Duncan Posted November 12, 2017 Posted November 12, 2017 Why does the ordinances we do in the Temple, i.e. baptisms for the dead, marriages, sealings, why must they be done in a Temple and not done in a chapel or something. I know there have been exceptions to this, mountain tops, rivers, the endowment house etc.
Robert F. Smith Posted November 12, 2017 Posted November 12, 2017 55 minutes ago, Duncan said: Why does the ordinances we do in the Temple, i.e. baptisms for the dead, marriages, sealings, why must they be done in a Temple and not done in a chapel or something. I know there have been exceptions to this, mountain tops, rivers, the endowment house etc. A temple, tabernacle (tent), endowment house, sanctuary, high place, bama, temenos,. etc. All are terms for places set apart for holy ordinances. The Garden of Eden was also a temple, even though it was not a building. What is wrong with that? 1
Duncan Posted November 12, 2017 Author Posted November 12, 2017 7 minutes ago, Robert F. Smith said: A temple, tabernacle (tent), endowment house, sanctuary, high place, bama, temenos,. etc. All are terms for places set apart for holy ordinances. The Garden of Eden was also a temple, even though it was not a building. What is wrong with that? nothing, I didn't say there was anything wrong. I was thinking why do we do baptisms for the living in a chapel building but baptisms for the dead et el in a Temple. I know chapels are dedicated also 3
Jane_Doe Posted November 12, 2017 Posted November 12, 2017 55 minutes ago, Duncan said: nothing, I didn't say there was anything wrong. I was thinking why do we do baptisms for the living in a chapel building but baptisms for the dead et el in a Temple. I know chapels are dedicated also Chapels aren't dedicated the same way temples are. Temples are specifically set apart for those ordinances. Speaking the philosophy of Jane, I think the purpose is not the building itself, more more just setting a special place apart for that any nothing else-- you're journeying there with only a single purpose. 3
Robert F. Smith Posted November 12, 2017 Posted November 12, 2017 1 hour ago, Duncan said: nothing, I didn't say there was anything wrong. I was thinking why do we do baptisms for the living in a chapel building but baptisms for the dead et el in a Temple. I know chapels are dedicated also The dedication has to be for a specific purpose, and the digital system is most conveniently available for recording baptisms for the dead in temples these days. A very practical consideration. Otherwise, why would it matter? 1
Duncan Posted November 12, 2017 Author Posted November 12, 2017 28 minutes ago, Robert F. Smith said: The dedication has to be for a specific purpose, and the digital system is most conveniently available for recording baptisms for the dead in temples these days. A very practical consideration. Otherwise, why would it matter? that's what I wonder, why have a specific building for these ordinances and not others? we can get baptized for the living in rivers, streams, ponds, backyard pools etc.
ksfisher Posted November 12, 2017 Posted November 12, 2017 3 hours ago, Duncan said: Why does the ordinances we do in the Temple, i.e. baptisms for the dead, marriages, sealings, why must they be done in a Temple and not done in a chapel or something. I know there have been exceptions to this, mountain tops, rivers, the endowment house etc. The Lord has commanded that the ordinance of baptism for the dead be performed in a temple. Need there be another reason? 30 For this ordinance belongeth to my house, and cannot be acceptable to me, only in the days of your poverty, wherein ye are not able to build a house unto me. 31 But I command you, all ye my saints, to build a house unto me; and I grant unto you a sufficient time to build a house unto me; and during this time your baptisms shall be acceptable unto me. 32 But behold, at the end of this appointment your baptisms for your dead shall not be acceptable unto me; and if you do not these things at the end of the appointment ye shall be rejected as a church, with your dead, saith the Lord your God. (D&C 124) 4
JLHPROF Posted November 12, 2017 Posted November 12, 2017 1 hour ago, Duncan said: that's what I wonder, why have a specific building for these ordinances and not others? we can get baptized for the living in rivers, streams, ponds, backyard pools etc. It used to be the practice to dedicate the water before performing baptism too. (Not sure where I reaf that -I'll try and find it.) And sealings and endowments have been performed outside of temples many times, but always in a place dedicated for that purpose. 2
Jane_Doe Posted November 12, 2017 Posted November 12, 2017 10 hours ago, Duncan said: that's what I wonder, why have a specific building for these ordinances and not others? we can get baptized for the living in rivers, streams, ponds, backyard pools etc. To have a specific spot for it and nothing else. 1
mfbukowski Posted November 12, 2017 Posted November 12, 2017 They must be performed in special areas or buildings dedicated for the purpose- that becomes like a "conduit" to the other side. That is my personal belief. "The veil is thin" in the temple- there is no question in my mind or experience that that is the case. If you like science fiction- "that is where the portal is" 1
Thinking Posted November 13, 2017 Posted November 13, 2017 On 11/11/2017 at 10:14 PM, ksfisher said: But behold, at the end of this appointment your baptisms for your dead shall not be acceptable unto me; and if you do not these things at the end of the appointment ye shall be rejected as a church, with your dead, saith the Lord your God. If this revelation is accurate, the Lord threatens to not only reject the church but also the dead who are waiting for their work to be done. How does this fit with the second article of faith? "We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam’s transgression."
The Nehor Posted November 13, 2017 Posted November 13, 2017 (edited) 36 minutes ago, Thinking said: If this revelation is accurate, the Lord threatens to not only reject the church but also the dead who are waiting for their work to be done. How does this fit with the second article of faith? "We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam’s transgression." He is saying that the Work will be invalid if not done as commanded, not that the dead are damned for the sins of their descendants. Presumably if defiance from the living was the response God would have created a new group of Saints to do the work. Edited November 13, 2017 by The Nehor 1
Calm Posted November 13, 2017 Posted November 13, 2017 On November 11, 2017 at 11:20 PM, JLHPROF said: It used to be the practice to dedicate the water before performing baptism too. (Not sure where I reaf that -I'll try and find it.) And sealings and endowments have been performed outside of temples many times, but always in a place dedicated for that purpose. Ordinances for the dead...iirc only baptism was ever performed outside a temple, correct? very interested to hear of dedication of the water. It makes sense.
mfbukowski Posted November 14, 2017 Posted November 14, 2017 On 11/12/2017 at 10:48 PM, Thinking said: If this revelation is accurate, the Lord threatens to not only reject the church but also the dead who are waiting for their work to be done. How does this fit with the second article of faith? "We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam’s transgression." What's your point? Obviously if He rejects the church the articles of faith are irrelevant. That is hard to figure out?? Is this supposed to be some kind of "gotcha"?
mfbukowski Posted November 14, 2017 Posted November 14, 2017 20 hours ago, Calm said: Ordinances for the dead...iirc only baptism was ever performed outside a temple, correct? very interested to hear of dedication of the water. It makes sense. Quote In his Red Brick Store at Nauvoo, Illinois, the Prophet Joseph Smith prepared his successors to carry on the "great and mighty work" of God. 1 Originally built in 1841, the store became headquarters for the Church shortly after its completion. A dry goods store was located on the ground floor, and Joseph's office and a meeting hall occupied the upper level. Here, priesthood keys to govern the Church were "rolled on to the shoulders" 2 of the Twelve Apostles. The Prophet spent many hours instructing these brethren during the last months of his life so that they could lead the Church in his absence. In the upstairs room, Joseph organized the Female Relief Society 3 of Nauvoo, "not only to relieve the poor, but to save souls." 4 Here the Prophet administered to some Church members sacred ordinances that would later be made available to all worthy Saints in holy temples. 5 And here, Joseph Smith recorded the revelation on the new and everlasting covenant of marriage, completed the translation of the Book of Abraham, and wrote the famous Wentworth letter containing the Articles of Faith. https://history.lds.org/article/historic-sites/illinois/nauvoo/red-brick-store?lang=eng
Thinking Posted November 14, 2017 Posted November 14, 2017 (edited) 15 hours ago, mfbukowski said: What's your point? That is hard to figure out? 15 hours ago, mfbukowski said: Obviously if He rejects the church the articles of faith are irrelevant. Not obviously. Can a principle be true independent of Mormonism? Edited November 14, 2017 by Thinking
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