Scott Lloyd Posted October 7, 2017 Posted October 7, 2017 2 minutes ago, jkwilliams said: I have no reason to disbelieve what my friend told me at the time, but that's neither here nor there. My point was that showing compassion and forgiveness is not the same as condoning. If that’s true then you should see nothing wrong with disapproving of the act even as you show your compassion and forgiveness.
jkwilliams Posted October 7, 2017 Posted October 7, 2017 Just now, Scott Lloyd said: If that’s true then you should see nothing wrong with disapproving of the act even as you show your compassion and forgiveness. I already said I disapproved of the act. But I refuse to condemn people for doing it. There is a difference. 1
Popular Post Calm Posted October 7, 2017 Popular Post Posted October 7, 2017 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said: It’s not a matter of holding him to a lower standard. It’s a matter of not knowing whether you or I are in sufficient possession of the facts to render a proper judgment. So how can that be different with total strangers? How can you know enough facts in their case to render a proper judgment? Edited October 7, 2017 by Calm 5
JulieM Posted October 7, 2017 Posted October 7, 2017 (edited) 18 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said: It’s not a matter of holding him to a lower standard. It’s a matter of not knowing whether you or I are in sufficient possession of the facts to render a proper judgment. Why is it then that you call it "unrighteousness judgement" when it's about what Joseph did, but not "unrighteousness judgement" when you judge others? It comes across as holding him to a different standard. Edited October 7, 2017 by JulieM 3
Scott Lloyd Posted October 8, 2017 Posted October 8, 2017 32 minutes ago, Calm said: So how can that be different with total strangers? How can you know enough facts in their case to render a proper judgment? Sorry I can’t continue this. Wife and son in car accident.
jkwilliams Posted October 8, 2017 Posted October 8, 2017 6 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said: Sorry I can’t continue this. Wife and son in car accident. I hope everyone is OK.
Bobbieaware Posted October 8, 2017 Posted October 8, 2017 30 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said: Sorry I can’t continue this. Wife and son in car accident. Praying all is well.
Jeanne Posted October 8, 2017 Posted October 8, 2017 Hey...my thoughts are with you and family. Hope all will be well.
Scott Lloyd Posted October 8, 2017 Posted October 8, 2017 2 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said: Sorry I can’t continue this. Wife and son in car accident. 2 hours ago, jkwilliams said: I hope everyone is OK. 2 hours ago, Jeanne said: Hey...my thoughts are with you and family. Hope all will be well. After ER treatment, they’re home now. Thanks, everyone, for the prayers and expressions of concern. 2
Calm Posted October 8, 2017 Posted October 8, 2017 3 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said: Sorry I can’t continue this. Wife and son in car accident. 20 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said: After ER treatment, they’re home now. Thanks, everyone, for the prayers and expressions of concern. Thank goodness.
Tacenda Posted October 8, 2017 Posted October 8, 2017 20 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said: After ER treatment, they’re home now. Thanks, everyone, for the prayers and expressions of concern. Glad they're home, how scary.
Gray Posted October 8, 2017 Posted October 8, 2017 34 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said: After ER treatment, they’re home now. Thanks, everyone, for the prayers and expressions of concern. Glad they're home, hope they'll be okay! My best to your family and to you.
Scott Lloyd Posted October 8, 2017 Posted October 8, 2017 4 hours ago, Bobbieaware said: Praying all is well. Thanks to you too, Bobbieaware. Didn’t mean to leave you out.
Popular Post Scott Lloyd Posted October 8, 2017 Popular Post Posted October 8, 2017 Thanks again, everyone. Van is totaled, but loved ones are intact. There is much to be thankful for. 11
Bobbieaware Posted October 8, 2017 Posted October 8, 2017 6 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said: Thanks to you too, Bobbieaware. Didn’t mean to leave you out. I knew that. Glad things are OK.
Button Gwinnett Posted October 8, 2017 Posted October 8, 2017 22 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said: Let’s go back to the printing press analogy. What if a Church member were printing anti-Mormon literature and distributing it internationally. Would you find it “creepy” if the person were to face Church discipline for his behavior? I don’t get that you seem somehow locked into the mindset that stuff posted on social media is private communication. It is anything but. Yes at some point there is a tipping point where behavior warrants action, but aren't we talking about where that line is? Once someone is clearly promoting apostasy and pubcally pushing an agenda to urge others to do likewise yeah ok. But in the situations I've mentioned I am talking about members expressing doubts, asking questions but having their online activity monitored by their wards. This to me is crossing the line and where it makes the church appear like a paranoid authoritarian organization afraid of its own history.
Bobbieaware Posted October 8, 2017 Posted October 8, 2017 (edited) I wonder if there are any 'middle-way' Gods. "Yeah, I'll atone for their sins alright, but for only half of them. 😏 Edited October 8, 2017 by Bobbieaware
Pete Ahlstrom Posted October 8, 2017 Posted October 8, 2017 1 minute ago, Bobbieaware said: I wonder if there are any 'middle-way Gods. "Yeah, I'll atone for their sins alright, but for only half of them. 😏 Maybe there are "gods" that don't atone at all because it is unnecessary? Maybe these "gods" realized that they had the power all along to forgive without the sacrifice?
Pete Ahlstrom Posted October 8, 2017 Posted October 8, 2017 33 minutes ago, Button Gwinnett said: Yes at some point there is a tipping point where behavior warrants action, but aren't we talking about where that line is? Once someone is clearly promoting apostasy and pubcally pushing an agenda to urge others to do likewise yeah ok. But in the situations I've mentioned I am talking about members expressing doubts, asking questions but having their online activity monitored by their wards. This to me is crossing the line and where it makes the church appear like a paranoid authoritarian organization afraid of its own history. Yes, the truth should set it free and not have to be covered up or shouted down.
Bobbieaware Posted October 8, 2017 Posted October 8, 2017 (edited) 17 hours ago, Pete Ahlstrom said: Maybe there are "gods" that don't atone at all because it is unnecessary? Maybe these "gods" realized that they had the power all along to forgive without the sacrifice? Nope. The Book of Mormon makes *** exquisitely clear that there is no free agency, no forgiveness and remission of sins, and no learning from mistakes without an atoning sacrifice made by a sinless infinite and eternal Goo. But in case you don't already know, what you describe is what Muslims believe. Edited October 9, 2017 by Bobbieaware
Jeanne Posted October 8, 2017 Posted October 8, 2017 Scott..just got the message just now..I have thought of you and yours all day at work..Glad that family is okay..!! 1
CV75 Posted October 9, 2017 Posted October 9, 2017 19 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said: Thanks again, everyone. Van is totaled, but loved ones are intact. There is much to be thankful for. I just read about the accident and that your family was spared. I'm glad you could get along without my prayers but I'll offer one retroactively anyway! 2
The Nehor Posted October 9, 2017 Posted October 9, 2017 8 hours ago, Button Gwinnett said: Yes at some point there is a tipping point where behavior warrants action, but aren't we talking about where that line is? Once someone is clearly promoting apostasy and pubcally pushing an agenda to urge others to do likewise yeah ok. But in the situations I've mentioned I am talking about members expressing doubts, asking questions but having their online activity monitored by their wards. This to me is crossing the line and where it makes the church appear like a paranoid authoritarian organization afraid of its own history. Why do you hate the new cyber-Danites. Cyborgs who monitor cyber activity for heresy. They play by their own rules and alway get their apostate. Coming this fall. 2
Pete Ahlstrom Posted October 9, 2017 Posted October 9, 2017 (edited) 10 hours ago, Bobbieaware said: Nope. The Book of Mormon makes t t exquisitely clear that there is no free agency, no forgiveness and remission of sins, and no learning from mistakes without an atoning sacrifice made by a sinless infinite and eternal Goo. But in case you don't already know, what you describe is what Muslims believe. and most of the rest of the world, but I was just adding to the list you started. Edited October 9, 2017 by Pete Ahlstrom
Gray Posted October 9, 2017 Posted October 9, 2017 22 hours ago, Bobbieaware said: Nope. The Book of Mormon makes *** exquisitely clear that there is no free agency, no forgiveness and remission of sins, and no learning from mistakes without an atoning sacrifice made by a sinless infinite and eternal Goo. But in case you don't already know, what you describe is what Muslims believe. Borrowing from Calvin, by way of St. Anselm
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