Bill “Papa” Lee Posted March 1, 2018 Posted March 1, 2018 A few weeks ago, I taught the assigned General Conference talk I was assigned. This is what has taken the place of the "Teachings of the Presidents". I do not know however if each Ward makes these assignments, or if the Church does so to maintain continuity for one Ward to the next. As this has been the stated goal for as long as I can remember, so that members who travel for work or vacations can be taught the same thing each week. In fact last week my Bishop returned from two weeks in Germany for a business trip and made this comparison. In this lesson I speak of (that I taught) it talked about "transitory events in our lives", and how in such "events" we can take comfort in the fact that the Gospel remains and "anchor" to keep us grounded in the Gospel or Faith. I also spoke of the reason we meet in our Ward, being not only as a "geographical issue based on where we live", but also a "geographical (or geography) of doctrine". In addition, I spoke of how we dress, how we look, how we speak, which can keep us from bringing our own personality to the table. As such these issues also define us at times. But for these three issues are not requirements, nor necessary for our membership (for lack of a better word), nor our Spirtual growth. Many have slowly made changes in this area as of late, as it relates to wearing different colored shirts, growing beards (which is the fashion of the day as of late), and even speaking with more flare, again for lack of a better term. We have one sister who is Black, and grew up as a Baptist (as I did) and each time she speaks, via assignment or testimony, it is like a wonderful breeze is blowing through the Chapel. I speak and teach in such ways (certainly not as wonderful as she does and other converts) and always get very positive feedback. So I asked of the class I am speaking of, what would happen if a GA wore a blue shirt in General Conference? A number oh High Priests, suggested that by the next Sunday, there may not be a single "Blue Shirt" left in a clothing store in most Western States. My battery is about to die, so I don't want to loose all that I have typed, so I may revisit and add more questions. Until then, I hope that this is enough to begin the discussion. So, your thoughts please.
cinepro Posted March 1, 2018 Posted March 1, 2018 51 minutes ago, Bill "Papa" Lee said: So I asked of the class I am speaking of, what would happen if a GA wore a blue shirt in General Conference? A number oh High Priests, suggested that by the next Sunday, there may not be a single "Blue Shirt" left in a clothing store in most Western States. My battery is about to die, so I don't want to loose all that I have typed, so I may revisit and add more questions. Hopefully we wouldn't subsequently learn that some members of said GA's family had registered the domain "LDSBlueShirt.com" and started selling blue shirts online... 4
Guest Posted March 1, 2018 Posted March 1, 2018 17 minutes ago, cinepro said: Hopefully we wouldn't subsequently learn that some members of said GA's family had registered the domain "LDSBlueShirt.com" and started selling blue shirts online... Indeed. You know growing up in the Baptist Church, almost every man wore white shirts, sometimes colored shirts, with ties. Now every time I drive past a large or small Baptist Church, as there are five (along my route) just in the five miles to my Ward, and it looks like everyone but the Pastor are on their way to a swap meet, or flee market. Shots, T-shits, and flip flops or sandals. I once tried to get out the back door in jeans, when my grandmother caught me. She in her wonderful way of teaching, asked where I was going? Of course she knew and followed up with three questions. "Are you going to Theron's house"? I replied; no. "Are you going to Mark's house"? I replied; no. "Are you going to the Lord's house"? I replied; yes. She said, "then dress like it, and have the strength of Spirit to not go the way of the crowd, and the broad and easy downhill to destruction". I never forgot that lesson, and always worry that she is always watching from above. I know God loves me, and I know she loves me, and I want to avoid even the "very appearance of evil", as the Apostle Paul taught. Of course, I don't think it is evil, or I would go to hell, but I am her grandson, and must act accordingly, as she asked me to promise to always dress as if I were coming into the presence of the Lord. I couldn't bare to disappoint her, nor my Minister Father and my Mother who always set the same example. The only issue I have with white shirts, is those who ware them until they are just grey from age and ware. Being former military, I lays dress in dry cleaned suits, pants and shirts, as my training of 8 years in the Army taught me, and my 23 years as a police officer and uniforms demanded. 1
hope_for_things Posted March 1, 2018 Posted March 1, 2018 2 hours ago, Bill "Papa" Lee said: A few weeks ago, I taught the assigned General Conference talk I was assigned. This is what has taken the place of the "Teachings of the Presidents". I do not know however if each Ward makes these assignments, or if the Church does so to maintain continuity for one Ward to the next. As this has been the stated goal for as long as I can remember, so that members who travel for work or vacations can be taught the same thing each week. In fact last week my Bishop returned from two weeks in Germany for a business trip and made this comparison. In this lesson I speak of (that I taught) it talked about "transitory events in our lives", and how in such "events" we can take comfort in the fact that the Gospel remains and "anchor" to keep us grounded in the Gospel or Faith. I also spoke of the reason we meet in our Ward, being not only as a "geographical issue based on where we live", but also a "geographical (or geography) of doctrine". In addition, I spoke of how we dress, how we look, how we speak, which can keep us from bringing our own personality to the table. As such these issues also define us at times. But for these three issues are not requirements, nor necessary for our membership (for lack of a better word), nor our Spirtual growth. Many have slowly made changes in this area as of late, as it relates to wearing different colored shirts, growing beards (which is the fashion of the day as of late), and even speaking with more flare, again for lack of a better term. We have one sister who is Black, and grew up as a Baptist (as I did) and each time she speaks, via assignment or testimony, it is like a wonderful breeze is blowing through the Chapel. I speak and teach in such ways (certainly not as wonderful as she does and other converts) and always get very positive feedback. So I asked of the class I am speaking of, what would happen if a GA wore a blue shirt in General Conference? A number oh High Priests, suggested that by the next Sunday, there may not be a single "Blue Shirt" left in a clothing store in most Western States. My battery is about to die, so I don't want to loose all that I have typed, so I may revisit and add more questions. Until then, I hope that this is enough to begin the discussion. So, your thoughts please. The problem you highlight here is a critique on how the culture of Mormonism of late has produced an idolatry of conformance. Members have been trained to be really good at following the leaders and conforming to the standards. This produces cohesion and excludes those that don't get in line. It creates a really nice echo chamber. 2
Tacenda Posted March 1, 2018 Posted March 1, 2018 There was a man in my old ward that wore a black shirt and wore earrings. I was always impressed by the ward members being very kind to him and no judgement, from what I saw. But can't imagine if I saw the bishopric up in the stand wearing anything but white. My husband doesn't wear his white shirts anymore, but it would be odd to see the bishopric not wearing white, probably because of my conditioning in the church.
Guest Posted March 2, 2018 Posted March 2, 2018 1 hour ago, hope_for_things said: The problem you highlight here is a critique on how the culture of Mormonism of late has produced an idolatry of conformance. Members have been trained to be really good at following the leaders and conforming to the standards. This produces cohesion and excludes those that don't get in line. It creates a really nice echo chamber. I speak of The Church, because I am a member. It is no different in any other Faith, not one. I make mention of it, because it is a natural outcropping of ours and every other Faith, that and because this is a Mormon discussion board, not given over to those that exist only to tare down all other Faith's, and because it is not in my nature to do so.
CA Steve Posted March 2, 2018 Posted March 2, 2018 Well to be frank (instead of Steve) if there is a hell, I imagine it as a place where one has to wear a white shirt and tie for eternity. Seriously I am convinced that Satan invented the tie and white shirt. And he is laughing at us while he wears Birkenstock, tee shirts and cargo pants.
Hamba Tuhan Posted March 2, 2018 Posted March 2, 2018 1 hour ago, Tacenda said: But can't imagine if I saw the bishopric up in the stand wearing anything but white. The first counsellor in our current bishopric never wears a white shirt. He also has a beard most of the time. (And I had facial hair the whole time I served as a counsellor in two previous bishoprics.) When I was studying in America, the last bishop of my singles ward wore a blue denim shirt to church each week. And the last time I visited SLC (more than a decade ago), I attended a random ward for church, and two of the three bishopric members were bearded, as was the visiting member of the high council. 2
The Nehor Posted March 2, 2018 Posted March 2, 2018 5 hours ago, cinepro said: Hopefully we wouldn't subsequently learn that some members of said GA's family had registered the domain "LDSBlueShirt.com" and started selling blue shirts online... Thanks for the best laugh of the day.
The Nehor Posted March 2, 2018 Posted March 2, 2018 2 hours ago, CA Steve said: Well to be frank (instead of Steve) if there is a hell, I imagine it as a place where one has to wear a white shirt and tie for eternity. Seriously I am convinced that Satan invented the tie and white shirt. And he is laughing at us while he wears Birkenstock, tee shirts and cargo pants. The original cravats came from French dandies copying Croatian mercenary uniforms. Stupid pointless neckties are one more thing we can blame on the French. Makes the guillotines of the Revolution seem a more fitting punishment for their crimes right? 2
mrmarklin Posted March 2, 2018 Posted March 2, 2018 (edited) 7 hours ago, cinepro said: Hope Edited March 2, 2018 by mrmarklin Duplicate
mrmarklin Posted March 2, 2018 Posted March 2, 2018 Just now, mrmarklin said: In black and white TV days, the GAs did wear light blue shirts in conference. White was too bright for the technology of the day.
snowflake Posted March 2, 2018 Posted March 2, 2018 17 hours ago, Bill "Papa" Lee said: Many have slowly made changes in this area as of late, as it relates to wearing different colored shirts, growing beards (which is the fashion of the day as of late), and even speaking with more flare, again for lack of a better term. We have one sister who is Black, and grew up as a Baptist (as I did) and each time she speaks, via assignment or testimony, it is like a wonderful breeze is blowing through the Chapel. I speak and teach in such ways (certainly not as wonderful as she does and other converts) and always get very positive feedback. I was raised LDS, had never been to other churches. The first time my wife took me to a local church here in the south I was blown away! Talk about culture shock. The preachers taught with passion, they actually opened the Bible, and taught from the Bible, and there was some hand waving and dancing during worship. Wow!!!! Amens and clapping in the "chapel"......total shock to me! So I know what you mean Papa when you say a breath of fresh air.
Jeanne Posted March 2, 2018 Posted March 2, 2018 Does anyone really think that the color of a shirt matters to God and His Son Seriously?
CA Steve Posted March 2, 2018 Posted March 2, 2018 14 hours ago, The Nehor said: The original cravats came from French dandies copying Croatian mercenary uniforms. Stupid pointless neckties are one more thing we can blame on the French. Makes the guillotines of the Revolution seem a more fitting punishment for their crimes right? So do you think there is any connection between the fact that both guillotines and pews are made out of wood?
Guest Posted March 2, 2018 Posted March 2, 2018 1 hour ago, snowflake said: I was raised LDS, had never been to other churches. The first time my wife took me to a local church here in the south I was blown away! Talk about culture shock. The preachers taught with passion, they actually opened the Bible, and taught from the Bible, and there was some hand waving and dancing during worship. Wow!!!! Amens and clapping in the "chapel"......total shock to me! So I know what you mean Papa when you say a breath of fresh air. It is not necessarily "passion" as it is more a learned behavior, but different, and different when unexpected can be indeed a "breath of fresh air", but when it is "different for the sake of being different", not so much. Just imagine if every speaker spoke with both passion and tenderness like Elder Holland does, what a Sunday, every Sunday would be! Every time he speaks in General Conference, or anywhere else, like he did just as I listened a few rows back when he came to our Stake to speak. I am the son of a wonderful Baptist Minister, God Rest his soul", and it was in the same pulpit that I began my own calling to the ministry, or so I thought. Then I found the Book of Mormon, and the direction of my life changed. But, both in my early days in Germany and the Church, when I joined the Church, and upon my return to my beloved Georgia, people have always used the Bible, opened the Bible (before Microsoft Word and Office Word) until they started printing them out, their talks which contained such verses, but in the fullness of the Gospel, also the words of the Book of Mormon, D&C, and other Scripture. Case in point, I have watched so many try and stumble to explain the meaning (growing up) trying to explain, "...except a man be born of the water and of the water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the Kingdom of God" (John 3: 5-6) which many claim this means being born and born again (which it does) but as so many Scriptures, they have dual meanings, those found in the Standard Works, or "types and shadows" (if you will). Also almost all "Scripture, many Scriptures, explain why people could not (cannot) receive the Holy Ghost, or Holy Spirit, unless baptized by those in authority, and also, including in the name of the Father, the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, although many only mention Jesus Christ, or the Lord to put emphasis of Jesus Christ alone to teach reliance to the Jews in Oaul's day, thus declaring in whom they (we) are saved, they cannot receive the "Gift of the Holy Ghost". as well. When it is spelled out so perfectly in the Pearl of Great Price in Moses 6: 58-60. Please read and it's wonderful teaching, and other Scriptues listed and the command to "teach these things "freely to our children", as so many of other Evangelical Faiths have all but abandoned the necessity of baptism spelled out in Acts 2;0: 38, Acts 18: 25, 19: 2-6, for salvation and the gift of the Holy Ghost. So almost to the exclusion of such teachings, they omit by accident or not knowing such things as the quote quote, "open their Bibles" as you penned. I have a broken back, and getting up and down is difficult, so please forgive misspellings, quotes, or Scriptuesincorrectly mentioned, but I know the Bible well, due to my upbringing, and due to my passion for all Scripture, as they the are air to my lungs, as they give me both inspiration, animation and life. But passion, hand rising, certainly not dancing, and just the opening opening our Bibles is not enough to bring about our salvation. But only the fullness of the Gospel, which teachings include Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, and "every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God", as Jesus Christ declared can bring about salvation, and the teaching of Prophets and Apostles, both of ancient days, and today, concerning the needs of salvation, spelled out in The Articles of Faith, verses 3-4, which is only the beginning of wisdom. Snowflake, it is not only "fresh air" that is needed for our survival, but air or oxygen of any source that gives us life, but oxygen levels of good oxygen of every kind, passion of almost every form, and Scriprue if all Books, that teach us of all the of requirements for fuller life, in this life and the live to come. Also understand, this post is not meant to belittle your comments, or to suggest they have no merit, but in recognition that others also read both your's and mine comments. I thank you for your comments, as they have no less value than any other. I also pray that this is meant to dismiss, and I hope you will still continue to contribute. So again please forgive any misspellings, or incorrect Scriptural listings, as all I use is an IPad resting on my legs (with my knees raise) due to my injuries, holding it up with the thumb of my left hand, which only allows me to use one finger from each hand to type. So if their are errors, it is never my desire to mislead, because doing such is not in my nature. God bless you my brother, and God bless those who read all posts, in this thread and all others. 3
The Nehor Posted March 2, 2018 Posted March 2, 2018 6 hours ago, Jeanne said: Does anyone really think that the color of a shirt matters to God and His Son Seriously? Inasmuch as it could have an effect on his other children.......yep. I wear a white shirt to church. It does not matter to me. I do not spend a lot of time looking at myself. Many people I know in the church find other colored shirts “off” and a distraction so I wear one anyways to avoid being distracting. Basically following Paul’s advice about eating meat sacrificed to idols. It does not actually matter if you do but if someone does care you should defer to their sensibilities to avoid distracting or hurting them. When I want to be distracting I wear my chainmail tie. 2
bluebell Posted March 3, 2018 Posted March 3, 2018 7 hours ago, Jeanne said: Does anyone really think that the color of a shirt matters to God and His Son Seriously? I think it matters to Him why we make the clothing choices that we do, and so, as far as our clothing color choices might come from negative motivations, He cares about that. Otherwise, no, I don't think He sees wearing white shirts as a more righteous choices than not wearing one. 2
Tacenda Posted March 3, 2018 Posted March 3, 2018 1 hour ago, bluebell said: I think it matters to Him why we make the clothing choices that we do, and so, as far as our clothing color choices might come from negative motivations, He cares about that. Otherwise, no, I don't think He sees wearing white shirts as a more righteous choices than not wearing one. I listen to several NDE's and was amazed to hear/read that people on the other side are dressed in white in some of them. I kind of hoped we could be dressed in normal apparel instead of white robes etc.
Jeanne Posted March 3, 2018 Posted March 3, 2018 14 hours ago, bluebell said: I think it matters to Him why we make the clothing choices that we do, and so, as far as our clothing color choices might come from negative motivations, He cares about that. Otherwise, no, I don't think He sees wearing white shirts as a more righteous choices than not wearing one. Thank you!
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