Update on Masterpiece Cake Shop Case

[AtlanticMike]

4 minutes ago, Raingirl said:

I’m confident he completely understands how he is coming across, and that it is willful and intentional. And I don’t think it needs to be a troll OR misogynistic. I think it can be both. 

I'm confident you don't understand how you come across to anyone with half a brain. When I pray tonight I'm thanking God for letting me live with women who think the exact opposite as you come across

Edited July 6, 2021 by AtlanticMike

[Calm]

4 hours ago, AtlanticMike said:

You more than anyone will follow me around and nit pick what I say. It's obvious you can't stand me. I'm sure I'm not the first person you've complained to Nemisis about day after day after day, you've already admitted your constantly complaining to the moderators, I think you said "a lot". 

    I know of at least two times when you and I are going back and forth that I've said, hey, let's disagree to disagree, and you can't do it! You just keep going and going and going. 

 

Today would be the day that I would say you have reached a point where I don’t like you if that matters to you.  But I have always prior to this been willing to doubt my interpretations and that I may have been taking your posts the wrong way and that if we had a chance to discuss in detail and in person, body language and effort would help clear up the major misunderstandings even if we remained in fundamental disagreement on certain behaviours, such as a woman should be able to choose rather than be forced to accept protection and how many women would perceive a man approaching them quickly at night in an almost empty parking lot and why that matters.  Also just because I think someone is likely a troll doesn’t mean I can’t stand them.  Some are lots of fun.  Can’t think of another poster who has managed to get me as far “wow, I really dislike you” category in fact, though a few have been consistently annoying to me because of consistent intentional or unintentional misrepresentations of the Church, FAIR, friends and other posters as well as myself.  I would say maybe 15 consistent misrepresenters (written this way to leave open the option of unintentional or not lying, just wrong) in the almost 20 years I have been hanging out on boards.  Usually someone’s commitment to their ideals and beliefs excuses a lot for me even if I disagree with them.

I did say “a lot” in terms of reporting…this was meant in contrast to those who say they will never use the report function and others who say they hardly ever report.  Not sure if anyone else has ever stated they try to help moderators by reporting posts breaking board rules, from the pattern of mod responses over the years (when they were more frequent for whatever reasons) I have gotten the impression that few use the report function unless something really crosses the line.  As a former moderator whose board was overrun, I think that is too late to make a difference.  So yes, in comparison to others, I report a lot IMO.  In comparison to the number of posters currently posting or posts, I don’t report that much.  Political comments even if I agree with them get the most reports.  I have even reported myself for making a political comment on occasion.  Want to give moderators the option for determining the board’s culture rather than a few non board rules compliant posters.
 

While my reporting goes in waves, on average I would guess not more than once a week and it wouldn’t even be that is I left out the “thread is going political” reports.  I generally try to follow the board rules of reporting one post per thread as all that is needed for moderators to be aware of problems and potential problems (usually *** for tats running on for more than six posts).  Flooding them with messages is unlikely to put one on their good side. I am guessing from my moderator days long past.  
 

Quote

You just keep going and going and going. 

For some strange reason I do not like being misrepresented. I suspect you feel the same way.

Fireworks have stopped and dog is quiet, think I will get back to watching my Asian TV.

PS:  looks like the censor is still going after a few harmless words still,

PPS:  I fully admit I am a nit picker.  It is a family trait, but I may take it to its highest development among my siblings.  No doubt one of the reasons I have a massive post count along with my drive to try and understand and be understood.

Edited July 6, 2021 by Calm

[AtlanticMike]

1 hour ago, Calm said:

reached a point where I don’t like you

Well, I would never say I don't like you, but I'm sure there's a lot of people in your life you don't like.

I've read through hundreds if not thousands of old threads on this forum and it's always the same handful of women who start attacking people if they don't agree or say something they deem out of line. I know Scott was kidding a couple months ago when he said, uh oh, the jackels are after me again, but he's correct, that's what it feels like. I'm sorry to say it but when you girls get together you can be down right cruel. 

    This poster is banned. There is too much to clean up so let's get back on topic. 

   

[Hamba Tuhan]

2 hours ago, AtlanticMike said:

From the second or third day I joined this forum I've been called all kinds names and been insulted and I think it's always been by a handful of women who act like they own this board.

Hey, that's not fair.

I think I was one of the very first to determine that you are a troll -- if not the first -- and I'm very much not a woman.

Edited July 6, 2021 by Hamba Tuhan

[Calm]

27 minutes ago, AtlanticMike said:

I'm sure there's a lot of people in your life you don't like.

Actually I can only think of 4 people I have ever disliked in 60 plus years.  One was an actual child abuser and just nasty to everyone; one woman prevented me from helping an abused child…the only time I ever saw ‘red’ so to speak…took me over a year to get past that; one has intentionally torn his family apart while acting like he is a saint in public, and now you….probably because it feels like you are asking me to dislike you because you haven’t done anything particularly horrendous.  There were probably a few more short term dislikes when I was younger, but my mom made a huge point of thinking the best of people and it took pretty well (she got very upset when I was in junior high and I said I pitied someone for being a jerk and calling someone stupid was as bad or worse than swear word…don’t think I ever swore in front of her, nor did my siblings except once so I can’t be sure about that).  That is not to say I don’t recognize there are some it is best I do not interact with if I can help it.

Edited July 6, 2021 by Calm

[Hamba Tuhan]

4 hours ago, MorningStar said:

Years ago while I was playing hide and seek with my sister and friends, a man pulled up on his bike and watched us as he masturbated ... We're "transphobic" if we don't want a lying pervert peering into our stalls (there are large cracks) while we're changing our feminine hygiene products and stuff.

Unfortunately, I'm certain that these kinds of things will happen to women because, as a man, I have experienced them untold times in public facilities. The large Midwestern American university where I studied for my master's degree had engraved plastic signs on all the male toilet doors in the Humanities Building (where I had most of my classes) informing us that the university supported our right to use the facilities free from interference or harassment and that we could report breaches to campus security, but that never really worked out because they don't install phones inside the toilet cubicles, do they?

I've experienced this twice in a shopping centre toilet within the past month, and one of my boys told me last week that it had happened to him two weekends ago. He was with one of his male work colleagues, and he said they only felt safe because they were together.

The last time I brought this up, California Boy accused me of lying and spreading 'homophobia', so yeah. I'm really sorry.

Edited July 6, 2021 by Hamba Tuhan

[Calm]

Voyeurism (male or female) is unfortunately nothing new and technology isn’t helping.

https://theprovince.com/news/b.c./hidden-camera-voyeurism-on-the-rise-in-bc

[Calm]

I have no clue on bias of newspaper…I am using it to report the stats it claims are from the government.  Tried to get it from the original source, but that required a subscription.  Higher rates of complaints in mixed spaces might be due to increased vigilance, lack of recognition of assault if done by a woman…may think some contact was accidental if a woman where it is assumed intentional if by a man, or other factors I can’t think of at the moment,

https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/women/sexual-assault-unisex-changing-rooms-sunday-times-women-risk-a8519086.html?amp

Quote

Just under 90 per cent of complaints regarding changing room sexual assaults, voyeurism and harassment are about incidents in unisex facilities.

What’s more, two thirds of all sexual attacks at leisure centres and public swimming pools take place in unisex changing rooms.

Of 134 complaints over 2017-2018, 120 reported incidents took place in gender-neutral changing rooms and just 14 were in single-sex changing areas.

In a further 46 cases, sexual assault allegations were made about attacks in other areas such as in the pool, in a sports hall or corridors.

Unisex facilities account for less than half the changing areas across the UK, but the number is on the rise - doing away with separate male and female changing rooms and toilets is seen as a way to cut staff costs and better cater for transgender people

This is the UK, but I don’t know of any reason the States would be lower in similar circumstances.

Edited July 6, 2021 by Calm

[Hamba Tuhan]

8 minutes ago, Calm said:

Voyeurism (male or female) is unfortunately nothing new and technology isn’t helping.

Yeah, we've had a couple of these cases here recently, one at our military academy and one at our national university, both involving men recording women -- during sex in one case and whilst showering in the other. Yuck.

But, speaking from personal experience, as disturbing as it is to see an eyeball peering through a hole drilled into the wall of a toilet cubicle -- I've never actually seen a camera lens! -- there are worse things.

[Hamba Tuhan]

37 minutes ago, Calm said:

Actually I can only think of 4 people I have ever disliked in 60 plus years. 

And in fact, you are so patient and understanding with posters on this forum that it sometimes drives me crazy!

[Calm]

1 minute ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

Yeah, we've had a couple of these cases here recently, one at our military academy and one at our national university, both involving men recording women -- during sex in one case and whilst showering in the other. Yuck.

But, speaking from personal experience, as disturbing as it is to see an eyeball peering through a hole drilled into the wall of a toilet cubicle -- I've never actually seen a camera lens! -- there are worse things.

Unfortunately such behaviour may be an indication of later “worse things”.

Quote

Most voyeurs engage in at least one other sexually deviant behaviour, usually exhibitionism or non-consensual sexual touching or rubbing.[4] There is also evidence that voyeurism occurs at an early stage along a continuum of sexual disorders that may become progressively more coercive and invasive.[5] Approximately 20% of voyeurs have committed sexual assault or rape.[6] In a number of Canadian cases, court have considered it relevant that persons convicted of crimes involving sexual and non-sexual violence have had a behavioural history which included voyeurism.[7] Moreover, studies have shown that men commit most sex crimes and women and children are almost always the victims.[8]

https://justice.gc.ca/eng/cons/voy/part1_context.html

[Calm]

14 minutes ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

And in fact, you are so patient and understanding with posters on this forum that it sometimes drives me crazy!

I feel the same way (except I don’t think it drives me crazy) about the other women being accused here as I know many of them through other connections besides what gets seen by everyone and to read that they are cruel and mean just doesn’t match what I have seen of them.  Protective of others and intent on being able to speak for themselves, yes…but malicious, nope.

No doubt everyone has gone too far on occasion, but a pattern of maliciousness against other posters is rare on the board and such posters have never lasted long. I don’t think the mods allow it to happen.

Edited July 6, 2021 by Calm

[sheilauk]

Far too many men want to silence women. For some reason,  it seems to be an affront to their manliness for women to have an opinion and to speak out. They view women as objects that need protection (from the wolves at the door? The marauders roaming the land with swords drawn?), rather than as individual humans with a brain and thoughts of their own.   If a group of men disagreed with their position,  there would be no accusations of a pile on.  But somehow,  when it's a group of women,  it's dismissed - it's just the "sisterhood" attacking them,  rather than maybe what they said was disagreeable to a lot of individuals. And then the insults fly, women are mean and nasty,  because they dared to hold and express a contrary opinion.  The insults are designed to shut us up. Because women have been conditioned to want to be liked.  We are in the 21st century. Women shouldn't still be fighting to be seen and heard.  Time for men to leave behind the attitudes of times long past. Until they do, women will continue to be afraid of them.   This is the problem with the "trans rights" "movement".  Women grow up knowing they need to be wary of men, all men.  It's not as if the ones who will assault you have a mark on their forehead.   All women by the time they are in their early twenties will have faced male aggression, from a stranger.  All women have to decide, every time they go out, how to deal with it. When they go on a first date, how do they get home if they don't like the guy?  What will he do if rejected?  Where do you park the car?  Will it be dark and isolated when you come back? When walking home, are the streets well lit? That man walking behind her,  is he safe?  Where do you run to for help?  Is your mobile charged up?  Keys in hand? Or do you just not go out?  We get called names if we're sexually active and names if we're not. When with a group of men, at work or socially,  even with other women there, the men dominate,  if a woman speaks,  too often she's ignored or her ideas usurped. Men who are supportive and who get it are rare and don't speak out enough to support women.   It's exhausting emotionally and physically to be on guard all the time,  to be thinking how to handle aggression  all the time and to be trying to be heard without being insulted.  And that's why women want a space to be with other women.  A place to relax and be heard,  to have the kind of conversation, atmosphere and experience  that men take for granted.  And that's the issue over trans women in that space.   They don't have the same emotional experiences, though they have probably experienced male violence.   But the conditioned response of a woman to a man is fear.   Will this man be safe? Even men that are known to a woman can't be presumed to be safe. So women can't relax even if the man says he's one of them and that removes the safe space. It's just another area where you have to watch out all the time. How an individual woman reacts will depend on her. Contrary to male opinion, we're not all the same.   Some choose to push the fear aside,  sone feel it and take various steps  (a friend will never park on the street if returning late at night from an event,  always in a well lit car park), many simply give up, they disappear from society and stay home. If you dont have to make those choices every day,  all day,  stop telling us what you think we should be thinking and try to listen instead.  Be part of the solution.  Yes, I know trans people suffer a lot of abuse and violence and share that female experience in that way,  but theit response when going into a female space will be very different to that of the women in there seeing a "man" walk in. I'm not sure what the solution is, given the violence that occurs in unisex places,  but until the issue is acknowledged  and women's feelings are recognised as valid,  there will continue to be problems and women will continue to be disappeared. 

[Calm]

3 minutes ago, sheilauk said:

When with a group of men, at work or socially,  even with other women there, the men dominate,  if a woman speaks,  too often she's ignored or her ideas usurped.

Documentation is available for these statements if desired. 

[sheilauk]

Regarding trans women in women's sport,  here's a thought. Supposing you were in the basketball team of company X.  The company takes part in an amateur league.  You do well.  You get to the final, you're up against company Y They are a good team but you've a fair chance of beating them.   You're feeling good about the upcoming match,  confident that if you do your best,  you can take home the trophy.   You go on to the court and get a shock.   The entire team of the Harlem globetrotters are there.  You protest and are told that company Y employs them (from two days ago) so the substitution is fair, you're told to stop complaining, that you are racist and to get on with the match.  How do you feel?  What is the inevitable outcome? 

[The Nehor]

3 hours ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

Yeah, we've had a couple of these cases here recently, one at our military academy and one at our national university, both involving men recording women -- during sex in one case and whilst showering in the other. Yuck.

But, speaking from personal experience, as disturbing as it is to see an eyeball peering through a hole drilled into the wall of a toilet cubicle -- I've never actually seen a camera lens! -- there are worse things.

It is not all bad. The exhibitionists amongst us are living in a golden age.

Also, people should eat more burritos.

[The Nehor]

20 minutes ago, sheilauk said:

Regarding trans women in women's sport,  here's a thought. Supposing you were in the basketball team of company X.  The company takes part in an amateur league.  You do well.  You get to the final, you're up against company Y They are a good team but you've a fair chance of beating them.   You're feeling good about the upcoming match,  confident that if you do your best,  you can take home the trophy.   You go on to the court and get a shock.   The entire team of the Harlem globetrotters are there.  You protest and are told that company Y employs them (from two days ago) so the substitution is fair, you're told to stop complaining, that you are racist and to get on with the match.  How do you feel?  What is the inevitable outcome? 

I wonder why I am suddenly living in a Simpsons episode.

[Bob Crockett]

7 hours ago, Calm said:

Actually I can only think of 4 people I have ever disliked in 60 plus years.  One was an actual child abuser and just nasty to everyone; one woman prevented me from helping an abused child…the only time I ever saw ‘red’ so to speak…took me over a year to get past that; one has intentionally torn his family apart while acting like he is a saint in public, and now you….probably because it feels like you are asking me to dislike you because you haven’t done anything particularly horrendous.  There were probably a few more short term dislikes when I was younger, but my mom made a huge point of thinking the best of people and it took pretty well (she got very upset when I was in junior high and I said I pitied someone for being a jerk and calling someone stupid was as bad or worse than swear word…don’t think I ever swore in front of her, nor did my siblings except once so I can’t be sure about that).  That is not to say I don’t recognize there are some it is best I do not interact with if I can help it.

Hah hah.  I like you even though you bust my chops every now and then!!!  Anyhoo, I've said in the past that AM was really somebody else, whom I identified by name.  

[Calm]

1 hour ago, Bob Crockett said:

Hah hah.  I like you even though you bust my chops every now and then!!!  Anyhoo, I've said in the past that AM was really somebody else, whom I identified by name.  

You don’t think I am following you around and nitpicking everything you say?  Only now and then?  

I just knew going ‘mean Mr. Hyde’ (or is it the Grinch?) on AM would pull the last bit of wool over your eyes (such hard work to find anything to nitpick in his posts, him being the perfect gentleman and his practically surgical skill at getting straight to the most important point….but with massive stretching on my part and a creative and cruel imagination, I finally managed).

It was risky, but my grand deception works!  I have successfully developed a new way to stealth stalk. No one has figured out you have been my ultimate target all along since I put up 60,000+ other posts and responded to almost every thread; now I can move on to my real goal of making your life hell.  And it only took 17 years!  
 

 

Edited July 6, 2021 by Calm

[Bob Crockett]

29 minutes ago, Calm said:

You don’t think I am following you around and nitpicking everything you say?  Only now and then?  

I just knew going ‘mean Mr. Hyde’ (or is it the Grinch?) on AM would pull the last bit of wool over your eyes (such hard work to find anything to nitpick in his posts, him being the perfect gentleman and his practically surgical skill at getting straight to the most important point….but with massive stretching on my part and a creative and cruel imagination, I finally managed).

It was risky, but my grand deception works!  I have successfully developed a new way to stealth stalk. No one has figured out you have been my ultimate target all along since I put up 60,000+ other posts and responded to almost every thread; now I can move on to my real goal of making your life hell.  And it only took 17 years!  
 

 

Despite you making my life a living hell ALL the time, it is worth it!!!  It keeps me humble!

I have tix to my first FAIR conference ever, this year.  I might go and I might see you there.

Edited July 6, 2021 by Bob Crockett

[Calm]

23 minutes ago, Bob Crockett said:

Despite you making my life a living hell ALL the time, it is worth it!!!  It keeps me humble!

I have tix to my first FAIR conference ever, this year.  I might go and I might see you there.

I am glad you maybe can make it, but unlikely I will be unless a little medical miracle or two take (trying cortisone shots for my back in a couple of weeks…and who knows, maybe I will finally figure out the how of cannabis as it feels pretty random right now…no, won’t be showing up stoned as I can only take it at night successfully…really ticked off as I was expecting it would at least be fun even if not helpful).
 

But if I make it, I will be in a party mood! 🎈 

Edited July 6, 2021 by Calm

[juliann]

8 hours ago, Calm said:

I feel the same way (except I don’t think it drives me crazy) about the other women being accused here as I know many of them through other connections besides what gets seen by everyone and to read that they are cruel and mean just doesn’t match what I have seen of them.  Protective of others and intent on being able to speak for themselves, yes…but malicious, nope.

No doubt everyone has gone too far on occasion, but a pattern of maliciousness against other posters is rare on the board and such posters have never lasted long. I don’t think the mods allow it to happen.

Not only that, I had this guy on ignore. I haven't said one word to him, although he tried hard enough....which I suspect makes him more angry than if I did respond. Can't win.

[Vanguard]

10 hours ago, AtlanticMike said:

Well, I would never say I don't like you, but I'm sure there's a lot of people in your life you don't like.

I've read through hundreds if not thousands of old threads on this forum and it's always the same handful of women who start attacking people if they don't agree or say something they deem out of line. I know Scott was kidding a couple months ago when he said, uh oh, the jackels are after me again, but he's correct, that's what it feels like. I'm sorry to say it but when you girls get together you can be down right cruel. 

    This poster is banned. There is too much to clean up so let's get back on topic. 

   

Banned from the thread or the entire forum?

[juliann]

2 hours ago, Bob Crockett said:

Hah hah.  I like you even though you bust my chops every now and then!!!  Anyhoo, I've said in the past that AM was really somebody else, whom I identified by name.  

So....who? 

I'll watch for you at the FAIR conference. 

[Bob Crockett]

2 hours ago, Calm said:

I am glad you maybe can make it, but unlikely I will be unless a little medical miracle or two take (trying cortisone shots for my back in a couple of weeks…and who knows, maybe I will finally figure out the how of cannabis as it feels pretty random right now…no, won’t be showing up stoned as I can only take it at night successfully…really ticked off as I was expecting it would at least be fun even if not helpful).
 

But if I make it, I will be in a party mood! 🎈 

Don't let them cut you!  My 50-year-old office manager had back surgery after I warned her not to do it.  [We had the same doctor; he recommended surgery to me and I fired him.]  This was several months ago and I don't think she is ever coming back.   One of my lawyers recommended to me that she take THC to get off the harder stuff.  Cortisone never worked for me.  I just live with it, but my problem is higher up the spine.