Then the people smuggling in weed from Colorado can also smuggle in cell phones.

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5 hours ago, The Nehor said:

Smuggling should shoot up if they pass that cell phones must have pornography blocker thing they were talking about. Then the people smuggling in weed from Colorado can also smuggle in cell phones.

This is something I need to look into, I don't understand what you're saying here. 

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10 hours ago, Robert F. Smith said:

Yeh, a lot of that is true.  But it might be good for Utah to get a better sociopolitical balance.  Being a one-party state is actually not healthy.  On the other hand, the LDS mission in Utah is highly productive.  All those newcomers are vulnerable to the LDS invitation to convert -- I know of several convert baptisms in the past year in my small circle of acquaintances..

I would prefer that other sociopolitical views such as those dominant in Seattle and California not move into Utah.
I'd rather not see Utah become the mess they've made on the coast.

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28 minutes ago, JLHPROF said:

I would prefer that other sociopolitical views such as those dominant in Seattle and California not move into Utah.
I'd rather not see Utah become the mess they've made on the coast.

That gave me a chuckle, and you are so right.  However, we ought to be kind to the fleeing refugees.  8)

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5 hours ago, Tacenda said:

This is something I need to look into, I don't understand what you're saying here. 

Utah state government is trying to pass a bill mandating that cell phones sold in the state must have the ability to block pornography. It is likely to pass but it is not likely to work.

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6 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

Utah state government is trying to pass a bill mandating that cell phones sold in the state must have the ability to block pornography. It is likely to pass but it is not likely to work.

I'd like that to be used for my grandchildren. 

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12 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

Utah state government is trying to pass a bill mandating that cell phones sold in the state must have the ability to block pornography. It is likely to pass but it is not likely to work.

That would be some trick.

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3 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

I'd like that to be used for my grandchildren. 

I am not saying it wouldn’t be a good thing. It is just impractical to mandate on a state level. My suspicion is the legislation was a result of lobbying by some software company that has created software that explicitly meet the requirements (because they designed the requirements). I expect a lot of cell phone stores to vanish and everyone to buy off of Amazon or online. Big manufacturers won’t kowtow to the law and will just stop selling rather than be coerced to work with the software developer. 

I might be wrong but that is my cynical suspicion.

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15 hours ago, Robert F. Smith said:

Yeh, a lot of that is true.  But it might be good for Utah to get a better sociopolitical balance.  Being a one-party state is actually not healthy.  On the other hand, the LDS mission in Utah is highly productive.  All those newcomers are vulnerable to the LDS invitation to convert -- I know of several convert baptisms in the past year in my small circle of acquaintances..

I know a few people who'd disagree, at least on this point, so long as those differing opinions are from people in good church standing and aren't too different from their privileged WASP selves, no problem.  You're right about the LDS mission in Utah, i've heard they still are the most productive.  I would however wonder about the convert baptisms you know of, what's their background?  Are they married?  WASP-ish?  Middle-upper middle class?  Like you politically?  See, this is why I brought up areas like Denver/Boulder and Seattle, it attracts the single, more liberal crowd who tends to despise religion here stateside.  Like it or not, Christianity in many flavors has done a fantastic job of running people off and making them hate their guts to where the default attitude is hatred and voting against them at the polls.  It's one reason why you see community segregation in places, the tech bros live in the trendy places and the families elsewhere.  Most conservative religious types stay out as well, besides  hating them they tend to be treated poorly.  It's sad, I know not all of them are bad but after how religious people and their followers have acted for a while now, well, here we are and there it is.  

That being said, this could absolutely be a time for the LDS church to stand out from them all, you have things a lot of families here move all over the place from.  Stable communities (relatively) wholesome programs, far more welcoming wards, fantastic charities (DI is awesome, they put everyone else i've ever seen here to shame) plus the emphasis on clean living.  Problem a lot of families here face, unless they come from large families or have extended communities themselves, they are on their own, that's a very expensive place to be as a parent.  There's a reason why I still associate with friends from my old Buddhist temple, they're far, far more supportive than most churches/Christians i've met here, at least that's been my experience.  We have people who are half black/half Japanese who've been shunned by privileged, racist whites here for things beyond their own control.  Even me, white as can be had to deal with the one drop rule.  I've heard similar things from people, that's sad, that's unfortunate etc.  Thing is, privilege, racism and entitlement are still big issues as we've seen as of late with the attacks against Asian-Americans.  Even Among Asians i know who are Christian, their own communities are fantastic.  You guys have a shot to prove to the rest of the country and the world that those who assume the Christian mantle aren't a bunch of entitled, hypocritical racists, considering your Utah mission is multi-ethnic, you're already off to a good start.  Far as I can tell, outside of say the Catholic Church, no one else really cares.

3 hours ago, Tacenda said:

I'd like that to be used for my grandchildren. 

Lol good luck enforcing that.  Also if by some miracle they managed to make it happen, it'll make technology more expensive, at least I'd think it would be a great excuse to charge people in Utah more for electronics.  People look for any excuse they can to charge more for things, that sounds like a great excuse right there.  

As someone who had a poor childhood, here's a question, why can't parents do this?  My mom watched my brothers and myself pretty much on her own.  Same with my Asian friends, their parents watch their kids like a hawk.  Same with their communities (church, sports etc.) Not trying to be mean or anything, I genuinely am curious, mom and I talk about it.  Why is it some people here think it's societies job to watch out for them and their children?  Is personal responsibility no longer a value here?

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36 minutes ago, poptart said:

would however wonder about the convert baptisms you know of, what's their background?  Are they married?  WASP-ish?  Middle-upper middle class?  Like you politically?

My son went to the Ogden mission. He taught and baptized a variety of investigators, including one established family, but also young couples, military people, immigrants.  If I get a chance I will ask him for more details.  This was almost 20 years ago though, so demographics might be changing. 

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3 minutes ago, Calm said:

My son went to the Ogden mission. He taught and baptized a variety of investigators, including one established family, but also young couples, military people, immigrants.  If I get a chance I will ask him for more details.  This was almost 20 years ago though, so demographics might be changing. 

I would be curious about that.  If it's Utah, not surprised, like I said earlier the LDS church is known for having access to things the non privileged tend to have a very hard time getting, especially nowadays.  My first GF was Japanese and a member, liked how they had different wards for people.

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2 hours ago, poptart said:

 

Lol good luck enforcing that.  Also if by some miracle they managed to make it happen, it'll make technology more expensive, at least I'd think it would be a great excuse to charge people in Utah more for electronics.  People look for any excuse they can to charge more for things, that sounds like a great excuse right there.  

As someone who had a poor childhood, here's a question, why can't parents do this?  My mom watched my brothers and myself pretty much on her own.  Same with my Asian friends, their parents watch their kids like a hawk.  Same with their communities (church, sports etc.) Not trying to be mean or anything, I genuinely am curious, mom and I talk about it.  Why is it some people here think it's societies job to watch out for them and their children?  Is personal responsibility no longer a value here?

Good point, it's just that stuff can pop up. But my grandsons have grown up more street wise and my daughter isn't really a helicopter parent, far from it, so I'm sure they've seen plenty. Sometimes I wonder if the kids that get hooked on porn are the ones that are super sheltered and get it drilled in their heads not to look at porn. My grandsons have had their own phones for a while. The youngest is in 4th grade. So that's why I piped up. And who's to stop them from seeing it on their friends phone. I really haven't researched it much, the block on phones.

 

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On 3/20/2021 at 10:39 PM, Robert F. Smith said:

Forbes magazine 2021 survey on "The US States People Are Fleeing And The Ones They Are Moving To," https://www3.forbes.com/leadership/the-us-states-people-are-fleeing-and-the-ones-they-are-moving-to-version-3-vue/?utm_campaign=fleeing-and-the-ones-they-are-moving-to-version-3-vue&utm_source=Yahoo-gemini&utm_medium=yh156979n0us471&lcid=yh156979n0us471&utm_content=AT%26T_MAIL_US&utm_term=currently.att.yahoo.com

Population: 3,101,800
Median Household Income: $68,731
Job Growth: 3.2%

Utah occupied the top spot in Forbes’ Best States for Business six times in seven years between 2010 and 2016 (Virginia in 2013 was the lone outlier), but fell to third in 2017 due to rising business costs and a softer economic outlook. The state has a very pro-business climate and companies benefit from energy costs that are 16% below the national average, according to Moody’s Analytics. Utah’s employment has expanded 3.3% a year over the past five years—second best in the U.S. Utah is well known for its winter activities and tourism has soared since the 2002 Winter Olympics. With two-thirds of Utahns being members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, Utah is the most religiously homogeneous state in the U.S.

How affordable is housing there.  I would think is is not affordable bases on the median income and the prices of homes.

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2 hours ago, Teancum said:

How affordable is housing there.  I would think is is not affordable bases on the median income and the prices of homes.

Prices are much lower than in California, and conditions are much more stable for refugees from Seattle and Portland.  For actual prices, consult Zillow online.

Prices for homes in Utah have been increasing in recent years.

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On 3/22/2021 at 1:44 PM, The Nehor said:

I am not saying it wouldn’t be a good thing. It is just impractical to mandate on a state level. My suspicion is the legislation was a result of lobbying by some software company that has created software that explicitly meet the requirements (because they designed the requirements). I expect a lot of cell phone stores to vanish and everyone to buy off of Amazon or online. Big manufacturers won’t kowtow to the law and will just stop selling rather than be coerced to work with the software developer. 

I might be wrong but that is my cynical suspicion.

If you can block it then some one can unblock it too.  And there are other devices- tablets, friend's phones etc.

Better to give the kids advice on why we don't watch it- besides commandments, the problems in can cause with later intimacy etc.

I mean we teach them about booze and you can't block THAT!

I think good parenting beats iron fisted authoritarianism and distrust.   This is life.  They are going to run into it sooner or later anyway, it would be better to teach them it can be damaging - that will still be a deterent when they are off to college and buying their own phones etc.

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On 3/23/2021 at 10:02 AM, Robert F. Smith said:

Prices are much lower than in California, and conditions are much more stable for refugees from Seattle and Portland.  For actual prices, consult Zillow online.

Prices for homes in Utah have been increasing in recent years.

Yes and Utah prices are no longer as attractive as they were.

Texas is much better- you can still buy a 3 br 2 bath in a decent neighborhood for 170- 180 k, in some places 150k.

The MEDIAN price for a home in LA county is now 650 k- that includes Beverly Hills and Watts.  You can sell your CA home and buy FOUR decent houses in Texas and have money left over and rental income coming in!

Now THAT sounds like a good decision to me!

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1 hour ago, mfbukowski said:

Yes and Utah prices are no longer as attractive as they were.

Texas is much better- you can still buy a 3 br 2 bath in a decent neighborhood for 170- 180 k, in some places 150k.

The MEDIAN price for a home in LA county is now 650 k- that includes Beverly Hills and Watts.  You can sell your CA home and buy FOUR decent houses in Texas and have money left over and rental income coming in!

Now THAT sounds like a good decision to me!

Some of my colleagues on the job in L.A. sold their homes and retired to Georgia (Atlanta area) to live like kings and still have a good deal extra in the bank.  The price differentials were amazing.  Same up here in Provo (and Utah generally), when the housing bubble burst a few years ago.

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On 3/24/2021 at 6:11 PM, mfbukowski said:

If you can block it then some one can unblock it too.  And there are other devices- tablets, friend's phones etc.

Better to give the kids advice on why we don't watch it- besides commandments, the problems in can cause with later intimacy etc.

I mean we teach them about booze and you can't block THAT!

I think good parenting beats iron fisted authoritarianism and distrust.   This is life.  They are going to run into it sooner or later anyway, it would be better to teach them it can be damaging - that will still be a deterent when they are off to college and buying their own phones etc.

I buy xiaomi phones, for what I paid for mine i'd have paid 600+ easy.  Since it's unlocked I have a pay as you go plan, get like, 3 gb a month and just wifi hop.  Cell phone plans here stateside are a scam lol.

Yeah, authoritarian stuff like that never works, people always find a way around it and laugh till it's legalized.  Going off your booze example, look at prohibition, sure benefitted the mob.  From the looks of things marijuana is going the same direction.

Props to you for educating your kids about alcohol/drugs, older I get more I realize a lot of parents don't, they expect society to do their job.  Gee, big surprise when the lessons kids learn aren't what their parents feel entitled to....

If I had kids think one of the first things i'd do is show them the damaga a DUI can cause, esp. costs.  Knew someone who had one, was knocked down to a DWAI, grand total was like, 15k.  This was a while ago too, can only imagine what it costs now. 

I was the responsible friend who drove down to the drunk tank at 1 AM to pick him up when the rest of his buddies bailed on him.  I'd tell kids that too, your homies will most likely not  be there.  

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