Moses and the Only Begotten

[theplains]

Moses 1:6 says, "And I have a work for thee, Moses, my son; and thou art in the similitude of mine Only Begotten;
and mine Only Begotten is and shall be the Savior, for he is full of grace and truth; but there is no God beside me,
and all things are present with me, for I know them all."

What does "only begotten" mean here?

Thanks,
Jim

[Duncan]

Only begotten in the flesh, Jesus was God's only begotten son in the flesh, Moses and the rest of us are sons and daughters in spirit-as in God is the father of our spirits

 

https://www.lds.org/scriptures/triple-index/jesus-christ-only-begotten-son?lang=eng&clang=eng#title2

Edited November 1, 2017 by Duncan

[clarkgoble]

15 minutes ago, Duncan said:

Only begotten in the flesh, Jesus was God's only begotten son in the flesh, Moses and the rest of us are sons and daughters in spirit-as in God is the father of our spirits

https://www.lds.org/scriptures/triple-index/jesus-christ-only-begotten-son?lang=eng&clang=eng#title2

While technically John 3:16 means literally "only begotten" (mono-gene in the greek) most scholars argue it means unique. Mormons think that uniqueness is that he's literally God's some in some physical sense in a way that say Adam or others aren't. It's worth noting that monogene is used to translate Psalm 22:20 and 25:16 in the Greek OT. Those don't mean only born of the flesh.  In fact the KJV translates the underlying word as "darling" or "lonely." 

I'm not saying the theology is wrong. I think the theology of Christ's physical birth is pretty established in Mormon thought. Just that the meaning of "only begotten" is a bit more ambiguous than most discuss it.

Turning to Moses 1 we all naturally read this as implying the physical birth of Christ, but it's not at all clear to me that's what it meant to Joseph Smith at the time it was translated. I'd have to check the evolution of the theology of early Mormon Christology but I think the current theology developed later on. That's not to say it's not there potentially as meaning in Moses 1. Just that the passage may be a bit more open or complex than it appears at first glance.

Edited November 1, 2017 by clarkgoble

[MDalby]

I think it has more meaning as a title than as an indication of the only son.  As indicated below, Isaac was referred to as Abraham's only begotten but Isaac was not Abraham's only son.

17 By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son,
(Hebrews 11:17)

 

[MDalby]

Does this verse have application to this topic? 

 4 Behold, my soul delighteth in proving unto my people the truth of the coming of Christ; for, for this end hath the law of Moses been given; and all things which have been given of God from the beginning of the world, unto man, are the typifying of him.
(2 Nephi 11:4)

[Robert F. Smith]

6 hours ago, clarkgoble said:

While technically John 3:16 means literally "only begotten" (mono-gene in the greek) most scholars argue it means unique. Mormons think that uniqueness is that he's literally God's some in some physical sense in a way that say Adam or others aren't. It's worth noting that monogene is used to translate Psalm 22:20 and 25:16 in the Greek OT. Those don't mean only born of the flesh.  In fact the KJV translates the underlying word as "darling" or "lonely." 

I think you meant "only," Clark, which is the literal meaning of the Hebrew yaḥid, which is the Hebrew Vorlage of Greek monogenēs "only, unique."  However, the Hebrew term actually "refers in a legal sense to the only designated heir."  Hayim ben Yosef Tawil,  An Akkadian Lexical Companion for Biblical Hebrew (KTAV, 2009), 142.

6 hours ago, clarkgoble said:

I'm not saying the theology is wrong. I think the theology of Christ's physical birth is pretty established in Mormon thought. Just that the meaning of "only begotten" is a bit more ambiguous than most discuss it.

Turning to Moses 1 we all naturally read this as implying the physical birth of Christ, but it's not at all clear to me that's what it meant to Joseph Smith at the time it was translated. I'd have to check the evolution of the theology of early Mormon Christology but I think the current theology developed later on. That's not to say it's not there potentially as meaning in Moses 1. Just that the passage may be a bit more open or complex than it appears at first glance.

 

3 hours ago, MDalby said:

I think it has more meaning as a title than as an indication of the only son.  As indicated below, Isaac was referred to as Abraham's only begotten but Isaac was not Abraham's only son.

17 By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son,
(Hebrews 11:17)

So Isaac is a type of Jesus Christ, both legal heirs to their physical fathers.  "His only begotten son" might better be translated "His sole heir."

[clarkgoble]

1 hour ago, Robert F. Smith said:

I think you meant "only," Clark, which is the literal meaning of the Hebrew yaḥid, which is the Hebrew Vorlage of Greek monogenēs "only, unique."  However, the Hebrew term actually "refers in a legal sense to the only designated heir."  Hayim ben Yosef Tawil,  An Akkadian Lexical Companion for Biblical Hebrew (KTAV, 2009), 142.

I was speaking of the greek word the different hebrew words were translated too. I'll certainly bow to greek speakers who know more than I though. But the hebrew wasn't the issue but the word in the greek old testament as a clue to the meaning of the greek word in the new testament.

1 hour ago, Robert F. Smith said:

So Isaac is a type of Jesus Christ, both legal heirs to their physical fathers.  "His only begotten son" might better be translated "His sole heir."

If we use Isaac as a type but my point was more that the word itself has a more expansive sense in greek. I think sole heir captures some of that, but also adds in things that might not be part of the word. Although theologically of course the "sole heir" can easily be defended in the new testament. I think that particularly in Moses 1 much more is intended particularly in verse 6. I tend to read it in light of Mosiah 15. Both were received within a year of each other as I recall.

Edited November 2, 2017 by clarkgoble

[Robert F. Smith]

1 hour ago, clarkgoble said:

I was speaking of the greek word the different hebrew words were translated too. I'll certainly bow to greek speakers who know more than I though. But the hebrew wasn't the issue but the word in the greek old testament as a clue to the meaning of the greek word in the new testament.

If we use Isaac as a type but my point was more that the word itself has a more expansive sense in greek.

The text in Jacob 4:5b is indicative: 

Quote

it is sanctified unto us for righteousness, even as it was accounted unto Abraham in the wilderness to be obedient unto the commands of God in offering up his son Isaac, which is a similitude of God and his Only Begotten Son.

 

1 hour ago, clarkgoble said:

I think sole heir captures some of that, but also adds in things that might not be part of the word. Although theologically of course the "sole heir" can easily be defended in the new testament. I think that particularly in Moses 1 much more is intended particularly in verse 6. I tend to read it in light of Mosiah 15. Both were received within a year of each other as I recall.

The KJV is a poor guide to the meaning of such theologically loaded terms, but more interesting for your purposes is 1QSa/1Q28a 2:11-12, which has God “fathering, begetting” (Hebrew holid) the Messiah of Israel: "when [God] has fa[th]ered the Messiah."

J. J. Collins, "A Pre-Christian 'Son of God' Among the Dead Sea Scrolls," Bible Review, 9/3 (June 1993):34-38,57.

Israel Knohl, The Messiah Before Jesus: The Suffering Servant of the Dead Sea Scrolls (Berkeley: U.C. Press, 2000).

Michael Wise, The First Messiah: Investigating the Savior Before Christ (S.F.: HarperSanFrancisco, 1999).

[RevTestament]

On 11/1/2017 at 2:45 PM, theplains said:

Moses 1:6 says, "And I have a work for thee, Moses, my son; and thou art in the similitude of mine Only Begotten;
and mine Only Begotten is and shall be the Savior, for he is full of grace and truth; but there is no God beside me,
and all things are present with me, for I know them all."

What does "only begotten" mean here?

Thanks,
Jim

I will give my nonofficial answer. This scripture confirms the rest of the NT that Yeshua was already begotten before He was sent into the world. I don't believe it has anything to do with His human birth. I believe it has to do with His receipt of the oath from His Father that "thou art my Son, this day I have begotten thee" by which He became the only begotten Son of the Father as Hebrews says.

[nuclearfuels]

I think Only BEgotten means that Jehovah was the Firstborn (first intelligence organized into a spirit body) be His Heavenly Parents. IN addition to being the eldest and firstborn, the Savior is also 50% genetically and biologically like His Father.