rongo Posted December 13, 2017 Posted December 13, 2017 1 minute ago, Danzo said: If you really think they are called, then you might respect the calling a bit more. I don't think he really does. They're just, like, some dudes, you know?
ALarson Posted December 13, 2017 Posted December 13, 2017 4 minutes ago, rongo said: I think it's supposed to be a given that adults know that porn/masturbation are included in the law of chastity. Many youth don't automatically think this, and (per my dad) many 20somethings think that oral/****, "Levi lovin'," etc. are okay (at least, they claim ignorance). So you go into detail regarding those and ask questions pertaining to them (bolded words) when you interview youth?
Danzo Posted December 13, 2017 Posted December 13, 2017 20 hours ago, hope_for_things said: This kind of stubborn position would drive people like me away from attendance. I made it clear with my last bishop that interviews with my kids would all include myself or my wife, and that it was non-negotiable. If you were my leader you would lose my activity over this one stubborn position, which is really sad. Using a threat of "Inactivity" to coerce other people sounds a bit lame to me.
jkwilliams Posted December 13, 2017 Posted December 13, 2017 Just now, rongo said: I think it's supposed to be a given that adults know that porn/masturbation are included in the law of chastity. Many youth don't automatically think this, and (per my dad) many 20somethings think that oral/****, "Levi lovin'," etc. are okay (at least, they claim ignorance). It certainly doesn't hurt to set this straight in their teenage years. I have known youth (mostly young women) who are active and committed who are dismayed to find out that sexting is a serious sin (they are asked for inappropriate images of themselves, and they send them). You would think that this is an automatic and a given, but you would be wrong. This is mostly a failing on the part of parents, but we have a lot of youth who think they are "fine," who are engaging in inappropriate behavior and practices. No offense intended, but I'm glad my kids will not have to deal with this stuff. It's strange to think that I used to find this kind of discussion completely "normal." 2
rongo Posted December 13, 2017 Posted December 13, 2017 2 minutes ago, ALarson said: So you go into detail regarding those and ask questions pertaining to them (bolded words) when you interview youth? a) it depends on each case b) the level of detail is pretty much left to the section in FtSoY, unless there are questions about that. I simply make sure that they understand that porn/masturbation are sins and should be repented of. If they don't seem to understand even the wording in FtSoY, then it may require supplemental explanation, but "do not arouse these feelings in others" and "do not arouse these feelings in yourself [by purposely touching yourself]" is pretty understandable for most people.
ALarson Posted December 13, 2017 Posted December 13, 2017 1 minute ago, rongo said: a) it depends on each case b) the level of detail is pretty much left to the section in FtSoY, unless there are questions about that. I simply make sure that they understand that porn/masturbation are sins and should be repented of. If they don't seem to understand even the wording in FtSoY, then it may require supplemental explanation, but "do not arouse these feelings in others" and "do not arouse these feelings in yourself [by purposely touching yourself]" is pretty understandable for most people. Do you bring up the specific topics of masturbation and porn? I gotta tell you....I absolutely would not want you interviewing one of my kids just based on what I've read in your posts here. 1
Danzo Posted December 13, 2017 Posted December 13, 2017 18 hours ago, Tacenda said: Seriously Nehor, why would you want them confessing to a stranger? Its very rare that a bishop is a stranger.
rongo Posted December 13, 2017 Posted December 13, 2017 2 minutes ago, jkwilliams said: No offense intended, but I'm glad my kids will not have to deal with this stuff. It's strange to think that I used to find this kind of discussion completely "normal." Well, your kids are now middle-aged adults, right? Do you think that these activities are really fine (ie., you wouldn't have a problem with grandchildren or great-grandchildren doing them), and that the Church shouldn't try to discourage them? Is this a change from how you viewed them before you lost your belief?
jkwilliams Posted December 13, 2017 Posted December 13, 2017 2 minutes ago, rongo said: a) it depends on each case b) the level of detail is pretty much left to the section in FtSoY, unless there are questions about that. I simply make sure that they understand that porn/masturbation are sins and should be repented of. If they don't seem to understand even the wording in FtSoY, then it may require supplemental explanation, but "do not arouse these feelings in others" and "do not arouse these feelings in yourself [by purposely touching yourself]" is pretty understandable for most people. Early drafts of the For the Strength of Youth included definitions of behaviors such as [the m-word], but when the proofs came back from the Q12, they had been excised with the initials of a certain apostle (you can guess who).
rongo Posted December 13, 2017 Posted December 13, 2017 (edited) 5 minutes ago, ALarson said: Do you bring up the specific topics of masturbation and porn? I gotta tell you....I absolutely would not want you interviewing one of my kids just based on what I've read in your posts here. You're a counselor, right? Do you just say "Do you keep the law of chastity" and move on to the next question? What do you say when they look confused or even say that they don't understand the question? How do you explain it? For that matter, how do/did you explain the law of chastity to your own children? There is a definite lack of much teaching on this score from a lot of parents, that's for sure. Edited December 13, 2017 by rongo
Rivers Posted December 13, 2017 Posted December 13, 2017 (edited) I remember being asked about masturbation as a youth by my Bishop a few times. And boy was it awkward. But now that I am an adult, I don’t get asked about that sort of thing anymore. I am only asked if I obey the Law of Chastity in TR interviews to which I simply answer yes or no. Why is it that the youth receive more interrogation about this sort thing than adults? Edited December 13, 2017 by Rivers 1
ALarson Posted December 13, 2017 Posted December 13, 2017 4 minutes ago, rongo said: You're a counselor, right? Do you just say "Do you keep the law of chastity" and move on to the next question? What do you say when they look confused or even say that they don't understand the question? How do you explain it? I definitely do not bring up the topic of masturbation or porn with any youth. I would also never go into any detail regarding oral sex or "levi loving". Rarely do I interview even a 12 year old who doesn't know the meaning well enough to know what the question means. Actually I can't really remember any of them having to ask. I wonder how much prying you do? 1
jkwilliams Posted December 13, 2017 Posted December 13, 2017 2 minutes ago, rongo said: Well, your kids are now middle-aged adults, right? Do you think that these activities are really fine (ie., you wouldn't have a problem with grandchildren or great-grandchildren doing them), and that the Church shouldn't try to discourage them? Is this a change from how you viewed them before you lost your belief? No, they aren't middle-aged adults and won't be for quite a long time (my youngest is a freshman in college). I'm not that old! Honestly, looking back on it, I think kids going through the kinds of interviews you describe (and what I experienced) would be much less likely to develop healthy attitudes toward sexuality than those who didn't go through that. If I had to choose between someone in my family growing up with the kind of unreasonable shame I did or engaging in some premarital sex, I'd probably choose the latter. I've kept a few therapists employed because of my difficulty in overcoming shame and guilt (and not over anything major like violating the law of chastity).
rongo Posted December 13, 2017 Posted December 13, 2017 10 minutes ago, ALarson said: I gotta tell you....I absolutely would not want you interviewing one of my kids just based on what I've read in your posts here. Do you personally believe that masturbation is not a sin? Do you think that your own children should attend the temple if they are doing this and haven't repented (with or without consulting the bishop. As I've said, for most people I don't think this needs to involve the bishop at all). It seems to me that most people who don't like bishops asking about this don't think it's actually a sin in the first place. Just wondering.
rongo Posted December 13, 2017 Posted December 13, 2017 1 minute ago, ALarson said: I definitely do not bring up the topic of masturbation or porn with any youth. I would also never go into any detail regarding oral sex or "levi loving". I have never gone into detail about these things, either. The FtSoY section is sufficient for that. Does that make you feel better? Rarely do I interview even a 12 year old who doesn't know the meaning well enough to know what the question means. Actually I can't really remember any of them having to ask. I wonder how much prying you do? I do hardly any prying at all. I think you would be surprised if you simply ask them "Would you please explain the Law of Chastity?"
Danzo Posted December 13, 2017 Posted December 13, 2017 1 hour ago, Tacenda said: Blah! You're going to give up your parental authority to a church leader? I thought we, men and women, have PH authority given to us already in the temple. What good is it then? My oh my. How long has it been since you have attended the temple? I would suggest you attend the temple more. I believe your question is answered there.
Bob Crockett Posted December 13, 2017 Posted December 13, 2017 I've bust out laughing at some of the things asked me interviews. As a 16-year-old, a stake president (I don't know why he was doing the asking or why in a 10-ward stake he'd be there doing the asking) asked me about sheep. I get asked for huge monetary contributions for various pet projects or to pay for somebody's extravagant funeral decisions. They're just men. They're not gods. We are take things in stride, and one thing to take in stride is the fact that children, especially older children, need to repent, need to be encouraged to avoid premarital sex or masturbation, and that can only be wisely done one-on-one. 1
phaedrus ut Posted December 13, 2017 Posted December 13, 2017 I have never personally had intrusive questions beyond "do you keep the law of chastity and do you look at pornography". My wife however did and I've written about it on here before. It started in an interview with her seeking a recommend for baptisms for the dead. He claimed to have been prompted to discuss her behavior with her own body. He asked detailed questions about her bathing and washing habits, if she had sexually explored her own body, he asked her what methods she used, how long it lasted and if she masturbated to orgasm. These questions persisted for years but it wasn't until college she realized how morally indefensible his behavior was and how it traumatized her emotionally. I learned of this when she refused to allow her family to invite this bishop to our wedding reception in her hometown. Her ultimatum with her parents was that if he was invited there would be no temple wedding and we would elope. As an adult I've had these discussions with many adult friends. Many are surprised that people are asked about masturbation in bishop interviews because they never had been. Others have told me stories like my wives were bishops asked for overly detailed descriptions of there sexual behaviors. It has been our family policy that all such interviews happen with one of us in the interview and all questions about our children's sex life are off limits. Phaedrus 4
bsjkki Posted December 13, 2017 Author Posted December 13, 2017 (edited) 8 minutes ago, rongo said: I have never gone into detail about these things, either. The FtSoY section is sufficient for that. Does that make you feel better? I do hardly any prying at all. I think you would be surprised if you simply ask them "Would you please explain the Law of Chastity?" I would not want you to ask that of my daughters. Let them answer yes or no to the, do you live the law of chastity question, but to explain the law of chastity to a man...awful. No young girl I know would every want to explain this to a Bishopric member in a private interview. I am horrified just imagining it. I like my current Bishop..he would not ask that of them. I do not like my new counselor just sustained. We will avoid him. Edited December 13, 2017 by bsjkki 3
ALarson Posted December 13, 2017 Posted December 13, 2017 (edited) 19 minutes ago, rongo said: I think you would be surprised if you simply ask them "Would you please explain the Law of Chastity?" I don't put them on the spot like that. I accept their answer to the question. I cannot imagine any youth bringing up the topics you're referring to (masturbation, porn, oral sex, levi loving....) unless you bring them up first. I'm pretty uncomfortable with any adult doing that when they are alone with a youth behind closed doors. Edited December 13, 2017 by ALarson
strappinglad Posted December 13, 2017 Posted December 13, 2017 People are great at rationalizing . Youth can be especially good at it. Take speeding for example. If I drive at 10 over the limit on a clear dry day with little to no traffic , I tell myself , no harm no foul. If I happen to pass a speed trap during that time and am stopped , I can try to argue my way out of a ticket. Does the cop have every right to issue a ticket? Sure. Can I claim ignorance of the law to plead my case? Good luck with that. With respect to the LoC , most adults know the law and all its nuances. The youth might know the large general rules but not the nuances. Good parents will have taught the nuances , but I suspect most parents slide around the specific details. Heavens , I was over 50 before I came upon some of the behaviors people get into that were, to say the least, WEIRD ! to me anyway. Humans can be so inventive !
ksfisher Posted December 13, 2017 Posted December 13, 2017 33 minutes ago, rongo said: You're a counselor, right? Do you just say "Do you keep the law of chastity" and move on to the next question? What do you say when they look confused or even say that they don't understand the question? How do you explain it? For that matter, how do/did you explain the law of chastity to your own children? There is a definite lack of much teaching on this score from a lot of parents, that's for sure. I've had a 17 year old tell me he didn't know what the word chastity meant.
hope_for_things Posted December 13, 2017 Posted December 13, 2017 43 minutes ago, Danzo said: Using a threat of "Inactivity" to coerce other people sounds a bit lame to me. The bishop is in the position of authority, and D&C 121 talks about misuse of authority. Regular members have no authority to set terms. It seems to me that the charge of coercion is more appropriate in the context of a bishop that would refuse to accommodate and rather than against a regular member who is just responding to the actions of the authority. 1
bsjkki Posted December 13, 2017 Author Posted December 13, 2017 3 minutes ago, strappinglad said: People are great at rationalizing . Youth can be especially good at it. Take speeding for example. If I drive at 10 over the limit on a clear dry day with little to no traffic , I tell myself , no harm no foul. If I happen to pass a speed trap during that time and am stopped , I can try to argue my way out of a ticket. Does the cop have every right to issue a ticket? Sure. Can I claim ignorance of the law to plead my case? Good luck with that. With respect to the LoC , most adults know the law and all its nuances. The youth might know the large general rules but not the nuances. Good parents will have taught the nuances , but I suspect most parents slide around the specific details. Heavens , I was over 50 before I came upon some of the behaviors people get into that were, to say the least, WEIRD ! to me anyway. Humans can be so inventive ! Some children are innocent of nuances and do not know of them nor are emotionally ready for those nuances to be explained. I would not want a Bishopric member to presume to explain these nuances...disgusting. 2
ALarson Posted December 13, 2017 Posted December 13, 2017 2 minutes ago, ksfisher said: I've had a 17 year old tell me he didn't know what the word chastity meant. There are lessons on the Law of Chastity given each year. Was he inactive?
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