Update on Story Re: Missing Kids (Daybell)

[Calm]

Sorry to everyone about the long posts. No one at my home is interested and I signed up for websleuths so all of you would not have to endure it, but for some reason their board won’t let me post. And FB contains too much emotional venting per informational tidbits to get involved long enough to post. Plus I like to explain how I connect things...too long for FB unless first poster and that seems weird. 

Edited August 6, 2020 by Calm

[Tacenda]

2 hours ago, Calm said:

Sorry to everyone about the long posts. No one at my home is interested and I signed up for websleuths so all of you would not have to endure it, but for some reason their board won’t let me post. And FB contains too much emotional venting per informational tidbits to get involved long enough to post. Plus I like to explain how I connect things...too long for FB unless first poster and that seems weird. 

I appreciate your posts, because my comments outside of here fall on deaf ears or people not up to speed. So it's nice to know others like you are also interested.

[LJP]

2 hours ago, Calm said:

Sorry to everyone about the long posts. No one at my home is interested and I signed up for websleuths so all of you would not have to endure it, but for some reason their board won’t let me post. And FB contains too much emotional venting per informational tidbits to get involved long enough to post. Plus I like to explain how I connect things...too long for FB unless first poster and that seems weird. 

I ALWAYS appreciate your posts.  I look everyday to see what is posted here.  So thank you!  
 

[Calm]

That is reassuring, thank you both. 

[Calm]

No prelim for LVD, so no hearing Mon and Tues.  Means (LVD’s lawyer)probably anticipates it would just be a repeat ofCD’s, why put in the effort as if Prior couldn’t stop it, it is unlikely Means who is not a criminal defense lawyer could....especially if he did this as a flat fee or she has run out of funding.  
 

Arraignment has not been scheduled yet 
 

 

 

[Calm]

Interview with Melanie Gibb post prelim:

https://www.eastidahonews.com/2020/08/melanie-gibb-reflects-on-testifying-meeting-jjs-grandparents-and-her-message-to-chad-and-lori-daybell/

Some are put off by her mannerisms and focus, they feel she is ignoring the tragedy of the deaths of two children.  One person on WS brought up that she has one child diagnosed as autistic and she herself may be on the Autism scale. I am not that familiar with autism, but I also know that she has said she never watches news, didn’t know the term “burner phone” and her tone overall was matter of fact and not emotional in everything I have heard her speak, as if she is purposely holding herself distant or sees herself as observer of life rather than a participant. I just assumed this was due to ongoing social anxiety, but there may be other reasons.  When remembering things of the witness stand, she would pause and think for a short time as if trying to calculate or maybe use a memory place. She would not even give a month for when she talked to FBI agents, just said how often. She said she wanted to be accurate or won’t commit to it. This could be caution or a need to be precise when asked for a detail. Prior also asked a few times if she had a hearing or another problem that would interfere with understanding, but Wood objected so nothing was said. I wonder if Daybell told Prior she was different in some ways. 
 

Just thought I mention this as it may help with context. 
———

Having watched it, I get the impression she is relieved now she has survived her first time on the witness stand, I don’t see her as ignoring the deaths either. She did bring up mental illness as a possibility for CD and LVD’s behaviour which I don’t remember before. I think as time has gone on and the emotional pull/manipulation’s effect is fading, the more realistic her view is becoming. 

Edited August 7, 2020 by Calm

[Calm]

Quote

Justin Lum @jlumfox10 28s
NEW: Chandler PD lead detective on Charles Vallow death investigation says he’s “close” to submitting charges to Maricopa Co. Attorney. “Close” may be 6 months or more. 4 search warrants out for digital data linked to Lori Vallow. Conspiracy to commit murder is potential charge.
 

My memory says the same thing almost was said a month or two ago.

As long as it isn't shelved....

https://www.eastidahonews.com/2020/08/the-latest-on-charles-vallows-death-and-when-charges-could-be-filed-against-lori-daybell/?fbclid=IwAR3gCpI4b3xSmCMmQHgJ6PWkIdNnuBtmEZjtEKDcRV5WwdC3mmO92c9BZIs

Edited August 7, 2020 by Calm

[katherine the great]

19 hours ago, Calm said:

That is reassuring, thank you both. 

I appreciate your posts too--long or short. They are always very thoughtful. I watched the prelim piecemeal and I'm seeing that I did miss some of it. Was anything said about fingerprints on the duct tape? I'm starting to wonder if only Alex Cox's fingerprints were there. If Chad's prints were on it, it seems like it would be slam dunk for at least the concealment of evidence charge. 

[Calm]

They just described the collection process, not those kinds of findings.  They may still be working on it given we still don’t have results of Tammy Daybell’s autopsy.  From what I have read, it is almost impossible not to leave traces with duct tape, it picks up everything it comes in contact with and is very hard to manipulate with gloves on.  There were many layers of duct tape in some areas and I wonder if they will look at all of it to exclude any claims the duct tape belonged to Daybell, but was stolen kind of thing. 
 

Technical stuff I skipped a lot as well. Read a couple of summaries by reporters and looked at a couple of possibly key moments (such as when CD turns his head slowly and drops it down when his lawyer was asking about wearing gloves...someone suggested he had just realized he should have worn them).  I watched fully the testimony and cross examination of the welfare check guys, of Gibb (anyone interested in the case should do that imo), haven’t got through Warwick (the technical issues frustrated me, so I was waiting till more relaxed).  I will probably eventually watch all the technical stuff I skipped assuming life calms down a bit now we have a ‘go’ on my daughter’s thyroid surgery (she has been suffering trying to stabilize enough for it).  We are hoping for a date this month. Husband got in last week for a minor day surgery within two or three weeks, this is more complicated though. 

Edited August 7, 2020 by Calm

[Calm]

So responding to the above post got me listening again. I am still amused at how stereotypical this feels.  Finished Warwick’s cross and Prior continues to act like a B movie defense lawyer (the one who defends criminals, not that innocent). The jailer and the FBI lead agent, they look and act exactly how they should, nothing out of place. It is very reassuring in a way, as if this is normal instead of the total distortion of what our reality should be. 
 

Both very professional in manner, but also looks...like there was an unimaginative casting director, lol. 
 

Have listened to the phone call of right before the first body was found.  Anyone listening to that and not thinking Daybell knew exactly what was to come even without knowing he took off the moment he saw they found something...I would really like to hear their explanation for his defeated, depressed tone.  He could barely get the words out.

Daybell looks like he wants to puke after listening to that phone call when the camera shows him during Daniels’ testimony. 
 

It is also rather funny hearing such serious men seriously discussing the “ping”.  I wonder if they ever curse a little the techie guys who came up with that too cute label as disruptive to the proper court atmosphere. 

Edited August 7, 2020 by Calm

[teddyaware]

On 8/4/2020 at 10:41 AM, Calm said:

I could never see why Lori was attracted to Chad. He is nothing like her previous husbands and was broke and obligated to another woman. He wasn’t particularly attractive, rather unfit, poor fashion sense. That he was a very minor author and viewed as an authority in a small pond just didn’t seem to be enough of a draw.  However, now I believe I see what her real need was so that she was willing to make do with less than her usual in those areas and that is he fed her need to be a real authority, he went along with her claims of seeing Christ, etc. It wasn’t accusations of not being a good mother that had Lori lose it, but challenging her spiritual authority, claiming she was spiritually deceived. That is what she couldn’t stand, was definitely not prepared for it willing to try and persuade her otherwise.  Gibb hit her where it hurt with the Korihor comment, that is her weak spot imo. That shows what she values most right now, her self vision as a prophet.  The having to hide...that came across like a prepared justification for fleeing to Hawaii and refusing to tell.  The whole I will be standing by Christ when you get judged as a failure in faithfulness and getting punished for it, that was from her ‘heart.’ Imo. 
 

I think Chad gave that to her and she didn’t need the rest as much, she could stick her nose in the air knowing in the end God was her backup.  And prior to his arrest, he was spending hours a day reading scriptures with her, reassuring her all was well and there was lots of support for her outside.
 

Now it appears Chad is distancing himself. If so, how long will her confidence hold?  How dependent on him is she for that?  Did he just unlock the idea and she sailed on with or without him or does she need constant reassurance from him?

I believe it’s possible one of the reasons why Lori was attracted to Chad is Lori has been a lifelong narcissist and sociopath whose malfunctioning conscience caused her to never experience shame nor guilt when she did wrong or behaved toward others in a cruel and destructive manner. When Chad powerfully validated Lori’s deeply ingrained sense of narcissistic superiority and entitlement by asserting she is one of the preexisting very elite of heaven, someone destined for greatness on earth, he helped her to make sense of her otherwise confusing world as one who never felt the remorse of conscience typified by the truly penitent believer. With Chad’s help, she could now “comprehend” that the reason why she never had a guilty conscience and could lie without regret is because, by very nature, she is so holy and pure that she has never done anything wrong. It must be a very strange experience for a narcissistic sociopath to be so involved with intense scripture study and gospel discussions while not possessing two of the key elements (a broken heart and contrite spirit) that enable someone to become and authentic saint of God. Chad helped Lori make some “logical” sense of her crazy world.

Edited August 7, 2020 by teddyaware

[Calm]

Charles really loved LVD. This note to his lawyer is heartbreaking knowing that LVD was only doing this to ‘get his finances in order’ while he was thinking “love always wins”.

https://m.facebook.com/jlumfox10/posts/1672445322918478

[Calm]

Unofficial memorial for Tylee and JJ  on Daybell property’s fence disappeared overnight last Thursday, rumor CD’s lawyer had it removed or Daybell family members.  Neighbour right across the street has offered their property as a replacement. Hopefully the memorials previously left will turn up and are not thrown away in the dump. 
 

https://www.postregister.com/news/local/tylee-and-j-j-s-memorial-removed-from-daybell-property/article_f06a8162-6deb-5594-8def-15253158c1c4.html

https://m.facebook.com/NateEatonReporter/photos/a.233213510032189/3360143027339206/?type=3&theater

Someone who knows the daughter has said her family had been getting threats and it is possible they were nervous about having people they didn’t know so close to the house. 

Edited August 12, 2020 by Calm

[smac97]

1 hour ago, Calm said:

Unofficial memorial for Tylee and JJ  on Daybell property’s fence disappeared overnight last Thursday, rumor CD’s lawyer had it removed or Daybell family members.  Neighbour right across the street has offered their property as a replacement. Hopefully the memorials previously left will turn up and are not thrown away in the dump. 

https://www.postregister.com/news/local/tylee-and-j-j-s-memorial-removed-from-daybell-property/article_f06a8162-6deb-5594-8def-15253158c1c4.html

https://m.facebook.com/NateEatonReporter/photos/a.233213510032189/3360143027339206/?type=3&theater

Someone who knows the daughter has said her family had been getting threats and it is possible they were nervous about having people they didn’t know so close to the house. 

I can appreciate family members of Chad Daybell feeling "nervous" or otherwise not comfortable with a memorial of murdered children being put on their property when their father is a key suspect in those murders.

The neighbor's offer is a good solution.

Thanks,

-Smac

[alter idem]

On 8/4/2020 at 6:13 AM, Calm said:

It is well worth it to listen to the audio on the wellness check. (About an hour into part 3) She can lie on the fly very impressively. She gets tighter in her tone and not so social once Chad’s mane is brought up, she shuts down and stops offering all this extra info (such as she is having to move all over because her brother is trying to kill her for a two million life insurance policy...how he would benefit is never mentioned...and she is moving back to Arizona to put JJ back in his old school—-so much for being fearful for her life—-because school is too hard for him here, the principal has to drag him out of the car).  She acts clueless at the beginning of who the second guy is, only acknowledging him as a friend of her brother, says nothing when one of the officers mention he thinks Daybell’s wife died. Only info LVD offers is he is an author. 
 

She is very loud and aggressive to begin with, but at the end when the focus is on Daybell, she hardly speaks, never confirms or corrects what the officers are saying to each other.

OTOH, she goes on and on about her brother showing up at her door...her reaction is just weird if you believe she believes he is trying to kill her, as if it is trivial in one moment (what can you do when someone is being so annoying! Kind of thing) and then...just weird. Daybell being mentioned threw her, I think. Her voice is sounding more stressed, even cracking at times as if emotional, rather than just goofy. 
 

She just keeps saying “my husband passed”, nothing about him being shot or by whom. Kay and Larry are there and just rolling their eyes, shaking their heads. 
 

She claims to have canceled her $2 million life insurance policy so now there is no reason for them to kill her. She claims to have learned this from seeming the emails between Charles and Adam after Charles “passed” where they are planning all this out. 
 

Gibb’s testimony starts about 2.5 hours into part three

It was well worth the time to listen to the conversations she with investigators and also the phone conversation Melanie Gibb recorded, in getting more of a sense of just who Chad and Lori are.  They are both 'spinning' a lot of the information to their advantage.  I suspect they were both flat out lying at times.  I think Chad's children, would be interested to hear that they had 'testified' to his truthfulness.... That Garth had been there just 20 minutes after his wife's passing, that Tammy was just so sick, with a heart condition even...and still she was training for a marathon. 

I also noticed how quiet Lori got when the investigators were trying to place Chad, she did not even offer a 'yes, he writes books', but no.  Not a word to help them out.  And of course, we know she was even married to him at the time, but still offered no information, pretending he was just some friend of her brothers'.    Both of them are obviously comfortable being dishonest.

[Calm]

More to come about some connection of the Church to this case. I might get too busy to keep track of this, so posting here in case someone else wants to keep an eye out for the 6 page response from Means. Given what Means has put out in the past, I am not breathlessly waiting. 
 

https://mobile.twitter.com/AdamHerbets/status/1294050073534373889

added:  yep, not impressed

https://www.eastidahonews.com/2020/08/lori-vallow-daybells-attorney-issues-response-to-lds-first-presidency-letter/

(this is discussed on the thread about the letter to a certain extent)

Edited August 14, 2020 by Calm

[Calm]

Some Saints are posting in the venues I frequent an interpretation that lines up with past behaviour of the Church and some are accepting it as from those who should know (members of the church) and others blowing it off as they don't trust church leaders.  IOW, pretty typical response to anything noteworthy about the Church.

The prosecutor has responded he doesn't think the letter was related to his case.

https://mobile.twitter.com/AdamHerbets/status/1294366265453105152

[Tacenda]

This is going around. I wonder if this would be a problem. Someone required to come to court and testify, but having had the church's legal counsel, would their answers reflect that, and in keeping with making sure the church doesn't come under condemnation or the church in a bad light. I see how Means might feel about this. In the past I've seen quotes about past leaders lying for the Lord, don't know if true or not. ETA: In this Fairmormon article, there are some instances where lying or telling a white lie, my words, is in order. https://www.fairmormon.org/answers/Mormonism_and_church_integrity/"Lying_for_the_Lord"

 In the video she mentions a mistrial could happen, Means could use this as a reason. That would be the absolute worst thing that could happen. I hope the church figures out a way to retract that letter to reflect better.

 

Edited August 16, 2020 by Tacenda

[katherine the great]

On 8/13/2020 at 5:50 PM, Calm said:

added:  yep, not impressed

https://www.eastidahonews.com/2020/08/lori-vallow-daybells-attorney-issues-response-to-lds-first-presidency-letter/

(this is discussed on the thread about the letter to a certain extent)

It sounds like Means is purposely misrepresenting the letter. I interpret the letter as referring specifically to leaders and their interactions with (only) members directly under their stewardship. Certainly not to any church member's interaction with other members. He presents it as if 25% of all Idaho citizens might recuse themselves from the trial simply because they are members of record. It's ridiculous!

[Calm]

Chad Daybell’s sister-in-law, Heather Daybell...she briefly mentions family issues in a letter discussing an apostle’s talk.  The Stake President apparently asked her in her role of Stake RS President to promote the talk to the wards.  She added some personal comments and likely emailed it to the ward RS presidents and then one of the ward leaders passed it on to all the women in her ward along with some of her own comments.

Most likely someone in the ward then leaked it to CourtTV and people hearing about it are being confused over what the letter is and who it was sent to, thinking she is doing her own version of public appeal with scriptures in hopes of making herself or the Church look good and condemning her for it when it was nothing of the kind  

https://mobile.twitter.com/ChanleyCourtTV/status/1295930259670433793

If an easier to read version shows up feel free to post it. 
 

This is the wife of the brother, Matt, who spoke out trying to get Chad to cooperate many months ago. 
 

https://www.eastidahonews.com/2020/01/chad-daybells-brother-issues-statement-pleading-for-him-to-come-forward-and-cooperate-with-investigation/

Matt and Heather issues a statement when the kids were found:

https://www.eastidahonews.com/2020/06/chad-daybells-brother-tylee-ryans-aunt-issue-statements/?fbclid=IwAR2QZh9xK_bKprMyAb3teUXjOxl0j38mUWnJjL8PwEDFCuVTPWcic_5r1Y0

Edited August 19, 2020 by Calm

[Calm]

Just FYI:

https://www.eastidahonews.com/2020/08/inside-the-fbi-lab-that-processed-daybells-devices-and-other-electronic-evidence/?fbclid=IwAR15kR00DNNDFiUPIDTqAug2zsSBkt_T0FqnkZl9h8cdVt5jHIJqjP8sIoM

[alter idem]

On 8/16/2020 at 8:26 AM, Tacenda said:

This is going around. I wonder if this would be a problem. Someone required to come to court and testify, but having had the church's legal counsel, would their answers reflect that, and in keeping with making sure the church doesn't come under condemnation or the church in a bad light. I see how Means might feel about this. In the past I've seen quotes about past leaders lying for the Lord, don't know if true or not. ETA: In this Fairmormon article, there are some instances where lying or telling a white lie, my words, is in order. https://www.fairmormon.org/answers/Mormonism_and_church_integrity/"Lying_for_the_Lord"

 In the video she mentions a mistrial could happen, Means could use this as a reason. That would be the absolute worst thing that could happen. I hope the church figures out a way to retract that letter to reflect better.

 

There is nothing wrong with the church asking someone who becomes involved in a legal issue, because of their position in the church, to consult with the church legal department, and I'm quite certain this is not new, it was a reminder,  but Lori's attorney is apparently trying to poison the well.  And if Means is an honest attorney, he knows this is wise counsel, but he's trying to spin it to help his client.  From what I've seen of Lori Vallow's behavior, she is unscrupulous and I suspect she was looking for the kind of lawyer who will work to get her free, by any means necessary, IMO.

[Calm]

Pled not guilty as expected. 
https://www.eastidahonews.com/2020/08/chad-daybell-pleads-not-guilty-jury-trial-set-for-january/

Quote

The jury trial is scheduled to run from Jan. 11 to 29, in Fremont County. A pretrial conference is set for Dec. 10.

Daybell is the husband of Lori Vallow Daybell, the mother of 7-year-old Joshua “JJ” Vallow and 16-year-old Tylee Ryan. The bodies of the children were found in June buried on Chad Daybell’s property.

Since his arrest on June 9, Daybell has been held in the Fremont County Jail on $1 million bail. Earlier this month, he sat in court for his preliminary hearing in which investigators, friends and other witnesses testified. 

Lori Daybell is also charged in Fremont County with two felony counts of conspiracy to commit destruction, alteration, or concealment of evidence. She is scheduled to be arraigned on Sept. 10 before District Judge Dane H. Watkins Jr. 

Prior now has 60 days to file a motion if he wants to move the trial to another venue. If convicted of all charges, Daybell could face up to 20 years in prison and $40,000 in fines.

 

Daybell looks a little shorter and thinner. Apparently it is not uncommon to have defendants lower their chair some so they look less threatening. I need to check as I remember him being the same height as his lawyer before. Thinner could be due to a bigger shirt, again for the purpose of making him less threatening or the lack of between meal snacks for nervous eating.  Maybe his chair is pulled a little further back so the camera shrinks him a bit in comparison to his lawyer.

I miss Judge Eddins (sp?).  I liked his delivery, it was easier to listen to, less monotonish.  Hopefully otherwise, this is a great judge. We will see. 
 

added: found another zoom hearing for Daybell, he is sitting back from the table again, but using the lines of the brick behind them, he looks an inch or two taller  than his attorney. That doesn’t mean he actually is, just it is likely the chair is lower this time, intentional or not. He is not wearing a white shirt so size is confusing. 
 

Found a video where he and his lawyer are standing for the judge, he is at least 3 inches, maybe even 4 or 5 inches taller than Prior. I was shocked at how much taller he is. I think they have definitely adjusted the chair if not before, at least this time. 

Edited August 22, 2020 by Calm

[alter idem]

39 minutes ago, Calm said:

Pled not guilty as expected. 
https://www.eastidahonews.com/2020/08/chad-daybell-pleads-not-guilty-jury-trial-set-for-january/

 

Daybell looks a little shorter and thinner. Apparently it is not uncommon to have defendants lower their chair some so they look less threatening. I need to check as I remember him being the same height as his lawyer before. Thinner could be due to a bigger shirt, again for the purpose of making him less threatening or the lack of between meal snacks for nervous eating.  Maybe his chair is pulled a little further back so the camera shrinks him a bit in comparison to his lawyer.

I miss Judge Eddins (sp?).  I liked his delivery, it was easier to listen to, less monotonish.  Hopefully otherwise, this is a great judge. We will see. 

Yep, the trial is set for January and expected to go three weeks. I bet he's back to losing weight as he's not able to eat how he normally would, especially when under stress. Probably low calorie, 'healthy' hospital type meals, and maybe fruit as a snack. I don't think I'd like jail.

[Calm]

32 minutes ago, alter idem said:

Yep, the trial is set for January and expected to go three weeks. I bet he's back to losing weight as he's not able to eat how he normally would, especially when under stress. Probably low calorie, 'healthy' hospital type meals, and maybe fruit as a snack. I don't think I'd like jail.

I go for small frequent meals and the only thing for breakfast I really like that makes me not feel instantly tired is eggs or toasted naan and almond butter. Since I am currently using eggs a lot for dinner (chronic fatigue does not lead to much variety in cooking for me and scrambled eggs are better for me than frozen pizzas), it is pretty much almond butter every morning. 
 

Somehow I don’t think I would get that request in jail. 
 

Dang, I doubt if I could get my obligatory fresh basil and thyme for my eggs either. 
 

Guess I will just have to forego the jail experience. 

Edited August 22, 2020 by Calm