Coffee an Tea

[poptart]

9 hours ago, Jane_Doe said:

It that case it's a good thing I try really hard and Christ's super-charges me for that effort.

You on the other hand may be that rare exception which is very rarely found, especially stateside.  Forgot to add last nigjt I did know one person that Christlike, a nun.

[Rain]

1 hour ago, poptart said:

There's that disconnect again. It's a hallmark of people here in the states, they'll stand there and have blind faith in something even after acknowledging that most fall short and the way I see it most are garbage.  I'd look at the martyred saints Boniface as inspiration, personally the idea of diety expecting me to keep a promise not to drink coffee is foolishness and reaks of superstition.  I've been called out in that before and my retort stays the same, give up your wealth and serve the poor as Christ did, else your like the majority of religious Americans I've met, cheap.   What' so hard with admitting you follow a religion out of duty, obligation and order?  It's so much more honest.

It's only honest if it is actually true. 

Perhaps you need to go where people are serving others. I have seen and know many people who are giving up wealth and are serving others. A couple of weeks ago one of my friend's friend gave 1000s of dollars worth of furniture to furnish homes of those who have nothing. I know others who collect that furniture and furniture from others and put together homes. I know a person who pays for a warehouse that stores this furniture till it is needed and a woman who donates her truck to move it.  I know women who travel an hour or more each week to teach English classes so that others can get jobs. I know people who cook meals for refugees coming in to the country for the first time and others buying several weeks of groceries for them. Then there are people who collect needed items from people here who ship the items to people in refugee camps. People who work in those camps and distribute those items. And all along the way people are praying, asking God to help them know how to give more and give best. And that's just one charitble organization. 

If you are not seeing these kind of things then go where you can see them before assuming religious Americans are blind and selfish.

It's kind of funny to me that the WoW and charitable giving are in the same thread, but then I had to laugh because in not consuming coffee and tea then some of the people I talked about above have more money to buy groceries, which include coffee and tea, for others who have nothing. 

Edited December 11, 2017 by Rain

[Rain]

And all that makes me wonder. Those of you have joined the church later on or for a time drank coffee/tea and then gave it up - did you replace it with something else? 

I'm just thinking that if most people who have given up smoking when they realized how much it cost them in a year. I realize that giving up coffee and tea is much less likely to save you as much, but there could be a reason to live the WoW in regards to coffee that I hadn't considered before.

Edited December 11, 2017 by Rain

[Jane_Doe]

1 hour ago, poptart said:

You on the other hand may be that rare exception which is very rarely found, especially stateside.  Forgot to add last nigjt I did know one person that Christlike, a nun.

If you'd ask around this forum, I'd bet you'd find I'm not that rare of an example.

1 hour ago, poptart said:

 What' so hard with admitting you follow a religion out of duty, obligation and order?  It's so much more honest.

Because that's most people honestly don't have have faith for that reason.

[Tacenda]

1 hour ago, Rain said:

And all that makes me wonder. Those of you have joined the church later on or for a time drank coffee/tea and then gave it up - did you replace it with something else? 

I'm just thinking that if most people who have given up smoking when they realized how much it cost them in a year. I realize that giving up coffee and tea is much less likely to save you as much, but there could be a reason to live the WoW in regards to coffee that I hadn't considered before.

This reminds me of my uncle, he was a cattle rancher and drank coffee. Then he was called as a bishop and had to give up his coffee. He turned to Coke. He drank almost a six pack a day my mom told me. I hope not!

[poptart]

35 minutes ago, Rain said:

It's only honest if it is actually true. 

Perhaps you need to go where people are serving others. I have seen and know many people who are giving up wealth and are serving others. A couple of weeks ago one of my friend's friend gave 1000s of dollars worth of furniture to furnish homes of those who have nothing. I know others who collect that furniture and furniture from others and put together homes. I know a person who pays for a warehouse that stores this furniture till it is needed and a woman who donates her truck to move it.  I know women who travel an hour or more each week to teach English classes so that others can get jobs. I know people who cook meals for refugees coming in to the country for the first time and others buying several weeks of groceries for them. Then there are people who collect needed items from people here who ship the items to people in refugee camps. People who work in those camps and distribute those items. And all along the way people are praying, asking God to help them know how to give more and give best. And that's just one charitale organization. 

If you are not seeing these kind of things then go where you can see them before assuming religious Americans are blind and selfish.

It's kind of funny to me that the WoW and charitable giving are in the same thread, but then I had to laugh because in not consuming coffee and tea then some of the people I talked about above have more money to buy groceries, which include coffee and tea, for others who have nothing. 

I'l give you that, tea and coffee isn' cheap.

Thing is, I've tried religion before and looked at as a crap tier investment/convert prospect, tbh I'd have to be able to trust people first and since I've been burned before I'm even more Leary and still stand by my statement.

[poptart]

1 hour ago, Jane_Doe said:

If you'd ask around this forum, I'd bet you'd find I'm not that rare of an example.

Because that's most people honestly don't have have faith for that reason.

Uh, what?

[Jane_Doe]

1 hour ago, poptart said:

Uh, what?

Most people are honestly not involved in faith for material gain.  I am not a freak in that regard.

[poptart]

1 hour ago, Jane_Doe said:

Most people are honestly not involved in faith for material gain.  I am not a freak in that regard.

Again, I have seen otherwise.  Look at the rise of evangelical churches, a good chunk of them get in trouble with their taxes.  Sadly, even a lot of the neo-pagan groups that are racist come about because disenfranchised segments get ignored, judged and rejected due to ptsd from the military, being felons etc.  Can't have the black sheep near the blessed who God chose to be wealthy can we?  Look at the protest where that marine decked that sjw piece of garbage if you want to see my point.

Edited December 11, 2017 by poptart

[RevTestament]

On 12/6/2017 at 3:02 PM, Rivers said:

I can understand why tobacco is outlawed in the Word of Wisdom.  It also makes sense that alcohol is in there considering all the negative effects of alcoholism. But why tea and coffee?  Is there any good scientific literature out there that supports the declaration that tea and coffee is “not good?”

I will say this much. I joined the church when I was 13. Growing up I had iced tea every evening - after which I would normally be a bundle of energy until at least 8 pm. The only way I liked tea was with added sugar. My step mom also made a nice cup of Cuban coffee for me every once in a while. The only way I liked it was with lots of sugar and cream ie Cuban style. I doubt either of these were "healthy" for me. My grandmother got up to 5 cups of coffee per day, until she was diagnosed with hypertension. I believe her doctor recommended that she cut coffee. Until then she would poke at us for refusing to drink coffee and tea - she stopped doing that.  Her hypertension improved and she lived to be 96.

While there may not be tons of literature on the subject, I believe there is enough to show there is a connection between caffeine intake and adrenal cortisol production. I believe that too much caffeine intake can lead to adrenal fatigue and perhaps other irregularities from the cortisol such as insomnia. The Lord recommended his prophets go to bed early, and would often raise them early with the word. I think in our society adults often stay up too late, are too dependent on the stimulating affects of cortisol, and eventually develop various health effects from it such as hypertension. I won't be able to point you to any scientific literature showing a direct connection, but I truly believe it's there. 

[Jane_Doe]

6 minutes ago, poptart said:

Again, I have seen otherwise.  

Would you like to see for yourself that most people aren't involved in faith for the money?

[poptart]

29 minutes ago, Jane_Doe said:

Would you like to see for yourself that most people aren't involved in faith for the money?

I've had my throat slit playing that game before, I'm poor, have debt and mental issues plus I'm not religious in the sense you are, I go with science and facts.  It would take them making the first move, I'd expect a counter of how worthy are you which would escalate in me saying screw it and walking. 

Edited December 11, 2017 by poptart

[Hamba Tuhan]

6 hours ago, Rain said:

I'm just thinking that if most people who have given up smoking when they realized how much it cost them in a year. I realize that giving up coffee and tea is much less likely to save you as much, but there could be a reason to live the WoW in regards to coffee that I hadn't considered before.

A man who was baptised in our ward a couple of years ago did the sums. His total expenditure on alcohol, tobacco, coffee and tea greatly exceeded 10% of his income. As he put it to me, by choosing to live the WofW and becoming a tithe payer, he'd come out financially ahead. 

[Jane_Doe]

12 minutes ago, poptart said:

I've had my throat slit playing that game before, I'm poor, have debt and mental issues plus I'm not religious in the sense you are, I go with science and facts.  It would take them making the first move, I'd expect a counter of how worthy are you which would escalate in me saying screw it and walking. 

I also like science and facts.  That's why I'm getting a science phD.  It's certainly not for the money-- student life empties your pockets quite quickly.  

 

[poptart]

12 minutes ago, Jane_Doe said:

I also like science and facts.  That's why I'm getting a science phD.  It's certainly not for the money-- student life empties your pockets quite quickly.  

 

You know, Germany and I think a few other eu countries have free education for foreigners, could have gone to school for free.

[Jane_Doe]

4 minutes ago, poptart said:

You know, Germany and I think a few other eu countries have free education for foreigners, could have gone to school for free.

Nah, I'm good   

[poptart]

2 minutes ago, Jane_Doe said:

Nah, I'm good   

Your  pocketbook.

[Rivers]

I’ve been thinking about the three major prohibitions in the Word of Wisdom: Tobacco, alcohol, and hot drinks (a.k.a. tea and coffee).  The one thing all three have in common is that they are addictive.   Apparently the Lord doesn’t want us addicted to anything.  

[HappyJackWagon]

3 hours ago, Rivers said:

I’ve been thinking about the three major prohibitions in the Word of Wisdom: Tobacco, alcohol, and hot drinks (a.k.a. tea and coffee).  The one thing all three have in common is that they are addictive.   Apparently the Lord doesn’t want us addicted to anything.  

Avoiding addiction is great council.

Of course many, many people are able to moderate their consumption and suffer no deleterious effects. I think that's what the Lord desires. I don't think He's into loyalty tests of  obedience