Modestly Level 11

[MustardSeed]

(As an aside, if I had a quarter for every time as a child / youth that a man told me to smile I’d have enough money to correct my RBF.  These days, no one ever tells me to smile.  They know better. ) 

[Calm]

11 minutes ago, MustardSeed said:

(As an aside, if I had a quarter for every time as a child / youth that a man told me to smile I’d have enough money to correct my RBF.  These days, no one ever tells me to smile.  They know better. ) 

I think the last one to try it on me was my grandma when when I was a freshman at BYU.  My gut reaction is to tell people you want a performing seal, go to the circus.

[MustardSeed]

2 minutes ago, Calm said:

I think the last one to try it on me was my grandma when when I was a freshman at BYU.  My gut reaction is to tell people you want a performing seal, go to the circus.

For anyone who may be befuddled by the offense taken... I may be wrong but I Don’t believe that boys are told to smile. My opinion is that it is assumed that girls are supposed to be pleasant and pretty. Just another one of those subtle Reminders of how females are seen differently than males. I don’t like it.

[Bernard Gui]

5 hours ago, SettingDogStar said:

Sure, but when I hug my concert after her amazing baptism and spiritual experience and then i get in trouble there is something very wrong with what we are instilling in our elders and sisters. Hugs are not “inappropriate” unless someone makes it clear they do not want one.

How do they do that? How do you know their comfort zone before you go for the full body press..

[Bernard Gui]

24 minutes ago, bluebell said:

I'm with you.  This is beyond frustrating!  
 

Somebody get his name! Then I’ll get a rope! 😲

Edited October 22, 2019 by Bernard Gui

[The Nehor]

23 minutes ago, MustardSeed said:

(As an aside, if I had a quarter for every time as a child / youth that a man told me to smile I’d have enough money to correct my RBF.  These days, no one ever tells me to smile.  They know better. ) 

 

If you want to see people smile do something that is worth smiling for.

Edited October 22, 2019 by The Nehor

[MustardSeed]

8 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

Somebody get his name! Then I’ll get a rope! 😲

Well we don’t need to kill anyone. Just wish I could talk to someone who makes the decisions.  Call me Karen, I want to talk to the manager. 

 

[Amulek]

32 minutes ago, Calm said:

It's practical, but it would make more sense imo to explain rather than just give the command.  That way it might teach a long lasting worthwhile habit rather than have someone thinking it is just an odd rule for that time or place.

I completely agree. 'Because I said so' is a perfectly good explanation when you're dealing with toddlers / very young children. Adults - not so much. 

I'm sure the mission president is doing what he thinks is best, but whenever I hear stories like these it really makes me appreciate how blessed I was to have an exceptional mission president for the majority of my mission.

 

[The Nehor]

Also could we not throw the Mission President under a bus? A rule like this probably did not pop out of nowhere. Sending missionaries home due to sin is awful and I can understand trying eccentric rules to prevent it from happening again though I do not agree with the rule itself. Basically mock the rule but let’s avoid the mind reading where all kinds of creepiness are ascribed to him.

We also do not know why. There was a groups of rules my Mission President added in our mission and some would  look chauvinist without context and the Mission President and his wife both apologized to the sisters for adding it but it was a safety issue. Thankfully it was rescinded once local conditions calmed down.

Edited October 22, 2019 by The Nehor

[Calm]

15 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

How do they do that? How do you know their comfort zone before you go for the full body press..

Ask

[Calm]

16 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

the Mission President and his wife both apologized to the sisters for adding it but it was a safety issue.

The explanations can go a long way to remove weirdness.  When they are lacking though, it becomes something more.

[The Nehor]

12 minutes ago, Calm said:

The explanations can go a long way to remove weirdness.  When they are lacking though, it becomes something more.

Why would we expect to be given an explanation?

[Ahab]

11 hours ago, Calm said:

No, I don’t smile on command, but only when it comes naturally and find it weird that you are asking for it.  Especially when there is a good chance I am older than you and not some little girl who adults tell to look cute or whatever. 

My intent was to try to put a smile on your face and lighten your mood when I noticed you were not sensing my sense of humor.  And I would still enjoying "seeing" you smile more rather than having an unpleasant attitude, however old you are.

[Peacefully]

The OP said this was a modesty issue, not a safety issue. How do the sister missionaries feel about the rule? Are they too intimidated by the MP to even discuss it? Can they go above the MP if they feel he has overreached? There must be some recourse for missionaries, male or female, in such a situation. I must admit I didn’t think about these questions when my son went on a mission ten years ago, but maybe it is a conversation that needs to happen before they go. 

[Calm]

Just now, Ahab said:

My intent was to try to put a smile on your face and lighten your mood when I noticed you were not sensing my sense of humor.  And I would still enjoying "seeing" you smile more rather than having an unpleasant attitude, however old you are.

My mood was actually plenty light before you started pushing me to smile.  That you assumed it wasn't because I didn't view your comment as funny is your problem of misreading, not me being emotionally down.

And you still want me to fake my reaction so you feel more comfortable with me being "pleasant"?

Wouldn't it be easier for you to change your own behaviour than to expect others to change to please you?

[Calm]

11 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

Why would we expect to be given an explanation?

By mission presidents for changing the standard mission rules?

Generally if you want people to change their behaviour, giving them reasons why rather than just ordering them to tends to be more effective from what I have seen.  In the case of it being safety issues, bet they got better compliance than they would have if they hadn't explained.

And if you are trying to teach a principle, explanations are often necessary.

Edited October 22, 2019 by Calm

[Ahab]

1 hour ago, MustardSeed said:

For anyone who may be befuddled by the offense taken... I may be wrong but I Don’t believe that boys are told to smile. My opinion is that it is assumed that girls are supposed to be pleasant and pretty. Just another one of those subtle Reminders of how females are seen differently than males. I don’t like it.

For the record, I didn't tell anyone to smile. I simply said I would enjoy seeing <someone> smile more when I sensed that <someone> apparently didn't sense my sense of humor.  A light-hearted attitude can go a long way to help people get along with each other and I think it can also help people to better sense another person's sense of humor, even if the humor is not blatantly obvious.

Anyway, rather than getting upset that the sister  missionaries "have to" wear sweaters I think it would help to think of it in the sense that they "get to" wear sweaters.  And rather than thinking some older man is "making them" wear sweaters it would help to think of the "mission president" as a man acting on his sense of how good it looks (even if only to him) for young women to wear nice, cozy sweaters rather than thinking their arms are supposed to be bare naked when they are in the presence of men.

FYI: Telling women to smile is well documented enough to be called harrassment and will be treated as such on this board. Your comments about women are offensive.  

[Calm]

2 minutes ago, Ahab said:

For the record, I didn't tell anyone to smile

For the record:

Quote

Would you smile for me, now, please?

 

[Calm]

10 minutes ago, Ahab said:

man acting on his sense of how good it looks (even if only to him) for young women to wear nice, cozy sweaters rather than thinking their arms are supposed to be bare naked when they are in the presence of men

You just keep digging yourself in deeper.  Did you mean to write women's arms are "bare naked" when they don't have sweaters or coats on?  And that is inappropriate when in the presence of men?

Sweaters when it is hot or even warm aren't nice and cozy.

And a man has the right in your view to make women wear clothing based on how good it looks to him?  Seriously?  Are you even paying attention to what you are writing at this point?

Edited October 22, 2019 by Calm

[The Nehor]

11 minutes ago, Calm said:

By mission presidents for changing the standard mission rules?

Generally if you want people to change their behaviour, giving them reasons why rather than just ordering them to tends to be more effective from what I have seen.  In the case of it being safety issues, bet they got better compliance than they would have if they hadn't explained.

And if you are trying to teach a principle, explanations are often necessary.

I agree but we are not in the mission so I would not expect to have the explanation and I got the impression that the missionary reporting this is new so she may not have heard it.

[Ahab]

21 minutes ago, Calm said:

For the record:

 

Still not a command.  And I am still smiling.

You are restricted from posting for a week. We take this seriously on this board.

[Calm]

7 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

I agree but we are not in the mission so I would not expect to have the explanation and I got the impression that the missionary reporting this is new so she may not have heard it.

I thought you were talking about the missionaries getting the explanation.  I agree we shouldn't expect to know.

Cinepro mention in February he had a daughter on a mission, assuming same one.

Edited October 22, 2019 by Calm

[The Nehor]

10 minutes ago, Ahab said:

For the record, I didn't tell anyone to smile. I simply said I would enjoy seeing <someone> smile more when I sensed that <someone> apparently didn't sense my sense of humor.  A light-hearted attitude can go a long way to help people get along with each other and I think it can also help people to better sense another person's sense of humor, even if the humor is not blatantly obvious.

Anyway, rather than getting upset that the sister  missionaries "have to" wear sweaters I think it would help to think of it in the sense that they "get to" wear sweaters.  And rather than thinking some older man is "making them" wear sweaters it would help to think of the "mission president" as a man acting on his sense of how good it looks (even if only to him) for young women to wear nice, cozy sweaters rather than thinking their arms are supposed to be bare naked when they are in the presence of men.

[Bernard Gui]

54 minutes ago, Calm said:

Ask

“Can I give you a big hug?”

I’ve never been asked that by a serial hugger.

Usually, it’s a demand. “Come over here and let me give you a hug!”

It’s awkward to say, “No thank you. That makes me uncomfortable.”

[Bernard Gui]

1 hour ago, MustardSeed said:

Well we don’t need to kill anyone. Just wish I could talk to someone who makes the decisions.  Call me Karen, I want to talk to the manager. 

 

Well, I’ll handle the details. After all, I am the Mormon Inquisitor.

How about the parent simply write a letter to the MP or the Church Missionary Department for clarification. Whole lotta supposin’ goin’ on.

Edited October 22, 2019 by Bernard Gui