Regional Priesthood Leadership Conference

[The Nehor]

2 minutes ago, hope_for_things said:

The theory falls apart when you look at everything as a whole.  Also, it promotes an idea that God uses supernatural means in a physical world which I really don't like theologically.  All the sudden, rocks do have special powers, Hiram Page's seer stone was evil, not Hiram, but the stone itself, while Joseph's was a divine stone.  It perpetuates this idea that folk magic wasn't just a remnant of 19th century thinking, but that it was objectively real.  

Seer stones, diving rods, handkerchiefs, Satan surfing on the waters, Cain running through the forest, it just seems to perpetuate all these myths about the supernatural which makes the religion increasingly difficult to take seriously in a modern age.  

I like a strong dose of weirdness in my religion.

[provoman]

50 minutes ago, bsjkki said:

I found these two question and answers interesting. Rongo--were you not told not to dispense notes from the meeting on the internet. Before my last Stake Conference, we were told not take notes and then distribute them. 

"8) What can we do about the horrific activity rate among returned missionaries?

Elder 2: Let me correct your statistics. A lot of statistics are just thrown around on the internet, and they become gospel truth simply by virtue of being thrown around on the internet. Our statistics (and we follow this very carefully, as you might imagine) are that 80% of RMs are active in the Church at 2 years after the return.

9) My daughter is dating a boy who told her he has a porn problem. This really put a damper on our enthusiasm for her to be dating this boy. What can we do about worrying about whom our children will marry?

Elder 2: We throw around the word addict a lot in referring to people with porn problems. We have to distinguish between a true addict, and someone who has incidents or episodes (this has to do with frequency and intensity --- i.e., affecting all areas of life)."

Distinguish Addict v incidents/episodes, that is good counsel from Leadership.

[hope_for_things]

1 hour ago, stemelbow said:

How can we take their comments seriously after this?  The Church is not in any way anti-gay, but it is opposed to gay marriage?  Isn't that self-contradicting? 

Thinking is your problem, just listen, you'll understand the marching orders, don't think about them. 

[hope_for_things]

5 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

I like a strong dose of weirdness in my religion.

No shortage of weirdness in Mormonism, but you might want to check out Scientology, may be an even better fit.  

[stemelbow]

20 minutes ago, bluebell said:

In the notes it seems pretty clear that he's talking about the first kind of thing, because he specifically says "priesthood keys are the right to receive keys for other people and their stewardships in a supervisory capacity."

If so, I really question the notion of only receiving revelation for those who are under our stewardship, or keys need to be involved.  Just because as it turns out, such revelation or inspiration happens in all sorts of ways with all sorts of non-priesthood holding people. 

[Nevo]

5 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

I like a strong dose of weirdness in my religion.

"[E]very living and healthy religion has a marked idiosyncrasy."  — George Santayana

[stemelbow]

8 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

I like a strong dose of weirdness in my religion.

Then you've signed up for the wrong one.  You need to reconsider scientology. 

[bluebell]

14 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

You have the right to counsel her in her calling but not to declare the will of the Lord in regards to it in an authoritative sense.

You should of course teach her and advise her and seek the spirit with which to counsel her and others well.

But the bishop has the right to declare the will of the Lord for her in her calling, and the Elder’s quorum president has the right to declare the will of the Lord for the teachers in Elders quorum meetings, etc?

[HappyJackWagon]

1 hour ago, rongo said:

We were told that the content and agenda for these worldwide meetings are the same, so inoculating on this is apparently a point of emphasis. The sad thing is that this was discussed at length at the turn of the century (Elder Roberts's treatment of the translation process was in the manual, and it was hotly discussed). Then, somehow, generations grew up without any knowledge of the seer stones and the Church is now trying to prevent Glaubensverlust from troubled members hearing about it for the first time.

Dang, dude. Couldn't you have just said "loss of faith". Would have saved me 30 seconds looking it up   

 

[The Nehor]

3 minutes ago, stemelbow said:

Then you've signed up for the wrong one.  You need to reconsider scientology. 

I favor religions over pyramid schemes. Just a personal preference.

[HappyJackWagon]

11 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

I like a strong dose of weirdness in my religion.

Then you must be in heaven. Yay for you  

[The Nehor]

2 minutes ago, bluebell said:

But the bishop has the right to declare the will of the Lord for her in her calling, and the Elder’s quorum president has the right to declare the will of the Lord for the teachers in Elders quorum meetings, etc?

Yes, if moved upon by the Spirit to do so.

[The Nehor]

1 minute ago, HappyJackWagon said:

Then you must be in heaven. Yay for you  

Not yet. I have to wait for the spaceship hiding behind the comet to get closeer before I drink the Kool-Aid.

[ksfisher]

27 minutes ago, bluebell said:

In the notes it seems pretty clear that he's talking about the first kind of thing, because he specifically says "priesthood keys are the right to receive keys for other people and their stewardships in a supervisory capacity."

Priesthood keys are the right to receive revelation.  However, when you have been called and set apart by one who holds priesthood keys that right to receive revelation for your stewardship has been delegated to you. 

[HappyJackWagon]

3 minutes ago, bluebell said:

But the bishop has the right to declare the will of the Lord for her in her calling, and the Elder’s quorum president has the right to declare the will of the Lord for the teachers in Elders quorum meetings, etc?

You're tugging on an important thread.

This seems like a doubling down on hierarchical authority yet is fully consistent with teachings about priesthood keys and church administration. So the spirit can only direct you in your calling so long as it agrees with what your leader believes. Otherwise the leader's opinion or spiritual divination reigns supreme.

[The Nehor]

1 minute ago, ksfisher said:

Priesthood keys are the right to receive revelation.  However, when you have been called and set apart by one who holds priesthood keys that right to receive revelation for your stewardship has been delegated to you. 

Yes, everyone is entitled to revelation to fulfill their callings. Only some can give authoritative revelation for others.

There is more to keys then getting revelation but probably do not to go down that discussion.

[stemelbow]

7 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

I favor religions over pyramid schemes. Just a personal preference.

Then you signed up for the wrong religion again...

 

Just playing.

[Nevo]

2 hours ago, rongo said:

It really was a good conference. I wish these things happened more often.

Thanks for this, rongo. Lots of great counsel there.

I particularly appreciated this line: "Have ward council more frequently, but only 20 minutes or so at a time." Our ward has them weekly and they normally run 90 minutes. Since I take the minutes, I'd love to see our leaders get some of this training.   

[jkwilliams]

21 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

I like a strong dose of weirdness in my religion.

Sometimes I think Correlation was designed to take the weirdness out of the church.

[rongo]

1 hour ago, bsjkki said:

I found these two question and answers interesting. Rongo--were you not told not to dispense notes from the meeting on the internet? Before my last Stake Conference, we were told not take notes and then distribute them. 

I have heard that in the past, but nothing was said about that this time. I love hearing what was said to others --- even allowing for the filtering and interpreting of the source. I think most people know that these things aren't verbatim court reports. To attempt to keep any note-sharing or discussion of what is shared is not only a fool's errand --- it look paranoid.

I didn't identify people so that they hopefully don't get bandied about the internet. This is just notes I took, which I found interesting and which I felt are interesting and useful for others. 

----

As far as comments about stewardship and keys: As has been said, my take is that people have the right to revelation within their stewardship (e.g., bluebell as YW president over her presidency and YW), but as the bishop holds keys over the ward, he has the *right* (that was the word used) to receive revelation for the organizations he presides over "mother ship" style --- if needed. Usually, key-holders don't micro-manage --- that's what the presidents are for, to delegate that --- but the keys give him the right to direct if needed. 

Orson Scott Card's definition for "agency" in Saintspeak: The Mormon Dictionary is: "Within your stewardship, the complete freedom to do exactly as you are told."  

[bluebell]

5 minutes ago, Nevo said:

Thanks for this, rongo. Lots of great counsel there.

I particularly appreciated this line: "Have ward council more frequently, but only 20 minutes or so at a time." Our ward has them weekly and they normally run 90 minutes. Since I take the minutes, I'd love to see our leaders get some of this training.   

We have ward council every other week and the are usually around 75 minutes long, most of it taken up by the missionaries. I don’t know how it would be possible to keep it to 20 minutes!

[ALarson]

16 minutes ago, bluebell said:

We have ward council every other week and the are usually around 75 minutes long, most of it taken up by the missionaries. I don’t know how it would be possible to keep it to 20 minutes!

We still only hold ward council on the first Sunday of the month.  They are about 90 minutes long.  We have asked the members if they'd prefer meeting more often (and hopefully less time each meeting) and unanimously they voted to keep it to once a month rather than having to come to more meetings on more Sundays.  Most believed even if we did meet more often, the meetings would still last 90 minutes when everyone gets talking and giving input on any given topic.  

So for now, we are sticking with once a month (for ward council).

Edited September 20, 2017 by ALarson

[rongo]

12 minutes ago, bluebell said:

We have ward council every other week and the are usually around 75 minutes long, most of it taken up by the missionaries. I don’t know how it would be possible to keep it to 20 minutes!

We have it twice a month (usually, 2nd and 4th Sundays), about an hour apiece. It's hard not to have it be taken over by the missionaries, but that is a primary focus for ward council. 

I generally only have PEC as needed, and have for years (dating back to another ward). Very little is for "men only," and when that happens, you can have a meeting then. 

 

[Duncan]

34 minutes ago, jkwilliams said:

Sometimes I think Correlation was designed to take the weirdness out of the church.

you should move here, it gets put right back in

[Duncan]

30 minutes ago, bluebell said:

We have ward council every other week and the are usually around 75 minutes long, most of it taken up by the missionaries. I don’t know how it would be possible to keep it to 20 minutes!

it's funny, we hardly have ward council. We have "huddles" maybe once a month? we stand around for yeah 10-20 minutes and discuss needs and stuff but the High Priest Group leader always complains about the length but he's the worst offender!! he keep on butting in and saying his two cents, like if you want a shorter meeting  then dummy up!