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Update on Story Re: Missing Kids (Daybell)


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2 minutes ago, Calm said:

Given she didn't say all that when she saw the adulterous behaviour in person for months on end and even suggested they get a divorce, didn't confront LVD when she accused her kids of being zombies, and only shifted when asked to lie about where JJ was....I wouldn't go so far as that imo.

Well, at least she is improving.  In particular, I enjoyed her willingness to compare Lori and Chad to Korihor.  Followed by an excellent theological dispute.

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Haven’t listened to it yet, just read the play by play by reporters.

Couple of new things...

Gibb did originally lie to police in that she said JJ had been with her, but that LVD had come and taken him back. She later told LE she had lied. 
 

LVD stated that Alex Cox did not know where her kids were, but she knew and knew they were safe. (This was long after their deaths).  Claimed she had to hide the kids because Kay was trying to kidnap JJ. This was after telling Gibb she was gave JJ to Kay, even said she had told Kay she had breast cancer so Kay would take JJ. 
 

CD claimed that his wife Tammy has been sick for awhile and refusing to go to the doctor’s ( false as she was in training for a marathon as well as reports by others).  He also claims one of his children was there when she died (very different from his claim he woke up with her dead in the morning).

LVD claimed her other brother, Adam Cox, was in league with Charles to kill her for her $1/2 million life insurance.

I believe CD claims he knows where the kids are on the phone call, need to doublecheck. 
 

Most of those who watched the hearing on websleuths are of the opinion CD is distancing himself from LVD. Prior, his lawyer, is insisting on calling her Ms Vallow and Chad is not wearing a wedding ring. Since he already pretended he hardly knew her shortly after they were married, this doesn’t surprise me in the least. 

Edited by Calm
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Play by play of Gibb and LVD’s phone call:

https://mobile.twitter.com/cathyrusson 
 

not sure how to pinpoint it, starts at here, I believe and then scroll up for entire hearing recap: not working so far

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Try this, hopefully it will show all of them that follow it and not just it allow (scroll up, not down):

https://twitter.com/cathyrusson/status/1290302370467835905?s=20

It doesn’t...anyone who can figure out how to include a link to a series of tweets, please let us know. 

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It is well worth it to listen to the audio on the wellness check. (About an hour into part 3) She can lie on the fly very impressively. She gets tighter in her tone and not so social once Chad’s mane is brought up, she shuts down and stops offering all this extra info (such as she is having to move all over because her brother is trying to kill her for a two million life insurance policy...how he would benefit is never mentioned...and she is moving back to Arizona to put JJ back in his old school—-so much for being fearful for her life—-because school is too hard for him here, the principal has to drag him out of the car).  She acts clueless at the beginning of who the second guy is, only acknowledging him as a friend of her brother, says nothing when one of the officers mention he thinks Daybell’s wife died. Only info LVD offers is he is an author. 
 

She is very loud and aggressive to begin with, but at the end when the focus is on Daybell, she hardly speaks, never confirms or corrects what the officers are saying to each other.

OTOH, she goes on and on about her brother showing up at her door...her reaction is just weird if you believe she believes he is trying to kill her, as if it is trivial in one moment (what can you do when someone is being so annoying! Kind of thing) and then...just weird. Daybell being mentioned threw her, I think. Her voice is sounding more stressed, even cracking at times as if emotional, rather than just goofy. 
 

She just keeps saying “my husband passed”, nothing about him being shot or by whom. Kay and Larry are there and just rolling their eyes, shaking their heads. 
 

She claims to have canceled her $2 million life insurance policy so now there is no reason for them to kill her. She claims to have learned this from seeming the emails between Charles and Adam after Charles “passed” where they are planning all this out. 
 

Gibb’s testimony starts about 2.5 hours into part three

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I suspect Gibb recorded the phone conversation because she was now in a very tight spot having become essentially an accomplice to whatever CD and LVD had done with the kids. She needed proof for the police she had only lied that once and had no previous involvement. If she hadn’t recorded it, given the absence of Tylee when she had visited and her lack of any action or expressed concern to others apparently and the fact JJ was likely killed on the last day of her visit possibly in the same apartment she was in, her involvement would have been much more questionable, similar to what is being speculated about Melani Pawlowski now. 
 

Chad answers “Hello, sweet Melanie”. Flashing back to speculation he flirted with her in the past, along with many other women. Instant repulsion hearing it in this context. 
 

LvD is obviously not prepared.  There are no glib details flowing off her tongue. There are silences where she isn’t answering. She finds some confidence by falling into a teacher/student format about the scriptures. Given both their responses, it sound like one they are both very familiar with, including the details of the story. They have probably discussed at length in the past Alma’s response, probably as part of what they were expecting to do in the future when society collapses or targeted the righteous.  The phrases used by Melanie are set pieces like one would repeat in Sunday School having heard others say them many times. 

LVD didn’t run off her mouth lying easily this time.  She was struggling to come up with something to say.  I am guessing she knew Gibb knew too much to try the usual distractive, too much info patter on her, so she just kept repeating her vague accusations of Kay was trying to kidnap JJ.  I wish Gibb had asked her why she hadn’t sent JJ to live with Kay like she had told her she was going to do.

Once she realizes Gibb is not buying her prophet in hiding routine (the only thing she had down pat this time around), she instantly goes into paranoia...Gibb is now friends with those who are against her, Gibb is going to be held accountable for the teachings she is now rejecting, she can’t believe Gibb of all people has failed her trust, etc.  LVD accuses Gibb of acting like an authority, Iow she accuses Gibb of trying to usurp LVD’s god given authority. I think LVD has convinced herself that by reading scriptures constantly and other things that she sees God and therefore whatever she does is right and whoever disagrees with her is with Satan, etc. 

CD otoh, seemed much more aware of the big picture and coherent and intent on trying to persuade rather than browbeat with guilt and fear. He ‘testified’ that Tammy was growing weaker and weaker and had heart problems and was refusing to go to the doctors, said his kids would back him up. He assumed Gibb had talked to his sister-in-law who he was claiming was spreading lies about him. 

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I could never see why Lori was attracted to Chad. He is nothing like her previous husbands and was broke and obligated to another woman. He wasn’t particularly attractive, rather unfit, poor fashion sense. That he was a very minor author and viewed as an authority in a small pond just didn’t seem to be enough of a draw.  However, now I believe I see what her real need was so that she was willing to make do with less than her usual in those areas and that is he fed her need to be a real authority, he went along with her claims of seeing Christ, etc. It wasn’t accusations of not being a good mother that had Lori lose it, but challenging her spiritual authority, claiming she was spiritually deceived. That is what she couldn’t stand, was definitely not prepared for it willing to try and persuade her otherwise.  Gibb hit her where it hurt with the Korihor comment, that is her weak spot imo. That shows what she values most right now, her self vision as a prophet.  The having to hide...that came across like a prepared justification for fleeing to Hawaii and refusing to tell.  The whole I will be standing by Christ when you get judged as a failure in faithfulness and getting punished for it, that was from her ‘heart.’ Imo. 
 

I think Chad gave that to her and she didn’t need the rest as much, she could stick her nose in the air knowing in the end God was her backup.  And prior to his arrest, he was spending hours a day reading scriptures with her, reassuring her all was well and there was lots of support for her outside.
 

Now it appears Chad is distancing himself. If so, how long will her confidence hold?  How dependent on him is she for that?  Did he just unlock the idea and she sailed on with or without him or does she need constant reassurance from him?

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Does bringing up Alma and King Noah, possibly turn non LDS away from the church? And also that Chad and Lori's believing in the church, can that hurt the church? In fact Chad's lawyer seems to be making them both look bad sometimes. Or he has something in mind, that I don't know about.

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EIN has excellent highly detailed summaries (JAHS’ link for today and this for yesterday)

https://www.eastidahonews.com/2020/08/detectives-byu-i-dean-melanie-gibb-take-the-stand-during-first-day-of-chad-daybells-preliminary-hearing/
 

From JAHS’ link;

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9:50 a.m. Prior asking Melanie about the places where Lori Vallow has lived and when/if Chad has lived with her at different locations. Prior suggests Alex had a habit of following Lori wherever she went.

 

Sounds like Prior is pushing it on Alex and LVD (assuming Chad did not live with her before kids were killed).

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Prior asks David if Melanie has any hearing or auditory processing disorders but Wood objects to the question so David cannot answer...

Prior asks David he has ever had any problems understanding conversations. David says sometimes but he asks for clarification.

Wondering where he is going with this.  Claiming she misunderstood CD’s request not to answer the phone?

Edited by Calm
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11:05 a.m. Recess is over. Phone call between Chad and Lori is played again from the beginning. This was recorded as police were searching Chad’s property and the remains of the children were found. Chad says to Lori, “They’re searching the property.” Lori says, “The house right now?” He says yes, and then says, “Mark Means will be talking to you.” Means is her attorney. Chad says they are “out on the property” and Lori asks if they are seizing stuff. Chad says they are searching and have a search warrant. He says “we’ll see what transpires” and Lori asks Chad what she can do for him. Chad responds, “I’m feeling pretty calm. I would call Mark (her attorney) though and talk with him.” Chad says he spoke with Mark and then says, “I love you so much.” She asks Chad if she should try to call him later and he says, “I don’t know.” Chad says, “I love you and we’ll talk soon.” Lori says, “I love you baby” and the call ends.

10:45 a.m. Phone call between Chad and Lori Daybell on June 9 now being played. Chad says to Lori, “They’re searching the property.” Lori says, “The house right now?” He says yes, and then says, “Mark Means will be talking to you.” Means is her attorney. Chad says they are “out on the property” and Lori asks if they are seizing stuff. Chad says they are searching and have a search warrant. They both sound sad and somber. Judge asks for a short recess to try and fix the audio issue.

10:40 a.m. Willmore explaining how the Telmate system works and that all calls are recorded. Willmore says he accessed calls made by Lori Vallow for the prosecutor’s office and he listened to the calls. Willmore talking about a phone call made by Lori Vallow to Chad Daybell on June 9 around 11 a.m. This was the same day police were at Daybell’s house.

 

Hmmm....sounds like he wants to tell her something through Means

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From the previous day;

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Hermosillo says in early November, he was asked to seize a Jeep by the Gilbert Police Department that was in Lori Vallow’s possession. He was asked to do a welfare check on Nov. 25, 2019 on Joshua Jackson “JJ” Vallow. Hermosillo says he has never met JJ or Tylee Ryan.

Rexburg police were first aware of Vallow due to the Brandon Boudreaux shooting it looks like.

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9:35 a.m. Hermosillo asked Chad Daybell when he last saw JJ. Daybell said he saw the child in Apt. 107 (Alex Cox’s home) in October. Hermosillo asked Chad for Lori’s phone number. Chad told Hermosillo he didn’t have it. Hermosillo thought that was odd because the knew they had a close relationship. Chad said he only knew Lori because they had met a couple times through Alex Cox. A few minutes later, Chad gave Hermosillo Lori’s phone number. When Hermosillo asked why he didn’t provide the number earlier, Chad said it was because it sounded like he was being accused of something...

11:25 a.m. Prior asks Hermosillo about his conversation with Chad Daybell on Nov. 26 – asks if it possible Chad said he didn’t know Lori as well as Alex. Hermosillo says that’s not possible. Prior asks Hermosillo if he recalls every single date and time in the investigation. Hermosillo says no.

CD does not handle pressure well...at least then. Maybe he has more self control now. I will be surprised if Prior puts him on the stand.  However, if he has to testify inLVD’s trial, we may get to hear from him. 

Prior appears to be attempting to soften the lie...but CD was married to LVD at the time, so don’t see the option as all that helpful. 

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Hermosillo says Lori and Chad never called the Rexburg Police to report missing children. Chad never returned any calls from police and Lori never answered her phone. They obtained an attorney and refused to answer any questions, according to Hermosillo.

 Not a good look when missing children are involved. I anticipate Prior will argue LVD convinced CD that police were in cahoots with Kay in trying to kidnap JJ....assuming he is going to argue CD didn’t know kids were dead. Don’t know what the explanation would be if admitting he knew...fear for his life?

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11:50 a.m. Prior asking about the homes near Chad Daybell’s property. Hermosillo says there is a residence kiddy-corner from the Daybell’s residence – where Emma Daybell, Chad’s daughter, lived at one point. Prior states there are 5 residences around the Daybell property

What is his point?  For others having possible access or their ability to observe?

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2:00 p.m. From Stubbs body camera: Lori says she is a “good person” and everyone is causing her trouble right now. Lori says Kay got $1 million when Charles died and Lori didn’t get anything. Lori says her daughter goes to BYUI and Lori is going to go back to Arizona so JJ can go to a school that’s better for his behavioral issue. 

Police tell Lori they are concerned for the child and Lori says she feels like she’s being tracked all the time. Lt. Ball says two detectives came earlier and were talking with two guys. Lori says it was her brother, Alex Cox, and Alex’s friend, Chad Daybell.

Lori says she’s sorry people are constantly knocking at her door and she doesn’t want to be found. She says her brother from Kansas is trying to kill her and he showed up at her Rexburg home. Lori says she’s moving back to Arizona to live with her friend Melanie. She also says she canceled her insurance policy and has no money.

From yesterday:

It is all about her, imo. Outside of JJ having a hard time at school, LVD makes the conversation about herself. The whole ‘I raised 5 kids and got nothing’ was angry, imo,and from the way Charles’ sons described her ‘caring’ where she would take off for the day plus some of the stuff I read in the custody case, her ‘care’ of his two sons was poor at best, abusive at worst at times.  She is speaking as if Kay somehow managed to change the policy rather thanCharles. No mention of any conflict in the marriage iirc.

I had missed this before, Gibb did ask about the change:

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Melanie asks Lori about what happened to JJ going to be with Kay. Lori says, “Well, I had to move him somewhere else because of her actions.”

 

Melanie asks if she needs to be in danger of knowing where JJ is. Lori says “it’s a danger of people being after her.” Chad says if Melanie knew where JJ was, it would “put her in a bad position.”

What those actions were besides threats to kidnap (by saying she wasn’t going to kidnap them) isn’t specified. The tone when Gibb suggests that LVD is protecting her from being in danger...I got the impression that LVD didn’t want to share the drama, Gibb is not in danger; LVD said it is about people being after her, not Gibb; Chad steps in and makes it about not wanting to put Gibb in a bad position, I am guessing having to lie or being interrogated.  
 

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Melanie asks why Lori told the police that JJ was with her (Melanie). Lori said most of her family is working against her with Kay.

Iirc, Gibb actually mentions the dad (Barry Cox), but LVD keeps it general outside of Adam. Wonder how Mom andSister feel when they hear this.  So much for LVD protecting them, instead it was a lack of trust.

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. Lori says she doesn’t know why Alex would say that. Lori says she didn’t even want Alex to know where he was

Going to make it harder for LVD to claim Alex did it on his own, but also contradicts his involvement. Looks more to me like again LVD is making it all about her. She is the one in danger, she is the one in the know.  Others are bit players to her drama.

Edited by Calm
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51 minutes ago, Calm said:

From yesterday:

It is all about her, imo. Outside of JJ having a hard time at school, LVD makes the conversation about herself. The whole ‘I raised 5 kids and got nothing’ was angry, imo,and from the way Charles’ some described her ‘career where she would take off for the day plus some of the stuff I read in the custody case, her ‘care’ of his two sons was poor at best, abusive at worst at times.  She is speaking as if Kay somehow managed to change the policy rather thanCharles. No mention of any conflict in the marriage iirc.

I had missed this before, Gibb did ask about the change:

What those actions were besides threats to kidnap (by saying she wasn’t going to kidnap them) isn’t specified. The tone when Gibb suggests that LVD is protecting her from being in danger...I got the impression that LVD didn’t want to share the drama, Gibb is not in danger; LVD said it is about people being after her, not Gibb; Chad steps in and makes it about not wanting to put Gibb in a bad position, I am guessing having to lie or being interrogated.  
 

Iirc, Gibb actually mentions the dad (Barry Cox), but LVD keeps it general outside of Adam. Wonder how Mom andSister feel when they hear this.  So much for LVD protecting them, instead it was a lack of trust.

Going to make it harder for LVD to claim Alex did it on his own, but also contradicts his involvement. Looks more to me like again LVD is making it all about her. She is the one in danger, she is the one in the know.  Others are bit players to her drama.

Oh yeah! She's a classic narcissist! 

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From discussion on websleuths (I am just reading summaries today so far), it would appear Prior is attempting to lay blame of deaths and/or coverup on Alex...pushing for an overly close relationship with his sister, Lori, to the point of quitting his job to move up to live in same apartment complex...and having him bury the kids on Daybell’s property out of anger/revenge for Daybell monopolizing/marrying his sister.  Thus Prior is emphasizing that LE did not search the whole grounds and could have missed a dead raccoon (needed to back up CD’s text to Tammy).

However, on the day and time Alex’s phone pings on CD’s property, CD texts his wife, Tammy, he is at home in backyard. 
 

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2:35 p.m. Dean now reading the text message exchange between Chad and Tammy on Sept. 9 about Chad saying he shot a raccoon on the property. More on the messages here. Dean says the first message Chad sent to Tammy was unusual as most of the messages between the two were very short. Dean says this was the first message from Chad to Tammy where Chad explained something about his day that was so detailed. Dean also noticed the date was Sept. 9 – the same timeframe that the FBI had inquired the public for videos and photos from Yellowstone. Dean also knew Tylee Ryan was last seen alive the day before – Sept. 8. After reviewing the messages, Dean relayed the information to the case agents. Judge calls for a recess. Court will resume at 2:50 p.m.


 

As expected, bound over for trial.  Arraignment is Aug 21 before Judge Steven Boyce.

https://www.eastidahonews.com/2020/08/chad-daybell-case-advances-to-district-court-after-2-day-preliminary-hearing/

Edited by Calm
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From the second link, something that is bugging me. Inside Brackets is me.

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Lori Daybell
“That’s been after me for zero reason, besides the darkness of Kay, which you already know, [confident Gibb will agree] she’s dark.”

Melanie Gibb
“I haven’t met her enough to know if she’s dark or not. I’ve just met her slightly and she seemed like a normal kind of person, but then I haven’t engaged with her that much. So I don’t know that personally.”

Lori Daybell
“So you don’t know about her changing the things for herself to be the beneficiary of the policy and also none of that’s dark[,] right.” [LVD is being disbelievingly sarcastic here, it is not a real question; however, Gibb is simply saying what she means]

Melanie Gibb
“Well, I haven’t seen those documents so I have no way of knowing.”

Lori Daybell
“You’ve seen them on my computer.” [statement of fact in her view]

Melanie Gibb
“No, I have not. I haven’t even looked on your computer before. You haven’t showed me anything.”

Lori Daybell [angry indignation and suspicion comes out because she thinks Gibb is now lying about seeing the documents]
“I don’t know why you’re being controversial to me or if you’re recording this conversation for the police or whatever, I don’t know what your intention is on this phone call.”

You need to listen to understand my focus, it is LVD’s tone...she sounds a bit baffled and very indignant when Gibb insists she hasn’t seen any documents on LVD’s computer. It is at that point she shifts from seeing Gibb as an ally to an enemy, imo. She instantly becomes paranoid and assumes Gibb is recording for the police.  She now assumes Gibb has a hidden agenda rather than just seeking reassurance or direction. 

It seems in the past LVD hadn’t had to work hard to persuade or reassure Gibb, she isn’t bothering to put any creativity into her explanations as she did with police.

So what is it that triggers her instant distrust?  Why does Gibb saying she hasn’t been shown anything in terms of documents so throw LVD?

1)  Maybe Gibb is lying.  She admits in court one of the purposes of the recording was to establish her innocence. Here LVD says Gibb has seen something, documents on her computer...maybe those documents contain info that would place anyone aware of them who hadn’t shared them with police in a suspicious position.  So Gibb denies all knowledge of them.  LVD knows she’s lying and quickly understands why.

2) There are documents that show what LVD says they show (Kay making herself beneficiary), but LVD is confused to whom she showed them.  Perhaps she showed them to her sister, Summer, or possibly Melani P.  So neither are lying, but LVD assumes Gibb is and therefore turns on her.

3) LVD has shown Gibb what she believes is proof that Kay changed the beneficiary as well as her intent to kidnap JJ. But we have one example given of what she considers evidence of intent to kidnap:  Kay says “It’s not like I am going to kidnap them”.  LVD seems to read that as some sort of coded threat.  Could not the same thing have happened with the beneficiary info, either info from the company or Kay saying Kay was appointed by Charles as his beneficiary and LVD reads that as code that Kay changed it herself?  What is the ultimate proof Kay changed things in LVD’s mind?  Kay is the beneficiary.

After all LVD had tried to do the same herself, she was the original beneficiary apparently and she actively changed the passwords so that Charles could not get access to change it (didn’t work).  If LVD sees that sort of thing as acceptable practice, why wouldn’t she see Kay as doing the same thing.

So Gibb is correct she hadn’t seen documents that prove anything, on the computer or not.  She has at most seen documents that LVD claims or thinks is proof on her paranoia.  Against that idea is why didn’t Gibb say she saw documents, but they didn’t say what LVD thinks they say?  However, Gibb doesn’t challenge LVD on things like that.  She lets stand that claim that Kay saying I am not going to kidnap them is evidence of intent to kidnap.

4) is really a combo of 2 and 3...what LVD has told Gibb is her proof just isn’t and Gibb realizes it even if she doesn’t dissect it for LVD AND Gibb isn’t lying when she has said she hasn’t ever looked at LVD’s computer. LVD is simply confused over who she showed it to or has rewritten the story in her head of how it should have gone down and like choosing to see Kay’s words as saying the opposite, her fantasy becomes her reality. 
 

After having listened to her confidence and having had that “cheery” confidence reported by Gibb and seen/heard it in the phone calls and police interviews, I do see LVD as believing her own claims these days, her lies become her reality.  Her brain is likely very good at grabbing onto some little event and blowing it up into elaborate justification.  Maybe Adam showed up at her door when she moved to Idaho out of concern for her and her kids, she translates that into an elaborate scheme to kill her for her life insurance policy (it is unlikely he is beneficiary, so how would that benefit him? She never explains).

I think she likely used the process to justify the murders of her kids, they were safe and happy like Tammy was happy starting her special mission beyond the veil. The deaths of their bodies protected them from the zombies, protected them from Adam and the rest of her family who might have legal custody of the kids in the case of her death and Kay, who would find it easier to kidnap or persuade the Coxes to give her JJ if LVD was dead. 
 

I am building all this on that moment of shock and indignation when Gibb finally disagrees with her. I see that as a real feeling and not some pretend act. LVD really thinks she has shown some proof to Gibbs. I assume she is not pretending because if she is coherent enough to come up with the act as a way to persuade Gibb to change her mind, I think she would go a different route, exactly what...I need to spend more time studying her past behaviours and any long term developments that show how she is loosening up her grasp on reality along the lines of what Charles said. 
 

Nice, I am about to fall sleep. Hopefully that made sense by the end of it when I started phrasing in and out. Night all. 

Edited by Calm
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@Calmsleep well!!

Just want to say I think they are all wackadoo's! borrowing this word my sister said the other day, that fits. But yes, Melanie Gibb, isn't so innocent!!

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I find it interesting that Lori and Chad mentioned to Melanie that she has been darkened by her boyfriend, David Warwick.  I don’t know why that stuns me but it feels incredibly self righteous.  Chad and Lori are the dark souls.  How could they have been deceived to the point of murder.  I just shake my head in disbelief.  I bet Melanie was concerned for her life.  

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9 hours ago, LJP said:

I find it interesting that Lori and Chad mentioned to Melanie that she has been darkened by her boyfriend, David Warwick.  I don’t know why that stuns me but it feels incredibly self righteous.  Chad and Lori are the dark souls.  How could they have been deceived to the point of murder.  I just shake my head in disbelief.  I bet Melanie was concerned for her life.  

Yes, the attempt to shame her into submission rather than treating her as an intelligent equal is arrogant, but I am guessing at that point they have no other tools. Maybe if they were in person, LVD could do her overwhelming with love routine that Gibb has spoken about, but it is easier to resist when it is done through a phone and sounds like empty phrases. 
 

There is speculation there was competition in CD’s mind at least with David Warwick. If David Warwick was becoming more popular, Daybell could have seen him as a rival and LVD likely would have seen him as a threat to her own status.  Thus they would have painted him as dark to Gibb. 
 

However, it could be just as simple as he didn’t see the more extreme stuff as truth and spoke out against it. He also has visions and as far as I know teaches the same basic stuff, I don’t know enough about him to judge if he gets into the extremism or not. 

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On 8/4/2020 at 12:18 PM, Calm said:


Prior appears to be attempting to soften the lie...but CD was married to LVD at the time, so don’t see the option as all that helpful. 

 Not a good look when missing children are involved. I anticipate Prior will argue LVD convinced CD that police were in cahoots with Kay in trying to kidnap JJ....assuming he is going to argue CD didn’t know kids were dead. Don’t know what the explanation would be if admitting he knew...fear for his life?

What is his point?  For others having possible access or their ability to observe?

I was having a hard time understanding Prior's point throughout the entire hearing. I was very put off by his entire demeanor and I couldn't help but wonder if he's just completely in over his head.

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1 hour ago, katherine the great said:

I was having a hard time understanding Prior's point throughout the entire hearing. I was very put off by his entire demeanor and I couldn't help but wonder if he's just completely in over his head.

I think what he is trying to establish is that it was all Alex Cox and Lori Vallow (notice he never calls her Lori or Mrs. Daybell and while Daybell made an effort to correct Prior twice on mistaken names——Gibb instead of Gibbs and Pillar instead of Gilbert——and was otherwise oh so helpful in adjusting the microphone, etc, Daybell never leans over as if to tell him to say Mrs. Daybell instead of Vallow. Given how insistent LVD was that she be called Daybell, this is imo a slap in her face. I hope she is watching this and sees how clearly this means she is being thrown under the bus by Daybell. 
 

Prior’s likely version...
 

1) At this point iirc Gibb is the sole witness for any affair between CD and LVD. LVD is the one who bought all the wedding stuff. Gibb is the one who describes the hand holding, etc at the BYU track and other behaviour at LVD’s place in Arizona as well as the two meeting. If Prior can discredit her memory and bias enough (when things happened, if things happened), much of the evidence of a prior romantic relationship outside of LVD’s mind disappears.  Gibb has said CD would teach LVD privately and then LVD would share it with the group. If Melani P, the niece, also heard the extreme stuff from LVD, and Chad didn’t share this stuff with anyone else or Prior is certain no one will admit to being a follower of Daybell to this level, that could create reasonable doubt about the crazy...that Daybell believed along with LVD and AxC that the world wouldn’t notice the affair and deaths because of the disasters they expected to show up. 
 

Iirc, the only damaging direct evidence of ‘romance’ outside of the beliefs of being married in past lives is the video of CD patting LVD’s butt. Prior could claim Daybell was being playful, not sexual and everything else is just him being helpful and then a lonely, heartbroken man trying to make positive sense of his life falling into the black widow’s trap after his wife died.
 

2) Prior stresses Alex Cox and LVD have an unusually close relationship to the point he quits his job to follow her up to Rexburg.  That he was also always babysitting for her was one of the points Prior tried to establish through Gibb. He made the point that AxC was always in and out of LVD’s place. 


AxC appears to be willing to do anything for her. I have little doubt the attack on Joe Ryan will be brought up as well as LVD screaming at AxC in the street sometime in the beginning of 2019 shaming him for failing the family. And of course the killing, likely murder of Charles Vallow.

3) Prior made a point that there was no ash in the burial area. I am guessing he intends to suggest the burning of Tylee was done elsewhere, that ash would have clung to her body or otherwise have spread from the fire pit to the burial site if the body was freshly burned when buried as opposed to being burned elsewhere and then hurriedly buried when Daybell was not there. Prior may even claim that AxC knowingly kept his phone on during a visit with Daybell the next day while he turned it off or left it at home when he was actually burying bodies.  
 

Prior is appearing to use the possibility of a raccoon to explain Daybell’s presence in the area of the graves. He made the point that LE did not dig up the whole yard so they cannot say for sure there wasn’t a raccoon there. And now that time has passed without the yard being under guard, Prior might claim that someone removed it to make CD look bad. 
 

Leads to....

So speculation is Prior is setting up Alex as Alex is trying to set up Daybell as his fall guy or conspirator, likely out of jealousy that Daybell has become LVD’s number one instead of him.   Another possibility is the kids’ bodies on CD’s property means he can never leave LVD, the knowledge he will be blamed for their deaths if their presence is exposed is obvious. 
 

So LVD either killed the kids to get them out of the way of her love life or had Cox kill them and Cox buried them on Daybell’s property to control Daybell or to have his revenge. Gibb’s loyalty to LVD is stronger, plus most of the weirdstuff she claims Chad taught was told her by LVD, not by Chad. If she inflated the whole public display of affection in her mind or the frequent visits of Daybell to Arizona can’t be documented, Prior could paint the affair aspect as mostly in LVD and Gibb’s imagination and that Daybell was a nice guy who got seduced by a psycho woman and her killer brother, a brother who tries to destroy the man coming between him and his sister as he did twice before (Ryan and Vallow). 
 

——

At least that is how it makes sense to me.  With AxC dead and LVD with a long, long history of abusive relationships and manipulation of others, I think he is hoping that comparing their history to nicest guy you could know Daybell will make much more sense to jurors than ‘how could this guy hide a sociopathic nature for so long without a hint?’

Maybe Daybell being so helpful in front of the camera and his smiles when thanked or successful is all an act to make him look like ‘simple, but nice guy down the street’.  It seemed weird to me that Prior kept ignoring the mic instructions as well as the three name errors, but he could have been distracted and nervous as not his usual workload. 
 

——

OTOH, I might be giving Prior too much credit. He could just be an absolute jerk who does a routine of ‘I am confused’ to make it appear the witness isn’t making much sense, that the story is all too convoluted to be real. 
 

His own history points to good evidence he is an all around jerk. Google his name and state if you are not already aware of it. 

Edited by Calm
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2 hours ago, Calm said:

His own history points to good evidence he is an all around jerk. Google his name and state if you are not already aware of it. 

😳 He should have been disbarred. What a scumbag! It fits with the odd lack of self control I noticed. 

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I would like to hear from actual lawyers if lawyers generally use a hearing to clarify things they are confused about or if they are more likely to do the research first themselves and then act confused to justify the questions.

I would expect Prior to have at least  googled “King Noah” etc. given he said he listened to the phone call so much and was confused by it. What do people do these days when hearing a reference they don’t know?  And if he listened to her testimony as much as he implied, I don’t think he would have missed that they were in separate rooms (I am pretty sure she was clear about that).
 

I would also really like to know if Prior is LDS (I just can’t bring myself to use “Saint” for him, lol) because the whole King Noah thing and the attempts to suggest Gibb was having an affair with Warwick (asking her if she lived with Warwick, assumption she shared the bedroom with him at LVD’s) would be dramatically different if he actually knew the story of Abinidai, Noah, and Alma given he kept bringing up adultery when that is generally not the first thing members think of in regards to the story.  
 

Even asking her about it being in the Bible so she had to correct him that it was in the Book of Mormon....Either he is incompetent (seems unlikely to me) or I am thinking he is trying to paint her to the world as a weird fanatic, Mormons are cultist, etc. Or maybe he is trying to make the local members who likely would be part of the jury ticked off their scriptures are being used by LVD to basically justify her lies about her children and possibly even killing them. 

I was almost laughing much of the time thinking to myself “so lawyers really do this!” because of him giving off a ‘slimy’, trickster lawyer vibe as one would expect in any B tv drama along with overly dramatic music...the whole trying to push the witnesses to say something they didn’t intend to say (FBI Daniels and the pet cemetery) and then whining to the judge about how they aren’t being cooperative or he had a right to know, etc. 

Edited by Calm
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