Bishops interview with minors

rongo · December 13, 2017

9 minutes ago, ALarson said:

I cannot imagine any youth bringing up the topics you're referring to (masturbation, porn, oral sex, levi loving....) unless you bring them up first. I'm pretty uncomfortable with any adult doing that when they are alone with a youth behind closed doors.

I've had several youth bring it up. Every single youth who has confessed to it has brought it up themselves --- i.e., it wasn't during the interview itself (some came back and said that they should have said something in the interview, so it was the interview that led to confessing --- just not then). One wanted to know *why* it is a sin.

jkwilliams · December 13, 2017

2 minutes ago, rongo said:

I've had several youth bring it up. Every single youth who has confessed to it has brought it up themselves --- i.e., it wasn't during the interview itself (some came back and said that they should have said something in the interview, so it was the interview that led to confessing --- just not then). One wanted to know *why* it is a sin.

Again, I'm glad most of my grandchildren will not ever be in a situation where they think it's appropriate for a minor to discuss their sex life with an adult behind closed doors. I'm relieved to hear that some church leaders do not engage in such conversations.

rongo · December 13, 2017

6 minutes ago, ksfisher said:

I've had a 17 year old tell me he didn't know what the word chastity meant.

Many youth don't know very much --- or at least, they can't articulate it.

The number of girls whose parents bring them in because they found sexting on their phones is just one indication. These are girls who should know better --- how can an active youth not know that taking naked pictures of yourself and sending them to others is wrong? --- but it happens more than it should.

Many kids honestly have no idea what is meant by "law of chastity." Many also are clueless about tithing, even though that has been taught over and over throughout their lives. Some really think that "weed is okay, because it's natural!"

rongo · December 13, 2017

1 minute ago, jkwilliams said:

Again, I'm glad most of my grandchildren will not ever be in a situation where they think it's appropriate for a minor to discuss their sex life with an adult behind closed doors. I'm relieved to hear that some church leaders do not engage in such conversations.

So, when a youth brings it up and asks, should leaders hold out a palm and say, "Stop! Don't say another word. You should ask your parents about this?" Or, should they answer the question?

jkwilliams · December 13, 2017

Just now, rongo said:

Many youth don't know very much --- or at least, they can't articulate it.

The number of girls whose parents bring them in because they found sexting on their phones is just one indication. These are girls who should know better --- how can an active youth not know that taking naked pictures of yourself and sending them to others is wrong? --- but it happens more than it should.

Many kids honestly have no idea what is meant by "law of chastity." Many also are clueless about tithing, even though that has been taught over and over throughout their lives. Some really think that "weed is okay, because it's natural!"

If I were in a bishopric (heaven forbid!) and a child asked me about such things, my response would be, "Have you talked to your parents about this?" and encourage him or her to do so in a safe, family situation. I would not be volunteering information about sex practices.

jkwilliams · December 13, 2017

Just now, rongo said:

So, when a youth brings it up and asks, should leaders hold out a palm and say, "Stop! Don't say another word. You should ask your parents about this?" Or, should they answer the question?

I'll repeat my previous answer: If I were in a bishopric (heaven forbid!) and a child asked me about such things, my response would be, "Have you talked to your parents about this?" and encourage him or her to do so in a safe, family situation. I would not be volunteering information about sex practices.

ALarson · December 13, 2017

6 minutes ago, rongo said:

I've had several youth bring it up. Every single youth who has confessed to it has brought it up themselves --- i.e., it wasn't during the interview itself (some came back and said that they should have said something in the interview, so it was the interview that led to confessing --- just not then). One wanted to know *why* it is a sin.

So, a parent in the interview would have been fine....just not the follow up? Do you agree with that at least?

I have no problem with a youth or adult coming in to specifically talk about a topic or ask questions if they initiate it. I just do not believe it should be instigated in a general interview that a youth is called in to be a part of.....

But even if they do want to talk or ask questions, I'd let them take the lead and not ask probing questions or elaborate with details or specifics. IMO, that should not happen behind closed doors while alone with a youth. That's for the protection of the adult as well.

ALarson · December 13, 2017

6 minutes ago, rongo said:

Many kids honestly have no idea what is meant by "law of chastity."

That has not been my experience with the youth in our ward. Are your youth leaders not teaching the lessons provided on this?

I am not in favor of anyone putting them on the spot and asking them to explain it. I think a simple question "Do you live the law of chastity?" is sufficient and then accepting their yes or no response. Anything further is probing, IMO. If they ask questions, then answer them as generally as possible without getting into sexually explicit details.

Edited December 13, 2017 by ALarson

CA Steve · December 13, 2017

2 minutes ago, rongo said:

So, when a youth brings it up and asks, should leaders hold out a palm and say, "Stop! Don't say another word. You should ask your parents about this?" Or, should they answer the question?

Unequivocally yes to the first question, in my opinion.

rongo · December 13, 2017

Just now, jkwilliams said:

I'll repeat my previous answer: If I were in a bishopric (heaven forbid!) and a child asked me about such things, my response would be, "Have you talked to your parents about this?" and encourage him or her to do so in a safe, family situation. I would not be volunteering information about sex practices.

I get that some don't think leaders should discuss these things at all. Clearly, the Church does want leaders to exhort and explain, where needed, within the purview of their calling. So, these people are in a minority within the attending Church population (granted that this minority wants this to change).

I have, actually, also told youth to discuss certain things with their parents. But, generally, I'll answer frank questions.

ksfisher · December 13, 2017

14 minutes ago, ALarson said:

There are lessons on the Law of Chastity given each year. Was he inactive?

No, but he had been attending a Spanish speaking branch for several years. He is fluent in both languages, but the word threw him off.

ALarson · December 13, 2017

5 minutes ago, jkwilliams said:

I'll repeat my previous answer: If I were in a bishopric (heaven forbid!) and a child asked me about such things, my response would be, "Have you talked to your parents about this?" and encourage him or her to do so in a safe, family situation. I would not be volunteering information about sex practices.

This. 100% this.

(And that's for the protection of the adult who is alone with the youth too.)

jkwilliams · December 13, 2017

Just now, rongo said:

I get that some don't think leaders should discuss these things at all. Clearly, the Church does want leaders to exhort and explain, where needed, within the purview of their calling. So, these people are in a minority within the attending Church population (granted that this minority wants this to change).

I have, actually, also told youth to discuss certain things with their parents. But, generally, I'll answer frank questions.

I have not seen instruction from the church that says leaders should explain such things in interviews, prompted or not. I guess I can't imagine my kids being more open to discussing such things with a relative stranger than they would be talking to me. I've never had any issues with my kids being afraid to ask such difficult questions of me.

jkwilliams · December 13, 2017

1 minute ago, ksfisher said:

No, but he had been attending a Spanish speaking branch for several years. He is fluent in both languages, but the word threw him off.

Huh? The word in Spanish is "castidad," as in "la ley de castidad." It's difficult to imagine that word throwing him off.

rongo · December 13, 2017

2 minutes ago, ALarson said:

So, a parent in the interview would have been fine....just not the follow up? Do you agree with that at least?

In retrospect and hindsight. But you have no way of knowing that in real time, right?

I have also had parents bring kids back after "passing" their TR recommend interviews, because they should have confessed things the parents knew about. So, a parent in the initial one would have brought that to light. I still don't think it's a good worthiness interview dynamic to have a UN observer there to make sure everything gets confessed, either.

But even if they do want to talk or ask questions, I'd let them take the lead and not ask probing questions or elaborate with details or specifics.

That's exactly what I do. Again, I don't probe. I follow their lead. But, they need to know enough to be able to actually answer, and I need to know what they do or don't know. Hence, asking them to explain their understanding of the different standards (tithing and WoW, too). Elaboration is when there are gaps or deficiencies in understanding.

rongo · December 13, 2017

7 minutes ago, ALarson said:

That has not been my experience with the youth in our ward. Are your youth leaders not teaching the lessons provided on this?

In my experience, there is not a 1:1 correlation between lessons taught, and understanding. It helps, obviously, but it isn't a guarantee. Much more effective than lessons in SS and YM/YW is instruction in the family.

rongo · December 13, 2017

4 minutes ago, jkwilliams said:

Huh? The word in Spanish is "castidad," as in "la ley de castidad." It's difficult to imagine that word throwing him off.

You would think "law of chastity," "word of wisdom," and "tithing" wouldn't throw English speakers off, either, but you would be surprised if you asked youth to explain them. Some adults, too . . .

Danzo · December 13, 2017

21 minutes ago, hope_for_things said:

The bishop is in the position of authority, and D&C 121 talks about misuse of authority. Regular members have no authority to set terms. It seems to me that the charge of coercion is more appropriate in the context of a bishop that would refuse to accommodate and rather than against a regular member who is just responding to the actions of the authority.

Still seems a bit lame to me. You are free to come and go as you wish. Last I checked, the doors of the chapel are not locked on the inside. Keep coming as long as you feel the church has something to offer you.

Its always sad when I see people leave, but I would be much sadder if I thought you were staying because you felt compelled to be here.

I don't see a lot of coercion going on.

You quote D&C 121 as if it has authority, yet you don't seem to accept any other parts of the D&C.

If you think the bishop has some authority, then respect it, if you don't think he has any authority, don't.

I don't see much point in saying that the bishop only has authority if he does what I want. If I wanted a church run the way I wanted to run it the easiest thing to do would be to go start my own church. I could run it and I would always agree with everything it does.

jkwilliams · December 13, 2017

8 minutes ago, rongo said:

In retrospect and hindsight. But you have no way of knowing that in real time, right?

I have also had parents bring kids back after "passing" their TR recommend interviews, because they should have confessed things the parents knew about. So, a parent in the initial one would have brought that to light. I still don't think it's a good worthiness interview dynamic to have a UN observer there to make sure everything gets confessed, either.

That's exactly what I do. Again, I don't probe. I follow their lead. But, they need to know enough to be able to actually answer, and I need to know what they do or don't know. Hence, asking them to explain their understanding of the different standards (tithing and WoW, too). Elaboration is when there are gaps or deficiencies in understanding.

No offense, but if my kids had been in your ward and I knew how you conducted interviews, I would request that someone else do the interview. If it had to be you, I would again remind my kids that if you asked them any questions or brought up any subjects that were inappropriate or made them uncomfortable, they should refer you to me and leave immediately.

strappinglad · December 13, 2017

Where I live we are fortunate to have several MDs who have been/are church leaders and they have been asked by both the local schools and the ward YM/YW groups to hold lectures/discussion groups on sexual questions. Believe me, every kind of question comes up in such forums and they are answered fully and professionally. I'm hoping it opens communication between parents and kids later on.

Storm Rider · December 13, 2017

2 hours ago, Tacenda said:

Blah! You're going to give up your parental authority to a church leader? I thought we, men and women, have PH authority given to us already in the temple. What good is it then? My oh my.

Tacenda, boy this logic just goes off the deep end and resists any attempt to breathe some oxygen.

First, no one has talked, mentioned, discussed that parents forfeit their parental authority by allowing their child to be interviewed by a bishop. It is a straw man argument that a couple of you are bringing up and it has nothing to do with the topic.

Let's talk about an example that I hope to God is easy to understand - a young person wants to go to the temple for baptisms. Does he just talk to his parent and then the parent calls up the bishop and informs him that, "Yup, me and the little lady have talked to our daughter and she is worthy to go to the temple. If you can be so kind just send over the provisional temple recommend so that she can go." Does anyone think that would work? Of course not!!! It is forfeiting parental rights to understand that a parent has no control over the Kingdom of God when it comes to worthiness interviews? Of course not!!!

For the life of me I don't know why anyone is getting their underwear twisted in knots about something that has never been a problem before. Does an LDS father with a temple recommend have the priesthood? Yup. Does he have authority to give worthiness interviews - not unless he is a member of the bishopric. At no time in the history of the Church has this been the case - the authority has always resided with the those who have been called to serve in a such a capacity.

This place is just getting weirder and weirder.

ksfisher · December 13, 2017

33 minutes ago, jkwilliams said:

Huh? The word in Spanish is "castidad," as in "la ley de castidad." It's difficult to imagine that word throwing him off.

No idea then. His father had been serving previously as the Spanish speaking branch president.

Interesting.

ttribe · December 13, 2017

33 minutes ago, Storm Rider said:

Tacenda, boy this logic just goes off the deep end and resists any attempt to breathe some oxygen.

First, no one has talked, mentioned, discussed that parents forfeit their parental authority by allowing their child to be interviewed by a bishop. It is a straw man argument that a couple of you are bringing up and it has nothing to do with the topic.

Let's talk about an example that I hope to God is easy to understand - a young person wants to go to the temple for baptisms. Does he just talk to his parent and then the parent calls up the bishop and informs him that, "Yup, me and the little lady have talked to our daughter and she is worthy to go to the temple. If you can be so kind just send over the provisional temple recommend so that she can go." Does anyone think that would work? Of course not!!! It is forfeiting parental rights to understand that a parent has no control over the Kingdom of God when it comes to worthiness interviews? Of course not!!!

For the life of me I don't know why anyone is getting their underwear twisted in knots about something that has never been a problem before. Does an LDS father with a temple recommend have the priesthood? Yup. Does he have authority to give worthiness interviews - not unless he is a member of the bishopric. At no time in the history of the Church has this been the case - the authority has always resided with the those who have been called to serve in a such a capacity.

This place is just getting weirder and weirder.

Seriously? There are now a number of documented cases of abuse in which rogue leaders have used the interviews to groom young victims for sexual abuse. "...never been a problem before"? That's either painfully naive or intentionally ignoring the facts.

Amulek · December 13, 2017

56 minutes ago, rongo said:

So, when a youth brings it up and asks, should leaders hold out a palm and say, "Stop! Don't say another word. You should ask your parents about this?" Or, should they answer the question?

Nope. Propriety dictates that you remain silent.

If kids don't want to talk to their parents about sensitive subjects then they can always just get information from their peers, the internet, or that one day of sex-ed that takes place in health class.

/sarcasm off

rongo · December 13, 2017

4 minutes ago, ttribe said:

Seriously? There are now a number of documented cases of abuse in which rogue leaders have used the interviews to groom young victims for sexual abuse. "...never been a problem before"? That's either painfully naive or intentionally ignoring the facts.

How many are we talking about?

Serious question.

Can we put a number on how many bishopric abuse cases are known?

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