Guest Posted August 13, 2018 Posted August 13, 2018 29 minutes ago, clarkgoble said: Yeah I thought it was very funny they kept asking me about that. I actually laughed first time they asked. But apparently it is common although I'm not sure how much is due to the physical trauma/reactions and how much is just people psychologically being upset at losing control of their body. (And confronting their mortality) I luckily never experienced it. If anything I had an increased optimism surprisingly. I pray it remains that way my brother, although I went through it, well I still am. So if you need too, see someone, that is just not for me. Also, I do not wish to have my wife worry about something else. I have been blessed with the gift to write poetry, and poetry that allows me to excise most of my demons through my writing. Anyway, you will be in my prayers, that sadly fall on deaf ears. I worry sometimes that, although Gid loves me, he does not like me much. But then again, who does?
clarkgoble Posted August 13, 2018 Posted August 13, 2018 1 minute ago, HappyJackWagon said: I think things have been falling through the cracks for a very long time. Doesn't really matter if you call it home teaching or ministering and I don't really think it matters if someone comes to the home every month. That would only matter if HT was viewed primarily as an intelligence gathering program. I don't think it has to be viewed primarily as intelligence gathering. But knowledge has to come somehow. Expecting leaders to magically know seems problematic. Certainly you're right people fall through cracks. I can think of several sad cases just in my current ward over the years. Even back in HT days not everyone visited regularly. Those that did often did so in a perfunctory fashion. And there are social incentives against proactively telling leaders about your problems. However not having any regular visits would seem to make the situation worse, not better. My sense is that the hope is that the shift from Home Teaching & Visiting Teaching to Ministering is supposed to raise to place of neighbors. However that works better in dense Mormon areas than in areas outside of the Mormon belt. Further, it presupposes that neighbors know everything that's going on and report it to the EQ/RS. Honestly my big worry with the new system is that we'll have far less rather than more knowledge about what's going on in wards. 1 minute ago, HappyJackWagon said: If people are looking out for others, it shouldn't be all that complicated. Assignments can be made. Leaders follow up to see that expectations of the assignments are being met. They can pass on info as needed. But people can only look out for others when they know what is going on. Certainly once something is known all you say follows. The question is how on earth things get known. I also think all of this neglects the introvert/extrovert distinction as well as simply time constrains on people. When there's structure and feedback/limited shame even introverts are apt to more actively engage with others in the ward. Without that introverts and people with limited time just aren't going to do it as much, even if they should.
HappyJackWagon Posted August 13, 2018 Posted August 13, 2018 2 hours ago, clarkgoble said: I don't think it has to be viewed primarily as intelligence gathering. But knowledge has to come somehow. Expecting leaders to magically know seems problematic. Certainly you're right people fall through cracks. I can think of several sad cases just in my current ward over the years. Even back in HT days not everyone visited regularly. Those that did often did so in a perfunctory fashion. And there are social incentives against proactively telling leaders about your problems. However not having any regular visits would seem to make the situation worse, not better. My sense is that the hope is that the shift from Home Teaching & Visiting Teaching to Ministering is supposed to raise to place of neighbors. However that works better in dense Mormon areas than in areas outside of the Mormon belt. Further, it presupposes that neighbors know everything that's going on and report it to the EQ/RS. Honestly my big worry with the new system is that we'll have far less rather than more knowledge about what's going on in wards. But people can only look out for others when they know what is going on. Certainly once something is known all you say follows. The question is how on earth things get known. I also think all of this neglects the introvert/extrovert distinction as well as simply time constrains on people. When there's structure and feedback/limited shame even introverts are apt to more actively engage with others in the ward. Without that introverts and people with limited time just aren't going to do it as much, even if they should. And this is why FB can be a great tool for ministry, not something to be concerned about.
Tacenda Posted August 13, 2018 Posted August 13, 2018 2 hours ago, Bill "Papa" Lee said: I pray it remains that way my brother, although I went through it, well I still am. So if you need too, see someone, that is just not for me. Also, I do not wish to have my wife worry about something else. I have been blessed with the gift to write poetry, and poetry that allows me to excise most of my demons through my writing. Anyway, you will be in my prayers, that sadly fall on deaf ears. I worry sometimes that, although Gid loves me, he does not like me much. But then again, who does? We do Papa! 💕Cyberlove is almost as good right? I feel like this board knows me better than my own family does! I'm thankful for that, because I rely on this board to be able to say what I really think. If I did that outside of this board, people would think I was nuts, because it's mostly chit chat, out there. I'm lucky my husband hasn't left me, for all I've said and gone through. I sometimes wish I was just normal, and didn't have all these agendas.
mnn727 Posted August 13, 2018 Posted August 13, 2018 (edited) 18 hours ago, Bill "Papa" Lee said: It has also allowed me to get in touch with old Army buddies, from back in the day. I certainly do not want to end it for people who use it (well, other than my wife perhaps......) But people often use the argument about old friends, school mates, etc. The way I feel about that is if they haven't kept up with you then they're not actually your friend. I do have friends in other states that I have kept up with for 40 years in 2 of their cases and 20 years in a few other cases outside of facebook, we usually see each other every 3 or 4 years but keep up via phone and email the rest of the time. They are friends that I could count on, not just names/numbers on a screen. If it works for you - GREAT! Please continue to use it. To me its a big time waster -- different strokes for different folks. Edited August 13, 2018 by mnn727
Guest Posted August 14, 2018 Posted August 14, 2018 23 hours ago, mnn727 said: I certainly do not want to end it for people who use it (well, other than my wife perhaps......) But people often use the argument about old friends, school mates, etc. The way I feel about that is if they haven't kept up with you then they're not actually your friend. I do have friends in other states that I have kept up with for 40 years in 2 of their cases and 20 years in a few other cases outside of facebook, we usually see each other every 3 or 4 years but keep up via phone and email the rest of the time. They are friends that I could count on, not just names/numbers on a screen. If it works for you - GREAT! Please continue to use it. To me its a big time waster -- different strokes for different folks. It is not an argument, nor a defense of Facebook. But it is not that had to lose contact and addresses over decades, even with childhood friends. As for a "time waster", certainly so for those who have active lives. I however suffer from injuries, and lack of mobility, usually only moving from bed, to rocking chair, to recliner, and back. I am not trying to sell anyone on the idea of Facebook, nor sought to turn this thread into a Facebook debate. Our Ward and Stake have a Facebook group, thus my question concerning it vs ministering. If you only wish to debate the merits of Facebook , then by all means proceed. If you wish to discuss ministering, and need for one on one contact, or rather face to face contact, I would welcome it. It is clear that many in this thread have a dim view of Facebook, I get it. I am not seeking to promote it, as I am not a shareholder, and do not use it to excess by any means. In fact, not knowing how to close a thread, maybe someone could post how I can do it. I am sorry I even asked the question. Your comment that it is a "waste of time", and "different strokes for different strokes" , concerning my comments about keeping touch with "buddies", is a way of implying that I am wasting my time, and that if I actually had friends, they would keep in touch. Message received, so thank you.
Guest Posted August 14, 2018 Posted August 14, 2018 On August 13, 2018 at 3:26 PM, Tacenda said: We do Papa! 💕Cyberlove is almost as good right? I feel like this board knows me better than my own family does! I'm thankful for that, because I rely on this board to be able to say what I really think. If I did that outside of this board, people would think I was nuts, because it's mostly chit chat, out there. I'm lucky my husband hasn't left me, for all I've said and gone through. I sometimes wish I was just normal, and didn't have all these agendas. Thank you, but most don't speak their minds, or speak the unvarnished truth. I am beginning to wonder if doing so is ever a very good policy, because many get upset when it happens. Not everyone of course, but as always, "discretion is always the better part of valor". I expressed the similar feeling I did in this thread on Facebook, and have a lot of people frightened that I am becoming an apostate, via comments and phone calls. Nothing I said should in any way lead others to think this, as I spoke very highly of all my Priesthood leaders and the Church, and only posed questions, and how I feel like a ghost. My comment about, "feeling like a ghost", was based of the fact that I have spent 4+ years in the same house, but been in four Wards. The Church is growing rapidly in our area, so I do understand that not many people know me. My Ward of 30+ years is only 15 more mins away, so I am giving serious thought of attending there, since I have no callings, nor my wife. Our current Ward has to open the curtains weekly to the cultural hall to make room for so many members.
mnn727 Posted August 14, 2018 Posted August 14, 2018 2 hours ago, Bill "Papa" Lee said: Your comment that it is a "waste of time", and "different strokes for different strokes" , concerning my comments about keeping touch with "buddies", is a way of implying that I am wasting my time, and that if I actually had friends, they would keep in touch. Message received, so thank you. You see things I didn't post. If you find Facebook useful, then by all means use it. I don't and so I will not. Ministering IMO needs to be face to face whenever possible.
Guest Posted August 14, 2018 Posted August 14, 2018 6 minutes ago, mnn727 said: You see things I didn't post. If you find Facebook useful, then by all means use it. I don't and so I will not. Ministering IMO needs to be face to face whenever possible. I only quoted you, just a few posts back. I am OK, I not wounded.
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