Binding the Lord (Enos 1:18, Dc 82:10, Pres. Nelson, Elder Bednar)

[nuclearfuels]

While my fathers were not Nephi, Lehi, et al or at all, I'm still a child of God and joint Heir of Christ, so I am wondering / hoping I might also require things of the Lord and Heavenly Father in prayer.

Have any of you taken this approach in prayer - the approach of requiring things of the Lord? Sounds kind of...heavy/presumptuous, no?

Enos 1: 18 And the Lord said unto me: Thy fathers have also required of me this thing; and it shall be done unto them according to their faith; for their faith was like unto thine.

D&C 82:10 

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/media-library/video/2010-07-066-the-lord-is-bound?lang=eng

[rongo]

Doctrine and Covenants: "I the Lord am bound when ye do what I say; but when ye do not what I say, ye have no promise." 

Our mission coat of arms included a chain to remind us to "bind the Lord with cords of righteousness." The thought that we can "bind" the Lord through obedience might offend some, but it's a true theme in the Doctrine and Covenants (e.g., all blessings are predicated on specific law, and when we obtain a blessing, it is by obeying the law upon which they are predicated). If we can obtain specific blessings by obeying specific laws, then we can realistically "bind" God, in that we can hold Him to His honor and His word. 

[strappinglad]

Therein lies the rub. How does one know which law ties to which blessing ? Does one just try to obey all the laws and hope that the correct one is obeyed in order to achieve the wanted blessing? 

[Hamba Tuhan]

30 minutes ago, strappinglad said:

Therein lies the rub. How does one know which law ties to which blessing ?

God is not a vending machine of blessings. He's our Father. As we seek His will, He pours out upon us individualised blessings that He understands are best for us. At least that has been my experience.

[Tacenda]

I never liked the scripture in Elder Bednar's talk. I don't do things to get blessings, I do things because it's the right thing to do. I wasn't big on the reward system I guess, my kids didn't grow up with it much, maybe they got the rewards from school and church teachers though. 

[DispensatorMysteriorum]

Don't ask me for a reference (because I don't have the time to dig), but I'm pretty sure Skousen has demonstrated that the word "required" in the Book of Mormon is usually archaic and actually means "requested."

Does this ring a bell with anyone? 

[CV75]

8 hours ago, Tacenda said:

I never liked the scripture in Elder Bednar's talk. I don't do things to get blessings, I do things because it's the right thing to do. I wasn't big on the reward system I guess, my kids didn't grow up with it much, maybe they got the rewards from school and church teachers though. 

I'm not sure that complete dependence merits a reward, or that rescue is a reward. When we "require" something of the Lord, it means that He is the only one, and His is the only way, that we can obtain it. Like 2 Nephi 4:35, "Yea, I know that God will give ^aliberally to him that asketh. Yea, my God will give me, if I ^bask ^cnot amiss; therefore I will lift up my voice unto thee; yea, I will cry unto thee, my God, the ^drock of my ^erighteousness. Behold, my voice shall forever ascend up unto thee, my rock and mine everlasting God. Amen."

Everything we ask of God should be "required" of Him in this way and thus not "amiss", requested with the sense of complete dependence on His mercy and grace, and recognition that its provision is by way of the atonement of Jesus Christ. When you need something that badly, you will be happy to plead Him for it.

 

[CV75]

18 minutes ago, DispensatorMysteriorum said:

Don't ask me for a reference (because I don't have the time to dig), but I'm pretty sure Skousen has demonstrated that the word "required" in the Book of Mormon is usually archaic and actually means "requested."

Does this ring a bell with anyone? 

Yes, it does, but it also has to do with requesting that which is necessary or essential.

[nuclearfuels]

11 hours ago, Tacenda said:

I don't do things to get blessings

I do things to get blessings

[Islander]

18 hours ago, rongo said:

Doctrine and Covenants: "I the Lord am bound when ye do what I say; but when ye do not what I say, ye have no promise." 

Our mission coat of arms included a chain to remind us to "bind the Lord with cords of righteousness." The thought that we can "bind" the Lord through obedience might offend some, but it's a true theme in the Doctrine and Covenants (e.g., all blessings are predicated on specific law, and when we obtain a blessing, it is by obeying the law upon which they are predicated). If we can obtain specific blessings by obeying specific laws, then we can realistically "bind" God, in that we can hold Him to His honor and His word. 

I suggest that the 19th century English of the BoM may cloud, at times, the meaning of the phrase. 

God is a sovereign God, ruler and maker of the universe. He has condescended, in an act of infinite grace and mercy to enter into a covenant with His creatures. As a token and evidence of our adherence to the covenant, He requires from us to display the same traits that describe His Holiness and character as evidenced by the Savior.  And we gain access to salvation and perfection when the meaning of the covenant takes root in our heart and His meekness, lowliness of heart and love flow through us. Which is the expression of true faith. And that is the hallmark of the true followers of Christ and what is acceptable before God. Mor 7:43-48

All other renditions of the doctrine, means and elements of salvation in the scriptures have to be seen under that light. Isa 29:16 as well as Rom 9:21 express the same sentiment. We are the clay, the workmanship of His hands and can not "bind" Him or demand anything from Almighty God. Every writer, and certainly the translator, utilizes literary figures to illustrate a point but we must be wise enough to understand there is no (not can it ever be) literal meaning in that rendition. The Lord has pledged, affirmed or intent  (I suggest those are better modern descriptors for bound) to keeping His word and promises to His faithful children. But we can not bind Him or obligate Him to anything. The covenant originated with Him, out of His longsuffering, unmatched love, grace and mercy towards us. We had absolutely nothing to do with that. He has promised to bless us on account of our faithfulness. (See also Mos 2:20-24)

Surely your turning of things upside down shall be esteemed as the potter's clay: for shall the work say of him that made it, He made me not? or shall the thing framed say o

Edited March 25, 2020 by Islander
Added ref. to Mos. 2:20-24

[hope_for_things]

19 hours ago, rongo said:

Doctrine and Covenants: "I the Lord am bound when ye do what I say; but when ye do not what I say, ye have no promise." 

Our mission coat of arms included a chain to remind us to "bind the Lord with cords of righteousness." The thought that we can "bind" the Lord through obedience might offend some, but it's a true theme in the Doctrine and Covenants (e.g., all blessings are predicated on specific law, and when we obtain a blessing, it is by obeying the law upon which they are predicated). If we can obtain specific blessings by obeying specific laws, then we can realistically "bind" God, in that we can hold Him to His honor and His word. 

This was my first mission president's favorite scripture.  He used to quote it to us frequently and note it on our weekly reports.  I guess if you're trying to control a bunch of 19-21 year olds it might be an effective technique.  I would agree that Joseph also seemed to find this logic to be useful.  

I like focusing on natural laws more like in D&C 130, but don't like the focus on binding God as if we're extracting certain blessings from a deity through our performance.  I don't think this is an inspirational concept for the divine.  

[mfbukowski]

On 3/24/2020 at 9:37 PM, Hamba Tuhan said:

God is not a vending machine of blessings. He's our Father. As we seek His will, He pours out upon us individualised blessings that He understands are best for us. At least that has been my experience.

Exactly.  I really liked that vending machine analogy.

[smac97]

On 3/24/2020 at 8:39 PM, nuclearfuels said:

While my fathers were not Nephi, Lehi, et al or at all, I'm still a child of God and joint Heir of Christ, so I am wondering / hoping I might also require things of the Lord and Heavenly Father in prayer.

Have any of you taken this approach in prayer - the approach of requiring things of the Lord? Sounds kind of...heavy/presumptuous, no?

Enos 1: 18 And the Lord said unto me: Thy fathers have also required of me this thing; and it shall be done unto them according to their faith; for their faith was like unto thine.

There are various meanings/connotations for "require":

Quote

1. to have need of; need: He requires medical care.
2. to call on authoritatively; order or enjoin to do something: to require an agent to account for money spent.
3. to ask for authoritatively or imperatively; demand.
4. to impose need or occasion for; make necessary or indispensable: The work required infinite patience.
5. to call for or exact as obligatory; ordain: The law requires annual income-tax returns.
6. to place under an obligation or necessity: The situation requires me to take immediate action.
7. Chiefly British. to desire; wish to have: Will you require tea at four o'clock?

I think any meaning/connotation of "demanding" something from God is not appropriate.  Rather, I think the last definition above is the best fit.  "They fathers have also required {"desired" or "wished to have" or "requested"} of me this thing..."

On 3/24/2020 at 8:39 PM, nuclearfuels said:

D&C 82:10 {"I, the Lord, am bound when ye do what I say; but when ye do not what I say, ye have no promise."}

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/media-library/video/2010-07-066-the-lord-is-bound?lang=eng

I think this may have to do more with helping us better understand the nature of God.  He is not arbitrary.  He is perfectly just.  We can trust Him.  

Thanks,

-Smac

[Stargazer]

On 3/25/2020 at 2:39 AM, nuclearfuels said:

While my fathers were not Nephi, Lehi, et al or at all, I'm still a child of God and joint Heir of Christ, so I am wondering / hoping I might also require things of the Lord and Heavenly Father in prayer.

Have any of you taken this approach in prayer - the approach of requiring things of the Lord? Sounds kind of...heavy/presumptuous, no?

Enos 1: 18 And the Lord said unto me: Thy fathers have also required of me this thing; and it shall be done unto them according to their faith; for their faith was like unto thine.

D&C 82:10 

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/media-library/video/2010-07-066-the-lord-is-bound?lang=eng

We were taught this concept in 1972 when I was at the Language Training Mission (LTM) in Provo -- the precursor to the MTC, except only for foreign-speaking missions. I remember being specifically told that if we were having problems learning the language we were being taught we should apply to the Lord in prayer for help, reminding Him that he had called us to learn the language to do His will, and to ask him for help in doing His will -- but to ask in faith.  It made perfect sense to me, especially in light of what Nephi told his father, "I will go and do the things which the Lord hath commanded, for I know that the Lord giveth no commandments unto the children of men, save he shall prepare a way for them that they may accomplish the thing which he commandeth them." (1 Ne 3:7)

[Stargazer]

On 3/25/2020 at 5:08 AM, Tacenda said:

I never liked the scripture in Elder Bednar's talk. I don't do things to get blessings, I do things because it's the right thing to do. I wasn't big on the reward system I guess, my kids didn't grow up with it much, maybe they got the rewards from school and church teachers though. 

You're right that we should do that which is right because it is right, and not for hope of reward.

But despite not seeking a quid pro quo, if we do right we will be blessed. There's almost no way to avoid it. 

23 And now, in the first place, he hath created you, and granted unto you your lives, for which ye are indebted unto him.
24 And secondly, he doth require that ye should do as he hath commanded you; for which if ye do, he doth immediately bless you; and therefore he hath paid you. And ye are still indebted unto him, and are, and will be, forever and ever; therefore, of what have ye to boast? (Mosiah 2:23,25)

I like the notion that our ordinary activities bring their own rewards. If we are diligent in our schooling, we will become educated. If we are not, we won't.  If we do that which is wrong, frequently we are punished by the natural outcome of what we have done, regardless of any punishment God might offer -- though repentance and forgiveness is available in that case.