Study Re: Consciousness "After Death"

[smac97]

Interesting:

Quote

When the heart stops the blood supply to the brain is quickly cut off – and in operating theatres this moment would be recorded as the official time of death.

But studies show that the dead person’s mind and consciousness continue to work, at least for a short time – meaning the deceased can recognise their own death.

Indeed there is some evidence to suggest the ‘dead person’ may even hear their own death being announced as they lie on the operating theatre table.

...

Dr. Sam Parnia, director of critical care and resuscitation research at NYU Langone School of Medicine in New York City, said people in the first phase of death may still experience some form of consciousness.

“Once that happens, blood no longer circulates to the brain, which means brain function halts almost instantaneously.

“You lose all your brain stem reflexes — your gag reflex, your pupil reflex, all that is gone."

Dr Parnia and his team continue to investigate the pervasiveness of consciousness after death with twin studies in Europe and the United States who have suffered cardiac arrest, in the largest study of its kind.

He said: "In the same way that a group of researchers might be studying the qualitative nature of the human experience of 'love,' for instance, we're trying to understand the exact features that people experience when they go through death, because we understand that this is going to reflect the universal experience we're all going to have when we die.”

He added: "We also study the human mind and consciousness in the context of death, to understand whether consciousness becomes annihilated or whether it continues after you've died for some period of time — and how that relates to what's happening inside the brain in real time.

"And the evidence reveals that people whose heart stopped and then restarted – usually on the operating table – could describe exactly what had been happening around them.

"The new research is an extension of these findings."

Dr Parnia told Live Science: “They'll describe watching doctors and nurses working and they'll describe having awareness of full conversations, of visual things that were going on, that would otherwise not be known to them.”

Explaining the moment of death he said: “It's all based on the moment when the heart stops.

"Technically speaking, that's how you get the time of death."

Anyone with training/experience in this field care to chime in?

Thanks,

-Smac

[rpn]

When I read the article my thought was that science isn't in a position to account for a spirit being separate, independent of a body.   It seems that their finding is really about the spirit and not the body.

[Robert F. Smith]

1 hour ago, smac97 said:

Interesting:

Anyone with training/experience in this field care to chime in?

Thanks,

-Smac

Are they simply describing some interesting facets of on- board-computer (brain) activity at the time of death, in which there is not a full shut down, bur rather some continuing activity of consciousness -- which is proven to be aware of actual actions taking place in its environment even though the brain is officially "dead."

Is this also the time period in which many people report a tunnel of light, greeting persons on the other side, etc.?  Is this a period of separation of the brain-computer from spiritual consciousness (the spirit which inhabits our bodies and which uses our brain as an on-board-computer)? Is our brain an organ dedicated to bridging the gap between our spirit and our human body?  Is that part of what we came to Earth to learn?

[Glenn101]

1 hour ago, rpn said:

When I read the article my thought was that science isn't in a position to account for a spirit being separate, independent of a body.   It seems that their finding is really about the spirit and not the body.

All of those studies are about near death experiences because all of the reports are about people that survived, at least long enough to report those experiences. The time of death has been defined technically as the point when all blood flow to the brain stops causing the brain to shut down, cease all activity. It is a point of contention by NDE skeptics that the onset of oxygen deprivation triggers hallucinations and that is all that a near death experience is. I don't know that we will find a definitive answer before the millennium. I still find NDE's and put of body experiences fascinating.

Glenn

[Judd]

Death being when the heart stops has been reinforced as a societal truism. Of course it’s the best piece of correlation we have, but the idea that one is dead when the heart stops isn’t exactly fully accurate, but we hear these colloquial sayings about how someone was “dead for [some amount of time],” which is speaking of a heart not beating. Of course, when one is clinically “dead” it is because somebody is there observing it, which is almost exclusively tied to receiving CPR, so the heart is actually still pumping, just not on its own.

It’s actually an interesting subject, but a lot of why we find this weird is simply because it’s engrained in our beliefs that the clinical diagnosis of death is somehow perfectly correlated with actual death, but there’s a whole lot we don’t know.

[mfbukowski]

Interesting stuff, but I think it presents some problems if taken as evidence for an afterlife

There is a portion of the mind-body problem in philosophy which is dedicated to the discussion of physicalism. 

Physicalism is the belief that consciousness is nothing more or less than chemical and electrical activity in the brain, a view also known as "reductionism", reducing spiritual activity to physical brain functions.

Theists typically do not want to accept that view, because then when electrochemical activity stops, consciousness stops and therefore there could be no consciousness after the complete cessation of brain activity.

Looking at it that way this study does not help the argument for an afterlife at all, in fact, it can be seen as damaging to it.  

I think the argument of theists must be that consciousness is something at this time undefinable by science, and not simply reducible to physical brain activity.

Saying "You know you're dead" and are "conscious" because there is electrical activity, is actually I think a circular argument.

All the people who tell that story obviously regained consciousness to be able to tell it, and so they were mistaken about being dead and knowing it.!!

Edited November 23, 2018 by mfbukowski

[Lucian Hodoboc]

Quote

they'll describe having awareness of full conversations, of visual things that were going on, that would otherwise not be known to them.”

... unless the doctors secretly told them afterwards in an attempt to gain fame through a made-up supernatural incident. 🤔

[mfbukowski]

11 hours ago, Judd said:

Death being when the heart stops has been reinforced as a societal truism. Of course it’s the best piece of correlation we have, but the idea that one is dead when the heart stops isn’t exactly fully accurate, but we hear these colloquial sayings about how someone was “dead for [some amount of time],” which is speaking of a heart not beating. Of course, when one is clinically “dead” it is because somebody is there observing it, which is almost exclusively tied to receiving CPR, so the heart is actually still pumping, just not on its own.

It’s actually an interesting subject, but a lot of why we find this weird is simply because it’s engrained in our beliefs that the clinical diagnosis of death is somehow perfectly correlated with actual death, but there’s a whole lot we don’t know.

Being on a heart lung machine is the same! Been there done that. No nde!

[strappinglad]

Doctors know what  brain activity looks like when one is awake, when one is sleeping, when one is dreaming, when one is under the influence of various drugs etc. They also can see when the brain flatlines. Are we saying that even though the EEG monitors show zero activity, the brain is still producing clear and vivid images and memory? Magical isn't it?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JL1oDuvQR08

Edited November 23, 2018 by strappinglad

[MustardSeed]

https://ideapod.com/harvard-trained-brain-researcher-stroke-figures-mystery-life/?utm_source=catalyst&utm_medium=link&utm_campaign=sciencedump

 

This link will take you to a video (scroll down for it) ...  my husband was extremely moved by this video and shared it with me.  Thought I’d pass it on to those interested in the topic of NDE. 

[Jeanne]

All of this seems to make OBE almost impossible...and yet it happens to so many. 

[Jeanne]

On 11/23/2018 at 10:50 AM, MustardSeed said:

https://ideapod.com/harvard-trained-brain-researcher-stroke-figures-mystery-life/?utm_source=catalyst&utm_medium=link&utm_campaign=sciencedump

 

This link will take you to a video (scroll down for it) ...  my husband was extremely moved by this video and shared it with me.  Thought I’d pass it on to those interested in the topic of NDE. 

I loved this...thank you for sharing....if I can take all of the "me's" in my left hemisphere and apply them to my right...there might be a more peaceful world .

[Jeanne]

2 hours ago, Exiled said:

My great grandfather claimed to have left his body during an illness where the rest of the family thought he had died.  When he came back, he said he hovered over his body and the other members of the family and recited back some of the conversation the family was having when he was supposedly dead.  From that time on, my family had a rule to not speak ill of the dead or start fighting over the dead person's stuff until after the funeral.  One never knows when the dead will come back to life.  🤔

I had heard this before...that this happens; the hovering.  When both my husband and father died while I was there...I looked to the ceiling to tell them goodbye.

[Exiled]

My great grandfather claimed to have left his body during an illness where the rest of the family thought he had died.  When he came back, he said he hovered over his body and the other members of the family and recited back some of the conversation the family was having when he was supposedly dead.  From that time on, my family had a rule to not speak ill of the dead or start fighting over the dead person's stuff until after the funeral.  One never knows when the dead will come back to life.  🤔

[clarkgoble]

On 11/22/2018 at 7:24 PM, smac97 said:

Interesting:

Anyone with training/experience in this field care to chime in?

When I had open heart surgery this spring (bacterial infection) my heart had stopped. From what I can tell I wasn't dead. No NDE either. For part of the surgery I was technically conscious too although I have no memory of it since they used drugs that blocked short term memory formation. Apparently there are reasons why you want people conscious for part of the surgery - not sure how that deals with the pain although it obviously didn't affect me much.

[Tacenda]

On 11/24/2018 at 6:00 AM, Jeanne said:

I had heard this before...that this happens; the hovering.  When both my husband and father died while I was there...I looked to the ceiling to tell them goodbye.

💕

[Kevin Christensen]

I had a VHS of this one, and now have a DVD.  Raymond Moody talking about NDEs mixed with six personal accounts, including one by a Russian Psychologist who had been taught all his life that this life is all there is.  He reports talking to a baby in another part of the hospital who was crying because of an un-diagnosed broken hip.  Afterwards, he was able to confirm the diagnosis.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwiKl8LZgfXeAhVJnlkKHRSbC9IQtwIwAHoECAoQAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3Dz56u4wMxNlg&usg=AOvVaw2zIUewnvSFinjjEukQFKsj

This is my favorite of several different videos I have seen.  One thing to notice is how all of the experiencers light up when the start telling their stories.

FWIW

Kevin Christensen

Canonsburg, PA