Is Facebook taking the place of ministry?

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

Recently I had to have a procedure(s) done for my heart. Many Sunday's prior, I missed a lot due to a lack of energy, combined with other health problems. Today I returned to Church after a long absence, and was greeted by many "brothers", all whom had no idea where I had been. Many with concerned eyes, as if they thought I had gone inactive, or on the brink. Some even making comments that confirmed this idea. Even my Elders Quorum President was unaware, probably my Bishop was unaware. I have no issues, as I know that the world does not orbit around me. But, there was a time when such information would be a major topic of discussion in Bishopric meetings. But now, Elders Quorum Presidents are consumed with the issues of so many others in our Ward, with responsibly over a hundred Elders, perspective Elders, High a Priests, and the families of all. 

The point of this thread is the ask the question, "is Facebook (unintentionally) taking the place of one on one ministry"? My Facebook friends knew of my health problems, but in all meetings it never came up. I am a big boy and  have a large family, and support system. But I worry that others in the Church may be falling through the cracks. Is there an assumption that if someone posts on Facebook, or other social platforms, that if anything were wrong, someone in the Ward would inform a Priesthood leader? Also many Sisters in the Ward who are not mentioned, and especially the single Sisters who used to be the responsibility of the High Priests, my wife has informed who are not mentioned as much. My guess is that they assume all others knew, and have acted on that information. These fears are also confirmed by the knowledge that many Sisters are also absent from meetings, where little if ever is discussed concerning their absence, or so my wife informs me. 

Facebook is great for keeping tabs on friends, and finding old friends, such is my recent ability to catch up with my friends from four decades ago, from Germany when I joined the Church. But nothing, can or should take the place of one on one ministry, as the Saviour preformed. Nothing can or should take the place of a warm handshake, and the message that only eye to eye contact to make others feel loved and cared for. Recently, a list was passed around, asking members of the Quorum, "who would you like to minister too"? I was the last to receive the list, and my name appeared nowhere. Again, I am not bemoaning my issues, but fear that many others are "not" being ministered too. When I received the list, I inquired and asked, "why are so many listed a number of times, and others (such as my neighbor, and a new member) not listed"? So, I signed up to minister to him, despite my many health problems. I am trying to be patient, and understanding as we attempt to wade through the new waters, but I am concerned. Now my neighbor has moved, and I worry what will happen in his new environment.   

Just wanted to open this up for discussion. I desire to contribute to Fast Sunday's discussion concerning lesson and issues that need to be on the agenda for September.

God bless you all,

"Papa"

[Jeanne]

Quote

 

Forget the quote above...duh.  But I don't get info from facebook at all unless it is close family and friends.  What happens in my personal life is mine as far as facebook goes.  But this is my only communication with those who cannot share email.  I don't think nor do I even hope that facebook will replace real works and any divinity.  That being said..facebook finds missing people and gives support in other ways. Spirituality is a personal thing.  Even if one taps on facebook a group or a new religion, it doesn't work without extreme individual reflection and understanding.

[Prof]

First, glad that you are feeling better!

Second, I think "ministering" taking the place of home/visit teaching may have allowed things like this to happen. Normally in my ward, the home teachers would mention something like this in Priesthood to remind the ward to keep a ward member in their prayers. The shift to ministry seems to have loosened that link and responsibility. 

Facebook, as used as part of ministry has some advantages. Convienience, quick interaction, up to date information, etc. Indeed, this week I posted that a boy passed his Eagle Scout board so the whole ward would know. That certainly didn't replace the congratulations from people in the ward face to face.

I am also concerned about the single sisters. I fear they may fall through the cracks.

Additionally, there is a lot of trash on Facebook, and some may choose not to use it for that reason, and miss out on ward announcements.

[Calm]

The ministering program is a great change, imo, but I think a lot of wards don't understand how to make it work for them yet.

I think/hope as time goes on with wards demonstrating what works and what doesn't, there will be more direction.

Edited August 12, 2018 by Calm

[Duncan]

I find I find out more on facebook that I do on council meetings and sometimes too what you see or read on facebook is passed on to a ward council meeting

[Tacenda]

2 hours ago, Prof said:

First, glad that you are feeling better!

Second, I think "ministering" taking the place of home/visit teaching may have allowed things like this to happen. Normally in my ward, the home teachers would mention something like this in Priesthood to remind the ward to keep a ward member in their prayers. The shift to ministry seems to have loosened that link and responsibility. 

Facebook, as used as part of ministry has some advantages. Convienience, quick interaction, up to date information, etc. Indeed, this week I posted that a boy passed his Eagle Scout board so the whole ward would know. That certainly didn't replace the congratulations from people in the ward face to face.

I am also concerned about the single sisters. I fear they may fall through the cracks.

Additionally, there is a lot of trash on Facebook, and some may choose not to use it for that reason, and miss out on ward announcements.

100% agree, I believe this new program is a mistake, now people think they have 3 months to make a visit/call/text/whatever. My opinion and hopefully I'm proven wrong. 

In the past if you had good home teachers this would have been caught. Sorry that you had that happen PaPa.

Edited August 12, 2018 by Tacenda

[Jeanne]

17 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

100% agree, I believe this new program is a mistake, now people think they have 3 months to make a visit/call/text/whatever. My opinion and hopefully I'm proven wrong. 

In the past if you had good home teachers this would have been caught. Sorry that you had that happen PaPa.

I hear you,,...but I want you to know that I value your facebook friendship.

[Tacenda]

16 minutes ago, Jeanne said:

I hear you,,...but I want you to know that I value your facebook friendship.

Same here! Even though it's through cyberspace I very much believe in you as my friend!

BTW, in my old ward/neighborhood they have a private FB group and it's been nice to get the word out and mention people that may need help albeit food/prayer or visit and cheering up. But my current ward lacks this, and even lacks a paper ward directory and map to show where each member lives.  They just tell everyone to go on LDS.org tools for the map of our ward boundaries, and not everyone has a computer or internet. It's been a very difficult move/ward for sure. My ward is scattered throughout Layton, I'm guessing because of the inactivity level. 

Edited August 12, 2018 by Tacenda

[Jeanne]

59 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

Same here! Even though it's through cyberspace I very much believe in you as my friend!

BTW, in my old ward/neighborhood they have a private FB group and it's been nice to get the word out and mention people that may need help albeit food/prayer or visit and cheering up. But my current ward lacks this, and even lacks a paper ward directory and map to show where each member lives.  They just tell everyone to go on LDS.org tools for the map of our ward boundaries, and not everyone has a computer or internet. It's been a very difficult move/ward for sure. My ward is scattered throughout Layton, I'm guessing because of the inactivity level. 

This is tough...there has to be a better way!! 

[mnn727]

4 hours ago, Prof said:

 

Additionally, there is a lot of trash on Facebook

While I have a facebook account, I may look at it once every few months. I see very little good that it does.

[CA Steve]

Since the ministering program was instituted I have no idea who is my current minister.

 

 

[Guest]

8 hours ago, Jeanne said:

Forget the quote above...duh.  But I don't get info from facebook at all unless it is close family and friends.  What happens in my personal life is mine as far as facebook goes.  But this is my only communication with those who cannot share email.  I don't think nor do I even hope that facebook will replace real works and any divinity.  That being said..facebook finds missing people and gives support in other ways. Spirituality is a personal thing.  Even if one taps on facebook a group or a new religion, it doesn't work without extreme individual reflection and understanding.

I understand, but my posts everything concerning my health, life, etc., therefore it is unavoidable that others know in and out of Church.

[Guest]

3 hours ago, CA Steve said:

Since the ministering program was instituted I have no idea who is my current minister.

 

 

Ditto...

[Guest]

3 hours ago, mnn727 said:

While I have a facebook account, I may look at it once every few months. I see very little good that it does.

Well, for a broken down old man between surgeries and procedures, it allows me to get outside my ever shrinking world. It has also allowed me to get in touch with old Army buddies, from back in the day. Although I used Facebook as a platform, it was not the topic I wished or thought would be addressed. So, yes...I am someone who uses it more than many. 

[Rain]

6 hours ago, CA Steve said:

Since the ministering program was instituted I have no idea who is my current minister.

 

 

Now it is easier than ever to find out who ministers to you. Go to lds tools app or lds.or and find yourself and then click on the ministering link.

[Rain]

What I am finding is that those who were ministering before are ministering now. Those who were checking off a list aren't doing much now. 

In so many ways I can see it is inspired. 

It is helping some think outside of the box. Before they might have felt you had to have a lesson once a month. Now some recognize that instead someone might need a walk around the block, time spent together cleaning a kitchen, a quick text "good luck on your test". 

Ministering might be checking facebook and seeing someone asking to borrow a video of Paint Your Wagon and then you run the copy to them. I've found that facebook does not replace ministering, but can help me be a better ministering sister.

[Calm]

I think it is important during the transition (which may take years) to be more proactive in expressing your needs, reaching out to your ministers.

Those who don't trust themselves enough to be independent, secondguess themselves a lot may refrain from trying now they don't have as many deadlines and directions, so it is important that we help them learn we are okay with mistakes, it is the trying we appreciate.

[HappyJackWagon]

Personally, I think FB is a great tool. It allows a person to share what they want to share without being talked about excessively in meetings. Ward FB groups have kind of become a clearinghouse for information. Instead of just a few people knowing in a council meeting, anyone who wants to keep tabs can, simply by reviewing the FB page. If someone chooses not to participate in the FB group, that's their choice, but it is a choice with consequences. The truth is, they will probably be much less informed, even if they attend council meetings.

In our ward, the EQ still hasn't made any ministering assignments so FB works great to keep tabs on people by providing information that can be acted upon. How much info is discussed in council and never goes beyond that? People organize their own moving parties through FB. They keep people informed of health issues. They help arrange rides to activities etc. In many ways its an easier way to communicate and make sure things get done than calling the EQ Pres and hoping he follows through getting help for a move. IN some ways FB is a powerful tool because official church organizations haven't always worked.

BTW- the way the EQ passed around a list to sign up for assignments is lazy.

[CA Steve]

9 hours ago, Rain said:

Now it is easier than ever to find out who ministers to you. Go to lds tools app or lds.or and find yourself and then click on the ministering link.

Thanks, but I think I would prefer to find out by the person(s) assigned telling me. 

[clarkgoble]

23 hours ago, Bill "Papa" Lee said:

Recently I had to have a procedure(s) done for my heart.

Good luck. In spring I had to have open heart surgery due to an infection. Ugh. Frustrating how long it takes to get back to normal. I'm working out at the gym two hours a day and I'm still not remotely where I want to be, although I'm not the mess I was in June.

23 hours ago, Bill "Papa" Lee said:

The point of this thread is the ask the question, "is Facebook (unintentionally) taking the place of one on one ministry"? My Facebook friends knew of my health problems, but in all meetings it never came up. I am a big boy and  have a large family, and support system. But I worry that others in the Church may be falling through the cracks. Is there an assumption that if someone posts on Facebook, or other social platforms, that if anything were wrong, someone in the Ward would inform a Priesthood leader? Also many Sisters in the Ward who are not mentioned, and especially the single Sisters who used to be the responsibility of the High Priests, my wife has informed who are not mentioned as much. My guess is that they assume all others knew, and have acted on that information. These fears are also confirmed by the knowledge that many Sisters are also absent from meetings, where little if ever is discussed concerning their absence, or so my wife informs me. 

I worry about this too. Facebook is incredibly useful. Many (most?) people in the ward use it but it's kind of problematic in some ways. After all not everything you write in Facebook might be something you want the ward to be reading.

Honestly what I'd really like the Church to do is to come out with a private social network. That way people can find out what people are doing, what's going on, people can know about activities and so forth. Facebook just isn't ideal. Especially for people like me who rarely use the service.

That said ideally the Elders Quorum should be addressing this publicly so people know who is in trouble. Part of the problem though is the whole shift from Home Teaching to Ministering has everyone confused. There's been some training but it's not too helpful for people, like myself, who are in primary or have callings so they're not in priesthood. I think most wards are struggling to figure out the changes. The reality is, whether it should happen or not, lots of things are falling through the cracks due to the changes. My guess is that it'll be a few years before everything gets figured out and adjusted. (My guess is that many of the old structures of Home Teaching get reintroduced - the current system relies too much on people being pro-active without having a way to know about what is actually going on)

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, clarkgoble said:

Good luck. In spring I had to have open heart surgery due to an infection. Ugh. Frustrating how long it takes to get back to normal. I'm working out at the gym two hours a day and I'm still not remotely where I want to be, although I'm not the mess I was in June.

I pray for success in your surgery, my brother underwent this a year ago. The day I was checking out of the hospital, the nurse was saying that if I experienced any depression that I could contact X. X representing a number of doctors and support groups. I thought this information was rather odd. Odd until I slipped into a large black hole of depression, something I am still dealing with. But, I am not big on talking out my issues, so I will write myself out, or crawl if I must. 

[HappyJackWagon]

16 minutes ago, clarkgoble said:

Good luck. In spring I had to have open heart surgery due to an infection. Ugh. Frustrating how long it takes to get back to normal. I'm working out at the gym two hours a day and I'm still not remotely where I want to be, although I'm not the mess I was in June.

I worry about this too. Facebook is incredibly useful. Many (most?) people in the ward use it but it's kind of problematic in some ways. After all not everything you write in Facebook might be something you want the ward to be reading.

Honestly what I'd really like the Church to do is to come out with a private social network. That way people can find out what people are doing, what's going on, people can know about activities and so forth. Facebook just isn't ideal. Especially for people like me who rarely use the service.

That said ideally the Elders Quorum should be addressing this publicly so people know who is in trouble. Part of the problem though is the whole shift from Home Teaching to Ministering has everyone confused. There's been some training but it's not too helpful for people, like myself, who are in primary or have callings so they're not in priesthood. I think most wards are struggling to figure out the changes. The reality is, whether it should happen or not, lots of things are falling through the cracks due to the changes. My guess is that it'll be a few years before everything gets figured out and adjusted. (My guess is that many of the old structures of Home Teaching get reintroduced - the current system relies too much on people being pro-active without having a way to know about what is actually going on)

It really doesn't seem like this change should be all that confusing, does it? Of course my ward hasn't implemented any kind of change (other than combining quorums) so maybe I'm not seeing the intricacies. So far I'm just seeing "ministry" as the new catch phrase.

[clarkgoble]

4 minutes ago, Bill "Papa" Lee said:

I pray for success in your surgery, my brother underwent this a year ago. The day I was checking out of the hospital, the nurse was saying that if I experienced any depression that I could contact X. X representing a number of doctors and support groups. I thought this information was rather odd. Odd until I slipped into a large black hole of depression, something I am still dealing with. But, I am not big on talking out my issues, so I will write myself out, or crawl if I must. 

Yeah I thought it was very funny they kept asking me about that. I actually laughed first time they asked. But apparently it is common although I'm not sure how much is due to the physical trauma/reactions and how much is just people psychologically being upset at losing control of their body. (And confronting their mortality) I luckily never experienced it. If anything I had an increased optimism surprisingly.

[clarkgoble]

1 minute ago, HappyJackWagon said:

It really doesn't seem like this change should be all that confusing, does it? Of course my ward hasn't implemented any kind of change (other than combining quorums) so maybe I'm not seeing the intricacies. So far I'm just seeing "ministry" as the new catch phrase.

The main problem is you don't have people going in the house every month. Secondly because there's not statistics now, people don't feel the need to make a monthly visit. So despite all my problems of late, my minister has just said hello a few times. Honestly when we've had troubles I've called my old Home Teachers because I know them so much better. I also don't think assignments are being made reliably from what I hear about other wards. It happens even my ward. I've yet to be assigned for instance - partially I suspect due to the health issues. It's just been the last two weeks I've been able to stay the full three hours at church and start teaching primary again. I think our ward also has more problems than the typical ward because it's so transitory. We have some apartments that make up about ⅓ of the ward. People move in an out regularly there - about half are students as well. It's hard to maintain stability so that peoples needs are met. Also many in the apartments don't like to take callings for whatever reason leading to other issues. It's very easy for things to fall between the cracks when you don't have people formally visiting people. Expecting the Bishopric and EQ/RS to know everything that's going on with such transitions is pretty difficult.

[HappyJackWagon]

29 minutes ago, clarkgoble said:

The main problem is you don't have people going in the house every month. Secondly because there's not statistics now, people don't feel the need to make a monthly visit. So despite all my problems of late, my minister has just said hello a few times. Honestly when we've had troubles I've called my old Home Teachers because I know them so much better. I also don't think assignments are being made reliably from what I hear about other wards. It happens even my ward. I've yet to be assigned for instance - partially I suspect due to the health issues. It's just been the last two weeks I've been able to stay the full three hours at church and start teaching primary again. I think our ward also has more problems than the typical ward because it's so transitory. We have some apartments that make up about ⅓ of the ward. People move in an out regularly there - about half are students as well. It's hard to maintain stability so that peoples needs are met. Also many in the apartments don't like to take callings for whatever reason leading to other issues. It's very easy for things to fall between the cracks when you don't have people formally visiting people. Expecting the Bishopric and EQ/RS to know everything that's going on with such transitions is pretty difficult.

I think things have been falling through the cracks for a very long time. Doesn't really matter if you call it home teaching or ministering and I don't really think it matters if someone comes to the home every month. That would only matter if HT was viewed primarily as an intelligence gathering program. If people are looking out for others, it shouldn't be all that complicated. Assignments can be made. Leaders follow up to see that expectations of the assignments are being met. They can pass on info as needed.

Frankly, I think many at pretending that ministering is some complicated system so they feel better about giving their leaders a pass for inaction and poor organization.