LDS Church plans to decrease missions; utilize tech savviness to locate religious-minded people

[rongo]

3 hours ago, HappyJackWagon said:

Is the missionary work being directed by prophets, seers, and revelators who receive inspiration from God & Jesus via the spirit? Or are they just experimenting to see what works in today's day and age? Is it inspiration or trial and error?

David Stewart made a good point in his book on member missionary work. He said that programs that undergo a lot of revision and tinkering are an indication of not being sure what the answer is (hence all of the revision and tinkering) --- and the missionary program (full-time and local) is the program with the most volatility of all. Pilot programs, initiatives, changes, etc. all indicate that the Brethren are constantly trying new things out but unsure of what the overall answer is. From discussions to Preach My Gospel; stake missions abolished; lowering the mission age; guidelines; interview questions; service only missions piloted; absolute ban on tracting piloted; length of missions; last six months focusing solely on life skills, like interviewing, resumes, dating, etc.--- I'm sure we can think of other major changes and revision in not that many years. 

I think that the approach in recent years has been much more trial and error than inspiration. The Brethren hold the priesthood keys, but I think it's obvious that we have been led by a corporate, business-driven model for some time now, that sets a lot of store by surveys, focus groups, and feedback. I also think it's clear that there has been a shift in emphasis from missions' purpose being to perform missionary work to missions' purpose being to keep young people from going inactive. I think this is a valid concern.

[rongo]

2 hours ago, stemelbow said:

Is there too much hand holding, then, in terms of missionaries these days?  Meaning, missionaries are allowed to do it differently, to accommodate missionaries and not to accommodate the production of the work? 

Absolutely. When I share mission stories with missionaries, they are dumbfounded that we were able to do certain things like attend other churches, be alone for most of the day on transfers (now, all missionaries go to the mission home with their comps whether they are being transferred or not. This is even true in Poland, where my parents just returned in March). 

I've shared this before, but a member of the seventy told our stake a few years ago that we had a duty as members to shield our missionaries from any negative experiences, and to ensure that they only had positive ones. This was when they rolled out the "no tracting, and make the members be responsible for all investigators" model in our area. If that isn't coddling and hand-holding, I don't know what is. This is definitely the spirit behind the rules we currently have in missions. 

[california boy]

2 hours ago, nuclearfuels said:

Its prophesied that in the Last Days, the missionaries will be called home since God will preach via natural disasters, plagues, famine, war, etc.  (Not sure if "called home" means no more missions, or simply missionaries are called to their homelands.) 

The problem is, very few people still believes natural disasters wars and plagues are sent by God to punish people.  They know what causes earthquakes, hurricanes, tidal waves war, plagues, etc.  So if the plan is to scare everyone into submission, I doubt very much it is going to be effective.  

[Avatar4321]

president Benson said missionary work is work.

are we working like we should?

[rongo]

1 hour ago, Steve-o said:

You're pretty harsh and dismissive of the younger generation. I think the obvious bias weakens your argument. It sounds like you're ready to wash your hands of the entire generation.

My father was a YSA bishop for six years (the norm is three years, but he was very good. His replacement only lasted six months after he couldn't handle the time commitment and stress of dealing with YSA problems). I am a public school teacher of 15 years, and am in my second term as a bishop. Prior to that I was in two other bishoprics, and have been an EQP twice and a WML twice. Based on my experience, the millennial generation (including LDS youth) collectively have major problems with competency and commitment. There are bright spots and notable exceptions, but it makes you weep. 

I lay this at the feet of their parents and grandparents, who have collectively spoiled and coddled generations with the inevitable results. The exceptions occur when there is determined effort to swim against this cultural current. It takes conscious decisions and in some cases sacrifices to help kids and youth not be a millennial snowflake. For example, my children don't have phones or devices, and we are a relatively poor family, but this means that they were raised with lots of family time and making our own fun. They learned to work and that they don't get everything they want when they want it.  We don't have the addictions and habits of their generation, and they have imaginations, intellectual/academic acumen, and social and spiritual maturity far beyond their peers. We are often asked what we did with raising our kids, and we tell people that they don't really want our life or what we did to raise them. Church and inexpensive fun are at the heart of it. 

As our stake has discussed what to do about our declining number of missionaries (Salt Lake has gotten after our stake president), I brought up that most youth don't know any of their parents mission stories (people, places, events). Why would they want to go on a mission when the most important connection/link (parents) has not been made? My children know all of my mission stories, and my father's as well (we both served in the same mission). I could see that the stake presidency knew that this was a true thing --- parents have not talked much about their missions at all. Their kids know that they served a mission, but they know next to nothing about it. This is how they learn of the romance, adventure and power of the mission experience, but most have only heard leaders mention these things (if at all) --- not their own parents. 

I'm sure they have their faults and weaknesses but why berate the snowflake millenials for doing work the way they're being assigned to do it by their leaders?

This is a very good point. I have repeatedly said that I don't blame them for doing what they have been instructed to do. In this sense, it's not their fault. However, there are two types of missionaries: those who follow instructions and stay at the church unless they have an appointment, and those who get out and talk to people, anyway. This is where our baptisms have come from, including two in the last year who received their endowments. They would never have been found if missionaries had not used their initiative to knock doors or talk to people in front of their homes. 

[rongo]

3 minutes ago, Avatar4321 said:

president Benson said missionary work is work.

are we working like we should?

I think the world of Elder Anderson, but do you remember his conference talk "It's not missionary work --- it's missionary fun!"?  That theme is geared to the current generation of youth.

Wilford Woodruff said that we learn the gospel by shoe leather. That is literally the case. A lot of learning and communing with the Spirit comes while one is out and working, not planning and planning to plan . . .  

[Avatar4321]

7 hours ago, rongo said:

I think the world of Elder Anderson, but do you remember his conference talk "It's not missionary work --- it's missionary fun!"?  That theme is geared to the current generation of youth.

Wilford Woodruff said that we learn the gospel by shoe leather. That is literally the case. A lot of learning and communing with the Spirit comes while one is out and working, not planning and planning to plan . . .  

I agree. I've noticed lately that my spiritual experiences have been increasing because I've been practicing faith more and seeking to act by the spirit rather than just work on auto pilot

Edited October 31, 2017 by Avatar4321
Spelling

[rongo]

2 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Finally, I think it is overly simplistic to blame today's missionary force and missionary methods for the consequences of a growing secularism in the world and general antipathy among rising generations toward religion and things of the Spirit.

There has been "growing secularism" and "general antipathy among rising generations towards religions and things of the Spirit" for a long, long time. I don't think it's any worse now than it was in the mid 1990s in Germany, or the 1970s in Sweden. They were just the vanguard preceding its arrival in the U.S. later . . .  

If anything, it makes it easier to find the seekers (not all of whom become LDS --- some gravitate to JW, 7DA, Pentacostal, etc.). There are people whom the message resonates with, in spite of and sometimes because of the hostile social atmosphere towards religion. 

I do agree that we have a certain mix of people on the earth right now that is markedly different from the first generation converts in Europe whose descendants continue to dominate the Church. There are definitely peoples who are more open and in tune with the message than others. But, oh what joy there is in finding those few among the heathen!  

[clarkgoble]

1 hour ago, rongo said:

David Stewart made a good point in his book on member missionary work. He said that programs that undergo a lot of revision and tinkering are an indication of not being sure what the answer is (hence all of the revision and tinkering) --- and the missionary program (full-time and local) is the program with the most volatility of all. Pilot programs, initiatives, changes, etc. all indicate that the Brethren are constantly trying new things out but unsure of what the overall answer is. From discussions to Preach My Gospel; stake missions abolished; lowering the mission age; guidelines; interview questions; service only missions piloted; absolute ban on tracting piloted; length of missions; last six months focusing solely on life skills, like interviewing, resumes, dating, etc.--- I'm sure we can think of other major changes and revision in not that many years. 

I think that the approach in recent years has been much more trial and error than inspiration. The Brethren hold the priesthood keys, but I think it's obvious that we have been led by a corporate, business-driven model for some time now, that sets a lot of store by surveys, focus groups, and feedback. I also think it's clear that there has been a shift in emphasis from missions' purpose being to perform missionary work to missions' purpose being to keep young people from going inactive. I think this is a valid concern.

Or it's following God's direction that praying for answers requires studying things out. 

Saying testing things out is an indication of a corporate business model seems dubious. If anything I'm inclined to praise them for trying things out rather than just being convinced one way is the right way. My personal opinion is that if there's a problem it's in thinking there's a single solution that will work everywhere. I rather suspect we need a system with a very different missionary program in Europe from say Asia. The problem is that the logistics of such localism can be daunting. Especially keeping track of abuses and flaws.

The second issue is that there are two competing goals that can often be a loggerheads. The first is the focus on finding and conversion of investigators. The second is activity in the years after the mission by missionaries along with related issues like getting married and being a leader in the church. (I don't mean being a bishop or RS president but just someone who helps the ward they are in more than they need service) What works to improve converts can sometimes reduce the amount of activity of RMs. Balancing that out is tricky - especially during a period of western history where there is extremely rapid social change.

Edited October 30, 2017 by clarkgoble

[Hamba Tuhan]

17 hours ago, rongo said:

The ironic thing is it's not a controlled experiment for comparison. WE DON'T DO THE "OLD EFFORTS" MUCH ANY MORE, so blaming the drop in conversion on the "old efforts" is off-base. I think it supports my contention that the drop is BECAUSE we aren't doing the "old efforts" any more.

You've ridden this particular hobby horse through several threads, rongo, but you're wrong. I have no idea how accurate are your depictions of what it is to be a missionary in your specific area, but I can assure you that the missionaries in our missions here still do the 'old efforts' exactly as you've described them. They don't have electronic devices. They don't do chapel tours. They do spend all day every day talking to people -- in bus interchanges, on buses, at their doors, outside the shops, etc.

I've tried to pin down how many missions in the world currently have access to tablets, and I can't be sure, but news reports suggest that it's almost certainly less than half. So yes, we have a significant control group in the Church.

I can hardly wait till our missionaries here finally get devices of some kind. They will add so much to what they are already doing.

12 hours ago, rongo said:

Based on my experience, the millennial generation (including LDS youth) collectively have major problems with competency and commitment.

I can't say what you've experienced, but I can absolutely counter it with my own experiences. I'm currently in my second iteration as ward mission leader in my ward, having just passed four years in the calling this time, and I am perpetually amazed by the competence and the commitment of the full-time missionaries that labour here. They are so much better than I remember from my own mission days, and they are certainly better than the missionaries I laboured amongst about 13 years go.

We currently have four missionaries assigned to our ward, two Elders and two Sisters. Our Sisters are from Hong Kong and America, and our Elders are from Fiji and America. They're fantastic. They work tirelessly and cheerfully and with such grace and good nature that I wonder how anyone can ever say no to them. Last week, the Sisters had filled up two pages of a progress record with all the people they'd taught. (Our Elders are both brand-new to the ward and so still finding their feet but are filled with diligence and hope.)

We've had as many as eight missionaries in our ward at once over the past four years, and I seriously can only think of two to three who weren't models of competence and commitment, and this seems to be the case regardless of where they come from. (And we've had missionaries from places as divergent as Colombia and Finland). As WML, I work closely with them, especially the Elders. I know what they're like. I know what they do. I know their hearts.

And I love them with all my heart. I was asked to give the closing prayer at stake MCM on Sunday, and I thanked Heavenly Father for sending us such precious gifts. I meant every word of what I said, and I wept as I spoke those words on behalf of the stake president and the rest of us. I can assure you, we all feel the same way. They're miracles to us.

I sincerely hope the missionaries assigned to your ward and the youth who reside in your ward don't pick up on how little you clearly think of them...

[Hamba Tuhan]

On 29/10/2017 at 9:23 AM, Avatar4321 said:

I think me field is whiter and readier than we realize

I'm with you, mate. 

[stemelbow]

16 hours ago, rongo said:

Absolutely. When I share mission stories with missionaries, they are dumbfounded that we were able to do certain things like attend other churches, be alone for most of the day on transfers (now, all missionaries go to the mission home with their comps whether they are being transferred or not. This is even true in Poland, where my parents just returned in March). 

I've shared this before, but a member of the seventy told our stake a few years ago that we had a duty as members to shield our missionaries from any negative experiences, and to ensure that they only had positive ones. This was when they rolled out the "no tracting, and make the members be responsible for all investigators" model in our area. If that isn't coddling and hand-holding, I don't know what is. This is definitely the spirit behind the rules we currently have in missions. 

I think you might be on to something.  Although I think there are tons of factors that are our problems.  One being, a retrenchment--a desire to promote tradition over that which works. 

[rongo]

1 hour ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

You've ridden this particular hobby horse through several threads, rongo, but you're wrong. I have no idea how accurate are your depictions of what it is to be a missionary in your specific area, but I can assure you that the missionaries in our missions here still do the 'old efforts' exactly as you've described them. They don't have electronic devices. They don't do chapel tours. They do spend all day every day talking to people -- in bus interchanges, on buses, at their doors, outside the shops, etc.

You're in the South Pacific, right? I definitely think that this is a North America thing, and that outside of NA missionary work is of necessity more "old fashioned." I'm simply saying that I think it would be better to have the "old fashioned" work ethic and approach in North America, too.

I've tried to pin down how many missions in the world currently have access to tablets, and I can't be sure, but news reports suggest that it's almost certainly less than half. So yes, we have a significant control group in the Church.

The news stories we're discussing here put it at an increase of from 82 missions (tablets) to 162 (smartphones).

I can hardly wait till our missionaries here finally get devices of some kind. They will add so much to what they are already doing.

My parents returned from Warsaw in March. My mother was the mission secretary, and my father managed the mission finances (among many, many other things, like serving in the branch presidency, running the YSA program, etc.). They told me that they had heard that Poland was eventually going to become a device mission, but they sincerely hoped that it wouldn't be while they were there. 

I'm genuinely interested in your specific thoughts on this. What, specifically, do you think devices will add to what they are already doing in your area? In my experience, it makes them more helpless, like when they fail to sync with MLS and have no access to the ward list (I've printed them out a paper ward list when they've panicked over this). Or, when there are Siri glitches and they can't find places (reliance on voice-controlled directions has resulted in loss of spatial awareness and mental mapping abilities). I don't think it's an improvement over paper and pencil to have an electronic calendar. Spiritual thoughts are just Mormon Messages, and I've asked them to share actual thoughts with people instead of watching videos. 

It sounds like your missionaries benefit from "old school-ism" in your area. Why add a toy that doesn't really help their actual work?

I can't say what you've experienced, but I can absolutely counter it with my own experiences . . . We've had as many as eight missionaries in our ward at once over the past four years, and I seriously can only think of two to three who weren't models of competence and commitment, and this seems to be the case regardless of where they come from.

The Brethren are careful about who they send foreign, especially given the effect of stress and adversity on this generation (cf. the comments from a Seventy I referred to in our area about shielding them from adversity. You don't hear things like that abroad). I'd like to see you work with some of ours for comparison. We just had a greenie go home from our ward in his second week in the field, due to anxiety. In the heart of "The Surge," the mission president also told us that the missionary department constantly called him and asked if he could take 10-20 additional missionaries, mid-transfer, because the Church simply had no place to put them (and, the Church was not sending overflow missionaries to foreign countries). During that time, we sometimes had three companionships in one ward because there was simply nowhere to put them, and this was detrimental to the work because they were tripping over each other and there wasn't enough work for any of them then. 

I sincerely hope the missionaries assigned to your ward and the youth who reside in your ward don't pick up on how little you clearly think of them...

You misunderstand. I love them and they feel my love. This discussion here is among adults on a Mormon-themed message board.

I don't think little of them, I am saddened by the *conditions* they are brought up in, and those who thrive do so in spite of, not because of, these conditions. Most of this isn't their fault, and I recognize that. I just don't want the structure and program of a mission to exacerbate shortcomings they are already facing. 

[Rain]

48 minutes ago, rongo said:

You're in the South Pacific, right? I definitely think that this is a North America thing, and that outside of NA missionary work is of necessity more "old fashioned." I'm simply saying that I think it would be better to have the "old fashioned" work ethic and approach in North America, too.

 

 

The news stories we're discussing here put it at an increase of from 82 missions (tablets) to 162 (smartphones).

 

 

My parents returned from Warsaw in March. My mother was the mission secretary, and my father managed the mission finances (among many, many other things, like serving in the branch presidency, running the YSA program, etc.). They told me that they had heard that Poland was eventually going to become a device mission, but they sincerely hoped that it wouldn't be while they were there. 

I'm genuinely interested in your specific thoughts on this. What, specifically, do you think devices will add to what they are already doing in your area? In my experience, it makes them more helpless, like when they fail to sync with MLS and have no access to the ward list (I've printed them out a paper ward list when they've panicked over this). Or, when there are Siri glitches and they can't find places (reliance on voice-controlled directions has resulted in loss of spatial awareness and mental mapping abilities). I don't think it's an improvement over paper and pencil to have an electronic calendar. Spiritual thoughts are just Mormon Messages, and I've asked them to share actual thoughts with people instead of watching videos. 

It sounds like your missionaries benefit from "old school-ism" in your area. Why add a toy that doesn't really help their actual work?

 

 

The Brethren are careful about who they send foreign, especially given the effect of stress and adversity on this generation (cf. the comments from a Seventy I referred to in our area about shielding them from adversity. You don't hear things like that abroad). I'd like to see you work with some of ours for comparison. We just had a greenie go home from our ward in his second week in the field, due to anxiety. In the heart of "The Surge," the mission president also told us that the missionary department constantly called him and asked if he could take 10-20 additional missionaries, mid-transfer, because the Church simply had no place to put them (and, the Church was not sending overflow missionaries to foreign countries). During that time, we sometimes had three companionships in one ward because there was simply nowhere to put them, and this was detrimental to the work because they were tripping over each other and there wasn't enough work for any of them then. 

 

 

You misunderstand. I love them and they feel my love. This discussion here is among adults on a Mormon-themed message board.

I don't think little of them, I am saddened by the *conditions* they are brought up in, and those who thrive do so in spite of, not because of, these conditions. Most of this isn't their fault, and I recognize that. I just don't want the structure and program of a mission to exacerbate shortcomings they are already facing. 

I'm really curious how your mission and mine differ from other parts of the US (for those not aware, our missions are right next to each other in a group of 5 missions ). It seems there are always pilot programs here. Sometimes that is really cool. Other times I think it really wears down members and missionaries.

I don't know if we have the hang out at the church thing in our mission. We almost always have visitor center missionaries in our ward that spend a lot of their time there. 

When my husband was WML we actually loved the progress reports on the ipads - when they put them in ahead of time so he could pull them up. If they waited till just before meetings they often did have tech problems  so here they finally just did them on paper for awhile. 

The tripping over each other problem has been a very real problem here as well. I think that is one reason we cannot fairly assess about whether tracting should be done or not. The missionaries in my ward missionaries' area could easily tract every home every 1-2 weeks even with visitor center shifts. That makes it not effective and becomes a real problem for annoying people. That's where shifts at mormon.org can be more effective. 

I've wondered how it would change the work that missionaries do if they combined missions here. Even just the service they could do could be expanded. I've wondered how much differently the Phoenix mission works as the amount of members to non members is so much less and the amount of service opportunities is so much greater. Even the amount of active members can vary so much - a couple of weeks ago I was made aware of a ward that had 1 active man for every 45 active women in the Phoenix area where many refugees are resettled.

 

Edited October 31, 2017 by Rain

[rongo]

32 minutes ago, Rain said:

The tripping over each other problem has been a very real problem here as well. I think that is one reason we cannot fairly assess about whether tracting should be done or not. The missionaries in my ward missionaries' area could easily tract every home every 1-2 weeks even with visitor center shifts. That makes it not effective and becomes a real problem for annoying people. 

My father-in-law was a WML in a wealthy neighborhood in Sandy, UT. The ward was literally a block of houses, and every single house was a known quantity (active, inactive, non-member [not many at all] ). Tracting made zero sense there, of course, and the struggle was having anything for the missionaries to do. I think some of the reductions of missionaries could happen in the intermountain west, as well. 

[Danzo]

I am currently the ward mission leader in my area and I definitely see some of the problems  you describe (although it seems to be a bit worse over where you are).  A lot of the missionaries are good and some have problems.  One of the bigger things I see is the missionaries do not seem to know how to be on time ever.  It is gotten to the point that the missionaries joke about "mission time".  This makes it very difficult arranging splits because we are never able to know exactly when to meet with them.  Often I (or other ward missionaries) end up waiting a long time for them to  arrive.  I was looking at my texts from the missionaries for the last few months and I think they tried to get out of doing missionary correlation meeting about every single week (I didn't let them )  I think that this may be one of the effects of younger missionaries.   Another problem I see with them is that they seem to be a little too casual about inviting people to be baptized.  After a discussion I will often ask if it was wise to challenge them to baptism in two weeks when they aren't even married yet? The often say that they are really serious about the challenge, they just want them to think about it.    

A few months back there was a sister who accepted the challenge to be baptized by a specific date and she accepted. The missionaries let the date creep up on them without finishing the discussions.  They wanted to postpone the baptism, but she made them come over every night that week to finish the discussions so she could be baptized on the date she had committed to be baptized on.   It appeared from the actions of the missionaries that the investigator was more serious about baptism than the missionaries were.

Edited October 31, 2017 by Danzo

[rongo]

Our missionaries are pretty good, all things considered. I just think that the program and system doesn't help them, especially with respect to not trying to help them overcome and rise above the challenges of their generation. Instead, it (the program and system) seeks to prevent stress and cognitive dissonance from the collision between raising expectations (raising the bar) and the handicaps of their generation. Most of the recent changes and moves have been accommodations to these handicaps, rather than a challenge to lengthen their stride. 

The majority of missionaries have good intentions and good attitudes.

[Hamba Tuhan]

13 hours ago, rongo said:

The news stories we're discussing here put it at an increase of from 82 missions (tablets) to 162 (smartphones).

Thanks for that clarification! So apparently most missions in the world are functioning as your desired 'control group'. Do you honestly believe that when Church leaders would look at technology-free missions (currently 339 in number) and then look at those missions with technology, they see that the former are more successful (in reference both to the work of salvation and to the well-being of the missionaries) than the latter but then still choose to shift more missions from column A to column B? What could possibly be their motivation for doing this?

Quote

I'm genuinely interested in your specific thoughts on this. What, specifically, do you think devices will add to what they are already doing in your area?

Our ward list has to be updated pretty much every week. After just a few weeks, paper copies are obsolete. Having access to online tools just makes sense.

As I was leaving the shops late last night after work, I bumped into a former investigator from about two years ago. The Sisters who were attempting to teach her then had little success, in large part because they didn't speak her language. Two weeks ago, we got a new Elder who speaks her language, so I asked her if he and his companion could visit. She said yes and told me some available times. If I had had access on my mobile to the missionaries' planner, I could have set the appointment up for them right then. Instead we're still trying to sort this out.

Monday I contacted another former investigator, who also accepted an invitation for me and the Elders to visit tonight. I booked the appointment but then had that dread that always comes until I could get a hold of the missionaries and verify that they were indeed free Wednesday evening. Thankfully, they were, but the longer they serve in the ward, the less likely that scenario will be. I'm excited to be able to set appointments for the missionaries -- which is my primary responsibility as WML -- in real time.

Our missionaries already frequently integrate short video clips into their teaching, but it requires bringing a flash drive and hoping that the people being taught have an appropriate screen. (I don't actually own a TV, and often people still have older-style televisions.) Being able to use a device to smoothly integrate the video clip sounds so much smoother and easier.

One of the young men who stayed with his uncle in our ward to earn money for his mission served in a technology-enabled mission in America. They were trained to use their devices to bring the best possible fellowshipper into a discussion. On more than one occasion, I was working at my office computer when he came online and asked me to join a lesson in order to answer a question or concern. I was always happy to do this, and it seemed to be really helpful each time it happened. On another occasion, he involved me in an online lesson with someone not even in the US. Good stuff!

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The Brethren are careful about who they send foreign, especially given the effect of stress and adversity on this generation...

Yet we also have large numbers of local missionaries who serve here as well. If anything, our American missionaries are better prepared and more resilient.

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I'd like to see you work with some of ours for comparison.

Send them over, please! I'd be happy to work with them. We've had a few Elders come to our ward who were struggling. In four years, only one of them has gone home early. The rest have all thrived. Our previous mission president said he couldn't understand what we'd done to change Elder P------- so much. I told him it was simple: we just put him to work. I keep in contact with him through Facebook a fair bit, and he's still doing well. He was called as elders quorum president within weeks of his return, and so far their numbers have nearly doubled under his leadership. Two of his non-member friends have also been baptised. He said it was easy after what he'd learnt serving in our ward.

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The Church was not sending overflow missionaries to foreign countries...

And yet we got heaps of additional missionaries during the 'surge'. What do you mean exactly by 'overflow'?

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During that time, we sometimes had three companionships in one ward because there was simply nowhere to put them, and this was detrimental to the work because they were tripping over each other and there wasn't enough work for any of them then.

We had four companionships at one point, as I mentioned. I actually asked for the fourth one because our poor Elders were overwhelmed at that point. Does your ward not have many less-actives to work with? We have stacks, many of whom have come back owing to the efforts of our good missionaries. During the 'surge', our sacrament meeting attendance topped 200 people for the first time ever, and we had to start opening the back of the chapel. Now that we're back to only two sets of missionaries, our attendance has declined again.

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You misunderstand. I love them and they feel my love. This discussion here is among adults on a Mormon-themed message board.

I quickly discovered when I was teaching that students always know what one says about them in the staff room. It just comes through, I've found.

Edited November 1, 2017 by Hamba Tuhan

[Rain]

10 hours ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

Thanks for that clarification! So apparently most missions in the world are functioning as your desired 'control group'. Do you honestly believe that when Church leaders would look at technology-free missions (currently 339 in number) and then look at those missions with technology, they see that the former are more successful (in reference both to the work of salvation and to the well-being of the missionaries) than the latter but then still choose to shift more missions from column A to column B? What could possibly be their motivation for doing this?

Our ward list has to be updated pretty much every week. After just a few weeks, paper copies are obsolete. Having access to online tools just makes sense.

As I was leaving the shops late last night after work, I bumped into a former investigator from about two years ago. The Sisters who were attempting to teach her then had little success, in large part because they didn't speak her language. Two weeks ago, we got a new Elder who speaks her language, so I asked her if he and his companion could visit. She said yes and told me some available times. If I had had access on my mobile to the missionaries' planner, I could have set the appointment up for them right then. Instead we're still trying to sort this out.

Monday I contacted another former investigator, who also accepted an invitation for me and the Elders to visit tonight. I booked the appointment but then had that dread that always comes until I could get a hold of the missionaries and verify that they were indeed free Wednesday evening. Thankfully, they were, but the longer they serve in the ward, the less likely that scenario will be. I'm excited to be able to set appointments for the missionaries in real t -- which is my primary responsibility as WML.

Our missionaries already frequently integrate short video clips into their teaching, but it requires bringing a flash drive and hoping that the people being taught have an appropriate screen. (I don't actually own a TV, and often people still have older-style televisions.) Being able to use a device to smoothly integrate the video clip sounds so much smoother and easier.

One of the young men who stayed with his uncle in our ward to earn money for his mission served in a technology-enabled mission in America. They were trained to use their devices to bring the best possible fellowshipper into a discussion. On more than one occasion, I was working at my office computer when they came online and asked me to join a lesson in order to answer a question or concern. I was always happy to do this, and it seemed to be really helpful each time it happened. On another occasion, he involved me in an online lesson with someone not even in the US. Good stuff!

 

This reminds me of my son's best friend who was basically called to Turkey on his mission and then was moved to Germany because of the problems in Turkey. While in Germany he taught discussions partly in Arabic using his Lebenese born and raised dad to translate through Skype. When he went back to Turkey, his dad continued on with other investigators and missionaries. He was a convert later in life and loved being able to, in some ways, be on a mission.

Edited November 1, 2017 by Rain

[sjdawg]

My nephew is in one of the missions currently testing using facebook, snapchat, and instragram to try and do missionary work.  From what I have seen I don't believe it will be overly successful.  Some of the teaching attempts and live broadcasts I have seen on facebook are pretty cringe-worthy.  

[Avatar4321]

16 hours ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

I'm with you, mate. 

So what do you think we should do for this harvest?

[Hamba Tuhan]

5 hours ago, Rain said:

While in Germany he taught discussions partly in Arabic using his Lebenese born and raised dad to translate. When he went back to Turkey, his dad continued on with other investigators and missionaries.

Yeah, it's a fantastic opportunity for everyone involved. When I've been asked to join lessons, it's always been because of something that was very personal, along the lines of, 'I know you told me before how you struggled with X but found an answer that's brought you peace. Could you please share that with our investigator who's having a similar struggle?'

More than once as a missionary I thought, 'I so wish So-and-So were here to bear witness to this principle right now...' And with technology, now that person can be!

[Hamba Tuhan]

5 hours ago, Avatar4321 said:

So what do you think we should do for this harvest?

I spent six years as the Young Men president in my ward (and then served as the bishopric counsellor over Young Men under two successive bishops). As I've shared before on this board, when I was first called, we had three young men who were at all active at church, and only one of them regularly attended Mutual. We had no organised Aaronic Priesthood quorums and no quorum leadership.

Within weeks of being called, I travelled 300 km to attend a regional training meeting for Young Men presidencies, bishoprics, and stake presidencies, provided by a member of the Young Men general presidency. The first thing he told us was that we needed to stop pretending to be exceptions to the rules. He then went on to give clear guidance, such as, 'One boy is a quorum, and unless the Spirit constrains you, he's called and set apart as the quorum president'. 'Bishops must take seriously their callings as presidents of the priest quorums; they should preside over presidency meetings, attend all quorum meetings, sit in council with the assistants, attend all activities, etc.' 'Quorum advisers are coaches, not leaders. Train them to get out of the way of the key-holders in the quorums they advise'. Etc. He then promised us that if we would follow the handbooks and the training he'd given us, we would see success.

I went home and asked to chat with my then bishop. I laid out from my detailed notes everything we needed to do differently. He resisted. We politely disagreed. I kept at it. For months. Over time, he started to capitulate. Eventually we had a deacons quorum president with no other active deacons and a teachers quorum presidency consisting of two boys. We started to get all three of them regularly to Mutual. We also let them understand their priesthood keys. From that point forward, no one in the ward passed the sacrament unless asked by the deacons quorum president or a member of the Aaronic Priesthood presidency (the bishopric). Ditto for preparing the sacrament. And on we went.

Eighteen months after I'd been called, our bishop moved away, and we got a new one. I was the first ward member her interviewed after he'd been ordained as bishop. He said, 'Hamba, I trust you. Let's do everything the handbooks say and everything Bro Burgess said in his training'. Phew! No more having to push and prod.

To cut a long story short, within a couple of years, we were averaging nearly 50 boys at Mutual each week, many of them non-members. Our trained quorum presidencies went to the rescue and started to bring boys back. I remember counting one Sunday, and fully one-quarter of the people in sacrament meeting 12 and older were young men. I picked them up, sometimes in two loads. Some of them came by bus. Some of them got their inactive families to drop them off. But they came. Soon we could hardly fit all our active priests into Bishop's office. Things were good.

One evening, the bishop of the ward that we share our building with caught me in the car park and asked, 'What are you doing in your ward? Will you come train my Young Men presidency in your secrets?'

I knew this Bishop and his ways. I knew what kind of men he'd called to serve in the Young Men presidency of his ward. I said to him, 'Bishop, we have no secrets. All we do is what is in the handbooks and what we've been trained to do'. As I'd predicted, he shook his head and walked away, frustrated that I wouldn't tell him some secret but easy shortcut.

That ward still has so few active Young Men that they keep begging the stake to let them just attend our ward's activities (something Bro Burgess expressly forbade).

So I have a similar answer. What have the prophets asked us to do? Have you read/watched all the training materials on lds.org? What has your area president told you to do in your priesthood leadership training meetings? Do we have faith? Do we really want the church to grow?

Or are we cynical or critical? Do we murmur and complain? Do we see what the prophets are seeing, even if only with the eye of faith? Do we think the only way to do things is the way we're familiar with?

I think those are good places to start.

Edited November 1, 2017 by Hamba Tuhan

[Calm]

18 hours ago, rongo said:

My father-in-law was a WML in a wealthy neighborhood in Sandy, UT. The ward was literally a block of houses, and every single house was a known quantity (active, inactive, non-member [not many at all] ). Tracting made zero sense there, of course, and the struggle was having anything for the missionaries to do. I think some of the reductions of missionaries could happen in the intermountain west, as well. 

My son went to Logan and .Ogden on his mission and hated the four hours they were required to tract each week by one of their MPs who believed in old school, wouldn't let them use email even.  It was a total waste of the missionaries' time which was otherwise appointment after appointment, usually working for reactivation,, but also investigators...most anyone who moved into the area eventually was calling the missionaries to check out the Church if they hadn't been members.  He baptized a number of individuals, got mor reactivated and went to a couple of temple marriages and family sealings post mission since we had moved down to Utah a month after he got home.

[Rain]

4 hours ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

Yeah, it's a fantastic opportunity for everyone involved. When I've been asked to join lessons, it's always been because of something that was very personal, along the lines of, 'I know you told me before how you struggled with X but found an answer that's brought you peace. Could you please share that with our investigator who's having a similar struggle?'

More than once as a missionary I thought, 'I so wish So-and-So were here to bear witness to this principle right now...' And with technology, now that person can be!

I neglected to say those experiences I talked about were done through Skype. I've gone back and edited that now.