What Am I Not Understanding: Members Holding Public Gospel Study Sessions

[Bernard Gui]

1 hour ago, Duncan said:

Something that kills me is our Bishop's storehouse is STILL open. The couple that run in, they think they are immune. They are in the at target group. They are even asking for volunteers to help with this!!!!! It's at a Chapel here, which I thought was banned from use??? We had an audio meeting the other night, the Bishop, EQ and RS Pres. Both her and I are like is this some kind of stupid to have it still open??? Why can't we get people to give their order to the Bishop, he authorizes cheques to be given to us or their ministering brothers/sisters and they get their stuff? I can't wrap my head around it.

I think there is a belief among some, maybe many, that while doing your duty and callings there will be divine protection. Perhaps that is true to some extent, and there is scriptural precedent, but IMO we should use wisdom and prudence in making decisions.

[Calm]

Our storehouse is running.  It is up to thanksgiving levels, in fact.  My husband volunteers usually, but with so many missionaries returned, they have sent everyone else home.  The patron submits the request at the door, waits in the car while the order gets filled, picks it up at the door and loads it themselves.

Everything gets sanitized.

Perhaps in Canada, Storehouse and local food shelters are not needed though I know they had several in Calgary, but maybe the government is covering those services now.

They are considered essential services here in the States along with regular grocery stores, truckers, medical services.  School cafeterias are making meals for take out for kids who wouldn't eat otherwise.  People still have to eat.

Your couple may see themselves as less immune, but still more of a necessity, willing to risk themselves to keep others healthy like doctors and others helping those in need.

Hopefully your couple is practicing safe procedures in giving out the food.  If small enough operation, maybe the stake president or authority over them should suggest there are better ways to get food to the needy.

I read an article where the Church is increasing their canning operation to help ensure supplies are there when needed.

Edited March 26, 2020 by Calm

[JamesBYoung]

9 hours ago, provoman said:

The Constitution basis of such authority?

You are saying the government does not have the authority.  The government has the authority until the courts says it does not.  So what will you argue that says the governments do not have the We the People authority to ban public meetings?

One, it can be argued that the law like scripture is not for personal interpretation, and two, the individual is part of the collective bargains made by We the People.  The individual may disagree and act as his/her own risk.

Edited March 26, 2020 by JamesBYoung

[JamesBYoung]

I remember an incident at Liberty Park in SLC where a dope-smoking member of a drum circle was arrested.

The thirty odd members of the drum circle then did surround the two police members and extracted their buddy from custody, telling the officers if they interfered they would be stomped into the grass.

The officers let the person go, and within an hour the riot squad drag stomped a line right through the drum roll area and dispersed the crowd.

The safety of the public was the reason used then, and that will be the same reason used now.

Edited March 26, 2020 by JamesBYoung

[Amulek]

8 hours ago, sunstoned said:

I don't understand these people.  This is a medical situation.  The scientist and medical professionals say to stay home and practice social distancing.  It is not a debate, and it is not a religious situation at all. These people should be looking to the scientists and doctors for guidance and not trying to justify their actions any other way.

I can appreciate the desire to want to have group interaction. When we had our first Ward Counsel Zoom meeting after the change this was one of the top things that was mentioned. While many people have enjoyed the novelty of at-home church, lots of people miss the group discussion aspect of Sunday school and class/quorum meetings. 

Our ward is looking into having a shortened version of classes via technology (e.g., Zoom, WebEx, etc.) which could allow for that interaction (though it may take some work due to not everyone being equally savvy when it comes to that sort of thing). It isn't something we have committed to just yet, but we're weighing our options given the counsel we have received about social distancing, which we are following. 

 

[Amulek]

8 hours ago, Duncan said:

Something that kills me is our Bishop's storehouse is STILL open.

I don't see how an operational Bishop's storehouse is any more controversial than a grocery store remaining open. 

If you can still drive up to McDonald's and grab a Big Mac, I don't see why you couldn't drive down to the Bishop's storehouse and have someone fill your trunk up with food.

 

[Boanerges]

12 hours ago, carbon dioxide said:

I don't see the legal basis of the government banning private gatherings of any kind.  This is the USA and not China.  However it is not a proclamation that can be enforced. 

Just because we can (legally) doesn't mean we should. This isn't a civil rights issue. There is evidence that social distancing does work, not only here but in other places in the world - it wasn't our idea, we took it. I don't buy into "the sky is falling" rhetoric, and if we're paying attention we know that the 60-80% of the population getting infected stuff is worse case scenario over a period of three years if we don't do anything (no social distancing, no treatment development, no vaccine). But I also don't desire that I get sick or my family members get sick or that people I met with get sick. Social distancing is not a hard thing. I still go outside and walk every day, and I have been to the store more than once. There is no need for me to go to my neighbors or invite them to my house though, I'll help them if they need it and they'll likely help me if I need it. I don't to get together with them just to study the gospel or any other "righteous Purpose." We'll get through this alone together.

[provoman]

1 hour ago, Boanerges said:

Just because we can (legally) doesn't mean we should. This isn't a civil rights issue.

Just because some think "we shouldn't" does mean there should criminal punishment.

And wouldn't a "no private gatherings" be a freedom of association issue. 

[Duncan]

2 hours ago, Amulek said:

I don't see how an operational Bishop's storehouse is any more controversial than a grocery store remaining open. 

If you can still drive up to McDonald's and grab a Big Mac, I don't see why you couldn't drive down to the Bishop's storehouse and have someone fill your trunk up with food.

 

here the drive thru is still open, believe me I checked! at the storehouse it isn't that way

[Rain]

3 hours ago, Amulek said:

I can appreciate the desire to want to have group interaction. When we had our first Ward Counsel Zoom meeting after the change this was one of the top things that was mentioned. While many people have enjoyed the novelty of at-home church, lots of people miss the group discussion aspect of Sunday school and class/quorum meetings. 

Our ward is looking into having a shortened version of classes via technology (e.g., Zoom, WebEx, etc.) which could allow for that interaction (though it may take some work due to not everyone being equally savvy when it comes to that sort of thing). It isn't something we have committed to just yet, but we're weighing our options given the counsel we have received about social distancing, which we are following. 

 

We are trying to video chat with each of the children in our primary class.  1 or 2 of them each day is what we plan.  Yesterday was our first time.

[Amulek]

6 minutes ago, Rain said:

We are trying to video chat with each of the children in our primary class.  1 or 2 of them each day is what we plan.  Yesterday was our first time.

Our young women classes all met last night via video chat (three separate sessions) and did remote Pictionary. Everything seemed to go pretty well - except for the 12+ class who tried to begin their meeting by reciting the YW theme - that was an unmitigated disaster. LOL. 

 

[bsjkki]

Food pantries are allowed to stay open in Colorado. I would think Bishop Storehouses could stay open.

[Bernard Gui]

6 hours ago, Amulek said:

I don't see how an operational Bishop's storehouse is any more controversial than a grocery store remaining open. 

If you can still drive up to McDonald's and grab a Big Mac, I don't see why you couldn't drive down to the Bishop's storehouse and have someone fill your trunk up with food.

It would depend on what training and safety protocols the folks running the storehouse are following, if any. At least in our state, it would also be important that they are recognized as a legitimate food outlet.

[Amulek]

4 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

It would depend on what training and safety protocols the folks running the storehouse are following, if any.

Well sure, if they are licking the avocados before placing them in your bag then that should probably stop. 

But I don't think there's anything inherently shocking / surprising / controversial about a food shelter like the bishop's storehouse remaining open - especially when other, similar essential businesses remain open (not to mention all the questionably essential ones). 

The OP seemed scandalized that the bishop's storehouse even open at all. Not that they were open and not following CDC guidelines (or whatever the Canadian equivalent may be) or open in spite of some specific, particularized risk. Just that they were open - period. That just seems a little overwrought to me. 

 

[bsjkki]

15 hours ago, Duncan said:

Something that kills me is our Bishop's storehouse is STILL open. The couple that run in, they think they are immune. They are in the at target group. They are even asking for volunteers to help with this!!!!! It's at a Chapel here, which I thought was banned from use??? We had an audio meeting the other night, the Bishop, EQ and RS Pres. Both her and I are like is this some kind of stupid to have it still open??? Why can't we get people to give their order to the Bishop, he authorizes cheques to be given to us or their ministering brothers/sisters and they get their stuff? I can't wrap my head around it.

It is considered a critical need right now. Food pantries are being overrun because so many people lost their jobs last week. I think they should follow the under 10 people rule and institute safety protocols. Only employees in the store...bring the food order outside for pickup. Our grocery stores are still packed. 

[Duncan]

56 minutes ago, bsjkki said:

It is considered a critical need right now. Food pantries are being overrun because so many people lost their jobs last week. I think they should follow the under 10 people rule and institute safety protocols. Only employees in the store...bring the food order outside for pickup. Our grocery stores are still packed. 

they are trying to figure it out and I hope it works out for them. The Bishop is limiting the amount of people that get it, as in some can go to government subsidy, he'd use church funds for that and they have curbside delivery, the Storehouse doesn't

[bsjkki]

14 minutes ago, Duncan said:

they are trying to figure it out and I hope it works out for them. The Bishop is limiting the amount of people that get it, as in some can go to government subsidy, he'd use church funds for that and they have curbside delivery, the Storehouse doesn't

Why would it be hard to have curbside pickup? I hope they get it worked out in your area. We gave private food pantries and food stamps for people who are struggling. All of those services are still open.

[Calm]

34 minutes ago, Duncan said:

they have curbside delivery, the Storehouse doesn'

Why don't you talk to them about it.  Explain how Bishop Storehouses are being run elsewhere.  I can have my husband write up the instructions he got last week when he was still helping.

I would assume there is an oversight committee or something that is running these for a country or from Salt Lake, there should be a number they call to get instructions?

Edited March 26, 2020 by Calm

[revelstoked]

Back to the original flyer, I don't see how a Bishop or any other priesthood authority should "stop it."  The flyer does not contain any association with the ward and makes no claim as to operating under the authority of any church organization.  I am also a tad bit concerned that people may think that you can only discuss the gospel as a group only under the direction of your local leaders.  That (only studying approved materials and in approved venues) IMHO leads into a different kind of apostasy than the kind you might see from more focused "study groups" focusing on particular "gospel hobbies." It also runs counter to the recent push towards spiritual self sufficiency.  When passing through a strait it is possible to run aground on either side of the strait, so each ship needs to take care to navigate through so that the middle is safely navigated.

[revelstoked]

The bishops storehouse absolutely is an essential service, it's providing food to those in need.  At my particular storehouse they sent home all volunteers over 60 and the whole place is mostly being run by 20 year old missionaries, with some exceptions.  It's basically a drive through operation now where the missionaries bring the food orders to your car and even put it in your trunk if needed.  You never need to leave your car if that's your concern.

[Duncan]

37 minutes ago, Calm said:

Why don't you talk to them about it.  Explain how Bishop Storehouses are being run elsewhere.  I can have my husband write up the instructions he got last week when he was still helping.

I would assume there is an oversight committee or something that is running these for a country or from Salt Lake, there should be a number they call to get instructions?

oh, I have but apparently deafness is an issue. I know our RS Pres. said basically the same things but to no avail. So, I say I am not subjecting myself to a virus, forget it. People can get their own stuff. I think the people here came up with their own rules I suspect

[Duncan]

1 hour ago, bsjkki said:

Why would it be hard to have curbside pickup? I hope they get it worked out in your area. We gave private food pantries and food stamps for people who are struggling. All of those services are still open.

ah, drivers are an issue. it's so DUMB here. Ideally they want the person to pick it up, barring that i.e no car then their ministering brother or sister has to take them to the chapel to get it, barring that then the ministering brother or sister picks it up but approval blah blah blah. This new chief cheese,not to be rude, is a jagweed for the rules

We used to have two brothers in our ward who are blind, one is 1000% blind and other like mostly blind and is in mental decline, sadly. They want both of them to help set up and our ward is like, are you some kind of stupid??? they can't see!!!!!!! There's no way they can help set up, so one brother moved and his new ward is trying to have him set up and it's an exercise in futility to have him be there, just let him live and someone will get his stuff. The other brother can't participate in any way shape or form and so his ministering brother is blunt with the operators of this thing, he's not coming. So, i say shut this thing down, put folks on that curbside assistance thing and everyone will be happy

Edited March 26, 2020 by Duncan

[Calm]

1 minute ago, Duncan said:

oh, I have but apparently deafness is an issue. I know our RS Pres. said basically the same things but to no avail. So, I say I am not subjecting myself to a virus, forget it. People can get their own stuff. I think the people here came up with their own rules I suspect

If the bishop or RS Society Pres is willing, they should go higher up for instruction.  This couple is representing the Church and I know Canada has different rules on suing for liability, but if it turns out this couple is contagious while handing out food and someone they give food to becomes sick, the Church might be seen as liable and could get sued if in the States if they cannot show their agent was ignoring instructions and they did due diligence to try and enforce rules...and maybe even if they did (I am not a lawyer obviously, so my description may be off, but hopefully general idea is getting across).

My stake in Calgary made a very big deal about certain safety restrictions for legal reasons, so there must be some form of legal liability going on.

[Calm]

5 minutes ago, Duncan said:

ah, drivers are an issue. it's so DUMB here. Ideally they want the person to pick it up, barring that i.e no car then their ministering brother or sister has to take them to the chapel to get it, barring that then the ministering brother or sister picks it up but approval blah blah blah. This new chief cheese,not to be rude, is a jagweed for the rules

Do you mean with the Church or the city?  If the Church, that person surely has some say on how the couple is doing things.  Keep the rules or you will be released and another couple called sort of thing.

 Does the city have clear rules?  If so, church members need to be following them and if not, you should try and find someone who can do something about it and is willing to for the sake of those that are following the rules but coming in contact with those who are not.  Even report it to the city or threatened to (in a nice gentle way...maybe as in "someone is going to tell the city if this keeps happening, isn't it better to fix it without getting them involved?")

[Duncan]

7 minutes ago, Calm said:

Do you mean with the Church or the city?  If the Church, that person surely has some say on how the couple is doing things.  Keep the rules or you will be released and another couple called sort of thing.

 Does the city have clear rules?  If so, church members need to be following them and if not, you should try and find someone who can do something about it and is willing to for the sake of those that are following the rules but coming in contact with those who are not.  Even report it to the city or threatened to (in a nice gentle way...maybe as in "someone is going to tell the city if this keeps happening, isn't it better to fix it without getting them involved?")

it's all the Church. Their is a home grown organization, forget the name, but basically you volunteer to go to someone's house, they give you a list with money, you buy it and then you drop it off at their house-now, that's if you don't run off with their money🤑 but i'm hoping no one does that!!!!!! I take it they have an honour system