Questions about Excommunication

[MorningStar]

On ‎9‎/‎3‎/‎2018 at 9:13 AM, Tacenda said:

The church has a pattern. They believe in full forgiveness for this man. But in doing that they forget the harm he may still do, because he may not be able to fully change or recover. The church should never have allowed him the position in the church which could in turn harm anyone. The church is silent on what this man did, but they shouldn't be, because you and others are in his path. 

Yes, I think everyone has the right to know. If he feels like people don't know, then he can try to get in good with them. My son is supposed to be their ministering brother too. Ugh. 

[MorningStar]

I really need to find out what the terms of this guy's probation was. After the last incident, my bishop told him never to touch me again. Then at Safeco Field after the devotional with President Nelson, my 16-year-old son told me he was using the urinal earlier on the very end and there were 5 not in use when that man came in, used the one right next to him, and said while peeing, "I really needed this. The bus ride was bumpy." Out of tens of thousands of people, that guy ended up in the same bathroom with my son at the same time and decides it's a good idea to pee next to him/talk to him right after the bishop gave him a talking to?! Not that he's definitely breaking any laws (unless he's violating his probation), but come on! 

His arrest was in 2010 and I know before his trial, the judge told him not to have any contact with minors and that he wasn't allowed to use a computer with Internet. Last night I discovered that in 2011, he was replying to people on his YouTube channel under his son's name, so it appears he was not obeying orders. I guess the only plausible explanation was that his Internet ban was lifted and was accidentally logged in as his son, but I highly doubt that. 

Also, I talked to a friend in my ward and found out the man's daughter-in-law offered to watch her kids overnight in their home (she was living with them at the time). This was just months ago. The bishop had made a comment that the woman didn't babysit in their home and she said, "You're wrong!" Told the bishop what happened and he said, "I'm calling them immediately to tell them that's not OK." Their daughter-in-law is very obviously on the spectrum and I just can't help but think the man put her up to it. And his wife - what the heck is she thinking?! If my husband lost his job and was arrested for that (and for some bizarre reason I chose to stay with him), I would never let a child in our home again. 

Furthermore, my same friend said during a wedding reception where there was plenty of space in a large yard, he "accidentally" bumped into her daughter who is about 11 and somehow ended up hanging out in the middle of a bunch of girls in that age range. He made eye contact with my friend and saw she was giving him stink eye and he looked startled. Yep. He knew what he was doing. That was less than two weeks ago. Urging my friend to tell the bishop about that. If that leads to nothing, we'll go to the stake president together. 

[MorningStar]

Just sent a public records request to the county. 

[Anijen]

2 hours ago, MorningStar said:

"I really need to find out what the terms of this guy's probation was. After the last incident, my bishop told him never to touch me again. Then at Safeco Field after the devotional with President Nelson, my 16-year-old son told me he was using the urinal earlier on the very end and there were 5 not in use when that man came in, used the one right next to him..."

I don't know too much about bathroom protocol, but in public restrooms, most men, know if there is a urinal to spare, one never chooses the one right next to the other guy. 

IMO, this guy is not learning the lessons he needs to learn. From what you have told us, I believe this guy is trouble waiting to happen. I know a little about behavioral analysis, this is troubling and could easily and probably will escalate especially with another more vulnerable, unknowing minor.  I hope not, but odds are it will.

[MorningStar]

36 minutes ago, Anijen said:

I don't know too much about bathroom protocol, but in public restrooms, most men, know if there is a urinal to spare, one never chooses the one right next to the other guy. 

IMO, this guy is not learning the lessons he needs to learn. From what you have told us, I believe this guy is trouble waiting to happen. I know a little about behavioral analysis, this is troubling and could easily and probably will escalate especially with another more vulnerable, unknowing minor.  I hope not, but odds are it will.

I agree. My very first experience with him involved him trying to get around the rules and the people who told him no before to conducting the music for an event. I was new to the stake and was probably sure I didn't know he was excommunicated, so no, he can't conduct stake events. If we didn't have a conductor already and I had said yes, I would be livid. Red flags galore for me and they keep increasing. 

[Tacenda]

On 7/8/2018 at 5:08 PM, MorningStar said:

We have a man in my ward who was exed for child images, but he still does musical numbers. I thought that wasn't allowed, but maybe I'm wrong? If they can't be called on to give prayers, why should they be allowed to do musical numbers? I've been asked repeatedly to accompany him and I don't want to be alone with him. He had thousands of images including 2-year-olds being abused. I have daughters who are 3 and 9 years old and don't want any connections with him period. He also tried to meet up with minors online. In our state, it only counted as one count and I don't know what time he served, if any. I already had to tell the bishop to ask him not to touch women in the ward and to assume we all know what he did. He has gone out of his way to touch me. 😠  I don't want to embarrass him. I just don't want any sort of interaction. He sent a request to connect with me on messenger and I declined, so the music chair called me and asked me to play for him. 

Months before our ward boundaries changes, I was called as stake music chair. He emailed me immediately, told me all of his credentials, and asked if he could conduct a big event we were having. We already had a director and she said, "He's a nice man, but that's not going to work out." She didn't even bother to tell me about his history. I met him at rehearsal and I was creeped out. I saw him handing out samples at a store and I was more creeped out. I saw him again handing out samples and couldn't bring myself to walk down his aisle after our last exchange. I finally had a prompting to google him when I got home and it was horrifying. A few months later our boundaries changed and he was in our ward, so it's good that I got a heads up that way because apparently no one else was going to warn me. 

He thinks we should be buddies because we're both musicians. Nope! 

What about the law, shouldn't he have been arrested for these crimes? The hundreds of children that are on the porn sites are abused right before his eyes and the law doesn't throw the book at him? Trying to hook up with minors?  

People like him are sick, and I don't think he is one to be able to rehabilitate, especially from the things you've said he's done since. I'm sad that the leaders in the wards don't warn it's members, someone like this being amongst the members in certain situations, members not knowing about him and letting the youth be around him, and sleepovers as well. Hopefully he's on the sex offenders registry. Is there a way to see if he served time, maybe a website? 

[MorningStar]

12 hours ago, Tacenda said:

What about the law, shouldn't he have been arrested for these crimes? The hundreds of children that are on the porn sites are abused right before his eyes and the law doesn't throw the book at him? Trying to hook up with minors?  

People like him are sick, and I don't think he is one to be able to rehabilitate, especially from the things you've said he's done since. I'm sad that the leaders in the wards don't warn it's members, someone like this being amongst the members in certain situations, members not knowing about him and letting the youth be around him, and sleepovers as well. Hopefully he's on the sex offenders registry. Is there a way to see if he served time, maybe a website? 

Our laws are messed up. There is no difference between a person who has a few files or thousands. They both count as one count of possession and that needs to change. He had over 2,000 files on his thumb drive and I have no idea how they handled his admission as to communicating with minors, so that's why I have requested the records. I haven't heard back yet. Level one offenders aren't published and he's considered low risk to reoffend. I don't understand why. I know years ago his entire ward knew and now with the boundary changes, many people don't know and since he was considered low level and it was "a long time ago" bishop doesn't want to treat him as if it just happened. If my friend will talk to him about his "accidental" bump into her daughter, hopefully he'll change his mind about that. 

[bluebell]

20 minutes ago, MorningStar said:

Our laws are messed up. There is no difference between a person who has a few files or thousands. They both count as one count of possession and that needs to change. He had over 2,000 files on his thumb drive and I have no idea how they handled his admission as to communicating with minors, so that's why I have requested the records. I haven't heard back yet. Level one offenders aren't published and he's considered low risk to reoffend. I don't understand why. I know years ago his entire ward knew and now with the boundary changes, many people don't know and since he was considered low level and it was "a long time ago" bishop doesn't want to treat him as if it just happened. If my friend will talk to him about his "accidental" bump into her daughter, hopefully he'll change his mind about that. 

There is a guy in our ward that has been charged with 20 something counts of sexual exploitation of a minor.  If it doesn't matter how many files a person has, does anyone know how someone is charged with more than one count at a time?

[katherine the great]

2 hours ago, MorningStar said:

Our laws are messed up. There is no difference between a person who has a few files or thousands. They both count as one count of possession and that needs to change. He had over 2,000 files on his thumb drive and I have no idea how they handled his admission as to communicating with minors, so that's why I have requested the records. I haven't heard back yet. Level one offenders aren't published and he's considered low risk to reoffend. I don't understand why. I know years ago his entire ward knew and now with the boundary changes, many people don't know and since he was considered low level and it was "a long time ago" bishop doesn't want to treat him as if it just happened. If my friend will talk to him about his "accidental" bump into her daughter, hopefully he'll change his mind about that. 

This guy sounds like a ticking time bomb. The fact that his daughter in law volunteered to babysit children in her home (which is also HIS home--clearly a pedophile) is a huge red flag. I would contact law enforcement or social services since the Bishop doesn't seem to get it.

[Calm]

11 minutes ago, katherine the great said:

This guy sounds like a ticking time bomb. The fact that his daughter in law volunteered to babysit children in her home (which is also HIS home--clearly a pedophile) is a huge red flag. I would contact law enforcement or social services since the Bishop doesn't seem to get it.

And it is likely not just members she is offering to sit for.  The Bishop can't do anything about outside the Church besides what every other member can, report it to police.

[MorningStar]

3 hours ago, bluebell said:

There is a guy in our ward that has been charged with 20 something counts of sexual exploitation of a minor.  If it doesn't matter how many files a person has, does anyone know how someone is charged with more than one count at a time?

It could be that guy actually filmed or took pictures of minors. I got a little information today and learned where to request court papers. One thing they pulled up for me said he had 2 counts of possession, not 1. It also says his treatment was completed in 2012. 

[MorningStar]

1 hour ago, katherine the great said:

This guy sounds like a ticking time bomb. The fact that his daughter in law volunteered to babysit children in her home (which is also HIS home--clearly a pedophile) is a huge red flag. I would contact law enforcement or social services since the Bishop doesn't seem to get it.

Thank you. I will suggest that to my friend who had the services offered. 

[Calm]

52 minutes ago, MorningStar said:

Thank you. I will suggest that to my friend who had the services offered. 

You may be able to report it yourself, though CPS or police would check with your friend in all probability.

[bluebell]

3 hours ago, MorningStar said:

It could be that guy actually filmed or took pictures of minors. I got a little information today and learned where to request court papers. One thing they pulled up for me said he had 2 counts of possession, not 1. It also says his treatment was completed in 2012. 

That could be true. He only got probation though. 

[nuclearfuels]

On 7/8/2018 at 7:08 PM, MorningStar said:

We have a man in my ward who was exed for child images, but he still does musical numbers. I thought that wasn't allowed, but maybe I'm wrong? If they can't be called on to give prayers, why should they be allowed to do musical numbers? I've been asked repeatedly to accompany him and I don't want to be alone with him. He had thousands of images including 2-year-olds being abused. I have daughters who are 3 and 9 years old and don't want any connections with him period. He also tried to meet up with minors online. In our state, it only counted as one count and I don't know what time he served, if any. I already had to tell the bishop to ask him not to touch women in the ward and to assume we all know what he did. He has gone out of his way to touch me. 😠  I don't want to embarrass him. I just don't want any sort of interaction. He sent a request to connect with me on messenger and I declined, so the music chair called me and asked me to play for him. 

Months before our ward boundaries changes, I was called as stake music chair. He emailed me immediately, told me all of his credentials, and asked if he could conduct a big event we were having. We already had a director and she said, "He's a nice man, but that's not going to work out." She didn't even bother to tell me about his history. I met him at rehearsal and I was creeped out. I saw him handing out samples at a store and I was more creeped out. I saw him again handing out samples and couldn't bring myself to walk down his aisle after our last exchange. I finally had a prompting to google him when I got home and it was horrifying. A few months later our boundaries changed and he was in our ward, so it's good that I got a heads up that way because apparently no one else was going to warn me. 

He thinks we should be buddies because we're both musicians. Nope! 

Though I don't know the whole situation, I'd suggest:

1. Ask for a male assistant to the stake music chair be called. Delegate all interactions w/ ex'd brother to your assistant.

2. If you're told you can't have an assistant, ask to be released or volunteer to become the assistant to a new sstake music chair who will then handle all interactions w/ ex'd brother.

Toxic is toxic.

I find it helpful in these types of situations to trust my instincts and protect my children.

Since callings arent linear and you dont get a pass/fail grade, and you can't advance/regress, kids come first.

And honestly, as a stake choir member who is NOT musically talented, the Spirit carries the...spirit of the music to the congregation, regardless of the talent level of the choir, director, chair, etc.

[MorningStar]

7 hours ago, nuclearfuels said:

Though I don't know the whole situation, I'd suggest:

1. Ask for a male assistant to the stake music chair be called. Delegate all interactions w/ ex'd brother to your assistant.

2. If you're told you can't have an assistant, ask to be released or volunteer to become the assistant to a new sstake music chair who will then handle all interactions w/ ex'd brother.

Toxic is toxic.

I find it helpful in these types of situations to trust my instincts and protect my children.

Since callings arent linear and you dont get a pass/fail grade, and you can't advance/regress, kids come first.

And honestly, as a stake choir member who is NOT musically talented, the Spirit carries the...spirit of the music to the congregation, regardless of the talent level of the choir, director, chair, etc.

Thank you. I've only had to deal with him a couple times on a stake level. After our boundaries changed and I ended up in his ward, then he started asking for me to play the piano for him. I didn't return his calls or accept his request to connect on messenger, so the ward music chair called me and asked. I ended up telling her that I knew his history and I wasn't comfortable playing for him ever. Later told my bishop I don't think anyone with small children should be asked unless they want to tell that person what his history is, then they can decide for themselves if they feel comfortable. Most of my interactions have just been while trying to get from point A to point B, after Gospel Doctrine, at ward parties, etc.. Time will tell if he obeys the bishop and stays away from me. 

[Stargazer]

On 9/19/2018 at 8:03 PM, MorningStar said:

Just sent a public records request to the county. 

Are you aware that you can find the contact information for the DOC community field offices for your county?

Here's the link to the DOC page that lists them. 

http://doc.wa.gov/corrections/community/field-offices.htm

Just set the drop-down to your county (King as I remember), and you should find your nearest one in the list.  Give them a call and see if you can't have a conversation with someone who might be able to put you into touch with this jerk's supervision officer.

[Calm]

Stargazer, personal info even vague should be removed.