Mormon Women's Group Call on LDS Senators to Investigate Allegations Against Kavanaugh

[alter idem]

4 minutes ago, ttribe said:

Let me clarify what I was asking - I agree that you can't convict someone of a crime without evidence.  You can certainly accuse, however.  That being said, this isn't a criminal proceeding.  You're focused on the politics and that's not what I'm asking about.  I'm asking your opinion - If he did, in fact, do the things of which he is accused, is he an appropriate candidate for the Supreme Court?

I'm focused on the politics because this is purely political.  

 

Does my opinion really matter?  It didn't seem to matter in politics if a man has been a philanderer or if he's even been accused of sexual assault.  They still serve.  Regardless, You should look carefully at what Kavanaugh has been accused of.  Ford said he 'lay on top of her and held her down' when he was a teen.  Ramirez said he pretended to expose himself (I don't want to go into details, it's lewd, you can look it up),  this was also when he was a teen and Sweatnick claims he was involved in spiking punch and was present at a party where she was gang raped in another room.  Now, You tell me if any of those accusations from when he was a teenager should make him ineligable to serve on the supreme court when he's got an exemplary record of serving as a judge.

 

Personally, I'd say those are not serious enough to keep him off the Supreme court, especially since they all happened at teen parties, 35 years ago, where kids were drunk and likely to act inappropriately.

[Anijen]

21 minutes ago, ttribe said:

But, what if the allegations are true?

Which allegations? That he, Kavanaugh, started World War I, or it was Kavanaugh's fault for the fall of the Roman Empire?

Oh, the rape allegations, simple, impeach him, trial, prison, and it seems warranted by many that execution by peeling off his skin and dunked in lemon-juice would be too nice.

Seriously, impeach him, give him a trial were he can face his accusers under oath and if there is a loop hole in 35+ years of statute of limitations then send the perv to prison. 

[Kenngo1969]

I reiterate my contention that Judge Kavanaugh deserves an up-or-down vote.  Given the current hyper-politicized, hyper-partisan environment with so much overheated rhetoric, he's even likely to not be confirmed.  If he's voted down, at least he can get on with his life (not to mention his wife and family being able to get on with their lives), go back to the District of Columbia Circuit, and continue (barring some as-yet-unforeseen occurrence; see below) on the bench until he retires.  "But Ken, what about the investigation?"  No one is stopping anyone or any entity from investigating Judge Kavanaugh as much as that person or entity may wish to do so, and at any time that person or entity may wish to do so!  

Think you can find credible evidence to substantiate the claims being made of wrongdoing by (a much younger) Brett Kavanaugh when the FBI hasn't found anything even after seven background investigations?  Fine!  Have at it!  Can you find credible evidence that he violated rules of judicial conduct, that he betrayed his office, and/or that he committed "high crimes and misdemeanors"?  Fine!  More power to you!  If you find such credible evidence, you can even seek to have him impeached and removed from office!

But give him an up-or-down vote!

[Kenngo1969]

5 minutes ago, Anijen said:

Which allegations? That he, Kavanaugh, started World War I, or it was Kavanaugh's fault for the fall of the Roman Empire?

Oh, the rape allegations, simple, impeach him, trial, prison, and it seems warranted by many that execution by peeling off his skin and dunked in lemon-juice would be too nice.

Seriously, impeach him, give him a trial were he can face his accusers under oath and if there is a loop hole in 35+ years of statute of limitations then send the perv to prison. 

Dang you, Anijen!!!!!!!!!!!  

(Great minds think alike?  )

 

 

[Anijen]

26 minutes ago, ttribe said:

Correct.  The FBI does not typically do any muckraking into one's high school days unless there is an allegation worth investigating.  They're good, but they're not omniscient.

Not true. Background checks vary in many ways. For instance my background check by the FBI when I became Postmaster hardly warranted a plane ticket, yet I still needed and was confirmed by the Senate. A language expert in an AWAC, you can bet his high school was talked to (teachers, principal, and peers). A potential submarine captain who controls nuclear weapons even more scrutiny. A potential justice of the Supreme Court, of course the FBI will go "muckraking" into high school and sometimes earlier.

[ttribe]

3 minutes ago, Anijen said:

Not true. Background checks vary in many ways. For instance my background check by the FBI when I became Postmaster hardly warranted a plane ticket, yet I still needed and was confirmed by the Senate. A language expert in an AWAC, you can bet his high school was talked to (teachers, principal, and peers). A potential submarine captain who controls nuclear weapons even more scrutiny. A potential justice of the Supreme Court, of course the FBI will go "muckraking" into high school and sometimes earlier.

Okay.  That's not been my experience with the Agents I've had occasion to interact with, but whatever.

[Kenngo1969]

4 hours ago, ALarson said:

Have you read the statement from the 3rd witness (posted above)?  I'd say that is very damaging.  Do you believe she's lying?

I'm going to wait to hear more from all of the witnesses, but I've got to say that this isn't looking good for Kavanaugh.

 

3 hours ago, carbon dioxide said:

I don't think anyone can prove who is lying and who is telling the truth.  Maybe these allegations are truthful and maybe they are lies.  Who knows.

Fortunately for the affiant, as damning as that affidavit may seem, she left plenty of wiggle room and used plenty of weasel words so as to be able to be able to wriggle out from under a perjury charge should anything to which she swore in that affidavit turn out to be untrue.

[Duncan]

33 minutes ago, Kenngo1969 said:

I don't recall making any claims about Sens. Schumer and Booker.

you said these "same senators", as in the same senators in 1991 are the same ones today

[Calm]

23 minutes ago, alter idem said:

And, you'd think with the 3rd accuser's description of several parties where girls were gang raped and apparently the guests at the party were aware of it, someone would have reported it to the police, their parents, etc. and there would be some witnesses who would have remembered that this happened.

I would actually not be surprised if the youth involved did not report it to parents and police.  They probably wouldn't have come to the party in the first place if they weren't already in the mental space of such things being excusable or silence being justified to be part of the in crowd, not be bullied, fear of being ostracized, etc.  The ones who would tell probably weren't interested in going to anything remotely resembling such parties, judging by what I remember of my high school days in the 70s, but maybe such things were more open and inclusive later on.

I never told my parents about the kids smoking pot in the bathroom behind the gym and home ec room or any rumors going around my school and I was about as straight laced as a kid can be (I cut one day in four years, never broke another rule I can remember...I stop at red lights in the middle of nowhere in the dead of night with no other cars around, never even got a parking ticket).  I assumed the authorities already knew more than I did (there was at least one plainclothes officer on campus most days iirc) and either didn't care or couldn't do anything about it (no sexual assaults, but some gang violence and definitely drugs).  Everyone knew who the streakers were that occasionally showed up one year, never heard of any penalty for them.  Girls my age at my afterschool work were laughing about getting drunk and rating sexual partners during breaks.  I can imagine it would be very hard as a kid to go against the party line and accuse someone, admit to being a victim, especially since many would assume multiple attendances at such parties meant one found such things acceptable.

-----

Any witness therefore I would expect to be a peer, not an adult at the time.

-------

Sounds like it was a pretty elite school, right (I just read the yearbook info as that headline struck me as unusual)?  Parents likely to be highly concerned with reputation and connections....and protecting their own kid most as most parents are.  Same with administrators.  Reaction might be if the stuff occurred off campus it wasn't their concern.  Parents might respond as just telling their kid to stay away.  I can see kids being cynical about adult reaction as well and therefore keeping the rumor sharing among themselves.

Wonder how big of a group it is claimed to involve.  If relatively small, the issue becomes how few would want to admit they were there.  If a man, then they could fear being labeled a gang rapist even if they weren't part of that.  If a woman, then speculation of whether they are a victim starts.  In both cases, they are trashed for noting doing something to protect others back then and for the years between.  Rationalizing that it was over and done with and people had moved on to be producrive members of society, etc., that it was youthful stupidity that shouldn't ruin their lives...I can see why everyone who could be an actual witness wouldn't want to speak up.

[Anijen]

4 minutes ago, ttribe said:

Okay.  That's not been my experience with the Agents I've had occasion to interact with, but whatever.

I have had three background checks by the FBI in my life time and one of those I had to have it confirmed by a majority vote of the Senate (Postmaster). I have had to have character and fitness background checks for every state I want to practice law in. They asked me for information that related back to when I was 18 years old (I am 54 now).  My high school friend became an artist for military simulators and it required an extensive background security check. I live in Nebraska he lives in Utah, yet an agent came out here (Nebraska) to ask questions about my friend who I first met in high school, and yes a few of the agents questions related back to our high school days.

[Calm]

28 minutes ago, alter idem said:

I'm focused on the politics because this is purely political.  

 

Does my opinion really matter?  It didn't seem to matter in politics if a man has been a philanderer or if he's even been accused of sexual assault.  They still serve.  Regardless, You should look carefully at what Kavanaugh has been accused of.  Ford said he 'lay on top of her and held her down' when he was a teen.  Ramirez said he pretended to expose himself (I don't want to go into details, it's lewd, you can look it up),  this was also when he was a teen and Sweatnick claims he was involved in spiking punch and was present at a party where she was gang raped in another room.  Now, You tell me if any of those accusations from when he was a teenager should make him ineligable to serve on the supreme court when he's got an exemplary record of serving as a judge.

 

Personally, I'd say those are not serious enough to keep him off the Supreme court, especially since they all happened at teen parties, 35 years ago, where kids were drunk and likely to act inappropriately.

But if he is lying about it now...yeah, I think that should keep him off the Court.

[Kenngo1969]

6 minutes ago, Duncan said:

you said these "same senators", as in the same senators in 1991 are the same ones today

I specifically referenced Joe Biden.

[Anijen]

6 minutes ago, Kenngo1969 said:

 

Fortunately for the affiant, as damning as that affidavit may seem, she left plenty of wiggle room and used plenty of weasel words so as to be able to be able to wriggle out from under a perjury charge should anything to which she swore in that affidavit turn out to be untrue.

If these allegations are found to be false, I would really like to see a civil suit (Defamation). To ruin a persons life and reputation is grossly wrong. I would like to see all false accusations tried in a court of law. the reasoning would be to deter those who would defame a person for political reasons. Maybe they would think twice about such a low scummy political ploy. However, if the allegations are true, impeach him, then get around the SofL and send the perv to prison.

[ttribe]

8 minutes ago, Anijen said:

I have had three background checks by the FBI in my life time and one of those I had to have it confirmed by a majority vote of the Senate (Postmaster). I have had to have character and fitness background checks for every state I want to practice law in. They asked me for information that related back to when I was 18 years old (I am 54 now).  My high school friend became an artist for military simulators and it required an extensive background security check. I live in Nebraska he lives in Utah, yet an agent came out here (Nebraska) to ask questions about my friend who I first met in high school, and yes a few of the agents questions related back to our high school days.

Okay. Not trying to argue with you. 

[Calm]

1 hour ago, Duncan said:

their are witnesses, he denies going to any of these parties yet his yearbooks say something else, he was a Renata Alumnus, meaning he knew who she was. Interestingly he said in an interview that he wasn't at that party but she , as you say, has never said which party, how does he know which party she is talking about? the guy is skeezicks! It's what the US has come to, we're fine😊

Renate is a different woman than the one accusing him of sexual assault, she had been previously a supporter of the judge as she hadn't been aware of the yearbook entry:

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/24/business/brett-kavanaugh-yearbook-renate.html

Quote

Judge Kavanaugh’s years at Georgetown Prep, in a Maryland suburb of Washington, are under intense scrutiny because of allegations by Christine Blasey Ford that he sexually assaulted her during high school. Judge Kavanaugh has denied the allegation. He and Dr. Blaseyare scheduled to testify Thursday before the Senate Judiciary Committee.

Judge Kavanaugh’s peers have given different accounts of what he was like. But his yearbook provides a contemporaneous glimpse of the elite Catholic school’s hard-drinking atmosphere — Judge Kavanaugh’s personal page boasts, “100 kegs or bust” — and a culture that some describe as disrespectful to women.

This month, Renate Schroeder Dolphin joined 64 other women who, saying they knew Judge Kavanaugh during their high school years, signed a letter to the leaders of the Senate Judiciary Committee, which is weighing Judge Kavanaugh’s nomination. The letter stated that “he has behaved honorably and treated women with respect.”

When Ms. Dolphin signed the Sept. 14 letter, she wasn’t aware of the “Renate” yearbook references on the pages of Judge Kavanaugh and his football teammates.

“I learned about these yearbook pages only a few days ago,” Ms. Dolphin said in a statement to The New York Times. “I don’t know what ‘Renate Alumnus’ actually means. I can’t begin to comprehend what goes through the minds of 17-year-old boys who write such things, but the insinuation is horrible, hurtful and simply untrue. I pray their daughters are never treated this way. I will have no further comment.”

 

Edited September 27, 2018 by Calm

[Anijen]

9 minutes ago, Calm said:

 Girls my age at my afterschool work were laughing about getting drunk and rating sexual partners during breaks.  

Hi, Calm. Just want to show other posters here how dignified and uncontentious your posts are. thank you for that.

Regarding the above portion of your post, I wanted to point out that these girls (your age) did talk about (well laugh) and rate their partners. Here, we see that it was spoken about, yet in the Kavanaugh case, she can not recall, the place, the time, the date (not even the year) or witnesses to corroborate her statement. In her accusatory letter, the man she does actually name denies it ever happened.

 

Quote

  I can see kids being cynical about adult reaction as well and therefore keeping the rumor sharing among themselves.

I see your this from your perspective and agree with it. Many times, I have seen in cases the victim will refuse or want to testify. Many times the victim will ask for theTRO to be dropped. This is a sad occurrence, but it unfortunately happens. However, you are also correct they, friends, other party goers will share among themselves. Additionally rumors of gang rape in a party house in my experience would not be hushed (maybe by the victim), but the party goers would ignite this gossip and spread it like a spark on lint from a dryer. IOW someone should recall something.

 

Quote

 In both cases, they are trashed for noting doing something to protect others back then and for the years between.  Rationalizing that it was over and done with and people had moved on to be producrive members of society, etc., that it was youthful stupidity that shouldn't ruin their lives...I can see why everyone who could be an actual witness wouldn't want to speak up.

Again you are correct about victims keeping quiet. However, witnesses do and often go out of their way to bring attention to it. School administers (teachers, principals, coaches, etc.) are under obligation of law to bring it to the authorities. I believe if Kavanaugh is guilty he should be behind bars. Take into consideration how this come about (11th hour after Senate hearing, right before the vote). Take into consideration of the very ambiguous, sketchy statements of the accusers (e.g. " I think," I believe," "I cant remember..."). Take into considerations the now over 100 witnesses who do remember the high school days, the time and date of the parties, who was there etc, and everyone is willing to testify under oath that Kavanaugh they knew was polar opposite of what the accuser states, compared to 3 (or is it 4 now?) allegations carefully worded to avoid perjury and who refuse to testify under oath. The Occam's razor principle is simply what happened, a political ploy.

Still, having said that. I think do not delay the vote, but also do not stop the investigations either. If he is found guilty, then impeach and imprison him..

[Storm Rider]

1 hour ago, Calm said:

If he is lying about it now, that is not a meaningless statement about his current character (I am not saying he is or isn't, been preoccupied and have not put enough study into it to justify an opinion, imo).

That is a very big "IF". What is so heinous about these allegations is the almost impossibility of proving these allegations one way or the other. Do you see the letter written from 60 of his classmates and others that actually knew him denying the most recent screed found in the letter from Julie (forgot her last name)? 

We have an adult judge with a record of mentoring female attornies and judges, an impeccable record on one side and then the women out of the blue that allege...wait for it...he groped me. What was the condition of the Judge - falling down drunk. Now think about that for a moment. When a woman is falling down drunk she is not responsible for her actions. In fact, when she is that drunk she is to be protected, defended from herself and her actions.  The first "witness" to the fallen down drunk Kavanaugh was only partially under the influence. Who exactly was taking advantage of who? 

I have never in my life felt the need to have my buddy along when I wanted to kill a girl. Not once. But in this instance - out of the blue - we are to understand that Kavanaugh is such an exhibitionist.  What makes this allegation defensible? Simply because she is a woman I am supposed to immediately drop all mental faculties and bow at this goat of #ME TOO? This entire smear has me disgusted.

We have the Democratic Party on record as saying that would do anything to stop whoever was chosen by the current president. Well, this is anything and it is everything. I don't for a single minute believe the story of any of these witnesses.  I pray to God that he is sustained as a judge and then I would like to see the FBI investigate each of these witnesses, their entire lives from the moment of their birth until the present day. If they are found to by lying - lock'em up forever. No parole, no excuse, immediately put in high-security prison until their last breath along with their attornies and every other person that has aided in this charade. These are the kinds of things that destroy democracies and it must stop. 

[Duncan]

11 hours ago, bluebell said:

(I used mormon in the title of the thread because it's the title of the article).

Mormon Women's group calls on.....

"A coalition of women from the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints on Tuesday urged the Senate Judiciary Committee to suspend any confirmation vote on Supreme Court nominee Brett Kavanaugh until an investigation is completed into claims of sexual misconduct.

The Mormon Women for Ethical Government, which identified itself as a nonpartisan group comprising about 6,000 members, directed its message at every member of the judiciary panel but specifically called on the four Mormons on the committee, Sens. Orrin Hatch (R-Utah), Jeff Flake (R-Ariz.), Mike Lee (R-Utah) and Mike Crapo (R-Idaho.)

“Our mutual faith teaches that any sexual abuse or assault in any context is contemptible and worthy of the most severe condemnation,” the group said in a statement. “If these accusations are proved false, an investigation will prevent harm to the court’s legitimacy. If they are true, then Judge Kavanaugh must not be confirmed.”

 

Has anyone ever heard of this group?  This is the first time I've heard of it.  Kudos to them though for getting involved.

 

"Earlier this month, Christine Blasey Ford accused the nominee of pinning her to bed and trying to remove her clothes when they were both at a party during their high school years. A second woman, Deborah Ramirez, came forward Sunday and alleged that Kavanaugh exposed himself and thrust his penis in her face at a party when they both attended Yale University. Both have asked for an  FBI investigation into their claims.

Kavanaugh has vehemently denied the allegations.

“Such allegations must be taken seriously and thoroughly investigated,” Tuesday’s letter reads. “If we brush them aside, or minimize them, or excuse them away because ‘he was young’ or ‘he was drunk,’ we are sending an appalling and incredibly damaging message to both the young women AND the young men of our country.”

Sharlee Mullins Glenn, the group’s founder and president, told The New York Times that none of the four senators has responded to the letter."

"That decision has prompted condemnation, including from the group of women in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS).

“Stop pushing forward despite the clear objections of Dr. Blasey Ford, Deborah Ramirez, and millions of other women across the country,” the group wrote Tuesday. “Women comprise half of your constituents. If you truly respect women, then demonstrate it by honoring our requests to go slowly here. The appalling audacity of some of your colleagues in declaring their intention to simply take this seat with or without the broad support of women everywhere is just as troubling as the allegations against Kavanaugh. In fact, the irony is chilling.”

 

I don't know if it's going to be possible to discuss this issue without things getting political, but I thought it was interesting enough to give it a try.  Should the LDS senators involved care at all what the Mormon Women for Ethical Government think?

 

I think he's a fair voice in all this chaos, I don't know if this group got to him or what his views were prior to but we'll see what happens

[Duncan]

12 minutes ago, Storm Rider said:

That is a very big "IF". What is so heinous about these allegations is the almost impossibility of proving these allegations one way or the other. Do you see the letter written from 60 of his classmates and others that actually knew him denying the most recent screed found in the letter from Julie (forgot her last name)? 

We have an adult judge with a record of mentoring female attornies and judges, an impeccable record on one side and then the women out of the blue that allege...wait for it...he groped me. What was the condition of the Judge - falling down drunk. Now think about that for a moment. When a woman is falling down drunk she is not responsible for her actions. In fact, when she is that drunk she is to be protected, defended from herself and her actions.  The first "witness" to the fallen down drunk Kavanaugh was only partially under the influence. Who exactly was taking advantage of who? 

I have never in my life felt the need to have my buddy along when I wanted to kill a girl. Not once. But in this instance - out of the blue - we are to understand that Kavanaugh is such an exhibitionist.  What makes this allegation defensible? Simply because she is a woman I am supposed to immediately drop all mental faculties and bow at this goat of #ME TOO? This entire smear has me disgusted.

We have the Democratic Party on record as saying that would do anything to stop whoever was chosen by the current president. Well, this is anything and it is everything. I don't for a single minute believe the story of any of these witnesses.  I pray to God that he is sustained as a judge and then I would like to see the FBI investigate each of these witnesses, their entire lives from the moment of their birth until the present day. If they are found to by lying - lock'em up forever. No parole, no excuse, immediately put in high-security prison until their last breath along with their attornies and every other person that has aided in this charade. These are the kinds of things that destroy democracies and it must stop. 

that's just messed up thinking, just because he is a nice guy to you doesn't mean he was not nice to others. There has to be someone else out there with less baggage than Kavanaugh, why can't they pick someone else? What are the republican afraid of? I for one am glad that women are getting heard and men who take advantage of women are getting what's coming to them. 

Edited September 27, 2018 by Duncan

[Glenn101]

4 hours ago, ALarson said:

If none of these women ever made a complain or filed any charges (with the school or with the police), nothing would have shown up regarding these accusations on a background check, right? 

That is not correct. I went through background checks when I was in the military and know others that did. People are sent to check out every aspect of your life, from youth on up. Family, friends, neighbors, teachers, and people,  will be sought out and interviewed.  They look for things like drug use, reputation, police records, DWI's, violence, sexual reports etc. I do not know all the details as things have changed over the years, but they put me and a few people that I knew who underwent background checks for top secret clearances under a microscope. One of my Uncles had attended some Ku Klux Klan meetings and they questioned me about that. Fortunately I had led a very boring life in rural mid-Eastern North Carolina.

But is is strange to me that with the allegations that have been made, especially this last one, that the FBI background report did not include some of that stuff. I have not seen the reports, but I hope that the Senate Judiciary Committee has seen them. I would expect that Mark Judge would never be able to get a security clearance. (Now someone is going to do a search and find out, yep, Mark Judge indeed was granted ..........)

I have not read through to the last of the posts but I will put my two cents worth in now. I believe that Doctor Ford underwent some kind of traumatic experience. But our memories and senses are tricky things. Anyone who thinks that Doctor Ford could not be mistaken needs to read the Jennifer Thompson story. She was raped in 1984 while in college. During the attack she memorized every feature of her attacker's face so that she could bring him to justice. After she reported her attack she was able to identify her attacker from a police photo, then she again identified him in a lineup. Her identification sent this man to jail. Later on another man in prison bragged about raping her and on the basis of that, the man she had accused obtained another trial. During the trial Jennifer was shown a photograph of the man who had bragged that he raped her. She said that she had never seen him and the ma she believed had attacked her went back to prison. The problem is that in 1995 DNA tests proved that the man who had bragged was really the man who had raped her.

Now the problem I have with Doctor Ford's story is that she cannot remember where the party was except the general vicinity, when it occurred, except she thinks that it was in the summer of 1982, how she got there, nor how she got home. That leaves Judge Kavanaugh no way to defend himself. Another problem that I have is that none of the witnesses that she named as being at the party remember it, including a lifelong friend that also says she does not even know Judge Kavanaugh and never did.

There are similar problems with the second witness. In addition, she had to massage her memory for six days and then was able to remember Brett Kavanaugh and someone naming him, although she admits to being really inebriated.

I have not done a thorough analysis of the last accuser yet. It is the most graphic, but yet it is really short on any type of specifics as to times and places. Again it leaves Judge Kavanaugh no avenue to mount any type of specific defense. This one is the most pernicious.

On the other hand, Judge Kavanaugh has had a lot of people come forward from his high school days on, including women who dated him, to testify to his integrity, and to say that such actions are not in character for Judge Kavanaugh.

As far as polygraph tests, a good polygraph examiner can determine when a normal person is being untruthful. The really good ones can also spot a person who can lie without causing a bump on the needles. But none of them can determine if a person is telling something that is not true but sincerely believes that it is. I have had to take a few in my time as conditions of employment, etc. I am a bit of a nervous type and usually had to go through the list three times before I could settle down enough to get through a session.

Glenn

 

Edited to add this: When I was in high school we had a coterie of party types. Out schools were small and often those parties happened in other parts of the county, a lot of times with the idea that news of the antics at the party would not get back to the parents. I do know that there was a pretty prevalent practice where a guy would head out on a binge and claim to be another person in the school. There were some reputations muddied that way and a few made that way, depending upon your viewpoint. I was a victim of that once myself when a girl I did not know heard my name at a gathering. I do not remember the details. I just remember her yelling my name at me and going off about I supposedly had done. I can vaguely remember red hair and glasses. I could never convince her that it was not me. Fortunately I never saw her again.

Edited September 27, 2018 by Glenn101
Added another thought

[Storm Rider]

1 hour ago, ALarson said:

It matters what he did in the past (especially if he was involved in sexually abusing others).  Just because he was young when it took place, we are just supposed to ignore it or give him a pass?  And, how do you know he "has been perfect as an adult"?  You really believe he's perfect?

 

Let's assume that as a teenager you attempted to do something wrong, you did not actually do anything, but the attempt was there  - I know, it is a gigantic assumption on my part. Since your teenage years you began your career, been a stellar citizen, and a great mentor to both men and women in your industry. For decades you rose in prominence in your industry and have been successful in reaching the heights of your industry without ever a whiff of wrong-doing. Everyone lauds your character and accomplishments. At this point in your career, you are considered for an award. Out of the blue, an individual that you do not know and have no memory of having ever met under any circumstance comes forward and states that you ATTEMPTED to do something wrong. You did not actually do anything, but you THOUGHT about it.  Based upon these allegations, no evidence was ever presented, but simply relying on this unknown person's word, you are deemed completely, totally, eternally unworthy of the award or anything else. Assuming you think such an action is valid, do you think you might want someone to raise their hand up and say, "Hold on a minute.  I know this man, I have investigated his career and his accomplishments. I have talked with and had testimony from his associates that have demonstrated his high standards of service and professionalism. I have reviewed his actions and what he has wrote, and all of this conflicts with what he may have thought about doing as a teenager. In the scales of life, why do his thoughts as a teenager so utterly condemn him?"  If you are ready to condemn him, I hope that one day you learn about mercy and how much you will need it. 

[Storm Rider]

8 minutes ago, Duncan said:

that's just messed up thinking, just because he is a nice guy to you doesn't mean he was not nice to others. There has to be someone else out there with less baggage than Kavanaugh, why can't they pick someone else? What are the republican afraid of? I for one am glad that women are getting heard and men who take advantage of women are getting what's coming to them. 

I think I am done. I don't care enough about this caliber of discussion to go further. He is not a "nice guy" - he has proven to be one of the highest rated judges in the USA. He has been a stellar example of mentoring women and men. He is not some yokel that was picked out of a sack. You might want to spend just a little bit of time actually studying his life, what others have said about him in his career, and with those who have worked for him as a judge before you can sit on your throne of perfection and deem him unworthy.  And why is he unworthy? Not because he did anything, but because of what he alleged to have done as a 17-year-old boy.  Then I want you to understand that you will be judged by that same standard. 

[Duncan]

8 minutes ago, Storm Rider said:

 

Let's assume that as a teenager you attempted to do something wrong, you did not actually do anything, but the attempt was there  - I know, it is a gigantic assumption on my part. Since your teenage years you began your career, been a stellar citizen, and a great mentor to both men and women in your industry. For decades you rose in prominence in your industry and have been successful in reaching the heights of your industry without ever a whiff of wrong-doing. Everyone lauds your character and accomplishments. At this point in your career, you are considered for an award. Out of the blue, an individual that you do not know and have no memory of having ever met under any circumstance comes forward and states that you ATTEMPTED to do something wrong. You did not actually do anything, but you THOUGHT about it.  Based upon these allegations, no evidence was ever presented, but simply relying on this unknown person's word, you are deemed completely, totally, eternally unworthy of the award or anything else. Assuming you think such an action is valid, do you think you might want someone to raise their hand up and say, "Hold on a minute.  I know this man, I have investigated his career and his accomplishments. I have talked with and had testimony from his associates that have demonstrated his high standards of service and professionalism. I have reviewed his actions and what he has wrote, and all of this conflicts with what he may have thought about doing as a teenager. In the scales of life, why do his thoughts as a teenager so utterly condemn him?"  If you are ready to condemn him, I hope that one day you learn about mercy and how much you will need it. 

Do you deny his yearbook saying he was the "treasurer of the Keg City Club-100 kegs or Bust"? and his friend Mark Judge wrote that book, "Wasted" in 1997 and guess who it talks about..........Mark Judge remembers

[Duncan]

3 minutes ago, Storm Rider said:

I think I am done. I don't care enough about this caliber of discussion to go further. He is not a "nice guy" - he has proven to be one of the highest rated judges in the USA. He has been a stellar example of mentoring women and men. He is not some yokel that was picked out of a sack. You might want to spend just a little bit of time actually studying his life, what others have said about him in his career, and with those who have worked for him as a judge before you can sit on your throne of perfection and deem him unworthy.  And why is he unworthy? Not because he did anything, but because of what he alleged to have done as a 17-year-old boy.  Then I want you to understand that you will be judged by that same standard. 

except I haven't ever tried to rape anyone or was frequently drunk in High School or ever since, or think that sexual assault is normal- so i'll be fine but thank you for your regard

[Anijen]

7 minutes ago, Duncan said:

Do you deny his yearbook saying he was the "treasurer of the Keg City Club-100 kegs or Bust"? and his friend Mark Judge wrote that book, "Wasted" in 1997 and guess who it talks about..........Mark Judge remembers

Ok.

This yearbook entry does absolutely nothing to even imply Kavanaugh was a rapist.