bluebell Posted October 28, 2019 Posted October 28, 2019 On 10/22/2019 at 7:17 PM, Robert F. Smith said: Why am I not permitted to give you a rep point? Tacenda is on limited status and those who are on limited can't be given rep points. I think it's just how the software is set up.
Jracforr Posted October 28, 2019 Posted October 28, 2019 As I prayed for this nation I came upon the following scriptures, Helaman7:20-22 O, how could you have forgotten your God in the very day that he has delivered you? 21 But behold, it is to get gain, to be praised of men, yea, and that ye might get gold and silver. And ye have set your hearts upon the riches and the vain things of this world, for the which ye do murder, and plunder, and steal, and bear false witness against your neighbor, and do all manner of iniquity. 22 And for this cause wo shall come unto you except ye shall repent…
Robert F. Smith Posted October 28, 2019 Posted October 28, 2019 (edited) On 10/28/2019 at 9:00 AM, Jracforr said: As I prayed for this nation I came upon the following scriptures, Helaman7:20-22 O, how could you have forgotten your God in the very day that he has delivered you? 21 But behold, it is to get gain, to be praised of men, yea, and that ye might get gold and silver. And ye have set your hearts upon the riches and the vain things of this world, for the which ye do murder, and plunder, and steal, and bear false witness against your neighbor, and do all manner of iniquity. 22 And for this cause wo shall come unto you except ye shall repent… O.K. We are all sinners. Now, can I have some of that gold and silver which I'm supposed to get? Please. Edited October 30, 2019 by Robert F. Smith 1
Robert F. Smith Posted October 28, 2019 Posted October 28, 2019 1 hour ago, bluebell said: Tacenda is on limited status and those who are on limited can't be given rep points. I think it's just how the software is set up. Yeh, I get that. Just wondering what Tacenda did that was so horrible.
Tacenda Posted October 28, 2019 Posted October 28, 2019 15 minutes ago, Robert F. Smith said: Yeh, I get that. Just wondering what Tacenda did that was so horrible. I bet Calm is right, I probably started way too many topics. Plus, I derailed, and I remember going too far and not respecting JS in one post. There are a few. So I deserve it, and I've often said, it's okay because I post too much. It restricts me. The only bad thing is that I cannot give points.
bluebell Posted October 28, 2019 Posted October 28, 2019 25 minutes ago, Robert F. Smith said: Yeh, I get that. Just wondering what Tacenda did that was so horrible. I don't know why the mods decided on that. They seem to do that with posters that get reported too often by other posters, but Tacenda has been on restricted for so long that I don't remember what might have caused that. 2
nuclearfuels Posted October 28, 2019 Posted October 28, 2019 13 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said: The Church does not take positions on party politics, and it is not doing so now. Praying for national leaders that they will have strength and wisdom to govern with justice and fairness and that they will thereby be an instrument in God's hands to accomplish His purposes avoids the dilemmas you suggest above. Can't have it both ways. If you claim one political philosophy is bad, you can't then claim you are neutral
Scott Lloyd Posted October 28, 2019 Posted October 28, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, nuclearfuels said: Can't have it both ways. If you claim one political philosophy is bad, you can't then claim you are neutral Your premise is wrong. Praying that government leaders will have the strength, wisdom and courage to do what is right in the eyes of God is not favoring one political position or the other. It’s leaving judgment to God. And I stand by what I said about the Church leaders not favoring any political party. That doesn’t mean they can’t or don’t take positions about specific issues that have a morality component to them or that impact religious freedom or the mission of the Church in some way. Edited October 28, 2019 by Scott Lloyd 1
Calm Posted October 28, 2019 Posted October 28, 2019 3 hours ago, Tacenda said: I bet Calm is right, I probably started way too many topics. Plus, I derailed, and I remember going too far and not respecting JS in one post. There are a few. So I deserve it, and I've often said, it's okay because I post too much. It restricts me. The only bad thing is that I cannot give points. You have been a good sport about it that I remember. 1
Bill “Papa” Lee Posted October 28, 2019 Posted October 28, 2019 On 10/21/2019 at 10:39 AM, stemelbow said: Awesome. So he's trying to continue the myth that he gets to see jesus as jesus comes by for a nighttime visit? Is he claiming to tell us jesus' important message to us or is he relying on vague allusions to make us feel confident they know something we don't? Wow, this just seems absolutely uncalled for...on many levels. Seems to me good advice, to pray for the leaders of all Nations, even if it were coming from your next door neighbors. Although, I am sure if it did, you would not be so rude. Why post this at all? 4
stemelbow Posted October 28, 2019 Posted October 28, 2019 2 hours ago, Bill “Papa” Lee said: Wow, this just seems absolutely uncalled for...on many levels. Seems to me good advice, to pray for the leaders of all Nations, even if it were coming from your next door neighbors. Although, I am sure if it did, you would not be so rude. Why post this at all? I don't mean to be rude. I suppose I've grown tired of the vague allusions to having seen jesus. My comments have nothing to do with the desire to pray for nations or leaders. It was meant to Express some exasperation at the weird wording used to claim facing jesus. Nothing more. Pray for everyone. I mean it doesn't seem to be doing anything but no matter. I have no problem with people doing it.
Bill “Papa” Lee Posted October 28, 2019 Posted October 28, 2019 9 minutes ago, stemelbow said: I don't mean to be rude. I suppose I've grown tired of the vague allusions to having seen jesus. My comments have nothing to do with the desire to pray for nations or leaders. It was meant to Express some exasperation at the weird wording used to claim facing jesus. Nothing more. Pray for everyone. I mean it doesn't seem to be doing anything but no matter. I have no problem with people doing it. Forgive me, but it was very abrupt and very rude. Also nowhere in President Ballard’s call for prayer, did he say anything about seeing Jesus Christ. He did not say it, nor was there any indication by any Prophets and Apostles, about nightly sit downs or visits from Jesus, on some schedule basis. You may have not have wished to offend, but you laid it on thick with unneeded sarcasm. The only question I still have is; Why? Why respond in this way in this thread? 1
stemelbow Posted October 29, 2019 Posted October 29, 2019 5 hours ago, Bill “Papa” Lee said: Forgive me, but it was very abrupt and very rude. Also nowhere in President Ballard’s call for prayer, did he say anything about seeing Jesus Christ. He did not say it, nor was there any indication by any Prophets and Apostles, about nightly sit downs or visits from Jesus, on some schedule basis. You may have not have wished to offend, but you laid it on thick with unneeded sarcasm. The only question I still have is; Why? Why respond in this way in this thread? What does he mean by it is his solemn duty to face jesus? What does facing jesus suggest? I've already answered you're question. The reason why is as I said, "it was meant to Express some exasperation".
Scott Lloyd Posted October 29, 2019 Posted October 29, 2019 7 hours ago, stemelbow said: What does he mean by it is his solemn duty to face jesus? What does facing jesus suggest? I've already answered you're question. The reason why is as I said, "it was meant to Express some exasperation". As an apostle of Jesus Christ, President Ballard has the duty to receive revelation from the Lord pertaining to his calling and to teach the people according to the revelation he receives. We know that there are a number of ways that divine revelation is conveyed and received (or call it inspiration if you will; they are one and the same). Most often, it occurs through the placement of thoughts or impressions in the mind that come from God. To take the phrasing that President Ballard uses here and conclude from it that he is necessarily stating or implying that he literally has a frequent, face-to-face interview with the Lord strikes me as, well, a tad silly. I’m not precluding this from ever happening. I’m only saying that it is not requisite to the revelatory process.
stemelbow Posted October 29, 2019 Posted October 29, 2019 1 hour ago, Scott Lloyd said: As an apostle of Jesus Christ, President Ballard has the duty to receive revelation from the Lord pertaining to his calling and to teach the people according to the revelation he receives. Apparently there was no revelation at all. Praying for the nations leaders is already something members should do. 1 hour ago, Scott Lloyd said: We know that there are a number of ways that divine revelation is conveyed and received (or call it inspiration if you will; they are one and the same). Most often, it occurs through the placement of thoughts or impressions in the mind that come from God. To take the phrasing that President Ballard uses here and conclude from it that he is necessarily stating or implying that he literally has a frequent, face-to-face interview with the Lord strikes me as, well, a tad silly. I’m not precluding this from ever happening. I’m only saying that it is not requisite to the revelatory process. What's so laughable or silly to imagine he means facing really means facing? Sounds to me you have to conclude they really don't face the lord at all to think he's not saying he's facing the lord when he claims he's facing the lord.
Bill “Papa” Lee Posted October 29, 2019 Posted October 29, 2019 13 hours ago, stemelbow said: What does he mean by it is his solemn duty to face jesus? What does facing jesus suggest? I've already answered you're question. The reason why is as I said, "it was meant to Express some exasperation". I could have read that many times over, and never come to that conclusion. What I do believe is there are two factors to the ideas that Prophets and Apostles, that create this “exasperation”, to use you term, then... 1) If it is true that our modern day, Prophets and Apostles, do in fact see Jesus Christ, it indeed makes them in fact both literal and truthful. If so then he (or she) who is, “exasperated”, is angry because they do not “want” to believe it. or 2) If it is true that our modern day, Prophets and Apostles, do indeed see Jesus Christ, then it means that there is a “risen Jesus Christ”. If so, then he (or she) who is “exasperated”, is angry because they don’t want to believe in Jesus Christ. Also if there be a “risen Jesus Christ”, then they are indeed Prophets and Apostles, and the Church is true, and they don’t want to believe it is true. Now, I need an aspirin, my head is hurting for trying to type this...
Scott Lloyd Posted October 29, 2019 Posted October 29, 2019 5 hours ago, stemelbow said: Apparently there was no revelation at all. Praying for the nations leaders is already something members should do. What's so laughable or silly to imagine he means facing really means facing? Sounds to me you have to conclude they really don't face the lord at all to think he's not saying he's facing the lord when he claims he's facing the lord. I have to conclude no such thing. I can take it that it could mean he “faces” the Lord in the figurative sense of seeking guidance and then receiving personal revelation in response. Your literalistic interpretation is not binding on anyone else. But in truth, what does it matter how it is received so long as it <is> received and then conveyed to us? 1
blarsen Posted October 29, 2019 Posted October 29, 2019 On 10/26/2019 at 8:31 PM, nuclearfuels said: I appreciated his words. Now, I'm trying to reconcile them with what he said about Nationalism, Populism, etc. Elder M. Russell Ballard of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles stated that we need to “eliminate any prejudice, including racism, sexism, and nationalism.” Later, Elder Neil L. Andersen, also of the Quorum of the Twelve, reiterated Ballard’s words on this subject. - So prejudice, including racism, sexism, and nationalism has led some in the US to where we are now? Like Antifa shutting down free speech events? If we're supposed to pray for our country's leaders, are we supposed to pray for impeachment (nationalism is set back or reduced; a socialist is elected POTUS?) or for impeachment to fail (nationalism rises; Trump and Pence are not re-elected?) ? Elder Quentin Cook in the same conference and perhaps session, decried a toxic nationalism. I had no problem with that. Elders Ballard and Andersen, on the other hand, just targeted "nationalism". This was somewhat unsettling to me, being someone who regards my nation as more akin to the largest 'family' I belong to, that includes the same customs, language, ideals, laws, governance we all subscribe to. Most definitions I discovered for nationalism, also don't harbor negative connotations for the word. And I'll have to admit, I'm prejudiced toward my particular nation, and hope that citizens of other nations feel the same way about theirs.
stemelbow Posted October 29, 2019 Posted October 29, 2019 3 hours ago, Bill “Papa” Lee said: I could have read that many times over, and never come to that conclusion. What I do believe is there are two factors to the ideas that Prophets and Apostles, that create this “exasperation”, to use you term, then... 1) If it is true that our modern day, Prophets and Apostles, do in fact see Jesus Christ, it indeed makes them in fact both literal and truthful. If so then he (or she) who is, “exasperated”, is angry because they do not “want” to believe it. or 2) If it is true that our modern day, Prophets and Apostles, do indeed see Jesus Christ, then it means that there is a “risen Jesus Christ”. If so, then he (or she) who is “exasperated”, is angry because they don’t want to believe in Jesus Christ. Also if there be a “risen Jesus Christ”, then they are indeed Prophets and Apostles, and the Church is true, and they don’t want to believe it is true. Now, I need an aspirin, my head is hurting for trying to type this... Lol. You sure those are our only two options? I'm angry no matter what? I don't feel angry.
stemelbow Posted October 29, 2019 Posted October 29, 2019 3 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said: I have to conclude no such thing. I can take it that it could mean he “faces” the Lord in the figurative sense of seeking guidance and then receiving personal revelation in response. Your literalistic interpretation is not binding on anyone else. But in truth, what does it matter how it is received so long as it <is> received and then conveyed to us? You can take it how ever you wish,I suppose. But again I'm not sure it's a silly notion for someone to take him at his word
Bill “Papa” Lee Posted October 30, 2019 Posted October 30, 2019 1 hour ago, stemelbow said: Lol. You sure those are our only two options? I'm angry no matter what? I don't feel angry. I am sure there are more, but my fingers tired of typing.
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