Scott Lloyd Posted June 27, 2020 Posted June 27, 2020 6 minutes ago, pogi said: This graph can be very deceptive. Just what exactly are you trying to say with it? 126,924 Let that number sink in. No end in sight. Most experts I have heard believe that number is low. Can you point to a flu season in your life time when we ever approached that number? And things are just barely picking up. We will be topping 200,000 in no time. Senior and Vulnerable Lives Matter! We should start a new campaign with that slogan. Please, no. I’m fed up to the point of retching with political correctness. 1
pogi Posted June 27, 2020 Posted June 27, 2020 Just now, Scott Lloyd said: Please, no. I’m fed up to the point of retching with political correctness. Political correctness? Is that what you think these public health measures are all about?
Scott Lloyd Posted June 27, 2020 Posted June 27, 2020 (edited) 18 minutes ago, pogi said: Political correctness? Is that what you think these public health measures are all about? That’s what I think virtue signaling and sloganeering are all about. And double-standard hypocrisy. When 1,300 so-called public health professionals put out a letter giving a pass to BLM protesters on social distancing and other precautions, their credibility takes a hit, don’t you think? If I were a public health professional, I’d be pretty bothered by it. Edited June 27, 2020 by Scott Lloyd 1
CV75 Posted June 27, 2020 Posted June 27, 2020 22 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said: Thank you for coming clean about removing the sad-face emoji. As they say, confession is good for the soul. Yes... and it was quite accidental, a colon after the right parenthesis yields a sad face: No sapce: (https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prevent-getting-sick/diy-cloth-face-coverings.html😞 vs Space: (https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prevent-getting-sick/diy-cloth-face-coverings.html) :
pogi Posted June 27, 2020 Posted June 27, 2020 (edited) 21 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said: That’s what I think virtue signaling and sloganeering are all about. So you are opposed to all the sloganeering the Church and other organizations you support put out? 21 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said: And double-standard hypocrisy. When 1,300 so-called public health professionals put out a letter giving a pass to BLM protesters on social distancing and other precautions, their credibility takes a hit, don’t you think? You will find opposing voices in any field. Public health professionals are no longer credible? Do you somehow pretend that this group speaks for all public health professionals? First of all, just who are these people? It sounds like the list is not just public health professionals, but also includes "community stake holders". Hmmmm, those aren't public health professionals. It seems you can't verify that 1,300 public health professionals signed a letter, can you? I wonder just how many public health professionals really signed that letter and just who are they and what positions they hold? It is meaningless as is. Anthony Fauci, the top government official on infectious diseases, warned Monday that protests in opposition to governors' stay-at-home orders meant to slow the spread of the coronavirus will "backfire"... https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/493647-fauci-warns-protests-against-against-stay-at-home-orders-will Fauci - being in such large crowds, chanting, and the chaos that has come out from some of the demonstrations are setting up dangerous conditions to spread COVID-19 https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/jun/5/dr-anthony-fauci-warns-perfect-set-spread-coronavi/ U.S. health experts, officials warn protests may add to virus spread https://www.reuters.com/article/us-minneapolis-police-protests-coronavir-idUSKBN2383HD Public Health Officials Worry The Coronavirus Might Spread Among Protestors https://www.npr.org/2020/06/01/867256453/public-health-officials-worry-the-coronavirus-might-spread-among-protestors Edited June 27, 2020 by pogi 3
Scott Lloyd Posted June 27, 2020 Posted June 27, 2020 (edited) 46 minutes ago, CV75 said: Yes... and it was quite accidental, a colon after the right parenthesis yields a sad face: No sapce: (https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prevent-getting-sick/diy-cloth-face-coverings.html😞 vs Space: (https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prevent-getting-sick/diy-cloth-face-coverings.html) : I can relate. I’ve had that happen to me plenty of times. The worst thing is when you want to be taken seriously with what you think is a very astute, perhaps solemn, point, and the stupid, distracting emoji pops up out of nowhere. Your edit note I found amusing, because it reminded me of I think it was Brent Metcalfe who, on the old Zion’s Lighthouse Message Board, would tack on an edited-to-do-this-or-that note for every little insignificant typo he fixed in one of his posts. Each time, I thought to myself, “If something needs fixing, just go ahead and do it. No need to inform the world that you fixed your typo.” Edited June 27, 2020 by Scott Lloyd 1
CV75 Posted June 27, 2020 Posted June 27, 2020 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said: I can relate. I’ve had that happen to me plenty of times. The worst thing is when you want to be taken seriously with what you think is a very astute, perhaps solemn, point, and the stupid, distracting emoji pops up out of nowhere. Your edit note I found amusing, because it reminded me of I think it was Brent Metcalfe who, on the old Zion’s Lighthouse Message Board, would tack on an edited-to-do-this-or-that note for every little insignificant typo he fixed in one of his posts. Each time, I thought to myself, “If something needs fixing, just go ahead and do it. No need to inform the world that you fixed your typo. The other one I keep doing is this: ... ... as with a scripture verse 8 with the right parenthesis. ETA: something, whatever! Edited June 27, 2020 by CV75
Scott Lloyd Posted June 27, 2020 Posted June 27, 2020 (edited) 46 minutes ago, pogi said: So you are opposed to all the sloganeering the Church and other organizations you support put out? You will find opposing voices in any field. Public health professionals are no longer credible? Do you somehow pretend that this group speaks for all public health professionals? First of all, just who are these people? It sounds like the list is not just public health professionals, but also includes "community stake holders". Hmmmm, those aren't public health professionals. It seems you can't verify that 1,300 public health professionals signed a letter, can you? I wonder just how many public health professionals really signed that letter and just who are they and what positions they hold? It is meaningless as is. Anthony Fauci, the top government official on infectious diseases, warned Monday that protests in opposition to governors' stay-at-home orders meant to slow the spread of the coronavirus will "backfire"... https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/493647-fauci-warns-protests-against-against-stay-at-home-orders-will Fauci - being in such large crowds, chanting, and the chaos that has come out from some of the demonstrations are setting up dangerous conditions to spread COVID-19 https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/jun/5/dr-anthony-fauci-warns-perfect-set-spread-coronavi/ U.S. health experts, officials warn protests may add to virus spread https://www.reuters.com/article/us-minneapolis-police-protests-coronavir-idUSKBN2383HD Public Health Officials Worry The Coronavirus Might Spread Among Protestors https://www.npr.org/2020/06/01/867256453/public-health-officials-worry-the-coronavirus-might-spread-among-protestors Well, not all slogans are created equal. Some are more-or-less effective. Some are merely annoying. Some go all the way to the devisive extreme. It is, of course, correct that this group does not speak for all public health professionals. But I believe they would like to convey the impression that they do. And fair or not, they cause all of you to get painted in the public mind with the same broad brush. The same thing happens in journalism. There are good, responsible journalists with strong standards of ethics and professionalism. But what the public sees are the blowhards and grandstanders in the White House press corps like Jim Acosta, Brian Karem and Paula Reid. Result: the public’s impression of the journalism profession is in the cellar. Edited June 27, 2020 by Scott Lloyd
pogi Posted June 27, 2020 Posted June 27, 2020 2 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said: Well, not all slogans are created equal. Some are more-or-less effective. Some are merely annoying. Some go all the way to the decisive extreme. It is, of course, correct that this group does not speak for all public health professionals. But I believe they would like to convey the impression that they do. And fair or not, they cause all of you to get painted in the public mind with the same broad brush. The same thing happens in journalism. There are good, responsible journalists with strong standards of ethics and professionalism. But what the public sees are the blowhards and grandstanders in the White House press corps like Jim Acosta and Paula Reid. Result: the public’s impression of the journalism profession is in the cellar. We don't even know how many public health professionals actually signed it. There may be only 2 or 3 for all we know.
Scott Lloyd Posted June 27, 2020 Posted June 27, 2020 3 minutes ago, CV75 said: The other one I keep doing is this: ... ... as with a scripture verse 8 with the right parenthesis. ETA: something, whatever! Yeah, that’s what I’m talking about! I utter some pearl of wisdom, and up pops that stupid gum-chewing, sunglasses wearing emoji. It’s worse than if I had put DON’T TAKE ME SERIOUSLY in shouty caps at the bottom of my post.
Scott Lloyd Posted June 27, 2020 Posted June 27, 2020 (edited) 5 minutes ago, pogi said: We don't even know how many public health professionals actually signed it. There may be only 2 or 3 for all we know. It is widely reported that it was over a thousand. One figure I heard was 1,300. The worse part of the letter is that among their recommendations was for people to donate to funds to bail out rioters and looters. Edited June 27, 2020 by Scott Lloyd
pogi Posted June 27, 2020 Posted June 27, 2020 13 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said: It is widely reported that it was over a thousand. One figure I heard was 1,300. The worse part of the letter is that among their recommendations was for people to donate to funds to bail out rioters and looters. I tried to make this point earlier, but maybe you missed it. It is widely reported that the letter was not signed by public health professionals only, but the number also includes "community stake holders" (voters?). It could be signed by 2 -3 public health professionals and 1,000 community members for all we know. It is clearly meant to deceive. https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/05/health/health-care-open-letter-protests-coronavirus-trnd/index.html https://www.dailywire.com/news/hundreds-of-health-professionals-sign-letter-supporting-protests https://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=234520 https://www.usnews.com/news/health-news/articles/2020-06-05/covid-19-concerns-shouldnt-shut-down-police-brutality-protests-health-experts
Scott Lloyd Posted June 27, 2020 Posted June 27, 2020 31 minutes ago, pogi said: I tried to make this point earlier, but maybe you missed it. It is widely reported that the letter was not signed by public health professionals only, but the number also includes "community stake holders" (voters?). It could be signed by 2 -3 public health professionals and 1,000 community members for all we know. It is clearly meant to deceive. https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/05/health/health-care-open-letter-protests-coronavirus-trnd/index.html https://www.dailywire.com/news/hundreds-of-health-professionals-sign-letter-supporting-protests https://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=234520 https://www.usnews.com/news/health-news/articles/2020-06-05/covid-19-concerns-shouldnt-shut-down-police-brutality-protests-health-experts Then CNN is among the deceived. This is their headline on your link: “Over 1,000 health professionals sign a letter saying, Don't shut down protests using coronavirus concerns as an excuse“ if only two or three of the signers were truly public health professionals, I would welcome that news. But do you realistically think that’s the case? And if their names are attached to something they haven’t endorsed or don’t fully support, why haven’t they disavowed it?
smac97 Posted June 27, 2020 Posted June 27, 2020 2 hours ago, pogi said: This graph can be very deceptive. Just what exactly are you trying to say with it? 126,924 Let that number sink in. No end in sight. Most experts I have heard believe that number is low. Can you point to a flu season in your life time when we ever approached that number? And things are just barely picking up. We will be topping 200,000 in no time. Senior and Vulnerable Lives Matter! We should start a new campaign with that slogan. I wish people would calm down a bit. I'm not staking out a position. I am posting data I came across. I thought that's the purpose of this thread. https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/past-seasons.html
pogi Posted June 27, 2020 Posted June 27, 2020 (edited) 29 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said: Then CNN is among the deceived. This is their headline on your link: “Over 1,000 health professionals sign a letter saying, Don't shut down protests using coronavirus concerns as an excuse“ if only two or three of the signers were truly public health professionals, I would welcome that news. But do you realistically think that’s the case? And if their names are attached to something they haven’t endorsed or don’t fully support, why haven’t they disavowed it? The only point I am trying to make is that this document in no way represents public health, and headlines are misleading (yes, that includes CNN - I have no affinity to them) us to believe that only public health professionals have signed it. I don't understand your last question. If they signed it, they clearly endorse it. I am not arguing that there are zero public health professionals that endorse it. I am simply suggesting that you can't discredit public health efforts because of this. Edited June 27, 2020 by pogi 1
Scott Lloyd Posted June 27, 2020 Posted June 27, 2020 (edited) 7 minutes ago, pogi said: The only point I am trying to make is that this document in no way represents public health, and headlines are misleading us to believe that only public health professionals have signed it. I don't understand your last question. If they signed it, they clearly endorse it. I am not arguing that there are zero public health professionals that endorse it. I am simply suggesting that you can't discredit public health efforts because of this. I’ve already acknowledged that, at the same time making the point that the letter has harmed the credibility if not the reputation of public health professionals. Those who did sign it have needlessly politicized their role for the sake of political correctness when the public looks to them for solid guidance that is unbiased by political leanings. Edited June 27, 2020 by Scott Lloyd
pogi Posted June 27, 2020 Posted June 27, 2020 (edited) 18 minutes ago, smac97 said: I wish people would calm down a bit. I'm not staking out a position. I am posting data I came across. I thought that's the purpose of this thread. https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/past-seasons.html It appeared you were trying to minimize the threat of the virus by posting a graph that is easy to misread. I am sorry if I misunderstood your intentions. Edited June 27, 2020 by pogi 1
pogi Posted June 27, 2020 Posted June 27, 2020 2 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said: I’ve already acknowledged that, at the same time making the point that the letter has harmed the credibility if not the reputation of public health professionals. You say that you agree with it but continue to try and use this letter to discredit public health professionals (as a whole, it seems), and by extension their efforts. 1
Scott Lloyd Posted June 27, 2020 Posted June 27, 2020 (edited) 19 minutes ago, pogi said: You say that you agree with it but continue to try and use this letter to discredit public health professionals (as a whole, it seems), and by extension their efforts. I’m highlighting the damage that has been done by the letter to the credibility of the health care professionals. I don’t like it any more than I like what the Jim Acostas of society are doing to the public perception of journalists. But I acknowledge the reality of it. And if this letter does not accurately reflect the sentiments of health care professionals generally, why aren’t we seeing any of them disavowing it — or portions of it such as advocating that people bail out rioters, looters and arsonists? Edited June 27, 2020 by Scott Lloyd
smac97 Posted June 27, 2020 Posted June 27, 2020 29 minutes ago, pogi said: It appeared you were trying to minimize the threat of the virus by posting a graph that is easy to misread. I am sorry if I misunderstood your intentions. Again, I am not staking out of position. I am posting data that I come across. I recognize that the virus constitutes a substantial threat to the health and welfare of our societie. However, I think it's fair to question and even challenge some of the governmental edicts that have been issued in relation to it. Our economy has been decimated. It will take years and years to recover from what we've done to it. I question how much of that was actually necessary. In the coming months we will see an avalanche I'm foreclosures. The ramifications will be pretty terrible. The loss of jobs has been terrible. The reprit cushions will be felt for years and years. I am concerned about our civil liberties being prominently curtailed by politicians who now may feel they have carte Blanche to do whatever they want under the guise of public help. Then we have inconsistent and contradictory statements from medical professionals. We have politicized input from politicians and apparently from some health care professionals that privilidge rioters and looters going about doing whatever they want, while a group of 20 Jews is not allowed to congregate in New York City. These are some legitimate points of concern and discussion and debate. Let's stop trying to stifle people by scolding them Or suggesting that they are indifferent to the health and welfare of others. 1
pogi Posted June 27, 2020 Posted June 27, 2020 (edited) 25 minutes ago, smac97 said: Again, I am not staking out of position. I am posting data that I come across. I recognize that the virus constitutes a substantial threat to the health and welfare of our societie. However, I think it's fair to question and even challenge some of the governmental edicts that have been issued in relation to it. Our economy has been decimated. It will take years and years to recover from what we've done to it. I question how much of that was actually necessary. In the coming months we will see an avalanche I'm foreclosures. The ramifications will be pretty terrible. The loss of jobs has been terrible. The reprit cushions will be felt for years and years. I am concerned about our civil liberties being prominently curtailed by politicians who now may feel they have carte Blanche to do whatever they want under the guise of public help. Then we have inconsistent and contradictory statements from medical professionals. We have politicized input from politicians and apparently from some health care professionals that privilidge rioters and looters going about doing whatever they want, while a group of 20 Jews is not allowed to congregate in New York City. These are some legitimate points of concern and discussion and debate. Let's stop trying to stifle people by scolding them Or suggesting that they are indifferent to the health and welfare of others. Are you sure you aren’t staking out a position on these discussions and debate? Could have fooled me. After this, I somehow doubt there was no message you were trying to convey with that graph. I was simply putting it in perspective. Edited June 27, 2020 by pogi 2
blarsen Posted June 27, 2020 Posted June 27, 2020 19 hours ago, Rain said: Found it posted several places now Any link(s) to the original article/story, etc.??
smac97 Posted June 27, 2020 Posted June 27, 2020 50 minutes ago, pogi said: Are you sure you aren’t staking out a position on these discussions and debate? Could have fooled me. After this, I somehow doubt there was no message you were trying to convey with that graph. I was simply putting it in perspective. To clarify, I am not staking out a position that disputes the seriousness of the epidemic.
pogi Posted June 27, 2020 Posted June 27, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, smac97 said: To clarify, I am not staking out a position that disputes the seriousness of the epidemic. Can you please clarify then the point of the graph if it wasn't to minimize the seriousness of the pandemic? I have no problem with people questioning governmental edicts. I doubt anyone thinks there haven't been violations of civil liberties and governmental missteps. We will likely disagree on where and how, but it is fair to raise those points when we see them. What REALLY bothers me however, is when people attempt to downplay the pandemic or minimize the threat in an effort to justify their position and grievances with the government. By minimizing this pandemic, they are undermining the efforts and sacrifices I make everyday in fighting this virus. I am making significant sacrifices for this community, working nearly everyday all-day, including right now on a Saturday (occasional break here and there to unwind here) trying to contain this virus and bring normalcy back to our society. It's getting to the point that we can't keep up anymore. If all the people who try to minimize this get their way (and it seems to be that they are winning), our hospitals are going to be overwhelmed in a matter of weeks. We just hit a record high yesterday. I am the one seeing the effects of that in our community. I am speaking directly with the people effected. It is not pretty. When our hospitals get to that level (and they will if this rate continues), that will only lead to more economic problems, and even more concerning - deaths (and not just from Covid, but from people who can't get treated for other things because the hospitals are full). How is that going to help our economy!? If you want to help our economy stay afloat...DON'T MINIMIZE THIS. Wear a mask! Don't go to large gatherings and protests. Practice social distancing. Stop comparing this to the flu! Be responsible at work in taking every precaution to slow this down. And DON'T sing at church. If they are singing in your ward, please don't go. Do not sing with groups of 99 in this kind of spike. Being at church won't protect you. Simple as that. Help our economy by following public health precautions and recommendations, even if the church isn't doing so. Fighting these simple measures could lead to more lockdowns. We are starting to see that already in other states. We don't want that to happen here. I should clarify that I am venting a lot of frustration in this and it is not all directed at you. Edited June 27, 2020 by pogi 3
Calm Posted June 27, 2020 Author Posted June 27, 2020 (edited) I got the impression Smac was putting up it for a stand alone FYI, like I often do, without meaning to provide an explicit or implicit comment. I get the confusion due to his previous post that include the flu quote though. If it was meant to be a continuing part of a conversation, context gives a different meaning than a stand alone post. The point of the thread was to "getting the best info for ourselves and others" (which includes appraising info posted) so FYIs are welcomed, but should be expected to be challenged for accuracy if questionable. Edited June 27, 2020 by Calm
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